Tsunade Versus Gokage Analysis

TRE MERCER · Nov 17, 2016

LMAO how did i miss this.

RedRobin · Nov 17, 2016

Kastsuyu absorbs any hit Ay gives her. Stop with this ridiculousness of knocking her around.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

RedRobin said:
Kastsuyu absorbs any hit Ay gives her. Stop with this ridiculousness of knocking her around.

Your input is irrelevant until you address my post buddy. You can only piggy back off Tazilla for so long.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

Tazzilla88 said:
.The idea that it is superspeed wasn't what I was focusing on. Simply that we'd be talking about a jump still. A jump with a vitalized body or not its still a jump and one slows down as they go up. Otherwise, it'd be flying. The fact that Ay can jump up at high speeds, doesn't mean that he is going at the same speed he started at. Which was my point about the databook and elevation. I'm not arguing that Ay can't jump up, I'm arguing that he loses speed as he goes up as he essentially only gets to thrust himself upwards once and gravity is a thing.

Yeah, that much is obvious, but that doesn't change anything I said. He'd start to slow down before he reaches his target if he doesn't use enough force to reach the top of Katsuyu, but as I've already shown he can jump higher than that and not lose any speed until he reaches near the peak of his jump.

And no, that is exactly what that panel shows. Massive speed loss doesn't occur until you come close to the apex of your jump. Ay can jump higher than Katsuyu stands in v1 let alone V2 which is far faster than V1. Whatever speed Ay loses while going up isn't enough to let Tsunade go from being unable to perceive or physically react, to being able to smack him away.

Well for starters, Gai and Lee still have more strength than the average shinobi even in base because of the extremes they go to in training. So while Lee pulled a tree root out of the ground, PTS Sakura or Neji wouldn't have been able to do the same thing. Also a Tree root would be compared to singular katsuyu mini.

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Also Ay knocking down Hachibi is dishonest as Hachibi was also being pulled down by numerous shinobi

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And even after Ay chopped Hachibi's head never made contact with the water. Which tells us the Hachibi wasn't knocked down.

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Given that 3rd raikage started his sealing jutsu directly after said strike, we see the Hachibi is still elevated.

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And even if that weren't the case, pushing down the hachibi's head isn't the same thing as moving the total mass of the hachibi, much less making the hachibi fly back. Nothing says Ay has that kind of strength. Yes, the Narutoverse may be stronger than normal people but even in that verse Tsunade maneuvering Bunta's Tanto is impressive. Also can you link me to PTS Naruto knocking around a giant snake. I seem to remember in in the forest of death he simply overstuffed the snake.

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And against Orochimaru's snake during the Sannin showdown the snake smacked him around.

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In fact Gamabunta complained about the strength it took to hold down the Kyuubi, and how difficult it was to swing his sharp tanto thro Shukaku's arm. The idea that Ay is smacking around a Bijuu sized creature isn't supported.

Who cares if Sakura and Neji can't do the same thing? We are talking about Ay, and Ay's physical strength eclipses that of PTS Lee. The difference is incomparable. The root and Katsuyu may be the same size but again, Ay is far stronger than Lee with just his physical strength let alone his speed combined with that. Then we have the fact that it'd take more effort to dig into the ground and rip a root from the earth than to knock away something of similar size since the root is actually embedded into the ground.

-Hachibi wasn't knocked down completely, but his chop moved the Hachibi let alone a full speed charge from Ay. He doesn't need to knock Katsuyu a great distance to knock Tsunade off of it.

And the rest of your examples don't make sense.

-No one said he needed to knock Katsuyu around like a rag doll.
-Tsunade maneuvering Bunta's tanto is a completely different feat than Ay knocking Katsuyu around.
-Gamabunta holding down Kurama obviously is a completely different action from striking or tackling and knocking it back. No reason to mention that. Then we have the fact that Kurama before being divided by Minato dwarfs any regular Bijuu including Katsuyu.

-http://mangalife.org/read-online/Naruto-chapter-48-page-16.html

That is KN0 Naruto in the FoD arc smacking back Orochimaru's giant snake. So there's no way you are going to be able to argue that Ay isn't going to be able to knock Katsuyu back far and hard enough to cause Tsunade to stumble.

-http://mangalife.org/read-online/Naruto-chapter-48-page-19.html

And that's him stopping it's charge with his physical strength.

-http://mangalife.org/read-online/Naruto-chapter-375-page-14.html

That's Jiraiya knocking a giant ox several dozen meters away. Ay's strength feats when combined with his speed surpass that of Sage Jiraiya's and it's not even close.

And your Shukaku point is moot. It being hard to slice through him has nothing to do with knocking him away. That's the durability of Shukaku's body.

-PTS Sasuke was knocking around a giant boar. [

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Obviously none of these things are as large as Katsuyu, but Ay is also far far far stronger than anyone I mentioned here except Jiraiya, who he is simply stronger than. Ay clearly isn't going to be knocking and throwing Katsuyu around like a rag doll, but arguing that he won't be able to hit her hard enough to make her or Tsunade stumble is nonsense.

Then we have Naruto and B being able to upper cut the Mazo and knock it on it's ass.

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B in Bijuu Mode is stronger than Ay or Naruto, but Ay is easily stronger than Naruto alone. Gedo Mazo is far larger than any Bijuu. All Ay needs to do is make Katsuyu stumble a bit. I can probably find more if I keep on digging such as Naruto pushing Killer B's Bijuu Dama (not as strong as Ay) or Naruto's partial transformation sending Bijuu Dama hundreds of meters away (let alone Ay moving Katsuyu a few inches at worst), but it's pretty obvious that you're better off arguing that physical attacks will pass through Katsuyu then arguing that Ay can't make her budge an inch.

Well the bold doesn't make sense because of physics. It is surface area that dictates if something is penetrative or not. Take the weapon Sai for instance.

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Now the tips of sai are blunted, however they still penetrative because of the the relatively small surface area of the points, in addition to the exertion of force on the weapon.

One could easily compare Ay's blunted fist to the blunted tips of sai and it would still penetrate.

Then Ay tackles it instead of punching it. All he needs to do is knock Tsunade off.

Yeah he did.

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And even still water is still far more conductive. Than a human body or a slugs.

That doesn't show him touching it. The anime shows his hand near it channeling his Raiton chakra through the water. If his hand was touching the water it'd be getting pushed along with the stream as it's a Water Dragon and Ay's hand wouldn't simply take the force and remain still.

It's far more conductive, but it's not like the electricity won't reach her.

It would last quite a long time as Tsunade only needs enough chakra to 'heal' one person, as opposed to the village she healed during the invasion arc, or counteracting the God Tree's absorption.

But she has to spread it across the entire area of her liquified sluq, so it's not the same as her using chakra to heal one person. And in the end she's still using more energy than Ay so no matter how long it takes she'll only end up exhausting herself before Ay exhausts himself.

Tazzilla88 · Nov 17, 2016

KidGamer65 said:
Yeah, that much is obvious, but that doesn't change anything I said. He'd start to slow down before he reaches his target if he doesn't use enough force to reach the top of Katsuyu, but as I've already shown he can jump higher than that and not lose any speed until he reaches near the peak of his jump.

And no, that is exactly what that panel shows. Massive speed loss doesn't occur until you come close to the apex of your jump. Ay can jump higher than Katsuyu stands in v1 let alone V2 which is far faster than V1. Whatever speed Ay loses while going up isn't enough to let Tsunade go from being unable to perceive or physically react, to being able to smack him away.

Who cares if Sakura and Neji can't do the same thing? We are talking about Ay, and Ay's physical strength eclipses that of PTS Lee. The difference is incomparable. The root and Katsuyu may be the same size but again, Ay is far stronger than Lee with just his physical strength let alone his speed combined with that. Then we have the fact that it'd take more effort to dig into the ground and rip a root from the earth than to knock away something of similar size since the root is actually embedded into the ground.

-Hachibi wasn't knocked down completely, but his chop moved the Hachibi let alone a full speed charge from Ay. He doesn't need to knock Katsuyu a great distance to knock Tsunade off of it.

And the rest of your examples don't make sense.

-No one said he needed to knock Katsuyu around like a rag doll.
-Tsunade maneuvering Bunta's tanto is a completely different feat than Ay knocking Katsuyu around.
-Gamabunta holding down Kurama obviously is a completely different action from striking or tackling and knocking it back. No reason to mention that. Then we have the fact that Kurama before being divided by Minato dwarfs any regular Bijuu including Katsuyu.

-http://mangalife.org/read-online/Naruto-chapter-48-page-16.html

That is KN0 Naruto in the FoD arc smacking back Orochimaru's giant snake. So there's no way you are going to be able to argue that Ay isn't going to be able to knock Katsuyu back far and hard enough to cause Tsunade to stumble.

-http://mangalife.org/read-online/Naruto-chapter-48-page-19.html

And that's him stopping it's charge with his physical strength.

-http://mangalife.org/read-online/Naruto-chapter-375-page-14.html

That's Jiraiya knocking a giant ox several dozen meters away. Ay's strength feats when combined with his speed surpass that of Sage Jiraiya's and it's not even close.

And your Shukaku point is moot. It being hard to slice through him has nothing to do with knocking him away. That's the durability of Shukaku's body.

-PTS Sasuke was knocking around a giant boar. [
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Obviously none of these things are as large as Katsuyu, but Ay is also far far far stronger than anyone I mentioned here except Jiraiya, who he is simply stronger than. Ay clearly isn't going to be knocking and throwing Katsuyu around like a rag doll, but arguing that he won't be able to hit her hard enough to make her or Tsunade stumble is nonsense.

Then we have Naruto and B being able to upper cut the Mazo and knock it on it's ass.

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B in Bijuu Mode is stronger than Ay or Naruto, but Ay is easily stronger than Naruto alone. Gedo Mazo is far larger than any Bijuu. All Ay needs to do is make Katsuyu stumble a bit. I can probably find more if I keep on digging such as Naruto pushing Killer B's Bijuu Dama (not as strong as Ay) or Naruto's partial transformation sending Bijuu Dama hundreds of meters away (let alone Ay moving Katsuyu a few inches at worst), but it's pretty obvious that you're better off arguing that physical attacks will pass through Katsuyu then arguing that Ay can't make her budge an inch.

Then Ay tackles it instead of punching it. All he needs to do is knock Tsunade off.

That doesn't show him touching it. The anime shows his hand near it channeling his Raiton chakra through the water. If his hand was touching the water it'd be getting pushed along with the stream as it's a Water Dragon and Ay's hand wouldn't simply take the force and remain still.

It's far more conductive, but it's not like the electricity won't reach her.

But she has to spread it across the entire area of her liquified sluq, so it's not the same as her using chakra to heal one person. And in the end she's still using more energy than Ay so no matter how long it takes she'll only end up exhausting herself before Ay exhausts himself.

Look the entire strength argument is a moot point. (which is why I've been arguing towards the fact that Ay's fist would simply penetrate) I think your argument is severely flawed. But also enough time has been wasted.

Capturing her is impossible already! Because she is a boneless mollusk, she has a fantastical ability to transform at will, that of deciding to divide her whole body or to reunite it. All physical attacks are nullified before this technique. No matter how violent the strike, it won’t amount to more than a fruitless attempt. The enemy will just exhaust themselves accordingly and eventually fall to the ground.

Ay's physical attacks will do nothing.

Also, I don't really care what the anime showed. We're not talking about the anime, we're talking about the manga. Kishimoto inspired the anime he didn't create it, he didn't write it. He didn't illustrate it. The best illustration we have from Kishimoto looks like Ay is touching that Suiton. IF we are to start describing things the anime showed that manga didn't a very slippery slope opens up.

Also deceleration occurs just as acceleration does. One doesn't suddenly just slow down in mid-air . That's not how physics work. It's a gradual thing that builds upon itself.

Also its not just Ay's decrease in speed. And it's the fact that since Ay can't move side to side Ay isn't blitzing from more than 50 meters. Which would obviously be at least how high up Katsuyu is. Tsunade would be able to react. It's entirely asinine to say otherwise.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

Tazzilla88 said:
Look the entire strength argument is a moot point. (which is why I've been arguing towards the fact that Ay's fist would simply penetrate) I think your argument is severely flawed. But also enough time has been wasted. Ay's physical attacks will do nothing.

Also, I don't really care what the anime showed. We're not talking about the anime, we're talking about the manga. Kishimoto inspired the anime he didn't create it, he didn't write it. He didn't illustrate it. The best illustration we have from Kishimoto looks like Ay is touching that Suiton. IF we are to start describing things the anime showed that manga didn't a very slippery slope opens up.

Are you joking with this point? Yes, you've proven that physical attacks don't actually damage her because she is a boneless mollusk and that binding her doesn't work due to her ability to split apart, not that physical attacks can't physically move her body. :lol Try again.

Ay's physical attacks will knock Tsunade off, or he simply attacks Tsunade directly. Whether or not you won't concede on the former is irrelevant because your arguments for the latter are extremely weak and makes zero sense. Thus Tsunade literally has no way to defeat Ay here.

And lmao what are you on about now? The anime is the Manga, but illustrated. We can easily identify the parts that aren't in the Manga and exclude them. Ay directly touching Mei's Suiton was never shown. Ay directly touching the stream is impossible as I've already explained. The anime shows what actually happened.

Also deceleration occurs just as acceleration does. One doesn't suddenly just slow down in mid-air . That's not how physics work. It's a gradual thing that builds upon itself.

Also its not just Ay's decrease in speed. And it's the fact that since Ay can't move side to side Ay isn't blitzing from more than 50 meters. Which would obviously be at least how high up Katsuyu is. Tsunade would be able to react. It's entirely asinine to say otherwise.

Well obviously it's not a sudden decrease in speed. Did I say it was? No. Tsunade being able to react well enough to actually counter Ay is of course based on nothing, just like every other terrible attempt you made to try and prove that Tsunade would be able to react.

Reacting, physically reacting, and physically reacting well enough to actually counter him are 3 completely different things and you have no proof or even evidence she can manage all 3. Whether or not he can move side to side doesn't matter as he doesn't need to dodge Tsunade. Either he lands a direct hit or the best she can manage is a block, and then she gets knocked off of Katsuyu and Ay follows up with another attack.

Tazzilla88 · Nov 17, 2016

KidGamer65 said:
Are you joking with this point? Yes, you've proven that physical attacks don't actually damage her because she is a boneless mollusk and that binding her doesn't work due to her ability to split apart, not that physical attacks can't physically move her body. :lol Try again.

No I said the entire attempt of physically doing anything will be fruitless. If Tsunade punches Katsuyu, Katsuyu isn't moving.

Ay's physical attacks will knock Tsunade off, or he simply attacks Tsunade directly. Whether or not you won't concede on the former is irrelevant because your arguments for the latter are extremely weak and makes zero sense. Thus Tsunade literally has no way to defeat Ay here.

This is all silly. Not even Slug great division made Tsunade fall off of Katsuyu. Ay flying into Katsuyu wouldn't either

And lmao what are you on about now? The anime is the Manga, but illustrated. We can easily identify the parts that aren't in the Manga and exclude them. Ay directly touching Mei's Suiton was never shown. Ay directly touching the stream is impossible as I've already explained. The anime shows what actually happened.

False. Prime example. Tsunade v Orochimaru

Well obviously it's not a sudden decrease in speed. Did I say it was? No. Tsunade being able to react well enough to actually counter Ay is of course based on nothing, just like every other terrible attempt you made to try and prove that Tsunade would be able to react.

Actually, you said massive speed loss doesn't occur until near the apex, which a dramatic drop in speed would be a sudden decrease. So, yeah you did. Ay's starting distance matters. V2 doesn't exist in a vaccuum. He's not closing that distance before Tsunade can react. Asserting he can is rediculous.

Reacting, physically reacting, and physically reacting well enough to actually counter him are 3 completely different things and you have no proof or even evidence she can manage all 3. Whether or not he can move side to side doesn't matter as he doesn't need to dodge Tsunade.

Common sense. But to keep himself out of her eyesight he would need to do that. As he doesn't travel faster than the speed of light. So barreling towards her in a straight line from over 50 meters would make him clearly visible. Nothing even suggests that Ay can shunshin for 50 meters.

DemonicAvenger · Nov 17, 2016

Js, Base Bee had a shunshin feat over 50 meters and so does BM Naruto

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

Tazzilla88 said:
No I said the entire attempt of physically doing anything will be fruitless. If Tsunade punches Katsuyu, Katsuyu isn't moving.

Yeah, but what you said isn't what I care about. What is true is what I care about and what I said is what the entry you posted stated. Nothing more. Nothing about this 'physical attacks don't move her" BS you are trying to push.

This is all silly. Not even Slug great division made Tsunade fall off of Katsuyu. Ay flying into Katsuyu wouldn't either

What are you even talking about? When did this happen first of all? Second of all these aren't even close to being the same thing.

False. Prime example. Tsunade v Orochimaru

Which doesn't disprove a thing I said. The anime added new parts that we can clearly identify and determine are new parts that weren't in the Manga.

Actually, you said speed doesn't decrease drastically until near the apex, which a dramatic drop in speed would be a sudden decrease. So, yeah you did. Ay's starting distance matters. V2 doesn't exist in a vaccuum. He's not closing that distance before Tsunade can react. Asserting he can is rediculous.

Based on nothing. Repeating the bold over and over isn't going to make your argument true.

Common sense.

If this is the best you can do you should probably just stop replying now. :lol

But to keep himself out of her eyesight he would need to do that. As he doesn't travel faster than the speed of light. So barreling towards her in a straight line from over 50 meters would make him clearly visible.

Who cares? Her being able to see his path doesn't mean that she is fast enough to react and counter. The best she'll manage is a block from 50m.

Nothing even suggests that Ay can shunshin for 50 meters.

:lol Are you kidding me? Did I not just post a scan of B clearing a distance close to that if not greater than that in Base? Sasuke cleared the same distance to chase after B. B then cleared the same distance again after Sasuke dodged his lariat. Did I not just post a scan of Ay matching Naruto's speed and intercepting him in the air at a distance around that in V1? Do I have to reiterate the fact that V2 is far faster than any of these guys? :lol.

This reach doesn't even make sense. Shunshin is an explosive burst of speed. Unless you are going to argue Ay can't jump 50 meters into the air there is no arguing "nothing suggest he can shunshin for 50m". What is "shunshining for 50m" anyway? That sentence inherently makes no sense.

Tazzilla88 · Nov 17, 2016

KidGamer65 said:
Yeah, but what you said isn't what I care about. What is true is what I care about and what I said is what the entry you posted stated. Nothing more. Nothing about this 'physical attacks don't move her" BS you are trying to push.

O_O

What are you even talking about? When did this happen first of all? Second of all these aren't even close to being the same thing.

During that Sannin battle

Which doesn't disprove a thing I said. The anime added new parts that we can clearly identify and determine are new parts that weren't in the Manga.

It proves the anime is inconsistent with the manga and adds things as they please. And as the manga didn't show Ay's hand hovering over a suition, that would be an anime addition.

Who cares? Her being able to see his path doesn't mean that she is fast enough to react and counter. The best she'll manage is a block from 50m.

Who has Ay blitzed from this distance. One person? 50 meters provides enough reaction time that Tsunade can react. Because it won't be teleportation fast. He'll gradually lose speed as he goes vertically upward.

:lol Are you kidding me? Did I not just post a scan of B clearing a distance close to that if not greater than that in Base? Sasuke cleared the same distance to chase after B. B then cleared the same distance again after Sasuke dodged his lariat. Did I not just post a scan of Ay matching Naruto's speed and intercepting him in the air at a distance around that in V1? Do I have to reiterate the fact that V2 is far faster than any of these guys? :lol.

This reach doesn't even make sense. Shunshin is an explosive burst of speed. Unless you are going to argue Ay can't jump 50 meters into the air there is no arguing "nothing suggest he can shunshin for 50m". What is "shunshining for 50m" anyway? That sentence inherently makes no sense.

I'm not sure you realize how large 50 meters is at the fact that Ay has never been seen jumping that distance. Ay isn't jumping the distance from the endzone to the 50 yard line vertically.

Nothing says Ay can jump that high faster than someone can react. Much less the woman who outsped Mei's handseals. Who you described as fast

KidGamer65 said:
The only feat you can infer from this is that Tsunade was able to come in and strike Madara after Ay hit him, but before Ay started to fall from gravity, thus she's fast.

Also I didn't know that Bee used shunshin vertically to travel said distance when the databook specifically states elevation of starting and ending point is one of the main conditions of shunshin that along with the distance. Nothing says Ay can blitz at 50 meter vertical incline.

Also did you just comment that Ay was able to keep up with Naruto's jump therefore his jump to a much higher distance will blitz? Notwithstanding the fact that Naruto jumped a farther distance giving Ay more time. Or the fact, that Naruto isn't immune to gravity and also slows down in mid air.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

Tazzilla88 said:
O_O

During that Sannin battle

It proves the anime is inconsistent with the manga and adds things as they please. And as the manga didn't show Ay's hand hovering over a suition, that would be an anime addition.

Yet I've already addressed this exact statement in multiple ways.

Who has Ay blitzed from this distance. One person? 50 meters provides enough reaction time that Tsunade can react. Because it won't be teleportation fast. He'll gradually lose speed as he goes vertically upward.

Based on what? I'm just going to wait for you to actually support the fact that Tsunade can counter with a strike instead of you simply repeating your assertion. Stop with the losing speed argument if you can't actually use that to support your point. If Katsuyu's height was the limit Ay could jump then maybe you'd have some slight point, but it's not. There will be no major slowdown. He'll dash at her, punch her, and knock her off. If I throw a ball at a wall 10 meters away it's not going to slow down just because it's nearing a target. It will slow down when the force I put on it can't take it any further.

Ay has shown to jump over 50m in a slower form. Slower and weaker people have Shunshin'd at higher/longer distances. 50m isn't his limit so there's no reason why he'd slow down before hitting Tsunade.

I'm not sure you realize how large 50 meters is at the fact that Ay has never been seen jumping that distance. Ay isn't jumping the distance from the endzone to the 50 yard line vertically.

Nothing says Ay can jump that high faster than someone can react. Much less the woman who outsped Mei's handseals. Who you described as fast

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That is a 50m long swimming pool. Cut the crap buddy. :lol Ay has jumped at a height surpassing Katsuyu's on panel. B has traveled a distance far longer than that on panel. Sasuke did the same thing. BM Naruto has done the same thing. Madara and Obito dashed from their initial locations to the top of the Juubi's head. Taller than Katsuyu by far. Stop grasping at straws. Outspeeding Mei's hand seals is irrelevant. Mei is not Ay. Mei is nowhere near Ay's speed. Outspeeding Mei's hand seals+execution of her jutsu doesn't mean she's fast enough to react to and counter Ay with a strike. The best you can argue her managing is a block. Period.

Also I didn't know that Bee used shunshin vertically to travel said distance when the databook specifically states elevation of starting and ending point is one of the main conditions of shunshin that along with the distance. Nothing says Ay can blitz at 50 meter vertical incline.

Can you stop making stuff up and just admit you are wrong when it's apparent that you are?

Body Flicker Technique (Shunshin no Jutsu)

Ninjutsu, D-rank, Supplementary

Users: Gaara, Hatake Kakashi, et al

A movement technique with extreme speed like a gust of wind!!

Appearing along with the wind, disappearing like the wind: the ninja’s instantaneous movement technique. This super fast movement is almost impossible to grasp with the naked eye. If seen by an ordinary person, it would seem as if the user has teleported… In reality, the user has vitalized his body with chakra and moved at super speeds. The amount of chakra used up differs depending on the distance and elevation of their stopping point in comparison to the starting point.

The cloud of sand dances in the wind…

Haku’s and Kakashi’s Body Flicker. Dancing leaves and disappearing in an instant like mist.

There are many variations of the Body Flicker for the various villages and user. Gaara’s use includes the Sand Body Flicker. There are also the Mist Body Flicker, Water Body Flicker

The amount of chakra used up differs depending on the distance and elevation of their destination in comparison with their starting point. This means the further or higher you travel, the more chakra you use. Where does it say that you need to be on the ground to use Shunshin? Where does it say that you can't use Shunshin at a vertical incline? (Not to mention it won't be a vertical incline. If it was vertical he'd dash up and straight past Tsunade. The incline would obviously be slanted)

:lol

Also did you just comment that Ay was able to keep up with Naruto's jump therefore his jump to a much higher distance will blitz? Notwithstanding the fact that Naruto jumped a farther distance giving Ay more time. Or the fact, that Naruto isn't immune to gravity and also slows down in mid air.

No, I said Ay has already jumped over 50m in canon, thus he does so with even more ease in V2.

RedRobin · Nov 17, 2016

KidGamer65 said:
Your input is irrelevant until you address my post buddy. You can only piggy back off Tazilla for so long.

I just said one thing. I will get to your post. I promise.

Another one thing. To move Katsuyu Ay would have to hit her to do it but as I said she absorbs his attacks so even if he tries hitting her to knock Tsunade down Katsuyu would just absorb his hits and Tsunade wouldnt feel anything all the way on top.

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Katsuyu absorbs impacts if she didnt Naruto's back would have broken from this fall.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

RedRobin said:
I just said one thing. I will get to your post. I promise.

Another one thing. To move Katsuyu Ay would have to hit her to do it but as I said she absorbs his attacks so even if he tries hitting her to knock Tsunade down Katsuyu would just absorb his hits and Tsunade wont feel anything all the way on top.

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Katsuyu absorbs impacts if she didnt even Naruto's back would have broken from this fall.

As usual what you guys are saying makes no sense. Katsuyu withstanding the force of the impact doesn't mean that she won't be moved by the force of the impact. If Katsuyu moves, Tsunade will move as she is on top of it.

And really now? That's not any special attribute Katsuyu has. Replace Katsuyu with an ordinary mattress and the result would've been the same. Does that mean a physical strike can't move a mattress either? :lol I hope that's not what you are going to argue next.

RedRobin · Nov 17, 2016

KidGamer65 said:
As usual what you guys are saying makes no sense. Katsuyu withstanding the force of the impact doesn't mean that she won't be moved by the force of the impact. If Katsuyu moves, Tsunade will move as she is on top of it.

And really now? That's not any special attribute Katsuyu has. Replace Katsuyu with an ordinary mattress and the result would've been the same. Does that mean a physical strike can't move a mattress either? :lol I hope that's not what you are going to argue next.

She's not just withstanding the force of the the impact, she is absorbing it. Meaning the force which would generally push a foe back is just absorbed into the body.

I mean I doubt a mattress could have completely stopped Naruto from getting hurt. I see where you are going but look at the impact a segment of Katsuyu made, the one segment came down like a boulder imagine how much Katsuyu actually weighs. I mean a mattress hardly weighs anything compared to Katsuyu. So yeah this depends on Katsuyu's weight plus her ability.

You would need to prove Ay has enough strength to still be able to move Katsuyu's weight despite her already absorbing his hits. Which I dont think you can.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

RedRobin said:
She's not just withstanding the force of the the impact, she is absorbing it. Meaning the force which would generally push a foe back is just absorbed into the body.

I mean I doubt a mattress could have completely stopped Naruto from getting hurt. I see where you are going but look at the impact a segment of Katsuyu made, the one segment came down like a boulder imagine how much Katsuyu actually weighs. I mean a mattress hardly weighs anything compared to Katsuyu. So yeah this depends on Katsuyu's weight plus her ability.

You would need to prove Ay has enough strength to still be able to move Katsuyu's weight despite her already absorbing his hits. Which I dont think you can.

Um. I hate to break it to you, but that's not a special attribute of Katsuyu. That's literally how force works regardless of the object. If a force isn't strong enough to make it past target A, target B isn't going to be pushed back by said force. like I said. A mattress would soften the fall of anyone else in any similar situation, doesn't just have to be Naruto's situation so whether or not a mattress would protect him is irrelevant, yet a mattress can be moved by physical strikes.

Katsuyu's weight is irrelevant in that scenario. Her durability and the nature of her body is why Naruto wasn't hurt by the fall. What you are saying doesn't even make sense.

That example isn't even a good example for your claim because that's Katsuyu cushioning a fall. Irrelevant to whether or not physical hits can move Katsuyu as they are not the same situation. And I've already shown that Ay can move weight on par with Katsuyu's. The absorbing thing is irrelevant. You are taking a typical law of physics and trying to twist it into something it's not. Don't argue things you don't understand. Katsuyu being able to cushion a fall doesn't mean that Katsuyu can't be moved by physical force nor is that what her DB entry states.

Physical force doesn't do damage. Nothing more. Nothing less. That's it.

Tazzilla88 · Nov 17, 2016

KidGamer65 said:
Yet I've already addressed this exact statement in multiple ways.

insufficiently

Based on what? I'm just going to wait for you to actually support the fact that Tsunade can counter with a strike instead of you simply repeating your assertion. Stop with the losing speed argument if you can't actually use that to support your point. If Katsuyu's height was the limit Ay could jump then maybe you'd have some slight point, but it's not. There will be no major slowdown. He'll dash at her, punch her, and knock her off. If I throw a ball at a wall 10 meters away it's not going to slow down just because it's nearing a target. It will slow down when the force I put on it can't take it any further.

you know this isn't the way it works right? You said Ay can do something you have to show that he can. You argue he can close that distance before she can react . And you've presented no evidence that he can't be reacted to from that distance coming in a straight line Also man, it's not cool to bully RR and try to shut down what he's saying. Regardless if he spoke to what you wanted him to or not. You just looked at my post and said I don't care about what you said because what I believe is right and then proceeded to not talk about my point. So maybe don't treat someone that way.

Also the simple fact is you can't debate physics so you don't want to talk about Ay obviously gets slower or he's flying. Period. There is no dashing in mid air, the moment he leaves the ground he begins slowing down because he has no way to add acceleration.

Ay has shown to jump over 50m in a slower form. Slower and weaker people have Shunshin'd at higher/longer distances. 50m isn't his limit so there's no reason why he'd slow down before hitting Tsunade.

well I'd certainly love to see those scans of Ay.

You must be registered for see links

That is a 50m long swimming pool. Cut the crap buddy. :lol Ay has jumped at a height surpassing Katsuyu's on panel.

scan? Because I hold that he's not jumping over a 15 story building. That's absurd.

B has traveled a distance far longer than that on panel. Sasuke did the same thing. BM Naruto has done the same thing. Madara and Obito dashed from their initial locations to the top of the Juubi's head.

Not Ay

Stop grasping at straws. Outspeeding Mei's hand seals is irrelevant. Mei is not Ay. Mei is nowhere near Ay's speed. Outspeeding Mei's hand seals+execution of her jutsu doesn't mean she's fast enough to react to and counter Ay with a strike. The best you can argue her managing is a block. Period.

well no that's your argument mine is he jumps toward and gets wrecked. There is nothing that disproves that besides your opinion. Unless you have scans of Ay. Ay is coming from 50 meters he wouldn't hit Mei before she got a jutsu up at that distance. 10 meters sure but 150 feet I don't think so.

This means the further or higher you travel, the more chakra you use. Where does it say that you need to be on the ground to use Shunshin? Where does it say that you can't use Shunshin at a vertical incline? (Not to mention it won't be a vertical incline. If it was vertical he'd dash up and straight past Tsunade. The incline would obviously be slanted)

never said he can't just that what your calling a shunshin is just a super jump by another name and not the dashing shunshin that comes mind when one says shunshin. Then argued that from the distance he started at there is no evidence to suggest his jump won't be avoidable. I am glad you mentioned the fact that he will be coming on a slant as 50 meters was a bone I gave you as the minimum distance, the fact is that as the distance increases the time it takes making a slant even easier to react to than a straight vertical leap.

No, I said Ay has already jumped over 50m in canon, thus he does so with even more ease in V2.

yes YOU'VE said. It be great though if we can talk about the manga and not you. Maybe we can start by posting a scan.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

Tazzilla88 said:
insufficiently

Then actually address it.

you know this isn't the way it works right? You said Ay can do something you have to show that he can. You argue he can close that distance before she can react . And you've presented no evidence that he can't be reacted to from that distance coming in a straight line Also man, it's not cool to bully RR and try to shut down what he's saying. Regardless if he spoke to what you wanted him to or not. You just looked at my post and said I don't care about what you said because what I believe is right and then proceeded to not talk about my point. So maybe don't treat someone that way.

Also the simple fact is you can't debate physics so you don't want to talk about Ay obviously gets slower or he's flying. Period. There is no dashing in mid air, the moment he leaves the ground he begins slowing down because he has no way to add acceleration.

well I'd certainly love to see those scans of Ay.

Where is the evidence Tsunade can react to someone as fast as Ay well enough to counter attack? Not block. Not make hand signs. COUNTER ATTACK. I'll wait.

There is no point in debating physics. I've already addressed why that point doesn't help you. So instead of actually addressing the argument you type up this nonsense and expect anyone to actually think you make a shred of sense. And no, I've addressed every garbage point you've ever made in this exchange that I can't even call a debate anymore due to how dramatically the quality of your posts dropped. I looked at your post and told you I don't care about your opinion backed with no fact, because the Manga has already spoken the opposite of what you think is true.

scan? Because I hold that he's not jumping over a 15 story building. That's absurd.

Lmao. Good thing Katsuyu isn't a 15 story building.

Not Ay

You're right. They aren't Ay. They are all shinobi who are far slower than Ay.

well no that's your argument mine is he jumps toward and gets wrecked. There is nothing that disproves that besides your opinion. Unless you have scans of Ay. Ay is coming from 50 meters he wouldn't hit Mei before she got a jutsu up at that distance. 10 meters sure but 150 feet I don't think so.

Ay's speed feats have already been posted. Tsunade's speed feats are insufficient for you to claim she can react fast enough to actually strike him. All you have are opinions. I have actual feats. That's why instead of proving and/or supporting she can react to someone of his speed well enough to counter with an attack with actual feats, you are making opinionated statements with no basis behind them. That's why all you can do is cross out statements and reply "Not Ay" even though the shinobi who accomplished said feat are nowhere near as fast as Ay nor are any of them as physically powerful as he is except for B, who is again, far slower than Ay.

never said he can't just that what your calling a shunshin is just a super jump by another name and not the dashing shunshin that comes mind when one says shunshin. Then argued that from the distance he started at there is no evidence to suggest his jump won't be avoidable. I am glad you mentioned the fact that he will be coming on a slant as 50 meters was a bone I gave you as the minimum distance, the fact is that as the distance increases the time it takes making a slant even easier to react to than a straight vertical leap.

There is no difference. Stop trying to invent one. Shunshin is a burst of explosive speed. Chakra is gathered to the feet and then released causing the user to "explode" off the ground. How does Ay traveling up in a vertical slant change the fact that it's Shunshin? Inventing your own definitions and meanings for jutsu won't get you anywhere bud.

-B crossed far over 50 meters w/ Shunshin. Scan was already posted.
-Sasuke followed him across the same distance.
-B crossed that same distance again in V1.
-Madara and Obito jumped from ground level to the top of the Juubi. Obito and Madara are not as physically powerful or as fast as Ay.

Stop arguing that Ay can't reach Tsunade on top of Katsuyu. It's an extremely stupid argument.

Are you going to just keep ignoring these facts in favor of a fanboyism fueled opinion? Are you going to drag this argument on for 4-5 more posts before you post something along the lines of "oops, I knew I was wrong the whole time but I was just making up shit for the lolz"? Lmao.

yes YOU'VE said. It be great though if we can talk about the manga and not you. Maybe we can start by posting a scan.

I've already posted multiple scans of him and people weaker traversing far greater distances with Shunshin. Ignoring them doesn't make them vanish, it exposes you to be as delusional and biased I've already called you out for being. Debate's been over. It's just you fanboying at this point and it's pathetic.

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

And people wonder why Tsunade fans aren't taken seriously. Because of arguments and posters like this guy.

"Konohamaru strikes Ay from 50 meters because I said so". Prove me wrong.

That is Tazilla's argument. Funny how we went from elaborate descriptions of events and panels to arguments like this. Just goes to show you that he knows he's wrong but won't admit it until he wastes time dragging this on another 3 pages. :lol

Tazzilla88 · Nov 17, 2016

I'm noticing a general lack of scans

KidGamer65 · Nov 17, 2016

Tazzilla88 said:
I'm noticing a general lack of scans

You must be registered for see links

:lol I'm noticing a general lack of logic, but considering who I'm arguing with I can't be surprised. Go to bed son.

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