DRSM Madara or Rinnegan Sasuke

[Illuminater]

madara was stronger than sasuke. He had limbos, mokuton, and meteors. Plus his taijutsu was good enough to dodge sasukes taijutsu blind.

 

[Dizzldot]

Literally nothing from the manga implies Limbo can use Susanoo. Madara only mixed a small portion of Ashura's chakra with his own, resulting in the Rinnegan. Whereas, Sasuke received 50% of chakra from Hagoromo himself. Stronger chakra = stronger jutsu, that's the same reason why Sasuke's now able to bust meteors with Chidori while Kakakshi can't with a Lighting Blade. Sand=/=Wood. If Sasuke's Enton was cutting through solid ice, then it shouldn't have a problem cutting through wood :lol

Cutting through a wood dragon is a lot different then cutting through a block of ice
the 50% argument is a double edged sword yes sasuke got the yin half but madara has both parts
stronger chakra=stronger jutsu has almost never been a factor in the show and saying that difference will make sasuke's susanoo cut through madara's is baseless
Limbo using susanoo is just an assumption because I thought it could use all madara's techs which is what put madara above sasuke imo

 

[Dizzldot]

Lol all of it is bold.

OT: Why does it matter? Current Sasuke is the strongest to date.

Calm down fanboy its a fun comparison thread jeez can none have fun with these, go make a naruto hashi thread and Ill bash on naruto all day long if you want

 

[KidGamer65]

@Bold, My problem with arguing like that means that I could say because JJ madara didnt use susanoo at all when it would've been beneficial then he can't use it since he's a JJ which is baseless besides saying he didnt use it after he could use it when he wasn't a JJ.

The superior chakra argument idk because Madara has natural energy buffing it along with Indra+ashura's chakra while also having a copy of hagoromo's in turn from that. But for the sake of the argument Ill give that to sasuke because he did get it directly from hago but I'm not completely convinced one half>the two parts of the whole
I agree with the rinne techs canceling besides ameno and Limbo which I think limbo is the perfect defense because Madara can switch with the limbo so if sasuke ameno chidori's him he may be able to switch wight he limbo and have it absorb the damage instead
In cqc I dont agree entirely, Madara's CQC is top notch, yes sasuke has ameno but that has limited uses while limbo's duration is much longer and recharges quickly

But there is evidence he can use Susanoo as a JJ. There's none that Limbo can replicate all of the user's Ninjutsu.

Your line of thinking doesn't work here. Indra+Ashura=Hagoromo. That's what Madara has. Sasuke has chakra straight from Hagoromo himself. Sasuke has half the amount, not half of what makes it up. They both have the same chakra the only difference is the power and size.

Limbo only works as a defense if Madara can react fast enough to Ameno, but considering RSM Naruto who is on par w/ JJ Madara in reaction speed who would obviously be far faster than the Madara in this thread can be tagged w/ a distraction, Sasuke would rip itno Madara w/ Chidori long before he reacted and escaped after switching with Limbo. So Sasuke destroys him in CQC.

 

[JStar King]

@Bold Madara could probably do that as well but yes he would win if he had that and madara didnt just noticed your whole statement is bold, thats pertaining to bijuu susanoo

I literally don't hate sasuke at all wtf if you're gunna act like a butthurt salty fap because I made a VS thread that is still going hot where I put a second scenario where he had his susanoo then get out. I didnt nerf him more than any restriction in any other vs thread does don't be butthurt because the overwhelming majority said he loses jeez answer the damn question or leave
BTW ill just laugh at that made madara desperate part
Seriously though chill with the tapping like I took away 1 jutsu from MS sauske in the versus thread when people have taken away way mores and you're pissy cause it means he loses without one power, so you're conceding that his surviving was an asspull power up?

Not butthurt. I just wonder why you hate him so much to the point, you downplay him and his feats in every thread.

 

[SenseiSama]

1. Blitz Madara and chop his head off

2. Send head to another dimension

 

[SenseiSama]

But there is evidence he can use Susanoo as a JJ.

Where's the evidence ? He only used it when he had one eye or when he had the fake double RInnegan. Having two Rinnegan means having 100% of Hagoromo's eye power and therefore none of Indra's left.

 

[Dizzldot]

Not butthurt. I just wonder why you hate him so much to the point, you downplay him and his feats in every thread.

I like sasuke hate his fanbase they're psychopaths who live vicariously through a manga character it makes me sad they need to think they're a fictional character
stop being butthurt at this thread have fun brobeans go bash naruto Ill have fun pointing out how he's a much worse Asura then Hashirama was

 

[KidGamer65]

Where's the evidence ? He only used it when he had one eye or when he had the fake double RInnegan. Having two Rinnegan means having 100% of Hagoromo's eye power and therefore none of Indra's left.

That makes zero sense and is wrong.

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He used Susanoo before, and gaining the Juubi hasn't hinted to prevent anyone from using Susanoo or any similar jutsu.

 

[Dizzldot]

But there is evidence he can use Susanoo as a JJ. There's none that Limbo can replicate all of the user's Ninjutsu.

Your line of thinking doesn't work here. Indra+Ashura=Hagoromo. That's what Madara has. Sasuke has chakra straight from Hagoromo himself. Sasuke has half the amount, not half of what makes it up. They both have the same chakra the only difference is the power and size.

Limbo only works as a defense if Madara can react fast enough to Ameno, but considering RSM Naruto who is on par w/ JJ Madara in reaction speed who would obviously be far faster than the Madara in this thread can be tagged w/ a distraction, Sasuke would rip itno Madara w/ Chidori long before he reacted and escaped after switching with Limbo. So Sasuke destroys him in CQC.

The chakra quality thing, I was under the impression it doesnt work like madara chooses when he uses hag's power and sasuke doesnt choose when he uses hago's yin half but its just embedded in their chakra. From that standpoint I get that more would dilute their own charka more making it closer to the sage himself but madara also has the yang half sasuke doesnt which is why he and naruto got the yin and yang seals respectively. Also madara has senjutsu buffing his chakra to go along with it and the reserve increase form hash's cells.

The amen is interesting because naruto clearly turned his head and was able to think a few worlds before sasuke hit him with chidori, from that standpoint madara should easily be able to instantly switch with a limbo no? I don't think we can count on sasuke amenoning around madara like minato uses FTG to overwhelm him in cqc. Madara also reacted to Tobirama's FTG somehow which is instant as well and unless we assume he knew tobirama was transporting to that kunai before he did then it was all a reactionary feat giving enough evidence to support he can react to ameno with knowledge of it.

@Bold, There is no evidence of madara using susanoo as a juubi jin since he never manifested it in anyway in times it would've been helpful so we can't say thats more possible then limbo using ninjutsu

 

[KidGamer65]

The chakra quality thing, I was under the impression it doesnt work like madara chooses when he uses hag's power and sasuke doesnt choose when he uses hago's yin half but its just embedded in their chakra. From that standpoint I get that more would dilute their own charka more making it closer to the sage himself but madara also has the yang half sasuke doesnt which is why he and naruto got the yin and yang seals respectively. Also madara has senjutsu buffing his chakra to go along with it and the reserve increase form hash's cells.

That's exactly how it works, but there is no yin half and yang half of Hagoromo's chakra. Chakra is chakra. Naruto got the Yang Seal and half of his total chakra. Sasuke got the Yin Seal and half of his total chakra. And the amount of Senjutsu he took from Hashirama doesn't match up compared to Hagoromo's power.

The amen is interesting because naruto clearly turned his head and was able to think a few worlds before sasuke hit him with chidori, from that standpoint madara should easily be able to instantly switch with a limbo no? I don't think we can count on sasuke amenoning around madara like minato uses FTG to overwhelm him in cqc. Madara also reacted to Tobirama's FTG somehow which is instant as well and unless we assume he knew tobirama was transporting to that kunai before he did then it was all a reactionary feat giving enough evidence to support he can react to ameno with knowledge of it.

He has to physically move out of the way.

-Madara dodges.
-Leaves Limbo behind.

If he can't physically evade or react to Sasuke's attack there's no way that he'll switch out with a Limbo in time. Reacting to Tobirama is irrelevant. Hiraishin is instant, not the attack that comes after it. Tobirama was defeated because Madara was fast enough to counter him, but Sasuke has factually tagged someone far faster than this version of Madara so there's no way you can argue he reacts to a blitz well enough to survive.

@Bold, There is no evidence of madara using susanoo as a juubi jin since he never manifested it in anyway in times it would've been helpful so we can't say thats more possible then limbo using ninjutsu

We can because he used it before, and there's no reason that gaining the Juubi would make him unable to use Susanoo while Limbo have never used Ninjutsu.

 

[Dizzldot]

That's exactly how it works, but there is no yin half and yang half of Hagoromo's chakra. Chakra is chakra. Naruto got the Yang Seal and half of his total chakra. Sasuke got the Yin Seal and half of his total chakra. And the amount of Senjutsu he took from Hashirama doesn't match up compared to Hagoromo's power.



He has to physically move out of the way.

-Madara dodges.
-Leaves Limbo behind.

If he can't physically evade or react to Sasuke's attack there's no way that he'll switch out with a Limbo in time. Reacting to Tobirama is irrelevant. Hiraishin is instant, not the attack that comes after it. Tobirama was defeated because Madara was fast enough to counter him, but Sasuke has factually tagged someone far faster than this version of Madara so there's no way you can argue he reacts to a blitz well enough to survive.



We can because he used it before, and there's no reason that gaining the Juubi would make him unable to use Susanoo while Limbo have never used Ninjutsu.

@Bold, you're arguing with the same logic but for different causes one you agree the other you dont. Assuming he can use it because he did before a major plot change happened but then assuming limbo can't because they never showed it are almost the same thing. There is no reason limbo shouldn't be able to use ninjutsu since all "clones" have been shown to be able to, as well as no reason madara shouldn't be able to use susanoo since he did before.

Limbo can appear as a barrier right in front of him and stop the chidori imo thats just what I think since its near instant. As well as Tobirama's attack not being instant the same goes for sasuke's and hitting naruto=/=hitting madara with a basically invisible barrier that can pop out whenever from my point of view when sasuke and naruto tagged him and he switched it seemed like limbo just switched places with his body which is what the wiki on it says so I don't believe he needs enough space between him and the target to put another limbo body in order for it to work

I didnt realize thats how it worked with the chakra they got I thought it was just their chakra now and they use it all the time. I also thought thats why they got the yin and yang seals because his chakra was divided into half and he was made up of yin and yang

 

[KidGamer65]

@Bold, you're arguing with the same logic but for different causes one you agree the other you dont. Assuming he can use it because he did before a major plot change happened but then assuming limbo can't because they never showed it are almost the same thing. There is no reason limbo shouldn't be able to use ninjutsu since all "clones" have been shown to be able to, as well as no reason madara shouldn't be able to use susanoo since he did before.

It's not the same logic. The difference is Madara has used Susanoo in the past. Limbo has never used Ninjutsu. Always Taijutsu. All you can say is "it should be able to do use Ninjutsu because it is a clone" but that's not definitive evidence when every single time without fail they always used physical attacks.

And even if you could prove that they could use Ninjutsu, you wouldn't be able to prove they could use his strongest techniques on the same scale as he can himself.

Limbo can appear as a barrier right in front of him and stop the chidori imo thats just what I think since its near instant. As well as Tobirama's attack not being instant the same goes for sasuke's and hitting naruto=/=hitting madara with a basically invisible barrier that can pop out whenever from my point of view when sasuke and naruto tagged him and he switched it seemed like limbo just switched places with his body which is what the wiki on it says so I don't believe he needs enough space between him and the target to put another limbo body in order for it to work

Limbo appearing is instant, but Madara's reaction isn't and that's what this entire argument depends on, but there's no evidence Madara can react to something that Naruto had issues with when Naruto is>= the Juubi Jinchuuriki version of this same Madara in reaction speed.

And he didn't switch places. If you look at the scan you can see something jumping up in the air. That's Madara after he switched.

I didnt realize thats how it worked with the chakra they got I thought it was just their chakra now and they use it all the time. I also thought thats why they got the yin and yang seals because his chakra was divided into half and he was made up of yin and yang

It is their chakra. I didn't say otherwise, but they didn't get yin or yang chakra, just yin and yang seals.

 

[Styles]

What if it's Double Rinnegan JJ Madara vs VOTE 2 Sasuke (Bijuu Susanoo). That would be an awesome fight to see.

To be honest i don't see a difference between double Rinnegan JJ Madara and 3 eyed Madara all he really got was IT immortality and more chakra.

 

[Holy God]

Powers aside, I still don't know how some of these people quantify the amount of Hagoromo's chakra Sasuke and Madara have. Just because Hagoromo as a summoned spirit gave Sasuke chakra does not mean it was the same amount as he had when alive and hosted the Ten-Tails, and just because Madara only used a small piece of Hashirama's DNA doesn't mean he only gets a little chakra, since we've been shown Kabuto's entire chakra amount changed to a combination.

 

[Dizzldot]

It's not the same logic. The difference is Madara has used Susanoo in the past. Limbo has never used Ninjutsu. Always Taijutsu. All you can say is "it should be able to do use Ninjutsu because it is a clone" but that's not definitive evidence when every single time without fail they always used physical attacks.

And even if you could prove that they could use Ninjutsu, you wouldn't be able to prove they could use his strongest techniques on the same scale as he can himself.



Limbo appearing is instant, but Madara's reaction isn't and that's what this entire argument depends on, but there's no evidence Madara can react to something that Naruto had issues with when Naruto is>= the Juubi Jinchuuriki version of this same Madara in reaction speed.

And he didn't switch places. If you look at the scan you can see something jumping up in the air. That's Madara after he switched.



It is their chakra. I didn't say otherwise, but they didn't get yin or yang chakra, just yin and yang seals.

I thought madara flew into the air after because he was leaving not because he needed to its not like his limbo body slowly appears as he moved out of the way for it the body was there and he switched with it therefore allowing him to not be hit by the attack and be paralyzed so the limbo acted as almost a shell of protection.

I agree that it is slightly different because a different version of his character used it but then again obito couldn't use kamui after becoming a JJ so same logic may apply to susanoo for some odd reason.
as for the rest I have no argument I haven't seen any scans to disprove or prove anything

I guess the rest of my argument then goes to the wood clones, if madara can use susanoo with wood clones (if he has enough chakra to do so) then wouldn't he stomp? Arguing that he can't use perfect susanoo with wood clones has no evidence for or against it but I'd say more for it considering it created massive walking susanoo
I believe using multiple susanoo would put him above sasuke and since he did 25 while an edo and its been argued that you just have unlimited chakra refill not unlimited chakra, then alive madara could do that considering he is more powerful then edo, maybe not with the stamina to keep them all up for as long but he could just use less.

 

[Dizzldot]

Powers aside, I still don't know how some of these people quantify the amount of Hagoromo's chakra Sasuke and Madara have. Just because Hagoromo as a summoned spirit gave Sasuke chakra does not mean it was the same amount as he had when alive and hosted the Ten-Tails, and just because Madara only used a small piece of Hashirama's DNA doesn't mean he only gets a little chakra, since we've been shown Kabuto's entire chakra amount changed to a combination.

The is no way to quantify it but I guess their logic is he can only have as much hago chakra as he had ashura to mix with his indra or in other words if he had 50 parts indra chakra and 10 parts ashura chakra he can only have 10 parts hagoromo chakra since he can't have more then he could mix indra and ashura together

 

[Holy God]

The is no way to quantify it but I guess their logic is he can only have as much hago chakra as he had ashura to mix with his indra or in other words if he had 50 parts indra chakra and 10 parts ashura chakra he can only have 10 parts hagoromo chakra since he can't have more then he could mix indra and ashura together

However that logic doesn't work because modifying DNA is not like the example I saw earlier of water and food coloring/dye. Modifying your genes will affect all your cells, thus changing the type of chakra you make. This is why Kabuto was unrecognizable, since he didn't have his own chakra anymore. You don't have to inject or absorb the target's entire body, which is impossible and doesn't make sense in the first place.

 

[SenseiSama]

That makes zero sense and is wrong.

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He used Susanoo before, and gaining the Juubi hasn't hinted to prevent anyone from using Susanoo or any similar jutsu.

It makes total sense.

Susanoo is a Sharingan feat and Hagoromo's eyes do not possess Sharingan jutsu.

Sharingan and Rinnegan are two separate powers and only Kaguya's and Sasuke's eye can possess both. The moment Madara possessed double Rinnegan the Sharingan chakra his brain produces disappears because it fully converts into Hagoromo's chakra.

Edo Madara could use it because he didn't possess the real Rinnegan, Edo is basically an excuse for Kishi to apply his retcons

 

[Dizzldot]

However that logic doesn't work because modifying DNA is not like the example I saw earlier of water and food coloring/dye. Modifying your genes will affect all your cells, thus changing the type of chakra you make. This is why Kabuto was unrecognizable, since he didn't have his own chakra anymore. You don't have to inject or absorb the target's entire body, which is impossible and doesn't make sense in the first place.

Thats my argument that since madara literally mixed the chakras he awoke hagoromo's himself changing his chakra signature and what he produces entirely but I guess others think thats not the case and that getting half directly from the source matters more which if we think logically that should mean after naruto and sasuke use that half up they lose it forever while madara keeps on producing it