Zabuza takes the gauntlet

[Nagato The Sage]

1) I'd give it to sound 4 based on feats, I think they beat 2 tired Jonins with all using CS1

2) Another close one, I favor Darui though because of storm release

3) Zabuza takes this one

Loses 4 and 5

6) Zabuza wins

7) normally I'd favor Zabuza but intel might give Kabuto win since Zabuza doesn't have any

Loses 8

Wins 9

 

[EliteKakashi]

Scenarios:

1- Sound 4. Zabuza has full knowledge. Sound 4 have none.

With no knowledge of how deadly Zabuza is in the mist, the Sound 4 get taken out pretty quickly.

2- Darui. Full knowledge for both

Darui didn't show anything that would allow him to combat Zabuza in the mist. Logically/going off of how Darui was projected in the manga(being a higher tiered character), he should be able to beat Zabuza, but going off of feats, it's extremely difficult to argue for Darui here. Zabuza takes it.

3- Hidan. Full knowledge for both

Hidan facing someone better than him in kenjutsu with that someone having full knowledge? lol Zabuza wouldn't even need mist here.

4- Kimimaro. CM2 is restricted. Full knowledge for both

A terrible matchup for Zabuza. Kimi has an answer for everything in Zabuza's arsenal.

5- Part 1 Kakashi. Full knowledge from the start on both sides this time (yes it makes a difference)

Giving Kakashi full knowledge on an opponent who is similar or lesser than him in skill is pretty much guaranteed to go poorly for the opponent. Kakashi was shown to be the superior of the two in the manga when having knowledge anyway. Zabuza couldn't really touch him unless Kakashi wanted him to.

6- Ginkkaku or Kinkkaku . Zabuza has full knowledge. The duo has none. Bijuu chakra is restricted. He fights only 1 of them.

Knowledge on gin and kin isn't sufficient for me to argue this one way or the other.

7- Part 1 Kabuto. Zabuza has no knowledge. Kabuto has full knowledge

Kabuto has no answer for fighting in mist.

8- Yamato. Zabuza knows about Mokuton. Yamato knows about sillent killing

It's interesting because Yamato can use mokuton as a defense and as an AOE attack in an attempt to capture Zabuza. Not sure how successful he'd be in doing that though, could potentially go either way.

9- Vote 1 Sasuke. Zabuza knows Sasuke has sharingan and a cursed seal. Sasuke has his previous knowledge on him.

lol

 

[KidGamer65]

Based off what feats? Wave arc Kakashi was not impressive at all start of the series team 7 managed to bamboozle Zabuza. he was no match for Kakashi everytime they fought he had to protect someone when Kakashi got out the water prison he negged zabuza.

Stop crying to me about trash posters damn you so emotional. Ratting ass.

Team 7 managing to do what they did means what again? :lol Oh wait, nothing. Especially since it was a team effort unrelated to raw power. "Wave Arc Kakashi was not impressive at all". Good thing that's an opinionated statement. One that is irrelevant in this argument but considering you are arguing something as stupid as PTS Sasuke>Zabuza I'm not really surprised.

Zabuza w/ his mist is capable of pressuring Kakashi who is superior to Sasuke in every physical ability except durability. There is nothing to argue here. Mist goes up, Sasuke dies a terrible death. You don't even have an argument for how Zabuza loses.

Sasuke would beat Zabuza haku was able to intercept Kakashi while wave arc Sasuke was able to intercept him. Vote Sasuke is leagues above Haku. That alone is implication enough that Part 1 Sasuke can tangle with Zabuza and win.

:lol This nonsense isn't an argument. How does Sasuke intercepting someone who can intercept Kakashi mean that when factoring in other facets of combat besides speed that Sasuke comes out on top? Do you post just for the sake of posting? :lol

Trash poster.

 

[Nattana]

Loses to Kimimaro, Kabuto and Yamato.

 

[EZQ]

1) Wins.
2) Loses.
3) Wins.
4) Probably loses. DB stats enforce that idea.
5) Loses. Doesn't make a difference, since Zabuza knew about the Sharingan during his 2nd encounter. As soon as Kakashi got serious, it was over for Zabuza.
6) Gets raped. Even one is in a different league.
7) Wins.
8) Loses.
9) Wins

Lol the bold is not even close to the truth. I'll post an argumentation on why it is the other way around if you request it. Zabuza beats part 1 Kakashi if they both have full knowledge.

 

[Byakuren]

Lol the bold is not even close to the truth. I'll post an argumentation on why it is the other way around if you request it. Zabuza beats part 1 Kakashi if they both have full knowledge.

You'll post an argumentation? Not just an argument? Lol.

​

 

[EZQ]

You'll post an argumentation? Not just an argument? Lol.

​

English is not my first language. Get used to my post not making sense some times

 

[Byakuren]

English is not my first language. Get used to my post not making sense all the time.

Okay.

​

 

[EliteKakashi]

Lol the bold is not even close to the truth. I'll post an argumentation on why it is the other way around if you request it. Zabuza beats part 1 Kakashi if they both have full knowledge.

It is quite literally cannon that once Kakashi stopped fooling around, Zabuza wasn't really able to compete with him.

You must be registered for see images

This first panel comes from chapter 31 after Zabuza rushes Kakashi after he's killed Haku. Kakashi was done playing games at this point in the fight.

You must be registered for see images

This comes after Kakashi's kick to Zabuza and a few pages in between of Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke's bullshit. Notice the kunai sticking in his arms that weren't there when Zabuza rushed him. Kakashi was ****ing Zabuza up during Sakura's cry fest over Sasuke's "death".

Kakashi was only ever cut during his fight with Zabuza because he wanted to be to set up the nindogs. Even when he takes Kakashi somewhat by surprise, Kakashi disables his other arm as well.

You must be registered for see images

A little more knowledge than what he had going in to this fight(which all he didn't know about Part 1 Kakashi is that he had the dogs and raikiri) isn't going to change anything.

This fight is pretty much as old as the manga is itself, there are no real arguments left for it anymore. It's all been explored numerous times, and the evidence is clear each time, Kakashi is the superior of the two in a one on one fight.

 

[EZQ]

It is quite literally cannon that once Kakashi stopped fooling around, Zabuza wasn't really able to compete with him.

You must be registered for see images

This first panel comes from chapter 31 after Zabuza rushes Kakashi after he's killed Haku. Kakashi was done playing games at this point in the fight.

You must be registered for see images

This comes after Kakashi's kick to Zabuza and a few pages in between of Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke's bullshit. Notice the kunai sticking in his arms that weren't there when Zabuza rushed him. Kakashi was ****ing Zabuza up during Sakura's cry fest over Sasuke's "death".

Kakashi was only ever cut during his fight with Zabuza because he wanted to be to set up the nindogs. Even when he takes Kakashi somewhat by surprise, Kakashi disables his other arm as well.

You must be registered for see images

A little more knowledge than what he had going in to this fight(which all he didn't know about Part 1 Kakashi is that he had the dogs and raikiri) isn't going to change anything.

This fight is pretty much as old as the manga is itself, there are no real arguments left for it anymore. It's all been explored numerous times, and the evidence is clear each time, Kakashi is the superior of the two in a one on one fight.

Nope. First of all, i said full knowledge. Second of all, Kakashi states that in that state, Zabuza cannot beat him. "That state" refering to after Haku's death. And he onfirms it when he tells Naruto that he could feel Zabuza was in pain after Haku's death.

1- Full knowledge, the battle develops exactly like their second encounter

2- The difference is that, Zabuza won't be caught by the dogs because he knows he must not have any trace of Kakashi's blood on him, and he'd react to the sound the dogs made underground this time, with knowledge.

And Zabuza was the one fooling around, as numerous times he says "you've no way out Kakashi, let me enjoy this a little more". He dragged the fight out, which was his downfall. I'll adress this again tomorrow.

 

[Byakuren]

Nope. First of all, i said full knowledge. Second of all, Kakashi states that in that state, Zabuza cannot beat him. "That state" refering to after Haku's death. And he onfirms it when he tells Naruto that he could feel Zabuza was in pain after Haku's death.

He didn't say that in Viz. Viz > any other translation.

​

 

[EliteKakashi]

Nope. First of all, i said full knowledge. Second of all, Kakashi states that in that state, Zabuza cannot beat him. "That state" refering to after Haku's death. And he onfirms it when he tells Naruto that he could feel Zabuza was in pain after Haku's death.

1- Full knowledge, the battle develops exactly like their second encounter

2- The difference is that, Zabuza won't be caught by the dogs because he knows he must not have any trace of Kakashi's blood on him, and he'd react to the sound the dogs made underground this time, with knowledge.

And Zabuza was the one fooling around, as numerous times he says "you've no way out Kakashi, let me enjoy this a little more". He dragged the fight out, which was his downfall. I'll adress this again tomorrow.

Kakashi tells Zabuza "now there's no way you can beat me"(this the viz translation) after he's behind him, having grabbed his neck. It has nothing to do with Zabuza's mental state:

You must be registered for see images

Zabuza was showing no signs of his mental state being effected until Naruto spoke to him.

Zabuza was not the only one screwing around. Kakashi could have ended this fight after his hand was stabbed, he just chose to prolong it(plot induced stupidity I suppose). Kakashi notes quite clearly the only reason Zabuza even harmed him is because he wanted to be.

You must be registered for see images

There are no feats accomplished by Zabuza to make us think that he lays a hand on Kakashi in a full knowledge fight, regardless of how seriously he is or is not taking the fight.

As I pointed out, full knowledge only gives Zabuza knowledge of raikiri and nindogs. Which is pretty much irrelevant. Kakashi doesn't need to attack him with either.

There's also nothing I can find in the Viz translation where Kakashi comments on Zabuza's mental state during the fight, unless this is something that happened during the War Arc. Which I was pretty much skimming through the manga at that point in the series and haven't re-read it.

 

[EZQ]

It is quite literally cannon that once Kakashi stopped fooling around, Zabuza wasn't really able to compete with him.

You must be registered for see images

This first panel comes from chapter 31 after Zabuza rushes Kakashi after he's killed Haku. Kakashi was done playing games at this point in the fight.

You must be registered for see images

This comes after Kakashi's kick to Zabuza and a few pages in between of Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke's bullshit. Notice the kunai sticking in his arms that weren't there when Zabuza rushed him. Kakashi was ****ing Zabuza up during Sakura's cry fest over Sasuke's "death".

Kakashi was only ever cut during his fight with Zabuza because he wanted to be to set up the nindogs. Even when he takes Kakashi somewhat by surprise, Kakashi disables his other arm as well.

You must be registered for see images

A little more knowledge than what he had going in to this fight(which all he didn't know about Part 1 Kakashi is that he had the dogs and raikiri) isn't going to change anything.

This fight is pretty much as old as the manga is itself, there are no real arguments left for it anymore. It's all been explored numerous times, and the evidence is clear each time, Kakashi is the superior of the two in a one on one fight.

Ok. I was gonna make a thread about this like a year ago. Referring to what you said:

This fight is pretty much as old as the manga is itself, there are no real arguments left for it anymore. It's all been explored numerous times, and the evidence is clear each time, Kakashi is the superior of the two in a one on one fight.

I know the people on the base, specially in the vs threads, usually say things like this. So i'm posting my opinion on this. Basically, what i mean is that, Zabuza lost because he was overconfident and because of the lack of knowledge. How did this influence the result of the fight? Starting with

Him being overconfident:

Spoiler

Zabuza, tought he had Kakashi trapped like a bird on a cage. Because of this, he underrated kakashi, a lot, and made like his "revenge" on him. This was stated 2 times, for now i'll just post one.

You must be registered for see images

Lol the funny thing is that you want to make it sound like if Kakashi was the one playing around.

Zabuza was so confident on having completely destroyed the sharingan, that he says LET ME ENJOY THIS MORE, instead of instantly attacking the injured Kakashi right there.

You must be registered for see images

I don't think you need more evidence for this. Zabuza was the one playing around.

Here, the most important, CONFIDENT ON THE FACT THAT KAKASHI WAS "NULLIFIED", he even blindspots Kakashi, and doesn't attack him, lmao, he even warns him, instead of slicing him. And yes, Kakashi didn't notice it. Zabuza could've attacked him right here.

You must be registered for see images

What will you say now? Will you post the scans of Zabuza getting murked by Kakashi:

1- With no mist around
2- Zabuza being distracted by Haku's death

Here the scan for you

You must be registered for see images

So, we have:

-Zabuza stating he wanted to keep having fun
-Kakashi stating that Zabuza was playing around
-Zabuza blindspoting Kakashi, and not attacking him. Kakashi didn't react until Zabuza spoke
-The reason of what was stated above is pretty clear. Zabuza had Kakashi trapped like a bird in a cage and was playing. Except that he didn't know Kakashi could counter him, which leads us to the second problem

Lack of knowledge

Spoiler

With full knowledge from the beggining, three things would've been different

1- Zabuza would've stopped messing around since he knows that Kakashi can track him in the mist if he leaves a trace
2- He wouldn't have left a trace of blood on himself
3- He would have dodged the dogs. He didn't dodge them because he had his eyes closed in the mist, and only opened them once the dogs broke the ground. With knowledge, he can react and dodge just with the sound

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

It's more than clear, that Zabuza beats part 1 Kakashi. And Kakashi being superior? Tt's pretty clear that they are even in almost every stat, except that with full knowledge, Zabuza can blindspot Kakashi any time, as he did before, but this time, he wouldn't be messing around.

I just read your other post. No, Kakashi says you can't beat me NOW implying is not on conditions of beating him, after Haku's death.

No, Kakashi did not "start to take it serious" so started kicking Zabuza's ass. That makes no sense, when we know Zabuza and Kakashi are evenlt matched in physicall stats.

You must be registered for see links

Start reading from there and tell me if you really think Kakashi could be totally stomping Zabuza just like that. Also, major factor, THERE WASN'T ANY MIST EITHER. So that confirms it.

The anime version is translated from ear, and the subtitles of that moment are that it refers to Zabuza's current state. It's no only implied by Kakashi, but it's only logic. Even if the viz scan onle says "now"... the only difference between that Zabuza and the Zabuza that was kicking Kakashi's ass in their first encounter was their mental situation.

 

[EZQ]

He didn't say that in Viz. Viz > any other translation.

​

Bringing this BS again when i already adressed it on the other thread? It's obvious what Kakashi meant. And in the anime, where the subtitles are made from what it's heard, the translation also talks about Zabzua's current state at that time. And even if it isn't, it's pretty clear. Or will you say Kakashi suddenly powered up to the point he takes a shit on Zabuza? Lmfao.

 

[Byakuren]

Bringing this BS again when i already adressed it on the other thread? It's obvious what Kakashi meant. And in the anime, where the subtitles are made from what it's heard, the translation also talks about Zabzua's current state at that time. And even if it isn't, it's pretty clear. Or will you say Kakashi suddenly powered up to the point he takes a shit on Zabuza? Lmfao.

Yeah. You look like the type of idiot to rely on the anime. Next you'll say the manga is read from left to right. You can't add your own interpretation to something that's already interpreted. It doesn't work like that.

​

 

[EZQ]

Yeah. You look like the type of idiot to rely on the anime. Next you'll say the manga is read from left to right. You can't add your own interpretation to something that's already interpreted. It doesn't work like that.

​

It was for aiding the argument. As i already adressed, it still doesn't matter. The viz scan refers to the same. But of course, you don't have an argument.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

kakashi already beat this guy twice with handicaps, giving him full knowledge and no team to babysit just makes it worse.

 

[EZQ]

kakashi already beat this guy twice with handicaps, giving him full knowledge and no team to babysit just makes it worse.

Again with this BS? Lmao. What bothers me is that you have the nerve to use this lame ass argument when it was shut down in 2 threads already.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Again with this BS? Lmao. What bothers me is that you have the nerve to use this lame ass argument when it was shut down in 2 threads already.

What bothers me is the fact that despite kakashi winning 3 times against this guy who had help youre still trying to think of ways that zabuza wins. Like fam.

 

[TheSages456]

1- Sound 4. Zabuza has full knowledge. Sound 4 have none.

The S4 have no way of clearing the mist. Tayuya's genjutsu could catch him potentially if she uses everyone as a meat shield while she uses it. There isn't any reason why this would dispel the mist though and after the genjutsu ends, she dies. I see them all getting picked off as more likely though.

2- Darui. Full knowledge for both

No counter to Zabuza's Silent Killing.

3- Hidan. Full knowledge for both

No counter to Silent Killing. Gets decapitated.

4- Kimimaro. CM2 is restricted. Full knowledge for both

Kimimaro's bone mask could provide resistance against Zabuza's attacks. Zabuza does have ranged techniques that he can use, but he can't hurt Kimimaro. Zabuza has no incentive to get close and Kimimaro has no sensing ability or method of scouting Zabuza's location. Zabuza probably wins since he is the only one that could feasibly go on the offensive.

5- Part 1 Kakashi. Full knowledge from the start on both sides this time (yes it makes a difference)

Kakashi probably wins. Kakashi can just engage Zabuza before the mist gets too thick, then it's just a repeat of what happened in the manga, with Kakashi marking Zabuza with his own blood.

6- Ginkkaku or Kinkkaku . Zabuza has full knowledge. The duo has none. Bijuu chakra is restricted. He fights only 1 of them.

With no Biju chakra, either of them die to Silent Killing.

Edit: Actually, Kinkaku can win due to the Bashosen if his Wind release can blow away the mist. A competent user of the 5 elements is probably too much for Zabuza to handle.

7- Part 1 Kabuto. Zabuza has no knowledge. Kabuto has full knowledge

No counter to Silent Killing.

8- Yamato. Zabuza knows about Mokuton. Yamato knows about sillent killing

Yamato could protect himself in a cage made of Mokuton to avoid Silent Killing. He could send out Mokuton clones outside the cage while keeping them attached to himself to pinpoint Zabuza's location if he kills one of them or he can turn his clones into seeds and scatter them around the cage, so they get planted into Zabuza's shoes if he got close. That way, he would always be aware of his position. Yamato has the better chance of winning.

9- Vote 1 Sasuke. Zabuza knows Sasuke has sharingan and a cursed seal. Sasuke has his previous knowledge on him.

Sasuke still has no counter to Silent Killing.