[VS] Zombie duo Takes The Gauntlet

Forbidden Technique

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
3,762
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
3 tomoe war arc Kakashi soloing the zombie duo? FT, you're really underestimating the zombie duo, i know you dislike them,but this claim is ridiculouss. And the bold is false.
I never said it was a definite, which should of been made clear by my specific word usage. Bold is not false, Kakashi outright stated that he was running out of chakra like half way through that fight. Plus, he doesn't need to worry about protecting Chouji, Shikamaru, and Ino here either. He'll definitely put up a much, much better fight in this scenario. And how are you going to imply I'm being biased when I gave them the fight against the Trollkage, and share nearly the same exact opinion as the majority in this thread. I call it like I see it.
 
Last edited:

EZQ

Active member
Elite
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
7,291
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I never said it was a definite, which should of been made clear by my specific word usage. Bold is not false, Kakashi outright stated that he was running out of chakra like half way through that fight. Plus, he doesn't need to worry about protecting Chouji, Shikamaru, and Ino here either. He'll definitely put up a much, much better fight in this scenario. And how are you going to imply I'm being biased when I gave them the fight against the Trollkage, and share nearly the same exact opinion as the majority in this thread. I call it like I see it.
He had enough chakra to perform at least two kamuis when Naruto came to rescue (he said he'd be forced to use Kamui and then end in the hospital, meaning that he'd have used kamui on Kakuzu's attack and then obviously, kill Kakuzu with kamui too, since i doubt Kakuzu would've let him go to the hospital). Even after that he stil performed sunshin and raikiri two more times.

If that's not enough chakra to at least keep his sunshin close to his max level, then only a 100% chakra replenished kakashi can use a 100% fast sunshin?

And "protecting" them but still, one of them soloed an akatsuki for him. Tho i agree that if they're not there, Kakashi takes a more tactical route".. probably would've stayed hidden after the Atsugai dodge, instead of coming out and save them from gian. Still, don't forget the scan i posted in the other thread, Kakuzu wasn't even going all out, he showed 3 stages of his transformation, and with the second one he grabbed Kakashi instantly and Kakashi stated "fast" (clearly noting a speed increase in his attacks) and then he goes phase 3 against Naruto and Yamato notes how much chakra Kakuzu is kneading (and Naruto also mentions Kakuzu's speed, which hadn't been mentioned when he was in phase 1, facing Kakashi at the beggining).

Hell Kakuzu was underestimating them a lot. And one of his hearts got taken down by Shikamaru's plan, which wouldn't happen with Kakashi in a 1v1.

And i never called you biased FT. I mentioned that i know you dislike them, and i see it reflected on this statement, nothing else. I agree on your other assertions hence i didn't mention them.
 

Booker

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
8,352
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I never said it was a definite, which should of been made clear by my specific word usage. Bold is not false, Kakashi outright stated that he was running out of chakra like half way through that fight. Plus, he doesn't need to worry about protecting Chouji, Shikamaru, and Ino here either. He'll definitely put up a much, much better fight in this scenario. And how are you going to imply I'm being biased when I gave them the fight against the Trollkage, and share nearly the same exact opinion as the majority in this thread. I call it like I see it.
@Bold Yes he said this, but he didn't state it was the reason the Zombie duo was applying pressure. It's actually the reverse; Kakashi was out of stamina because the Immortal Duo were good enough to apply constant pressure. Which isn't a knock on Kakashi, for all intents and purposes Kakashi DID get the drop on Kakuzu and then would have cleaned up Hidan without Kakuzu there to apply pressure. He simply didn't have intel on Kakuzu's hearts, so Kakuzu survived. Kakashi managing to survive the assault from Hidan and Kakuzu is actually pretty impressive.

All this to say I actually agree with your premise that Zabuza and WA Kakashi have the potential to win. Kakashi is not soloing without MS, though.
 

Brother Numpsay

Active member
Elite
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
7,879
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
why does kakuzu even need to counter it?
Because Mirages will constantly divert their attention away from the orignal? A continuous flank means Hidan eventually gets dismembered by Joki and Kakuzu isn't tanking too many explosions, while at the same time none of his jutsu can put the clone down.
 

super yang

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
4,204
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Because Mirages will constantly divert their attention away from the orignal? A continuous flank means Hidan eventually gets dismembered by Joki and Kakuzu isn't tanking too many explosions, while at the same time none of his jutsu can put the clone down.
oh ok, I forget that people try to argue that joki boi & mist genjutsu can be used simultaneously

but kakuzu can still outlast gengetsu as even if joki boi can hurt him(it can't imo) he can just go underground in 3 parts w/ the 2 other parts going airborne.
 

Brother Numpsay

Active member
Elite
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
7,879
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
but kakuzu can still outlast gengetsu
Dont think so. Kakuzu gets drain attempting to figure out a way to counter the genjutsu, as his only feats is element firepower to cover range. While we have a clone that can explode infinite amount of times, which packs more or = to of Deidara C2 bombs.


as even if joki boi can hurt him(it can't imo) he can just go underground in 3 parts w/ the 2 other parts going airborne.
As I mentioned before no way Domu is tanking multiple C2-like explosion (base on the fact that it obliterated Sand Pyramid). Airborne gets sniped by waterbullets from the shadows. And eventually Kakuzu has to come back up and fight...

Gonna sleep
 

Forbidden Technique

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
3,762
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
He had enough chakra to perform at least two kamuis when Naruto came to rescue (he said he'd be forced to use Kamui and then end in the hospital, meaning that he'd have used kamui on Kakuzu's attack and then obviously, kill Kakuzu with kamui too, since i doubt Kakuzu would've let him go to the hospital). Even after that he stil performed sunshin and raikiri two more times.

If that's not enough chakra to at least keep his sunshin close to his max level, then only a 100% chakra replenished kakashi can use a 100% fast sunshin?

And "protecting" them but still, one of them soloed an akatsuki for him. Tho i agree that if they're not there, Kakashi takes a more tactical route".. probably would've stayed hidden after the Atsugai dodge, instead of coming out and save them from gian. Still, don't forget the scan i posted in the other thread, Kakuzu wasn't even going all out, he showed 3 stages of his transformation, and with the second one he grabbed Kakashi instantly and Kakashi stated "fast" (clearly noting a speed increase in his attacks) and then he goes phase 3 against Naruto and Yamato notes how much chakra Kakuzu is kneading (and Naruto also mentions Kakuzu's speed, which hadn't been mentioned when he was in phase 1, facing Kakashi at the beggining).

Hell Kakuzu was underestimating them a lot. And one of his hearts got taken down by Shikamaru's plan, which wouldn't happen with Kakashi in a 1v1.

And i never called you biased FT. I mentioned that i know you dislike them, and i see it reflected on this statement, nothing else. I agree on your other assertions hence i didn't mention them.
Kakashi wasn't shown to be capable to warp such a large scale technique at that point. If he was going to use Kamui, it would of likely landed on Kakuzu, before he uses his jutsu. This doesn't change the fact that Kakashi was still worrying about his chakra usage mid-way through that fight, which only means he had begun to exhaust himself. You can't refute that.

WA Kakashi received a ridiculous boost in chakra, where he was practically spamming his MS, in additional to using Kage Bunshins and Raikiri numerous times. It would be as simple as avoiding Atsugai (and/or the Fire combo) with Hiding Like a Mole, and surfacing with a Raiton Bunshin like he did to Pain. Once Kakuzu paralyzes himself, Kakashi takes out his heart(s). Meanwhile, Hidan is occupied by Zabuza or in the scenario of a solo, another one of Kakashi's bunshins. Kakuzu was canonically clone feinted twice in a row by Naruto, he is going to have an extremely tough time with a genius tactician like Kakashi.

Disliking them is going a bit too far. At least, I don't dislike Kakuzu. It may seem that way only because I find their core fanbase to be ridiculous and annoyingly delusional.

@Bold Yes he said this, but he didn't state it was the reason the Zombie duo was applying pressure. It's actually the reverse; Kakashi was out of stamina because the Immortal Duo were good enough to apply constant pressure. Which isn't a knock on Kakashi, for all intents and purposes Kakashi DID get the drop on Kakuzu and then would have cleaned up Hidan without Kakuzu there to apply pressure. He simply didn't have intel on Kakuzu's hearts, so Kakuzu survived. Kakashi managing to survive the assault from Hidan and Kakuzu is actually pretty impressive.

All this to say I actually agree with your premise that Zabuza and WA Kakashi have the potential to win. Kakashi is not soloing without MS, though.
@ bold, not true. Chouji asked if Kakashi was alright, immediately after clashing with Hidan. Kakashi's response was no, he wasn't alright, because of his over usage of Raikiri and the Sharingan [ ], not because of the Zombie duo. Obviously implying he was running out of stamina, which explains why he was getting pressured throughout the whole fight. He wasted two Raikiri's protecting Chouji and Shikamaru, which again, has nothing to do with the duo pressuring himself. The other two were wasted due to Kakashi's lack of knowledge on Kakuzu.

It's a complete different scenario with WA Kakashi's stamina buff, plus intel.
 
Last edited:

ToshiZO

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
4,657
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
You must be registered for see images


"Chouji asked if Kakashi was alright, immediately after clashing with Hidan. Kakashi's response was no" what?
 

EZQ

Active member
Elite
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
7,291
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Kakashi wasn't shown to be capable to warp such a large scale technique at that point. If he was going to use Kamui, it would of likely landed on Kakuzu, before he uses his jutsu.
1- He had already warped deidara's esplosion
2- No, he was going to warp the attack. Naruto stepped in and Kakashi still hadn't used it. If it were the case, Naruto arriving and Kakashi using kamui would've overlapped in time

This doesn't change the fact that Kakashi was still worrying about his chakra usage mid-way through that fight, which only means he had begun to exhaust himself. You can't refute that.
I'm not. He was exhausted. But that doesn't mean he can't go at full speed for a sunshin if he at least had enough chakra to use raikiri and planning to use kamui.

WA Kakashi received a ridiculous boost in chakra, where he was practically spamming his MS, in additional to using Kage Bunshins and Raikiri numerous times. It would be as simple as avoiding Atsugai (and/or the Fire combo) with Hiding Like a Mole, and surfacing with a Raiton Bunshin like he did to Pain. Once Kakuzu paralyzes himself,
I agree until the parallyzing point. Kakuzu doesn't need to let the clone get even close to be paralyzed, and also, Kakuzu doesn't have muscles or blood. The contraction that electricity generates won't be happening here. (Or maybe it does, i admit i'm making asssumptions about Kakuzu's body), but still it's not my point. If hidan is there, he'll be the one most likely getting parallyzed, and as soon Kakuzu notices it, he shots atsugai against the parallyzed Hidan to avoid any approach of Kakashi to slice the parallyzed hidan (tho Hidan being able to move without a spine makes me also suspect that he wouldn't be parallyzed but i won't go that way).
Kakashi takes out his heart(s). Meanwhile, Hidan is occupied by Zabuza
Meh i was arguing for Kakashi trying to solo this. But without the mist, i doubt Zabuza can be a match to Hidan. Also another point where i disagree, let's suppose Kakuzu is indeed parallyzed, why would the hearts be parallyzed too? If his body is immobilized, the masks beats which are made of threads, can still protect him, and blast an attack against the approaching Kakashi.
or in the scenario of a solo, another one of Kakashi's bunshins. Kakuzu was canonically clone feinted twice in a row by Naruto, he is going to have an extremely tough time with a genius tactician like Kakashi.
Agreed on Kakashi outsmarting him. But to me it was bullshit that Kakuzu ignored the clones when he could've just whiped them out to make sure... but oh well, an explanation to me is that he was already going low on chakra too. And after killing Naruto he still had too fight another 6 shinobis.

Anyways FT. You have to consider that Kakuzu's full abilities were not shown. When he finally went all out, and upgraded the speed of his attacks, and gathered more chakra, he only had 2 masks left. Kakashi approaching Kakuzu in that state seems almost impossible to me, considering Hidan is also around.

Disliking them is going a bit too far. At least, I don't dislike Kakuzu. It may seem that way only because I find their core fanbase to be ridiculous and annoyingly delusional.
Lol am i included in this group? Because i feel like there's like 3 people who support them.
 

Forbidden Technique

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
3,762
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
1- He had already warped deidara's esplosion
2- No, he was going to warp the attack. Naruto stepped in and Kakashi still hadn't used it. If it were the case, Naruto arriving and Kakashi using kamui would've overlapped in time

I'm not. He was exhausted. But that doesn't mean he can't go at full speed for a sunshin if he at least had enough chakra to use raikiri and planning to use kamui.
Yeah, you have good points. I'll concede here.

What does this even imply? The fact that he was beginning to exhaust himself, means his reflexes were regressing. I'm sure he could continue to shunshin in order to avoid Kakuzu's attacks, but he is not shunshin blitzing Kakuzu head on with a Raikiri, if that's what you're implying.

I agree until the parallyzing point. Kakuzu doesn't need to let the clone get even close to be paralyzed, and also, Kakuzu doesn't have muscles or blood. The contraction that electricity generates won't be happening here. (Or maybe it does, i admit i'm making asssumptions about Kakuzu's body), but still it's not my point. If hidan is there, he'll be the one most likely getting parallyzed, and as soon Kakuzu notices it, he shots atsugai against the parallyzed Hidan to avoid any approach of Kakashi to slice the parallyzed hidan (tho Hidan being able to move without a spine makes me also suspect that he wouldn't be parallyzed but i won't go that way).

Meh i was arguing for Kakashi trying to solo this. But without the mist, i doubt Zabuza can be a match to Hidan. Also another point where i disagree, let's suppose Kakuzu is indeed parallyzed, why would the hearts be parallyzed too? If his body is immobilized, the masks beats which are made of threads, can still protect him, and blast an attack against the approaching Kakashi.
Kakuzu doesn't have a choice, when Kakashi can surface from below the ground literally right in front of him, or in back, or wherever he wants. Um, we know for a fact Kakuzu has blood. Kakashi extracted it. Muscles? Don't know, nor does it matter. Asura Paths anatomy isn't that of an ordinary human being, yet that didn't make a difference. Tbh, I can see Hidan being caught off guard and rendered immobile by Kakashi's Doton Dog Summoning like he did to Zabuza. While Kakashi, simultaneously handles Kakuzu with Bunshin feints, and Raiton combos.

If Kakuzu is getting paraylyzed, I see Kakashi swiftly capitalizing by taking out his heart. The remaining hearts roaming freely out of his body canonically go straight to his aid, ignoring everything. Using their elemental jutsu while Kakuzu is "dead" is not canonically supported, and even if it was, it is still risking damaging Kakuzu even further.

Agreed on Kakashi outsmarting him. But to me it was bullshit that Kakuzu ignored the clones when he could've just whiped them out to make sure... but oh well, an explanation to me is that he was already going low on chakra too. And after killing Naruto he still had too fight another 6 shinobis.

Anyways FT. You have to consider that Kakuzu's full abilities were not shown. When he finally went all out, and upgraded the speed of his attacks, and gathered more chakra, he only had 2 masks left. Kakashi approaching Kakuzu in that state seems almost impossible to me, considering Hidan is also around.

Lol am i included in this group? Because i feel like there's like 3 people who support them.
Earth Grudge Fear Kakuzu still got feinted by Bunshins. I don't see how Kakashi and Bunshins couldn't handle it, especially being faster and smarter then that version of Naruto. Two Raiton Bunshins, using Raikiri chain should get the job done, while the real Kakashi approaches his back side. Again, I'm not saying this is a definite win for Kakashi. Simply, it is certainly debatable.

I'm replying to you, aren't I? Lol.
 

EZQ

Active member
Elite
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
7,291
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Yeah, you have good points. I'll concede here.

What does this even imply? The fact that he was beginning to exhaust himself, means his reflexes were regressing. I'm sure he could continue to shunshin in order to avoid Kakuzu's attacks, but he is not shunshin blitzing Kakuzu head on with a Raikiri, if that's what you're implying.
What i'm implying is that Kakashi had enough chakra for Kamui still. So even at that point of the fight, i doubt his sunshin, which is a basic skill, which enhaces his speed (which is aided by stamina, which is converted chakra, or viceversa), would be low. Kakashi having chakra to perform at least 2 kamuis tells me that he being tired doesn't mean that his speed was far from it's max. Meaning that if Kakashi had all his stamina, he probably would've gotten blitzed anyways, when Kakuzu used his phase 2. That's my point.


Kakuzu doesn't have a choice, when Kakashi can surface from below the ground literally right in front of him, or in back, or wherever he wants
And this is where my main point factors in. Imagine Kakuzu like this, but with all 4 masks. The clone would get killed, and the ligthining would get blown away, not parallyzing him.
You must be registered for see images

. Um, we know for a fact Kakuzu has blood. Kakashi extracted it. Muscles? Don't know, nor does it matter. Asura Paths anatomy isn't that of an ordinary human being, yet that didn't make a difference.
Ok i concede here

Tbh, I can see Hidan being caught off guard and rendered immobile by Kakashi's Doton Dog Summoning like he did to Zabuza.
Zabuza got caught of guard because he had his eyes closed. Even Kakashi admits it (and i'll post the scan if necesary). Zabuza heard the noise but he had his eyes closed so he didn't know what was happening, he only oppened his eyes when the ground was broken, and was late to dodge. Hidan's reflexes and speed are arguably on Zabuza's level when it comes to sunshin, so his movement speed is enough to dodge, he won't have closed eyes like Zabuza. Plus if Hidan is ever trapped like this, Kakuzu shoots an elemental attack at him which he'd survive, but the clones wont, and we're back at it with a 2 v 1 again.
While Kakashi, simultaneously handles Kakuzu with Bunshin feints, and Raiton combos.

If Kakuzu is getting paraylyzed, I see Kakashi swiftly capitalizing by taking out his heart. The remaining hearts roaming freely
Okay this is the main point where we disagree. I alreayd adressed how i think Kakuzu should fight, and it's not with his hearts roaming free, specially with knowledge. First scan i posted, with 2+ masks is how he'd be fighting. They're a sack of threads, and i doubt they'd get parralyzed.
out of his body canonically go straight to his aid, ignoring everything. Using their elemental jutsu while Kakuzu is "dead" is not canonically supported, and even if it was, it is still risking damaging Kakuzu even further.
I mean them attacking at the real Kakashi while Kakuzu is parallyzed, not after Kakashi already Killed him, in the time gap where the lightining clone paralyzes Kakuzu and the real Kakashi comes to kill him.

Earth Grudge Fear Kakuzu still got feinted by Bunshins. I don't see how Kakashi and Bunshins couldn't handle it, especially being faster and smarter then that version of Naruto.
But this would be a stronger version of Kakuzu, having 2 more masks to begin with, he can cover every single of his flanks.

Two Raiton Bunshins, using Raikiri chain should get the job done, while the real Kakashi approaches his back side. Again, I'm not saying this is a definite win for Kakashi. Simply, it is certainly debatable.

I'm replying to you, aren't I? Lol.
I don't consider my arguments lame when it comes to Kakuzu, specially comparing them to some bullshit some other supporters can reach.

I see your point about this matchup, but i don't see most of those tactics somply working against a kakuzu in a better condition than the one Kakashi fought, and with Hidan around.
 
Last edited:

Blunt

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
4,498
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
1) Zombies win.

2) Sasuke can solo, has far superior speed, reactions and with 3T, CqC with these two would be cake. He shreds them with Chidori variants. He also has some summons at his disposal.

3) Gengetsu loses, Kakazu could most likely solo.

4) Raikage with no difficulty.

5) Kisame has Samehada at his disposal, that is trouble for Kakazu. Once things like GSB or WD come out, it should be over.

6, 7 and 8) All wreck the duo.
 
Last edited:

Zexion~

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
17,100
Kin
21💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Dont think so. Kakuzu gets drain attempting to figure out a way to counter the genjutsu, as his only feats is element firepower to cover range. While we have a clone that can explode infinite amount of times, which packs more or = to of Deidara C2 bombs.




As I mentioned before no way Domu is tanking multiple C2-like explosion (base on the fact that it obliterated Sand Pyramid). Airborne gets sniped by waterbullets from the shadows. And eventually Kakuzu has to come back up and fight...

Gonna sleep
Isn't Joki a suiton?


Immortals were the reason Kakashi needed to use his 3T and Raikiri so often lol it was their pressure that was causing it so either way you look at it THEY caused it....kind of pointless to argue otherwise. If people are trying to argue that all Kakashi had in him during the arc was enough stamina to blitz Kakuzu once than oh boy :lol he caught him off guard because he didn't know he was there in a straight on battle Kakashi never touches Kakuzu.
 
Top