BenjerminGaye
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see how different that is from this:
Asuma managed to force Kisame to stop CQC with him and resort to ninjutsu.
Get that implication of force outta here. A holding back kisame switches to ninjutsu. Such a feat.
[VS] Kabuto and Asuma Vs Neji and Kakashi
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Asuma managed to force Kisame to stop CQC with him and resort to ninjutsu.
Get that implication of force outta here. A holding back kisame switches to ninjutsu. Such a feat.
You realize Itachi telling Kisame to hold back makes matters even worse considering he resorted to a water dragon which is less holding back than simply shredding Asuma with samehada.
It is but its, trivial like I said. Arguing semantics not worth arguing over in a thread where I'm focusing on Asuma's portrayal and feats.
BenjerminGaye
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Lmfao bruh stop skewing shit. Using a large scale water jutsu will attract more attention to the pair than simply dealing with Asuma in CQC quietly.
Holding back doesn't work in favour of your argument by any stretch. Since he was going for a bigger scale after engaging in CQC he essentially was going harder when he resorted to ninjutsu.
This is absolute garbage logic, which isn't surprising considering you continually post some of the most moronic stuff I've ever seen on this site.
"I do not care that power creep is a thing and that Part 1 feats are irrelevant when proved incorrect by Part 2 feats" Uh, ok? Thanks for admitting that you're in the wrong.
Samehada has absolutely nothing to do with Kisame's speed feats in that fight avoiding Bee's strikes. Samehada blocked multiple attacks from Bee, but that's only because Kisame manuevered it into position and got out of the way in order to block the strike.
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Now, let's play "How stupid can Toshi make himself look". I'm placing all my bets on "pretty damn stupid" since I can guarantee you're going to try and argue that those aren't reaction feats for Kisame, despite him directly positioning and maneuvering Samehada into place as well as dodging Raiton fueled attacks at point blank range.
If you don't believe that, why was this one of your initial points at the start of your argument?
If you're admitting that that's a worthless and baseless statement that you aren't arguing for any longer, I'll accept your concession.
Get this trash out of my face, I already dealt with this, and you come back with it.
First of all we aren't arguing Part 2 Kisame vs Asuma you moron. You were whining about Asuma having no feats and I brought feats, so stop crying about power creep and what not cause it has nothing to do with anything.
Samehada against Bee =/= Samehada against Asuma. ****ing guy it says it right there "the sword parried" open your eyes.
The first scan where he had to sacrifice an injury to block a Bee lunging at him and the scan where he dodged the pencil are it. The rest of that fight was because of how Samehada works, not because Kisame's CQC skills are above MS Sasuke or someshit. You seriously need to stop posting, and stick to just making threads.
My goodness, buddy I was bringing forth portrayal and hype for Asuma to back some of his feats from looking like outliers. You clearly don't know how this works, portrayal and hype =/= feats.
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Forbidden Technique
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You're waisting your time G. Ol boy hates Kisame so much its an obsession, look at how mad he's getting LOL.
Power creep is the crux of this whole argument. The fact that you don't understand this is concerning and makes me feel sorry for you.
Any feats that Asuma displayed against a Part 1 Kisame that was essentially retconned in Part 2 are irrelevant to this discussion. All those feats were conducted on the Part 1 scale against Part 1 characters, meaning they cannot be compared to their improved Part 2 counter parts. This whole discussion started when you stated that Asuma blocking Kisame was impressive because a 30% Kisame had "monster strength" according to Guy. That's you taking Part 1 events and relating them to their vastly superior Part 2 counter parts. You are being a massive hypocrite with that argument. If you want to tote around Asuma blocking Part 1 Kisame's strike as a massively impressive feat... I don't know what to tell you. More power to you, I guess. You'll look stupid doing it.
Again, avoiding the entire argument because you know you're wrong and that I'm right. Samehada has nothing to do with Kisame's speed feats and maneuvers in those scans above. If you had any attention to detail you would notice that Kisame actually maneuvered Samehada into that position in order to parry, and then struck with Samehada upwards to steal Bee's chakra. He starts with Samehada on his left side, swings it down and to the right in order to parry, and then strikes upwards to steal Bee's chakra. Don't accuse me of not paying attention to the scans when you miss the blatant actions and movements of the characters.
Those are all reaction feats for Kisame.
Addressed above, and even then those speed feats that you already accept are leagues above what Asuma can hope to display.
I actually make better posts than I do threads, to be honest. I don't think my threads through too often once I think of a cool match up and they end up being stomps lol.
Bad Touch Yakushi
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If Kakashi has Kamui then this is obviously one sided but the idea that Neji can solo...or alone defeat Asuma...insane.
Not even gonna comment on Kabuto's inclusion.
Not even gonna comment on Kabuto's inclusion.
My goodness and I didn't think you could get worse.
Even if Kisame was hit with a retcon, I didn't bring up a 100% Kisame I brought up a 30% Kisame and showed you his strength. Asuma blocking a part 1 100% Kisame samehada swing IS a strength feat for Asuma, holy shit you can't just ignore things because you don't like them.
Asuma has like minimal panel time, and a guy brings in speed feats and strength feats for him to someone crying about him lacking them, and then he denies them....
I seriously hope the majority of this community does not argue VS like this, because it is downright ridiculous.
Lmfao this guy. Just stop, you said Kisame > MS Sasuke in CQC because he fared better than him against Bee in CQC, please don't lecture me on what Kisame was doing in that matchup. You brought up horrible A>B>C logic, and you will get called out for it. Simple as that.
BenjerminGaye
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Thats the thing. It isn't large scale. WE know full well what large scale is for kisame. He can as has literally created 1000 of those. Yet for some reason you consider it large scale.
When Itachi told Kisame to hold back, Kisame didn't take it as, "let me go easy on them in CQC", that makes no sense.
He took it as, "let me not draw any attention so that backup doesn't come." Kisame could go full out in CQC it has nothing to do with holding back.
He was told to take it easy on the bigger attacks, because his arsenal attracts too much attention specifically his ninjutsu.
By him resorting to ninjutsu that automatically goes against this, as it attracts more attention than CQC. It wasn't his biggest attack, but it was definitely more than a CQC fight.
Here's the viz btw, it backs what I just said.
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And I never used it as a reference, common sense really.
Kisame simply became impatient.
BenjerminGaye
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Lmfao holy......
Listen, I'm gonna explain it again.
-He was holding back as a whole. Meaning he was not using his higher end moves.
-Him using CQC IS him holding back in a general sense. But he's not holding back his CQC itself, whatever that means that wouldn't accomplish anything, and makes zero sense.
-In terms of not holding back (drawing attention) GSB > WD > 1000 sharks > 1 shark bomb > Kenjutsu
-So by him going a level higher from kenjutsu to his water style, he draws more attention.
You tried to downplay Asuma by saying (implication) somehow he was holding back in CQC.
Here:
That makes no sense, and serves no purpose to even bring up when we are strictly talking about Asuma's CQC feats, not how he stacks up to Kisame's full arsenal.
Now I'll summarize it for the final time, so this can be put to bed.
Kisame was holding back when he was fighting Asuma.
Kisame was NOT holding back in CQC when he was fighting Asuma.
Those two things are not even remotely the same thing.
BenjerminGaye
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Assumption at best. With nothing to back it. Kisame is physically strong enough to rip chakra enhanced wood like butter at even at 30% outmuscle guy, A man who can literally punch holes in walls at base. Its clear as day that he held back in ALL aspects given the fact that he didn't sraight up overpower asuma when he blocked his sword.
Inb4 Asuma>Guy in strength
Lol @ people arguing with Tosh or whatever his name is and the point he's even dropping, sad to see but not all that surprising :lol. "Asuma managed to force Kisame to stop CQC with him and resort to ninjutsu" lmao, damn people still saying things like this at this stage and Kisame resorted to a stronger form of Ninjutsu. Didn't Asuma even pull out a Ninjutsu technique first?
Kisame already wounded Asuma in a CQC fight without Ninjutsu involved
Kisame battling and reacting to V1 B and even V2 yet Asuma (Lol) is being mentioned here. Itachi even told Kisame not to overdo it
OP: Team 2 takes this
There's an error initially but the description makes it clear that it's Ninjutsu. What Asuma resorted to first before Kisame's water style so now you can repeat that silly Ninjutsu sentence that has no meaning here.
Kisame already wounded Asuma in a CQC fight without Ninjutsu involved
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-- Having zero knowledge on Asuma's technique isn't an easy one to face from the start eve though Kisame easily evaded him. Asuma used Ninjutsu first.Kisame battling and reacting to V1 B and even V2 yet Asuma (Lol) is being mentioned here. Itachi even told Kisame not to overdo it
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--That obviously suggest he wasn't even going all out otherwise, Asuma would be fried meat when we have seen what a 30% Kisame was capable of doing to the like of Might Gai in a CQC that involved no Ninjutsu.OP: Team 2 takes this
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He wasn't aiming for Asuma, he was aiming at Kurenai when Asuma intercepted. Smh, you don't always go for your strongest swing every time you swing your blade. He could have been going for speed there since clearly Kurenai would be faster than she is physically strong.
it doesn't take anything away from Asuma, it's a strength feat for him (especially considering Kisame's strength which is why I used Gai being overpowered as a reference). And the entire point of me bringing up those feats were to give Asuma some feats in this thread for saying he was lacking feats. Really that simple, it didn't need to get turned into semantic warfare up here.
What a waste, literally unnecessary post right here.
It's ninjutsu that augments his weaponry AKA bukijutsu. Something along the lines of nintaijutsu. Not to mention it says taijutsu right there...smh.
It is a part of his CQC ability. You missed the point entirely. No need to come in here acting like some big shot, calm down.