[Discussion] I hope Oda never pulls Child of Prophecy/Incarnation of Ashura bs with Luffy ever

[Punk Hazard]

What a waste of my time to struggle through all of that.

Also yes the whole underlying plot was that Neji was convinced he was stuck on one track, I think there was even a bird and a cage metaphor in there somewhere. But the recurring theme of part one is that hard work beats talent. It was said numerous times, even in his last breath.

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None of this translates to "hard work is better than talent."

The caged bird metaphor was that Neji believed that one was trapped in whatever their circumstances of birth were. Naruto and Lee's goal was to prove that wrong, never to prove that talent was worth less than hard wokr.

Also your completely missing the point with the entire training thing. Fact is that everything Naruto did or became somehow was a parallel to a previous generation.

What? You need to go in depth with this premise, because it makes absolutely no sense. Naruto was paralleled to Minato's appearances, and when people saw his skill, which he achieved through working tirelessly, they said he might be the one to accomplish what Minato was unable to do. That's it.

His mom, his dad, Jiraiya (legendary trio) and his Senju blood. That he was born as a shitty ninja takes away nothing from that because otherwise the series would be over in 100 chapters if he also had great talent on top of that.

None of these gave Naruto freebies.

 

[Yubel]

For the record, after thinking about it for a while, I don't really have a problem with the Will of D.

Alot of D's have been introduced in the series and alot of them died without achieving anything big.

Even the son of the pirate king himself met his end so it doesn't look like being a D is any recipe for success.

However, I am concerned about the ability that Luffy has along with Roger and recently Momonosuke.

Also not a fan of the prediction stuff in Fishman Island about what's going to happen in the future, feels too similar to the child of prophecy crap in Naruto.

 

[Love Cook]

None of this translates to "hard work is better than talent."

The caged bird metaphor was that Neji believed that one was trapped in whatever their circumstances of birth were. Naruto and Lee's goal was to prove that wrong, never to prove that talent was worth less than hard wokr.


What? You need to go in depth with this premise, because it makes absolutely no sense. Naruto was paralleled to Minato's appearances, and when people saw his skill, which he achieved through working tirelessly, they said he might be the one to accomplish what Minato was unable to do. That's it.





None of these gave Naruto freebies.

God damn, it's not about freebies. It's ok if you don't understand but stop quoting me.

I said that everything Naruto did or became was a direct parallel to a previous generation. Don't deny it like you have some kind of argument here. Because everything I said checks out in the manga. So you might have a different opinion than I do on how foreshadowed and predestined Naruto's path is, but I'm not interested in that.

Because if Naruto was born as Choji's brother he would be fucked. He can train for a thousand years and Haku would still kill him on the bridge in arc one.

 

[Punk Hazard]

God damn, it's not about freebies. It's ok if you don't understand but stop quoting me.

I said that everything Naruto did or became was a direct parallel to a previous generation.

This means one thing and one thing only: What Naruto accomplished is comparable to what his predecessors accomplished. This doesn't diminish that he achieved it because of hard work, and not because of privilege.

 

[Love Cook]

This means one thing and one thing only: What Naruto accomplished is comparable to what his predecessors accomplished. This doesn't diminish that he achieved it because of hard work, and not because of privilege.

Yes it is !

As I said in my previous post. Naruto would never have saved the world if he was Choza's son.

I'm not diminishing the hard work and the achievements, but he was only able to get there because he was privileged in the first place.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yes it is !

As I said in my previous post. Naruto would never have saved the world if he was Choza's son.

I'm not diminishing the hard work and the achievements, but he was only able to get there because he was privileged in the first place.

No, he wouldn't, cuz then he wouldn't be Naruto anymore. The ****?

 

[Love Cook]

No, he wouldn't, cuz then he wouldn't be Naruto anymore. The ****?

I'm glad you finally saw the light.

Naruto is Naruto because he has a privileged heritage. If he would've had any other parents, he can put in all the hard work and training in the world and still achieve nothing.

End of the day he was gifted all his powers, the only thing he had to do was train them. Everyone around him opened the door for him, he only had to walk through it.

I'm outta here.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I'm glad you finally saw the light.

Naruto is Naruto because he has a privileged heritage. If he would've had any other parents, he can put in all the hard work and training in the world and still achieve nothing.

End of the day he was gifted all his powers, the only thing he had to do was train them. Everyone around him opened the door for him, he only had to walk through it.

I'm outta here.

It has nothing to do with heritage. Naruto's personality is one that drove him to work hard. He had the conviction, he had the creativity, he had the drive, to work hard enough to accomplish what he did.

You can't say it was the result of privilege by changing the character completely, because then you lose the conviction, creativity, and drive. Make him Choza's son and give him the same drive, conviction and creativity, then yes, he'd accomplish the same thing.

 

[Love Cook]

It has nothing to do with heritage. Naruto's personality is one that drove him to work hard. He had the conviction, he had the creativity, he had the drive, to work hard enough to accomplish what he did.

You can't say it was the result of privilege by changing the character completely, because then you lose the conviction, creativity, and drive.

Make him Choza's son and give him the same drive, conviction and creativity, then yes, he'd accomplish the same thing.

Lol dream on, you're just talking out of your ass now.

Just admit you were wrong, there is no shame in that.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lol dream on, you're just talking out of your ass now.

Just admit you were wrong, there is no shame in that.

As soon as you admit how nonsensical it is to say that Naruto's nonexistent privileges granted him his power.

 

[Love Cook]

As soon as you admit how nonsensical it is to say that Naruto's nonexistent privileges granted him his power.

I understand you're in too deep now, your ego doesn't tolerate it to say you were wrong. Trying to say that my argument is nonsensical while you were saying Choji 2.0 could do everything Naruto could do.

What a joke.

 

[Avani]

d

I'm glad you finally saw the light.

Naruto is Naruto because he has a privileged heritage. If he would've had any other parents, he can put in all the hard work and training in the world and still achieve nothing.

End of the day he was gifted all his powers, the only thing he had to do was train them. Everyone around him opened the door for him, he only had to walk through it.

I'm outta here.

And Luff isn't getting any edge because of being a "D."? A grandson of a senior Marine, son of a rebel leader, encouraged b a Yanko who bet his right hand on him when he was only 8 ear old kid and saved his life twice, Kuma who just decides to send him and his friends where it will suit them and then guards their ship for two years for convenience because he does that for all upcoming pirate kings, Okamas helping out of the blue because the leader was in his father's crew? ....Please. How many pirates have such connections to help them out in a pinch scattered all over?

Thing with Naruto was that he was not the only potential chosen one. But he got the right temperament to become one. That attitude helped him gather support and help. Hashirama could have been the one. He could manage all nine bijjus as his pets but he stopped there and couldn't make him trust him to tell their story. None but toads cared for the prophecy and even they had no idea who it could be. Minato and Nagato both were considered to be one for a short period. Also Old toad only said "meet the person with special eyes"- in Naruto world it couldn't be more vague seeing Kishimoto's eye fetish- Naruto's own eye change a lot. Uchiha and Huga patterns+ Nagato+ S06P+ kabuto/Oro ...So yes that's not much of a prophecy.

Naruto never got any Harry potter treatment based on a prophecy from the village. Most people ( but the toads) don't even know it and it was not repeated much either. He wouldn't get any help from anyone but for his own personality and persistence. And in a way he didn't solve the problem on his own but built on what other possible chosen ones and other good nins had done already.

Both the stories more or less are playing with the same trope. You can only argue who could pull this off better.

Or

Sanji turns out to be a prince and is pulling a Nico Robin at the moment( after Dressrosa retell Alabasta). Let see which one is more fun instead of worrying over their hero destiny.

 

[Dannie]

Nice going OP. You brought the Naruto defenders out.

 

[BLAZE]

i'm okay till i don't see luffy crying out loud Teach is the coolest guy since he also wanted to be Pirate King

Nice going OP. You brought the Naruto defenders out.

lml

 

[Avani]

Nice going OP. You brought the Naruto defenders out.

It's not their fault that some fans here prefer to swim in Denial and dislike facts.

 

[arv993]

As soon as you admit how nonsensical it is to say that Naruto's nonexistent privileges granted him his power.

Do u think the having the kyuubi is not a privilege or having uzumaki genes. Narutos efforts were cheapened when he had a goddamn ghost in him. Naruto is pretty lucky but in one piece genes don't hold the same weight they do in naruto.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Do u think the having the kyuubi is not a privilege or having uzumaki genes. Narutos efforts were cheapened when he had a goddamn ghost in him. Naruto is pretty lucky but in one piece genes don't hold the same weight they do in naruto.

That ghost did absolutely nothing to help him.

The Uzumaki genes helped his chakra pool, but that only took him so far.

Kurama only became beneficial once Naruto trained to control him.

 

[Love Cook]

That ghost did absolutely nothing to help him.

The Uzumaki genes helped his chakra pool, but that only took him so far.

Kurama only became beneficial once Naruto trained to control him.

Yeah it's not like the Kyuubi saved him countless times before he learned to control him

Saving the life of the host, pretty beneficial. But once again, you're blinded by your own arguments and it doesn't matter how wrong you are you're just sticking to it.

 

[arv993]

That ghost did absolutely nothing to help him.

The Uzumaki genes helped his chakra pool, but that only took him so far.

Kurama only became beneficial once Naruto trained to control him.

Only chakra pool lol that chakra pool helped him train 1000x faster to master jutsus. And yea the same large chakra pool that only .000001% of the ninja world have. Yea genes didn't matter a lot. Idk why u have the tendency to brush aside some of the major factors that would help him be more successful. Also his genes allow him to control tailed beasts better and he doesn't have automatic death after removal like what else do u want. He absolutely was born with a silver spoon.

 

[ToshiZO]

d

And Luff isn't getting any edge because of being a "D."? A grandson of a senior Marine, son of a rebel leader, encouraged b a Yanko who bet his right hand on him when he was only 8 ear old kid and saved his life twice, Kuma who just decides to send him and his friends where it will suit them and then guards their ship for two years for convenience because he does that for all upcoming pirate kings, Okamas helping out of the blue because the leader was in his father's crew? ....Please. How many pirates have such connections to help them out in a pinch scattered all over?

Thing with Naruto was that he was not the only potential chosen one. But he got the right temperament to become one. That attitude helped him gather support and help. Hashirama could have been the one. He could manage all nine bijjus as his pets but he stopped there and couldn't make him trust him to tell their story. None but toads cared for the prophecy and even they had no idea who it could be. Minato and Nagato both were considered to be one for a short period. Also Old toad only said "meet the person with special eyes"- in Naruto world it couldn't be more vague seeing Kishimoto's eye fetish- Naruto's own eye change a lot. Uchiha and Huga patterns+ Nagato+ S06P+ kabuto/Oro ...So yes that's not much of a prophecy.

Naruto never got any Harry potter treatment based on a prophecy from the village. Most people ( but the toads) don't even know it and it was not repeated much either. He wouldn't get any help from anyone but for his own personality and persistence. And in a way he didn't solve the problem on his own but built on what other possible chosen ones and other good nins had done already.

Both the stories more or less are playing with the same trope. You can only argue who could pull this off better.

Or

Sanji turns out to be a prince and is pulling a Nico Robin at the moment( after Dressrosa retell Alabasta). Let see which one is more fun instead of worrying over their hero destiny.

When Gol D Roger comes back from the dead to gift Luffy Pirate God mode, then we can talk.