[Discussion] I hope Oda never pulls Child of Prophecy/Incarnation of Ashura bs with Luffy ever

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Love Cook

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naruto controlled his own destiny.
No he didn't

In part 1 he was like hard work beats talent (remember the neji fight ?)
In Part 2 every power up he got was thrown into his lap thanks to some kind of heritage. Fox, Sage mode, Senju

He was destined to become hokage
He was destined to become a trio with Sakura and Sasuke just like Orochimaru, Jiraiya and Tsunade
He was destined to rival the Uchiha.

Kishimoto got a hard on every time Naruto had some kind connection or parallel to another generation or clan.

I agree with the opening post. I would hate it if there was any kind of link with roger, like a reincarnation, or if Roger had the same fruit. Or whatever.

Let Luffy be the boy from East Blue who conquered the world against all odds. Not because he was destined to... blegh.
 

LordRaikage

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No he didn't

In part 1 he was like hard work beats talent (remember the neji fight ?)
In Part 2 every power up he got was thrown into his lap thanks to some kind of heritage. Fox, Sage mode, Senju

He was destined to become hokage
He was destined to become a trio with Sakura and Sasuke just like Orochimaru, Jiraiya and Tsunade
He was destined to rival the Uchiha.

Kishimoto got a hard on every time Naruto had some kind connection or parallel to another generation or clan.

I agree with the opening post. I would hate it if there was any kind of link with roger, like a reincarnation, or if Roger had the same fruit. Or whatever.

Let Luffy be the boy from East Blue who conquered the world against all odds. Not because he was destined to... blegh.
He was destined to Rival Sasuke and only sasuke and rival means "to compete against" that's about it, and naruto is naturally a hyperactive guy who likes to compete against strong opponents to be in the spotlight as a kid hence he would rival sasuke who was the new top dog.

he wasn't destined to become a new trio.

Dude like do you even watch naruto?

"facepalm"

He was destined to kill sasuke.



Lmfao like WTf he wasn't destined to become hokage.

naruto made his own destiny
 
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Itachi Minato

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He was destined to Rival Sasuke and only sasuke and rival means "to compete against" that's about it, and naruto is naturally a hyperactive guy who likes to compete against strong opponents to be in the spotlight as a kid hence he would rival sasuke who was the new top dog.

he wasn't destined to become a new trio.

Dude like do you even watch naruto?

"facepalm"

He was destined to kill sasuke.



Lmfao like WTf he wasn't destined to become hokage.

naruto made his own destiny
What? Naruto was Ashuras reincarnation. He was destined for greatness. Kishi really killed naruto with that shit. I don't want that to happen but it wouldn't be as bad. We've known about the will of D for years, the reincarnation shit in naruto actually came out of no where. Seriously read the beginning of naruto who the **** thought that's where it's gonna go
 
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Guntah

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What? Naruto was Ashuras reincarnation. He was destined for greatness.
That is not necessarily true. Naruto and Hashirama are the only two transmigrates that we know of for Ashura, but there's at least a couple hundred years separating Ashura from Hashirama. In that time, there were more than one pairs transmigrates walking around, yet Madara and Hashirama are still the first we hear of, meaning the others, while possibly strong, didn't achieve anything big enough where their image resisted the test of time. It proves that being a Transmigrate is not an automatic pass to great things.
 

Guntah

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Oda is very unique and is a great artists. However, some One Piece character designs are major facepalm like this one:

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I don't care about his backstory. He has to take this L! :lmao:

:elmo:
You really gotta give him credit though. There are very little authors who could have one of their characters look like this and still pull off something actually emotional out of him.
 

Love Cook

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He was destined to Rival Sasuke and only sasuke and rival means "to compete against" that's about it, and naruto is naturally a hyperactive guy who likes to compete against strong opponents to be in the spotlight as a kid hence he would rival sasuke who was the new top dog.

he wasn't destined to become a new trio.

Dude like do you even watch naruto?

"facepalm"

He was destined to kill sasuke.



Lmfao like WTf he wasn't destined to become hokage.

naruto made his own destiny
I think you are the one that didn't really got it. Not even going to put more energy in explaining it to you because what I said was clear.

If you're not seeing it you're either in denial or stupid.

Also yes, I watched and read from beginning to end.

Naruto made shit, everything was handed to him on a silver platter. Sure he was the one to beat the big bad. But thanks daddy for the fox and the Rasengan. Thanks godfather Jiraiya for keeping the fox in check and Sage mode, thanks heritage for the Senju powers.
 
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SasoriOfTheRedSaand

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I think you are the one that didn't really got it. Not even going to put more energy in explaining it to you because what I said was clear.

If you're not seeing it you're either in denial or stupid.

Also yes, I watched and read from beginning to end.

Naruto made shit, everything was handed to him on a silver platter. Sure he was the one to beat the big bad. But thanks daddy for the fox and the Rasengan. Thanks godfather Jiraiya for keeping the fox in check and Sage mode, thanks heritage for the Senju powers.
While I agree that Naruto was destined to save the world (not really arguable, he's literally called the child of prophecy), the bold is stretching it a little. Rasengan and SM are techniques he had to train and master. He wasn't "handed" those things.
 

arv993

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naruto controlled his own destiny.
While I agree that Naruto was destined to save the world (not really arguable, he's literally called the child of prophecy), the bold is stretching it a little. Rasengan and SM are techniques he had to train and master. He wasn't "handed" those things.
Yea it's true but still doesn't change the fact that he is the child of prophecy and the indra and ashura dynamic really made the rest of the world fodders and these two as gods reincarnations. Naruto as a story took soooo many wrong turns it became way worse than what it was originally.
 

Love Cook

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While I agree that Naruto was destined to save the world (not really arguable, he's literally called the child of prophecy), the bold is stretching it a little. Rasengan and SM are techniques he had to train and master. He wasn't "handed" those things.
Yea of course he trained because otherwise it would be even more ridiculous. But if you think about it that he was the son of the 4th who invented the technique that he used to beat 99% of his enemies with. And the person who helped him master it was his godfather. And thank god Minato married a woman who had an ability to control the fox.

It just feels so lazy.

The Naruto world is such an small and incestuous world, everything stays within the family.

But my original point was that in part 1 Naruto was the so called hard worker who could beat the odds and the talented kids like Neji. I just summed it all up to prove that he got almost everything handed to him. Of course he needs to train and obtain it. But he wasn't the kid who beat all odds at the end of the series anymore. He was the kid who was destined to save the world.

I liked him better he was crying on the swings and Iruka had to get him back up. Because the moral of the story now is:

Is your dream to become the Hokage and everyone hates you and you have no ninja talent, better hope you have some privileges at birth because hard work doesn't beat talent after all.

That is the message to all other crying kids on swings across the world at the end of the Naruto story.
 

Itachi Minato

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Yea of course he trained because otherwise it would be even more ridiculous. But if you think about it that he was the son of the 4th who invented the technique that he used to beat 99% of his enemies with. And the person who helped him master it was his godfather. And thank god Minato married a woman who had an ability to control the fox.

It just feels so lazy.

The Naruto world is such an small and incestuous world, everything stays within the family.

But my original point was that in part 1 Naruto was the so called hard worker who could beat the odds and the talented kids like Neji. I just summed it all up to prove that he got almost everything handed to him. Of course he needs to train and obtain it. But he wasn't the kid who beat all odds at the end of the series anymore. He was the kid who was destined to save the world.

I liked him better he was crying on the swings and Iruka had to get him back up. Because the moral of the story now is:

Is your dream to become the Hokage and everyone hates you and you have no ninja talent, better hope you have some privileges at birth because hard work doesn't beat talent after all.

That is the message to all other crying kids on swings across the world at the end of the Naruto story.
This times 100
 
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Joking or not I do think Luffy could gain more fruits. We've seen that the 1 fruit per person is a myth(the fact that one person is able opens up the possibility of others as well) even if we don't understand how there is a chance. I always figured Luffy could survive because of the explanation of what happens; when you eat a 2nd fruit the "devils" fight and you explode but Luffy can expand and possibly expand beyond the exploding point thus surviving a 2nd fruit.
Well it's been theorized for awhile now that BB would get 3 fruits by EOS, he has the strongest Logia, he stole the strongest Paramecia and people expect he'll follow suit and attain the strongest Zoan at some point as well(No one's speculated what that Zoan would be though other than Kaidou's IF he even has one)
I've always though that too! If Oda ever gave Luffy a second fruit with the explanation of this being the reason why he was able to handle it, I'd be more than happy to accept it...
And there's already the theory of Blackbeards first fruit being a Chimera with 3 heads, which is why he's able to take 3 DF's, so if this turned out to be true, Blackbeard already has his 3 fruits.

I'm afraid oda is going that route with this whole "the family of D" gay shit
Hmm, what came out first, One Piece, or Naruto? And I wonder what was introduced first, "the family of D" or "the child of prophecy"? Since very early on, Oda has repeated mentioned the Will of D that he'd become a criminal if he didn't see it through with something. There's not going to be any reincarnation shite, I can tell you that much, but right from the start there has been similarities between certain characters, but that's all they're going to be, similarities, no destinies, no reincarnations, just simply likeliness.
 

Avani

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I don't know, I can see Oda go that route with the whole Will of D, and ability to hear all things that Luffy shares along with Roger.

Also interesting you mention Jesus because a great theory once suggested Joyboy could be based on Jesus, I'm not happy about this.
Too late -he is already part of mysterious D series that's bound to take care of the mystery. You better go with the flow instead of worrying over what is going to happen.
 

Punk Hazard

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He already did with the "D" bloodline being special.
It's not at all the same thing. The "D" bloodline isn't "special" in that they're destined to do anything. The "D" family has a particular set of personality traits to them that puts them at odds with the world power. There are Ds who work with the "enemy" of the stories, there are Ds that function as the "enemy," and there are Ds like Ace, Rogue, and Saul who died without taking part in this "special war."

Yea of course he trained because otherwise it would be even more ridiculous. But if you think about it that he was the son of the 4th who invented the technique that he used to beat 99% of his enemies with. And the person who helped him master it was his godfather. And thank god Minato married a woman who had an ability to control the fox.
You do realize it was stated time and time again that Naruto inherited NONE of the talent his parents had? The only thing Naruto got from either of his parents that benefited him in the long run was high chakra and stamina from his mother, and that didn't carry him, that just allowed him to train extensively for whatever he got.

But my original point was that in part 1 Naruto was the so called hard worker who could beat the odds and the talented kids like Neji. I just summed it all up to prove that he got almost everything handed to him
You just grossly misunderstood the whole "Neji destiny" thing. Kishi was never trying to saying that destiny doesn't exist with Naruto's conflict with Neji. Kishi was trying to convey that Neji's idea of destiny was false. The conflict wasn't based on "Destiny doesn't exist" "Yes it does!", the conflict was "Change" vs "Unable to change."

The conflict was never "Hard work beats talent." Hell, even Lee said he wanted to be as splendid as Sasuke and Neji, never that he was going to better. The conflict was that Neji kept saying that if you're ass right now, it means you don't have talent, and will never change from being ass, and Naruto and Lee wanted to prove that hard work IS JUST AS GOOD AS talent, and that if you're ass right now because you don't have talent, you can be as great as people with talent through hard work and changing what you are. Which is exactly what Naruto did.

All of the odds were against Naruto. He inherited none of his parents' talent. You mentioned his godfather trained him, but Jiraiya didn't train him because of that, so that doesn't matter. Even if Jiraiya DID choose to train Naruto because of who his parents were, that doesn't automatically mean that the training was easy. Naruto's teacher was Kakashi, who was also touted as a genius, and look how that went. Naruto's growth never piggybacked on who his parents or teachers were, it fell back on his actual work. You lot can cry and moan and ***** all you want about Naruto being the "Child of Prophecy," but it'll always remain a fact that if Naruto didn't train as hard as he did, he never would have fulfilled that prophecy. He would have simply died without accomplishing anything, and Ashura would have just started over again.

Of course he needs to train and obtain it. But he wasn't the kid who beat all odds at the end of the series anymore. He was the kid who was destined to save the world.
Naruto is the "Child of Prophecy."

A prophecy is a prediction. It's a guess. Someone long ago GUESSED that this what was supposed to happen, and Naruto brought it to life through training hard to defy the fact that he had zero talent. He had ZERO talent and trained anyways, and that's not beating the odds? You people just need to find something to whine about.

I liked him better he was crying on the swings and Iruka had to get him back up. Because the moral of the story now is:

Is your dream to become the Hokage and everyone hates you and you have no ninja talent, better hope you have some privileges at birth because hard work doesn't beat talent after all.
What privileges helped Naruto? Again, he got none of his parents' talent, so the privilege of them is out the window. Double this fact due to no one knowing he was their son, so he got no special treatment because of it.

Jiraiya didn't train Naruto because of his parents were, so there was no nepotism there. And even if Jiraiya chose to train him solely because of who his parents were, was Jiraiya's talent and skill supposed to simply fall off his balls and onto Naruto? Jiraiya explained the process of Rasengan with the ball and balloons, and left Naruto alone to sit around with them. Anyone who would have to learn Rasengan would receive the exact same training process. The difference is, Naruto was creative enough to figure out how to do it during training. Jiraiya wasn't sitting around giving Naruto instructions and tips and pointers 24/7. He gave him the instructions, left him alone, and Naruto figured out all on his own.

So there's nothing valid about this whole "privileges" nonsense.
 
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It's not at all the same thing. The "D" bloodline isn't "special" in that they're destined to do anything. The "D" family has a particular set of personality traits to them that puts them at odds with the world power. There are Ds who work with the "enemy" of the stories, there are Ds that function as the "enemy," and there are Ds like Ace, Rogue, and Saul who died without taking part in this "special war."


You do realize it was stated time and time again that Naruto inherited NONE of the talent his parents had? The only thing Naruto got from either of his parents that benefited him in the long run was high chakra and stamina from his mother, and that didn't carry him, that just allowed him to train extensively for whatever he got.

All of the odds were against Naruto. He inherited none of his parents' talent. You mentioned his godfather trained him, but Jiraiya didn't train him because of that, so that doesn't matter. Even if Jiraiya DID choose to train Naruto because of who his parents were, that doesn't automatically mean that the training was easy. Naruto's teacher was Kakashi, who was also touted as a genius, and look how that went. Naruto's growth never piggybacked on who his parents or teachers were, it fell back on his actual work. You lot can cry and moan and ***** all you want about Naruto being the "Child of Prophecy," but it'll always remain a fact that if Naruto didn't train as hard as he did, he never would have fulfilled that prophecy. He would have simply died without accomplishing anything, and Ashura would have just started over again.


What privileges helped Naruto? Again, he got none of his parents' talent, so the privilege of them is out the window. Double this fact due to no one knowing he was their son, so he got no special treatment because of it.

Jiraiya didn't train Naruto because of his parents were, so there was no nepotism there. And even if Jiraiya chose to train him solely because of who his parents were, was Jiraiya's talent and skill supposed to simply fall off his balls and onto Naruto? Jiraiya explained the process of Rasengan with the ball and balloons, and left Naruto alone to sit around with them. Anyone who would have to learn Rasengan would receive the exact same training process. The difference is, Naruto was creative enough to figure out how to do it during training. Jiraiya wasn't sitting around giving Naruto instructions and tips and pointers 24/7. He gave him the instructions, left him alone, and Naruto figured out all on his own.

So there's nothing valid about this whole "privileges" nonsense.
Fair one on the Neji topic, but the thing I wanted to touch on was Naruto being born with no talent. That's just simply not true, he wasn't the best in school because he wanted to be the class clown and get attention from goofing around, once he tried to do something ie learn the shadow clone technique (to such a degree I might add), Rasengan, Sage mode, Summoning, RasenShuriken he managed all quite quickly and relevantly fast, this is due to him being talented. Everyone commented on it. It took Minato years to develop the Rasengan and on top of that he was never able to fully develop it as he wasn't able to assimilate his own element affinity into the technique... Naruto achieved it with ease, had a bit of tweaking to do so as to not rip his arms to shred, but seemed like a pretty easy feat for Naruto to me. I'm not even going to mention Naruto then becoming just as fast (if not faster) that Minato, who was regarding to being the fastest out there... So yeah he obviously trained to get to where he was, but it was a lot easier than what you're making it out to be.
 

Love Cook

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It's not at all the same thing. The "D" bloodline isn't "special" in that they're destined to do anything. The "D" family has a particular set of personality traits to them that puts them at odds with the world power. There are Ds who work with the "enemy" of the stories, there are Ds that function as the "enemy," and there are Ds like Ace, Rogue, and Saul who died without taking part in this "special war."


You do realize it was stated time and time again that Naruto inherited NONE of the talent his parents had? The only thing Naruto got from either of his parents that benefited him in the long run was high chakra and stamina from his mother, and that didn't carry him, that just allowed him to train extensively for whatever he got.


You just grossly misunderstood the whole "Neji destiny" thing. Kishi was never trying to saying that destiny doesn't exist with Naruto's conflict with Neji. Kishi was trying to convey that Neji's idea of destiny was false. The conflict wasn't based on "Destiny doesn't exist" "Yes it does!", the conflict was "Change" vs "Unable to change."

The conflict was never "Hard work beats talent." Hell, even Lee said he wanted to be as splendid as Sasuke and Neji, never that he was going to better. The conflict was that Neji kept saying that if you're ass right now, it means you don't have talent, and will never change from being ass, and Naruto and Lee wanted to prove that hard work IS JUST AS GOOD AS talent, and that if you're ass right now because you don't have talent, you can be as great as people with talent through hard work and changing what you are. Which is exactly what Naruto did.

All of the odds were against Naruto. He inherited none of his parents' talent. You mentioned his godfather trained him, but Jiraiya didn't train him because of that, so that doesn't matter. Even if Jiraiya DID choose to train Naruto because of who his parents were, that doesn't automatically mean that the training was easy. Naruto's teacher was Kakashi, who was also touted as a genius, and look how that went. Naruto's growth never piggybacked on who his parents or teachers were, it fell back on his actual work. You lot can cry and moan and ***** all you want about Naruto being the "Child of Prophecy," but it'll always remain a fact that if Naruto didn't train as hard as he did, he never would have fulfilled that prophecy. He would have simply died without accomplishing anything, and Ashura would have just started over again.



Naruto is the "Child of Prophecy."

A prophecy is a prediction. It's a guess. Someone long ago GUESSED that this what was supposed to happen, and Naruto brought it to life through training hard to defy the fact that he had zero talent. He had ZERO talent and trained anyways, and that's not beating the odds? You people just need to find something to whine about.

I liked him better he was crying on the swings and Iruka had to get him back up. Because the moral of the story now is:



What privileges helped Naruto? Again, he got none of his parents' talent, so the privilege of them is out the window. Double this fact due to no one knowing he was their son, so he got no special treatment because of it.

Jiraiya didn't train Naruto because of his parents were, so there was no nepotism there. And even if Jiraiya chose to train him solely because of who his parents were, was Jiraiya's talent and skill supposed to simply fall off his balls and onto Naruto? Jiraiya explained the process of Rasengan with the ball and balloons, and left Naruto alone to sit around with them. Anyone who would have to learn Rasengan would receive the exact same training process. The difference is, Naruto was creative enough to figure out how to do it during training. Jiraiya wasn't sitting around giving Naruto instructions and tips and pointers 24/7. He gave him the instructions, left him alone, and Naruto figured out all on his own.

So there's nothing valid about this whole "privileges" nonsense.
What a waste of my time to struggle through all of that.

Also yes the whole underlying plot was that Neji was convinced he was stuck on one track, I think there was even a bird and a cage metaphor in there somewhere. But the recurring theme of part one is that hard work beats talent. It was said numerous times, even in his last breath.
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Also your completely missing the point with the entire training thing. Fact is that everything Naruto did or became somehow was a parallel to a previous generation. His mom, his dad, Jiraiya (legendary trio) and his Senju blood. That he was born as a shitty ninja takes away nothing from that because otherwise the series would be over in 100 chapters if he also had great talent on top of that.
 
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