TRE MERCER(War arc SM Naruto) Vs Drproof(Hebi Sasuke)

[adeshina365]

Absolutely brilliant from DrProof

 

[Tantalus Thief]

I guess it's not going to be as easy as i thought lol.

















It's going to be easier.

I noticed you didn't go over Manda. Was it too hard to go against your fav?

Joking. But ou made a good opener. Same complement for Proof. I'm excited to see your counter.
Condfident are we at the bold.

 

[TRE MERCER]

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''Good luck Proof you'll need it''

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Spoiler

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• War-arc feats. Null. | Sasuke's striking speed >= 3rd Raikage.
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  | No.
• Naruto shrugging off a fall =/= a current of electricity | Chidori spear can be used in multiple other forms. Null.
• Summons aren't just present -> Summoning jutsu -> Summoned.

War arc feats null? How when base Naruto showed no superior speed feats since the pain arc? So why would war arc SM Naruto be any faster than Pain arc SM Naruto? Only thing that is different from war arc and Pain arc SM Naruto is that War Arc SM Naruto can maintain SM without clones being in Mt Myoboku. He can also last longer while in SM. In terms of physical stats their isn't a difference. Hebi Sasuke striking speed was countered by Deidara[

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] SM Naruto who has much better reaction time than Deidara would easily be able to dodge that. A blind Itachi kept up with Sasuke in cqc that alone should tell you his striking speed isn't on that level. Chidori spear is never landing so that's irrelevant.​

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Visual
Genjutsu is enough. The premise of the fight is where things will not only be decided, but ended. Naruto explicitly will attempt to summon Ma & Pa, along with other toad summons. This will prove to be futile; fruitless in action, on the pretenses:

Ⓐ: Sasuke is capable of performing Genjutsu

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eye contact.
Ⓑ: Sasuke can do so from

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ranges.

Proven that Sasuke is able to use visual Genjutsu from nigh any range, and direct eye contact being unneeded. The summoning of any viable toads Naruto possesses would be caught in Genjutsu upon appearance; giving Naruto two choices:

Ⓐ: Combat his own summons, willed by Sasuke's coercion.
Ⓑ: Cancel the summoning; causing the animal(s) to disperse.

Direct approach through Genjutsu is also a viable case; Sasuke using Genjutsu on Naruto. The opposition is heavily susceptible to Genjutsu, be it full-blown, or simply disruption - All Sasuke needs is a

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, and a fatal wound can be

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.

Reason to Naruto's susceptibility to Genjutsu, even while Sage Mode is active; natural energy is not passively absorbed to disrupt chakra flow - Sage Mode sensing can be discombobulated through multiple chakra sources being

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in one individual (due to sensing only taking in account a person's overall chakra) eg; running chidori through Kusanagi - Genjutsu. Sensing can only

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the build up/present chakra, not where the application will come from - Naruto's sensing being addled, disallows him from discerning Genjutsu, from reality; especially in Sasuke case, seeing as Sasuke is capable of

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real world scenarios eg; reality

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.

This alone, gives Sasuke victory.

Sasuke can't catch people in Genjutsu without eye contact your reaching extremely hard here let me break this terrible argument down. Deidara constantly looked into Sasuke's eyes[

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]. Deidara even looked right in Sasuke eyes prior to using c4[

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] and while c4 was going off they established eye contact once more[

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] Deidara was put under genjutsu in one of these instances. Hell it's not even suggest ever that Sasuke can catch genjutsu on an opponent without eye contact that's just you reaching.

Naruto summonings like Gamabunta and Gamaken can be caught but Ma an Pa who are sensors are never being caught in genjutsu when they can keep their eyes closed. Ma and Pa are the only summonings Naruto needs here honestly. As long as he has them he has a viable counter for Manda and Sasuke as a hole. Naruto is never being caught in genjutsu either when he can fight based from sensory alone and SM Sensory is great as shown here[

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]. Kabuto already proved that you can fight with your eyes closed and still be efficient so Sasuke genjutsu isn't a problem for Naruto.

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Melee

I needn't go on, as the first segment won this debate, but out of respect..

Sasuke is undoubtedly the aggressor in melee. The reason being: Kusanagi - Range. Sasuke's sword, Kusanagi grants Sasuke the advantage in melee, as any true Sasuke fan would discern. Entering close quarters with Sasuke is suicide contemplation, Frog Kata allows it's user to extend their range by several inches - Kusanagi allows it's user to extend their range by several feet. Alone, Kusanagi triumphs in this situation.

However, there is another form of superiority Sasuke can use to advance himself in terms of melee combat; Chidori Eisō. The range for Chidori Eisō is capable of reaching up to

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, along with it being capable of not only being used to pierce, but

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; increasing it's lethality substantially. Sasuke, capable of wielding

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: Kusanagi, and Chidori Eisō would pressure Naruto substantially;

Sasuke having the advantage in melee isn't going to due him any good when SM Naruto dominates him in multiple areas such as. Stength,Reaction,Speed,Versatility. If Sasuke reaches out with Chidori spear[

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] His entire body is left open for a attack. Once Naruto dodges him 10m isn't enough to stop a Rasengan from landing in his chest since Naruto dodge and counter speed attack caught someone as fast as the 3rd Raikage while his arm was full extended[

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] Sasuke will be put in this exact same position if he goes for Chidori spear or Katana attack. ​

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Ⓐ: Sharingan Genjutsu; several second stun/interruption due to reality simulation.
Ⓑ: Dual melee; Chidori-empowered Kusanagi - Chidori Eisō.
Ⓒ: Inference; Genjutsu - Stuns Naruto | Dual melee - Fatally injures/kills Naruto.

For visual purposes, an enactment will be displayed. Sasuke through a simplistic use of Sharingan Genjutsu, creates a reality simulation as he did against Deidara to

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Naruto; be it for several seconds, or a split-second. Sasuke in an instant performs, and manipulates Chidori Eisō in this

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, killing Naruto; putting an end to this one-sided battle.

Recap

Ⓐ: Sasuke's Genjutsu can be used without eye contact & from augmented range.
Ⓑ: Sasuke applies Genjutsu instantaneously on Naruto's summons upon their arrival.
Ⓒ: Explained why Naruto is suspectible to Sharingan Genjutsu.
Ⓓ: Sasuke applies Genjutsu to Naruto; Naruto incapacitated for several seconds/split-second.
Ⓔ: Proved Sasuke needs only a moment to fatal injure/kill his opponent.
Ⓕ: Dual melee lethality; Chidori-enhanced Kusanagi + Chidori Eisō.
ⓖ: Sasuke triumphs without using the majority of his arsenal.

Due to Naruto fighting with his eyes closed Sharingan genjutsu stun is never happening thus the rest of your fanfic set up is put to a stop. Once Ma and Pa uses their sound genjutsu[

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] Sasuke is rendered immobile while Naruto throws a FRS[

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] to obliterates Sasuke's body.

• A- Sasuke genjutsu absolutely needs eye contact which he established with Deidara twice [
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  ]-[
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  ]

• B- No he can't since summoning cause a huge smoke.[
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  ].screen which blocks Sasuke from any form of eye contact.
  
• C,D,E- Completely wrong when Naruto can fight with his eyes closed and reply soley on SM sensing.

• F- Using Chidori spear or his blade would allow him to be killed since he'll be left wide open for an attack
• G- Sasuke can't win while using his entire arsenal him restricting his arsenal results in a bigger stomp.

 

[TRE MERCER]

I noticed you didn't go over Manda. Was it too hard to go against your fav?

Joking. But ou made a good opener. Same complement for Proof. I'm excited to see your counter.
Condfident are we at the bold.

I did give a counter to Manda. Ma and Pa will stun him like this[

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] and Gamabunta uses his blade to pin and immobilze Manda[

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]

 

[DrProof]

Will post again in a bit.

 

[Megax Rocker7]

Aww $hit, I'm enjoying this already.

 

[DrProof]

Just read your counter. Hella misconceptions yungin. Typing now.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Just read your counter. Hella misconceptions yungin. Typing now.

Lol can't wait 2 read the counter.

 

[Oblivionx]

DrProof made a good post i have to say despite me not liking sasuke. Eye contact is definitely required though for visual genjutsu otherwise itachi's finger genjutsu wouldn't have been hyped so much and sasuke's feat would have been highlighted as well. But sasuke's range for casting genjutsu is quite astonishing. I thought genjutsu was short range jutsu but he casted from quite far away.
Also sasuke can't cast genjutsu on multiple targets so can't ma or pa or naruto cancel that for each other. They can even do that with other summons and sasuke would be wasting his chakra. After all that was the tactic chiyo and kakashi testified for fighting 3T sharingan.

 

[DrProof]

DrProof made a good post i have to say despite me not liking sasuke. Eye contact is definitely required though for visual genjutsu otherwise itachi's finger genjutsu wouldn't have been hyped so much and sasuke's feat would have been highlighted as well. But sasuke's range for casting genjutsu is quite astonishing. I thought genjutsu was short range jutsu but he casted from quite far away.
Also sasuke can't cast genjutsu on multiple targets so can't ma or pa or naruto cancel that for each other. They can even do that with other summons and sasuke would be wasting his chakra. After all that was the tactic chiyo and kakashi testified for fighting 3T sharingan.

My upcoming post will rectify everything. You're misunderstanding how Sasuke would use Genjutsu, and no his Genjutsu doesn't require eye contact. Eye contact can't be made from that far, and the Sharingan has never shown zooming properties. Also, wait until the debate is over to add side input.

Not that it matters, I've anticipated what people would deny with, and have information to astute them.

 

[TRE MERCER]

My upcoming post will rectify everything. You're misunderstanding how Sasuke would use Genjutsu, and no his Genjutsu doesn't require eye contact. Eye contact can't be made from that far, and the Sharingan has never shown zooming properties. Also, wait until the debate is over to add side input.

Not that it matters, I've anticipated what people would deny with, and have information to astute them.

Eye contact can be made from that range buddy.

 

[DrProof]

Spoiler

Yea ok lol...

I'm a need some serious proof from DrProof on how Sasuke wins this.

this is not even debatable naruto low-mid diff

i am actually curious about arguments for sasuke here. By the looks of it, naruto should destroy. But lets see.

War arc? Pain arc should be the one used here. Good luck to both

You better losing with Sasuke is a sin

Manda S0l0s

LMAO That banter between KG and Proof had me dying LOL..

I beg someone just make the thread. The simplest part of the whole procedure is looking like the longest.

As for this debate, good luck to you both. Naruto should win decisively, but we'll see how Proof goes about it.

Damn :lol

naruto low diff :lol

WAR Arc SM Naruto v. Hebi Sasuke? Pr

oof there ain't no way :lol​

+1 for no wall.

Hebi Sasuke was already low-mid kage level.

I believe proof got this if he plays his cards right.

Let's just wait and see.

Damn proof where you at

​

Spoiler

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''Good luck Proof you'll need it''

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Spoiler

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War arc feats null? How when base Naruto showed no superior speed feats since the pain arc? So why would war arc SM Naruto be any faster than Pain arc SM Naruto? Only thing that is different from war arc and Pain arc SM Naruto is that War Arc SM Naruto can maintain SM without clones being in Mt Myoboku. He can also last longer while in SM. In terms of physical stats their isn't a difference. Hebi Sasuke striking speed was countered by Deidara[

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] SM Naruto who has much better reaction time than Deidara would easily be able to dodge that. A blind Itachi kept up with Sasuke in cqc that alone should tell you his striking speed isn't on that level. Chidori spear is never landing so that's irrelevant.​

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Sasuke can't catch people in Genjutsu without eye contact your reaching extremely hard here let me break this terrible argument down. Deidara constantly looked into Sasuke's eyes[

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]. Deidara even looked right in Sasuke eyes prior to using c4[

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] and while c4 was going off they established eye contact once more[

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] Deidara was put under genjutsu in one of these instances. Hell it's not even suggest ever that Sasuke can catch genjutsu on an opponent without eye contact that's just you reaching.

Naruto summonings like Gamabunta and Gamaken can be caught but Ma an Pa who are sensors are never being caught in genjutsu when they can keep their eyes closed. Ma and Pa are the only summonings Naruto needs here honestly. As long as he has them he has a viable counter for Manda and Sasuke as a hole. Naruto is never being caught in genjutsu either when he can fight based from sensory alone and SM Sensory is great as shown here[

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]. Kabuto already proved that you can fight with your eyes closed and still be efficient so Sasuke genjutsu isn't a problem for Naruto.

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Sasuke having the advantage in melee isn't going to due him any good when SM Naruto dominates him in multiple areas such as. Stength,Reaction,Speed,Versatility. If Sasuke reaches out with Chidori spear[

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] His entire body is left open for a attack. Once Naruto dodges him 10m isn't enough to stop a Rasengan from landing in his chest since Naruto dodge and counter speed attack caught someone as fast as the 3rd Raikage while his arm was full extended[

You must be registered for see links

] Sasuke will be put in this exact same position if he goes for Chidori spear or Katana attack. ​

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Due to Naruto fighting with his eyes closed Sharingan genjutsu stun is never happening thus the rest of your fanfic set up is put to a stop. Once Ma and Pa uses their sound genjutsu[

You must be registered for see links

] Sasuke is rendered immobile while Naruto throws a FRS[

You must be registered for see links

] to obliterates Sasuke's body.

• A- Sasuke genjutsu absolutely needs eye contact which he established with Deidara twice [
  You must be registered for see links
  ]-[
  You must be registered for see links
  ]

• B- No he can't since summoning cause a huge smoke.[
  You must be registered for see links
  ].screen which blocks Sasuke from any form of eye contact.
  
• C,D,E- Completely wrong when Naruto can fight with his eyes closed and reply soley on SM sensing.

• F- Using Chidori spear or his blade would allow him to be killed since he'll be left wide open for an attack
• G- Sasuke can't win while using his entire arsenal him restricting his arsenal results in a bigger stomp.

​

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You must be registered for see images __________​ Error II Assuming Naruto's Pain-arc - War-arc transition yielded no experience gain; Hebi Sasuke - Taka Sasuke alone yielded a vast majority in ability increase, believing that in a time-skip of two arcs, that Naruto wouldn't have improved is asinine. Ⓐ: Pain’s Assault - Learned SM. Ⓑ: Five Kage Summit - Progressed undoubtedly. Ⓒ: Fourth Shinobi World War: Countdown - Progressed undoubtedly. Ⓓ: Fourth Shinobi World War: Confrontation - SM used once again vs 3rd Raikage. Two entire arcs had passed, and you say Naruto's capabilities hadn't been defined further; blasphemy. This proves using Sage Mode feats from the war-arc is null. This is further proven by the statements you made: Only thing that is different from war arc and Pain arc SM Naruto is that War Arc SM Naruto can maintain SM without clones being in Mt Myoboku. He can also last longer while in SM. How could Naruto progress further in the Sage Arts; redefining his capabilities regarding Sage Mode if he didn't improve from the Pain-arc - War-arc? It's because he did improve. Drastically. I won't delve into the other portion of the first segment, it'd be a waste of time. Visual II Misconceptions. These are what amass when you don't properly, and thoroughly read the manga; along with carefully studying scan illustrations. Your first fallacy: Sasuke can't catch people in Genjutsu without eye contact. Incorrect. If you'd read the chapter further, you would've noticed that Sasuke caught Deidara in Genjutsu without the appropriate eye contact; not once, but You must be registered for see links . Deidara had trained his left eye, so that it could specifically counter Itachi's You must be registered for see links Genjutsu, which it in fact is capable of. Sasuke was shown to capture Deidara in a Genjutsu yet again. But this time, under the pretenses; Deidara's right eye was closed, and his left eye had assumed visual Genjutsu You must be registered for see links mode. Along with being too far to make direct eye contact, Sasuke had still got the best of Deidara, putting him under the same Genjutsu as before; the usual depiction of two Sharingan proving Deidara had been You must be registered for see links yet again. Proving again; Sasuke is capable of using Sharingan: Genjutsu without direct eye contact. Sasuke can cast Sharingan: Genjutsu from augmented ranges. To further strengthen this fact, along with reassuring that Sasuke is capable of putting multiple targets in Genjutsu - Sasuke was shown to put all nine beast inside of Genjutsu with a single You must be registered for see links . Redefining the fact that Sasuke is capable of casting visual Genjutsu against those out of direct eye contact; the nine beast were all in ranges You must be registered for see links that of the appropriate for eye contact. This is simply to further prove that Sasuke performing visual Genjutsu without direct eye contact isn't a retcon/inconsistency, and that Sharingan: Genjutsu is capable of capturing multiple individuals at a time. Vision Another fallacy you could've avoided making, by doing proper research: Deidara even looked right in Sasuke eyes prior to using c4. This is both: false & true. It is true, that Deidara did in fact make eye contact with Sasuke however, it's false that Deidara was put under Genjutsu in this You must be registered for see links , unless you believe direct eye contact isn't required to use Sharingan: Genjutsu; which you don't. If direct eye contact was needed for Sharingan: Genjutsu, Sasuke couldn't of had caught Deidara here. The reasoning behind this is because you believe: To apply Sharingan: Genjutsu you need direct eye contact; which you do not. Simple visual Genjutsu not branching from the Sharingan however, does. Let's go over the prerequisites to catch the opposition in simple visual Genjutsu: Direct eye contact; from the visual Genjutsu caster. Sasuke did not possess this stipulation; only Deidara did. You've probably asked yourself "how?" I'll explain now. Deidara was shown to have exceedingly prominent vision, capable of You must be registered for see links much greater distances than ordinary shinobi. Prerequisites to perform his enhanced-vision? The absence of vision in one eye; right or left. Deidara's left eye's vision is obstructed, enabling his You must be registered for see links eye to see You must be registered for see links distances - This You must be registered for see links him to You must be registered for see links Sasuke had Sharingan active. And here is the You must be registered for see links eye. This disproves that if Sharingan: Genjutsu in fact needed direct eye contact to be used, it wouldn't have worked. Clarity Another false statement: Summoning causes a huge smokescreen which blocks Sasuke from any form of eye contact. For being an Uchiha fan, you seem to not know much regarding the clan, and their visual prowess. The Sharingan has been shown countless of times seeing You must be registered for see links objects; Sharingan would allow Sasuke to see directly through the smoke, as he did Deidara's landmine beneath the surface. Seeing through does not render the Sharingan from being able to pinpoint its initial target eg; the toad summons. Null Things I won't be addressing because they do not make sense/been refuted by proving war-arc feats aren't applicable to Pain-arc Naruto: If Sasuke reaches out with Chidori spear. His entire body is left open for a attack. Naruto dodges him 10m isn't enough to stop a Rasengan from landing in his chest since Naruto dodge and counter speed attack caught someone as fast as the 3rd Raikage while his arm was full extended. Sasuke will be put in this exact same position if he goes for Chidori spear or Katana attack. Naruto fighting with his eyes closed Sharingan genjutsu stun is never happening thus the rest of your fanfic set up is put to a stop. Ma and Pa uses their sound genjutsu, Sasuke is rendered immobile while Naruto throws a FRS to obliterates Sasuke's body. All of the above statements you've falsely claimed have been refuted either by me redefining your fallacy, or by them being war-arc feats which cannot be applied to Pain-arc Naruto. I will now proceed to finish this debate by applying heavy pressure with minimally; Summons. Servants Sasuke through signing the Snake contract has been granted the permission to summon the reptilian species - From lower tiers to higher tiers (eg; Manda). Signing a contract with the higher-tier(s) You must be registered for see links other lesser summoning of the same species. This grants Sasuke several large snakes: Ⓐ: You must be registered for see links . Ⓑ: You must be registered for see links . Ⓒ: You must be registered for see links . Ⓓ: You must be registered for see links . In preparation for: "Sasuke can't control Manda" arguments; wrong, Sasuke states " You must be registered for see links " meaning he couldn't bargain, similar to how Orochimaru did with Manda. Not that it matters, simply putting Manda in Sharinga: Genjutsu would suffice all the same. Though if Orochimaru could get Manda to cooperate, Sasuke could as well; especially including the fact that he possesses Orochimaru's chakra completely. Regarding the white snake: Sasuke summoned this specific snake in a You must be registered for see links proving that the snake needn't be summoned; simply appearing around Sasuke at his beckon - Similar to how You must be registered for see links from Sasuke's sleeves through the You must be registered for see links of chakra. This snake proved to be durable enough to You must be registered for see links completely from Deidara's You must be registered for see links C1 assault. The explosion's You must be registered for see links portioned slightly smaller to that of You must be registered for see links . This pressure is simply enough to end this battle. There's no need for me to explore this fight further in regards to: Snake Ninjutsu, regular Ninjutsu, Sharingan pre-cog, and the plethora of other techniques Sasuke possesses. Hebi Sasuke is above Sage Mode Naruto. This is fact. Recap II Ⓐ: Reproved: Sasuke's Genjutsu can be used without eye contact & from augmented range. Ⓑ: Reproved: Sasuke applies Genjutsu instantaneously on Naruto's summons upon their arrival. Ⓒ: Proved: Deidara can see from extensive ranges. Ⓓ: Snake summons overwhelm Naruto, with the addition of Sasuke's Genjutsu & melee assaults. Ⓔ: Reproved: Sasuke triumphs without using the majority of his arsenal. -Click on the underlined context.​ __________ You must be registered for see images

 

[Booker]

Lmao if Tre manages to lose this...

 

[DrProof]

I guess it's not going to be as easy as i thought lol.

















It's going to be easier.

Tre be like:

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I'm straight coolin'. kool:

 

[Lord Tywin]

I judge if you want to

 

[DrProof]

I judge if you want to

I don't mind if Tre doesn't.

 

[Oblivionx]

My upcoming post will rectify everything. You're misunderstanding how Sasuke would use Genjutsu, and no his Genjutsu doesn't require eye contact. Eye contact can't be made from that far, and the Sharingan has never shown zooming properties. Also, wait until the debate is over to add side input.

Not that it matters, I've anticipated what people would deny with, and have information to astute them.

alright i'll wait for result first

 

[Jaime the kingslayer]

Dr proof or doctor fool.

He denies that SM Naruto evade ability > 3 Raikage striking speed. Now I would understand if those 2 never meet in combat but Naruto did react to 3 Raikage speed and that is manga fact. Saying different is retarded.

Also saying Hebi Sasuke striking speed > 3 Raikage is retarded .

And worst of all he is trying to say that Hebi Sasuke have advantage in CQC against SM Naruto

 

[Dizzldot]

frog genjutsu gg you literally can't say it won't work sasuke has absolutely 0 counter for it and he won't be able to release it if nagato couldn't lol

 

[DrProof]

Need to buy these 2016 members some glasses, and a brain transplant.