LoZelda101
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Doubt asura is fast enough especially if it's unexpected. kamui is only needed for CT
[VS] Nagato vs Kakashi and edo Itachi
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Do you know what ethereal means?
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Look past the religious definition obviously, zetsu himself stated it has no real physical form
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until someone gives it so with chakra as we clearly see it dealing physical damage do we not?-lol @ dripping argument like we haven't seen chakra drip before
-lol @ physical location, obviously it had a location Itachi didn't just magically acquire them out of thin air, he acquired them and utilizes them via chakra
-lol @ not telling me where they are stored if not within Itachi and/or his chakra.
There is a reason he can't just pull out the sword whenever he feels like it which is what he would be able to do if they were merely weapons that can became physical at will. IT NEEDS POWERFUL CHAKRA (like Susano'o) in order for the SPIRIT weapons to take form.
Jesus christ and the gourd is stored within Itachi himself unless again you want to give me an alternative location where they are kept? Never said he can utilize oro's power which he can't as it is SEALED clearly.
Also before you say it no I'm not suggesting Nagato can absorb and destroy the spirit weapons only the chakra that makes them physical and brings them into this world, Itachi can spawn them again if he so wishes.
Featless Yata huh, ST still knocks back the Susano'o not to mention he can absorb and ST at the same time and like I said placing Kakashi in Susano'o is a good way to go here but CST is still a thing.
Again you're assuming Nagato is doing nothing here, he can spawn multiple summons at a time so he's not taking them all out at once before Nagato can reach him.
How does that buy time when he can spawn a field of preta constantly around him?
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Ama is instantly absorbed or ST'd without any break in Nagato's actions.:lol @ Susano'o tanking CST when it was ****ed by Kirin, which is weaker than CST Village >>> Small mountain top, not to mention he can use it directly above Itachi amplifying its force by quite a bit, if you think Yata can tank show me the feats.
:lol Kamui snipe is the only problem here, Tsukuyomi never happens
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It's explicit that ethereal matter are composed of chakra:
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Yet are mostly composed of Spiritual Energy with aligns perfectly to how Uchihas are heavily reliant on their powerful Spiritual Energy when using their Dojutsu. Because of this, I've always interpreted Orochimaru's envious attitude directed towards Itachi as Itachi having obtained the "sealing jutsu" that Orochimaru could never obtain, not that the blade itself was what Orochimaru had sought for.
Sure do. It means in this context that the blade has no physical form, hence why it can be spawned and bind to Susano'o as well as change shape.
Want to know what else ethereal literally means?
Unable to be touched. Obviously not the case with Totsuka. Try again.
That wasn't an argument about how it's not chakra, it was an argument about how it has no set form.
Yes, it had a physical location. Hence it is not entirely ethereal in our literal definition. Try to keep up and not contradict yourself.
It's the equivalent of a sealing jutsu, they are just within Itachi. They are not a part of his chakra, just like how the Crow with Shisui's eye was a part of him but was not a part of his chakra. The only alternative is your solution is where Itachi sealed Orochimaru and made him a part of himself, which is absurd.
Did you write that fan fiction yourself? Very entertaining.
No, they are weapons that bend shape and form at will. Itachi merely bind them to his Susano'o rather than keeping them out in the open. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, the Gourd is stored inside Itachi. It is not a part of Itachi or his chakra, though. I don't know how absolutely bull-headed ignorant you have to be not to understand this.
Yeah, he sealed Orochimaru's power into his chakra is what you're saying. You really want to make an argument for that? Lmao. Give it your best shot.
Wow, some more fan fiction. Are you sure that you're in the right forum? This has no evidence and is only supported by random ideas that you thought up in your own head. Either the weapons are composed of chakra and get absorbed, or they're not. Stay consistent, I'm trying to help you become a better debater here.
I'm not suggesting that Susano'o isn't affected or knocked back by CST, I'm suggesting that it tanks it.
And you're assuming team is doing nothing while this is happening, lol. Ama is nearly instantaneous, this fiction you've spun where Itachi is too distracted to glance at the summons is ridiculous. And if Nagato goes for the summons instead of engaging the team, he gets Totsuka'd or Kamui'd.
Because Nagato now how to focus energy and chakra onto a separate task? What are you not understanding here? Ama already put Nagato out of commission for a bit in canon, and he didn't even Preta it.
Firstly, Kirin has far more concentrated power than CST. That's why it obliterated Itachi's Susano'o.
If your argument is that CST is going to somehow obliterate Susano'o, that's laughable. The reason CST destroyed the village was because the village is anchored to the ground. Susano'o moves with Itachi, so if Nagato makes the poor decision of using CST, all he's done is knocked back Itachi and Kakashi a ways.
Fantastic argument. "Lol it just won't happen". Care to explain why? If anything, summons work against Nagato here. Shared vision means that Itachi bum rushes one of them to Tsuk it, then it's Kamui GG. Not that I think that's the best option, but it's an option.
If Nagato tries to get anywhere close to the team, especially Itachi, he gets Tsuk'd. Engaging Edo Itachi with Susano'o at close range would be suicide for him, as he gets cut up by Totsuka which Preta cannot absorb because it is not chakra based. Not to mention that at that range he gets warped if he takes attention away from Kakashi for one second.
I'm going to need an actual argument as to why Tsuk isn't going to work here. Shared vision + Close range makes it a prime candidate for one-shotting Nagato in conjunction with Totsuka or Kamui.
What you just linked is a Ninjutsu, and isn't relevant to the discussion of Totsuka/Yata, which are ninja tools. Ethereal in this context means that the weapons of no shape or form and are able to change it at will. Otherwise, if we take the defintion of ethereal literally as you all want to, it means they would be useless as they could not interact with the physical world.
On top of that, if they required chakra, that just means that Itachi sealed Orochimaru and Nagato's power directly into his own chakra supply.
@Bold Then you would be wrong, because that's not what Orochimaru states.
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It has no physical form, meaning that it is able to bend and change shape at will. Not that it is unable to interact with the physical world or has a literal physical presence.
Not arguing, blade has no physical form until spawned with Itachi's chakra.
Bold just put me in shock....You've been arguing about how Totska isn't chakra for the past three posts you're the one contradicting yourself now bud :lol
.....Something ethereal can still be located, especially if its in the form of a scroll or what not that simply told Itachi how to use the "spirit" weapon :lol we can't argue this as its literally all conjecture, Oro having never found the weapon means absolutely nothing here.
Crow's are summons I believe, no that is completely false Itachi sealed Oro inside the gourd which resides inside of him as it has no form, for the last time provide an alternative for where Itachi stores the weapon or stop replying on the topic.
.......How can he bind something to Susano'o when the Susano'o isn't constantly present? You do realize he has to manifest Susano's with chakra right? Everytime he creates one, how could something be constantly bound to a Susano'o when a Susano'o isn't always there :lol dear god
Whether its a part of his chakra or not while inside him is irrelevant as its conjecture but what is more than conjecture is that the spirit weapons clearly require chakra to take form, there is no other mechanism in the NV that would allow Itachi to change their form at will :lol
Reading comprehension is at an all time low I see....
Oro---->Gourd------>Itachi as you said yourself the gourd resides in Itachi :lol even if the gourd was held in Itachi's chakra Oro is still SEALED in the gourd which means Itachi couldn't utilize it regardless it doesn't take much effort to realize what the word sealed means.
Again, reading comprehension is garbage at best, the weapons use chakra to take physical form if the chakra is absorbed their form is gone, the weapons themselves are obviously not :lol
It doesn't tank CST :lol
Preta > Totska its about time you realized this, even if it wasn't ST knocks any attempt back as well as the Susano'o, its more than just glancing if all the summons are in different locations and moving Itachi focusing on Amertarasu means he's not focusing on Nagato obviously :lol
What? He used Asura + Preta + Human path in the scan I just showed you PLEASE LEARN TO READ
Amertarasu put out a Nagato that wanted to be taken out yes, congratulations when Kabuto took control he ST'd it away simply because he could, if you're going to argue that he can't absorb Ama now you're incredibly dumb.
You know this how? Also why can't CST be concentrated itself? Nagato widened the Area for the village but there is no reason he can't concentrate all that force on one point :lol however even if he couldn't do that using CST DIRECTLY over Susano'o and not 100 or more meters above (as he did in manga) already concentrates the force onto Itachi and would crush Susano'o.
LMFAO what is this absolute nonsense, so if you have legs you tank CST now? How is this not wall of fail worthy
-Nagato uses CST above Susano'o it crushes it
-Nagato uses CST directionally all that force would still crush Susano'o its not a normal ST :lol
F
How would Itachi's chakra travel to Nagato here? They have a sight link not a nerve link :lol
False seeing as Nagato is a sensor and doesn't even have to look at Itachi to know where he is :lol reasons why I haven't bothered to argue against Tsuk and things you'd know if you knew how to read a manga.
You clearly have never argued against Nagato before :lol
He just proved that something Etheral like Totska can most certainly be chakra and based on its physical shape and the fact that it can touch things it most likely has both kinds of chakra as well meaning its easier to absorb than Tayuya's jutsu.
The amount of "lol's" I had in this post though lmfaoooooo
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LoZelda101
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lmao. Restrict chibaku and itachi will be whose stomping.
that's why I brought kakashi into this to take care of the only issue that itachi faces.
BenjerminGaye
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the team wins, edo itachi is only a little weaker than living nagato. Kakashi gives him the win.
LoZelda101
Active member
lol @bold is baseless assumptions.
it's mangafact that itachi was the one countering six paths. so why should I take your opinion as fact?
Where was this manga fact?
Itachi did nothing but attack Nagato when Kabuto wasn't paying attention to him, its manga fact by feats that Nagato takes Itachi mid diff at best :lol everything besides Tsukuyomi is absorbed from Itachi's arsenal (even Totska :lol) and Nagato's sensing means he doesn't even need to make eye contact.
Susano'o is absorbed eventually and CST could even end him, CT might need to be used but Nagato takes absolutely zero damage nor is he really pressured here so its still mid diff fight
Itachi needs chakra to bring up Susano'o, the tools are not made of chakra.
This is why reading comprehension skills are important. I wasn't contradicting myself, I was telling you that that specific point was not about how the weapons aren't made of chakra. I have other points for that.
Right, it had a physical location. I don't understand your point here. You seem to be agreeing with me.
Itachi's crows are not summons to my knowledge, unless you can provide evidence otherwise.
You're incredibly stupid. I already told you how the weapons reside; they're binded to Itachi's susano'o. That doesn't mean they are a part of his chakra. Which is what my example was pointing out which you entirely ignored; Naruto had a crow and Shisui's eye residing inside of him, but it wasn't a part of his chakra. Stop ignoring points.
The same way that Sasuke always has his crossbow with his Susano'o, although his is chakra based. They're set forms, Itachi just had the spirit weapons binded to his Susano'o so that they would manifest along side it.
It's actually not irrelevant, since what you're implying is that when Itachi sealed Orochimaru and Nagato he added their power to his chakra.
Nonsense, stuff is controlled with chakra but isn't made of chakra all the time. Kirin, Gaara's sand, any Suiton using an outside source, etc.
Are you absolutely retarded lol
If your argument is that the Gourd is a part of Itachi's chakra, then by extension that means that any chakra sealed within the Gourd also becomes Itachi's chakra. Otherwise the outcome would be that the Gourd and Itachi's chakra are separate... Which is the case. You're trying to have it both ways and it's really stupid, lol.
What weapons? What physical forms are you talking about? When you see the Totsuka Blade, that IS the Totsuka Blade. It's not some manifestation of chakra. You have absolutely no evidence for your position here, it's all fan fiction to support your point.
Sure does, present an argument why not.
Preta doesn't do jack to Totsuka, it's time you realized this. Come back with some evidence for your position and maybe you'll have a shot.
No it's pretty much just glancing. And where is your evidence that Nagato can summon all of his summons at once? Please present feats for that. As soon as they spawn in, Itachi hits them with Ama.
You keep saying that Nagato will merk Itachi while he's using Ama. Uh... How? ST isn't doing anything. Preta isn't doing anything. Taijustu sure as hell isn't doing anything lol. Trying to engage Itachi with Susano'o up means death. End of story.
Yes, and? My point wasn't that he can't, it's that it's one more thing to divert his attention and chakra to.
Not arguing bold, obviously preta can absorb Amaterasu. My point was that he opted to use ST instead for some reason.
Because Kirin is a jutsu which takes a massive amount of Raiton force and focuses it on a single position?
@Bold Why could he? You just made this claim that he could focus CST onto one spot with no evidence. This is fan fiction and nonsense.
If Nagato tries going above to set up a CST, he gets Kamui sniped before he's able to do anything worthwhile.
Bold isn't what I said. What I said was that the CST used on the Hidden Leaf caused such immense damage because everything was anchored down. This is basic physics, as resistance increases the force behind the action also increases. This is how rubber bands work.
- Setting up this type of CST is suicide, and there's no proof Nagato can do this instantaneously
- Give me some feats of a forward-based CST that is used instantly that would obliterate V4 Susano'o. Good luck lol
The same way that the shared vision operates? Their eyes are linked by the shared vision, that's why they all have the Rinnegan.
Nagato isn't even remotely fast enough to sense Kamui and then counter appropriately. Please give me feats suggesting otherwise.
@Bold So you're admitting that Tsuk would work here? Alright, thanks. As long as you avoid presenting an argument I'm going to be right here. If Nagato comes near Itachi, he eats a Tsuk and then it's game over.
Oh, and by the way, Nagato already proved that he was unable to use Preta on Totsuka.
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So unless you want to further embarrass yourself I'd suggest abandoning that argument.
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LoZelda101
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below :lol
fanfic
that's some mighty impressive feats then :elmo:
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genjutsu nor totsuka is needed to take down nagato.
I've already debunked this.
1. susanoo shields him from ST.
2. clones will take out his shared vision then flank him like the real itachi did in canon.
3. susanoo will be absorbed by preta, while itachi uses that chance to jump out of susanoo and take him out CQC.
(key word. jump out of susanoo/ not deactivate susanoo.)
4. He's not beating itachi without Chibaku tensei, which again. i'll say it's the reason I brought in kakashi.
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I'm done with this you're not arguing anything anymore you're denying claims.
Learn how to phrase.
I don't care if it did or not it has no bearing on this argument at all.
Jesus christ they reside within Itachi in Ethereal form than to take shape they require chakra, what? Itachi placed his own chakra inside Naruto, that is all that needs to be said about that you're making no sense, it wasn't part of Naruto's chakra because it was Itachi's :lol Minato did the same thing but that is literally irrelevant as are 99% of the claims you are making here.
Sasuke just manifests the crossbow when he needs to WITH CHAKRA this again is irrelevant or if anything leans towards proving my point, the crossbow isn't present 24/7.
Not implying this at all, if you can't read don't quote me. For the last time now;
-The weapons reside within Itachi when they have no form, in order for them to take form he merges them with SUSANO'OS CHAKRA WHICH THUS ALLOWS THEM TO BE USED IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD meaning they have god damn chakra.
......Those things are all physically present beforehand none of that is "ethereal" :lol you're making me laugh again.
Jesus christ this is almost as bad as you denying the BLM movement, please just drop this argument. Oro and Nagato were sealed within the gourd unable to be accessed by others.
Just look at how it springs from the gourd,
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it is manifested with chakra just like the Susano'o. I'm done with this argument my argument is logical you are just being dumb now.I've given you nothing but evidence all you've said is ... what have you said? That they aren't chakra they just magically reside inside of Itachi and appear only when Susano'o is manifested... WITH CHAKRA.
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this combined with the fact he can summon all 6 paths at once, you're also forgetting he can absorb the Ama of the summons. You are mentally challenged, Preta absorbs everything Itachi has, ST knocks everything from Susano'o away and then he proceeds to BT CST a helpless itachi into nothing.
Clearly didn't need much attention when he didn't even flinch :lol
Why bring it up then? Pointless....
How is it fanfiction when we have seen he's able to increase the basic ST's power and range no reason he couldn't with a more charged up version :lol you throw that word around way too much without thinking.
What does he have to set up? He has no paths to disable, using the bird summon he could ride up and use CST if he really needed to, if Kakashi Kamui's it he's prime to receive a CST to the face :lol don't say Ama as Nagato will absorb anything on the bird.
No....if you steamroll a rubber band its still getting crushed, CST was used downwards in that scenario everything was crushed into the ground in an outward fashion, Itachi receives the same fate, again you're saying anything that isn't anchored down can withstand CST :lol
There are no paths to dispower, so obviously it takes less time to charge jesus you are ignorant asf when it comes to Nagato
Its simply CST used not above.....you don't need feats lmfao
Vision is linked but pretty sure genjutsu affects the optical nerves leading to the brain, there are no nerves all leading to the same brain here.
Never said he could I said Kamui ends it.
I'm seriously starting to think you can't read my dude, Nagato doesn't have to look at Itachi as he can sense...like I just said jesus christ you're literally a moron.
-Kabuto wasn't utilizing Nagato's sensing as noted by his surprise of Nagato being a sensor later on
-Was distracted by the blast
By that logic ST doesn't work either :lol congrats, you played ya self.
Don't reply again you're too ignorant and Kamui probably wins this
lol @ all who think Itachi solos Nagato though like this idiot :lol
@Zelda don't show me scans of the Nagato that WANTED to be taken out ever again, he literally was putting in zero effort it was Kabuto's BARELY utilizing the ET hence why he had to take full control later.
-Itachi doesn't hit Nagato's blindspots when he has control over his actions
-What can Itachi do in CQC? Asura's increased durability tanks everything he has
-Susano'o doesn't tank CST and Itachi doesn't tank it when he jumps out either :lol that is honestly a terrible way to go here.
Think I understand why you stuck to the NDS now :lol I'm not replying to your garbage again.
OT-Nagato loses but you should most definitely make a Itachi V.S Nagato thread if you think he wins because I assure you he doesn't :lol
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LoZelda101
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His body was only minorly moving on its own at that point.
Of the paths not the summons, he doesn't really need shared vision for just Itachi though.
....Why could he not? It has nothing to do with reacting Itachi just can't harm him in CQC lol it tanked a Raikiri and he has Naraka path to heal any damage slightly done to his body in Asura state.
baseless
When were they ever hit with a CST......
-Doesn't need shared vision although Nagato can easily revive any summon that falls
-Clones are pointless Nagato is a sensor and ST dispels them.
-Susano'o is absorbed eventually or crushed by CST
As I said make a thread if you want to argue it to more extent.
LoZelda101
Active member
ok.
lol no. I don't want to be crude to nagato, but he isn't really that "bright" of a guy. he seems to be easily outsmarted by flank attacks from jiraiya all the way to edo itachi. so don't give me that "doesn't need shared vision" crap. haha
he didn't "tank" kakashi's raikiri. it pierced right through him like butter just like susanoo arm would.
more like when has CST ever killed anyone. :lol
Will never happen. clones will snipe the summons while the real itachi occupies nagato until clones return.
lol. nope. not only did sensory failed to predict itachi twice. itachi manged to feint DSM kabuto whose sensory >>> nagato's.
yup. and while he's absorbing, the clones will get him from behind and/ or distract with crows just long enough for itachi to manhandle nagato with susanoo punch. if it worked against sasuke and kabuto, it should against nagato. and b4 you say he'll just ST the crows. it wouldn't happen, there will be brief stall by nagato just long enough for itachi one shot him.
I already had. most seem to agree with me.
only way I'd agree with you is if itachi didn't have clones. let alone clones with impressive feints like explosion or crow stun.