If you're talking about the third panel on the very first scan in my post you just quoted, that was the sand Gaara was just using to attack Kimimaro. Unless I'm looking at the wrong panel, I have no idea what you're talking about, because that sand wasn't in the ground.
If you're talking about the third panel on the very first scan in my post you just quoted, that was the sand Gaara was just using to attack Kimimaro. Unless I'm looking at the wrong panel, I have no idea what you're talking about, because that sand wasn't in the ground.
You're once again disregarding what I've stated and beating around the bush. Gaara couldn't tag Kimimaro with the gourd sand--> Kimimaro slanders his capabilities with sand---> Gaara surprises him with a below the surface attack--> Gaara then proceeds to say, you're the fool, because I can effortlessly create sand from the ground. Context is clear cut. Then the fact that nothing was ever stated or slightly implied about this procedure demanding a whole lot of prep time, which you continue to conveniently ignore, along with any rational reasoning.
Not even the Databook, which you posted earlier, supports your assertion.
Notice it how it mentions absolutely nothing about an extensive amount of prep time being needed, which would be a key detail to include. It literally just states that Gaara grinds sand, and then unleashes the Sand Tsunami. It is done and accomplished right on the spot, as the text implies. The manga nor databook gives us literally no reason to believe what you're desperately trying to argue.
You're scrambling for excuses. Gaara, along with the other two sand siblings, were sent from Tsunade to back up the whole Sasuke retrieval team, not just Naruto. Gaara arrived at Kimimaro's grounds way after Naruto had left. So that has nothing to do with anything here, unless you have proof suggesting Gaara knew Naruto fought and couldn't defeat Kimimaro. Lee? Do you not remember the condition Lee was left in the last time Gaara had seen him? Gaara even noticed that Lee wasn't fighting like his normal self [
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]. Gaara prepping sand is again... BASELESS. Even your poor excuses are baseless.
What's desperate is you banking on something never stated or implied anywhere. If all that sand was prepped beforehand, why not just unleash it all at once, soon as he had such a large quantity? Because as you said, he wouldn't want to be limited to a smaller amount of sand any longer then he had to, and chakra isn't an issue. Why instead did he so conveniently use it appropriately and accordingly in direct response to Kimimaro? The simple answer is because it doesn't require any time to prep it, and it's effortless to do so for him. He can make it right on the spot. Apparently, this is rocket science.
That's fine, because I, along with many others, have been face palming at you for a while now. Wrong. It wouldn't be as simple as manipulating the highest quality grains. In order to form this ultimate defense, Gaara first needs to distinguish and locate the highest quality of minerals from the ordinary ones underground. After he does that, he pressurizes them with chakra, creating sand. The sand consisting of the initial Sand Arms and Sand Tsunami and the sand consisting of the Shield Of Shukaku are of different quality and occurrences. My point is, which you obviously failed to comprehend once again, that this technique must have to of been done right on the spot. Else, we'd be claiming that Gaara had predicted the nature of attack from Kimimaro. Since you agreed that Gaara didn't predict it, that means that we know for a fact that Gaara didn't start prepping the Shukaku Shield until
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, and completed it in the very next page.
So let's piece this together.
A) We can come to the logical conclusion that picking out the best minerals, and making high quality sand takes more time and effort then ordinary lesser quality sand. B) We know that it took Gaara little to no prep time to create his highest quality defense right on the spot. And C), this was done by SRA Gaara. Shippudden Kazekage Gaara accomplished a very similar procedure as SRA Gaara, except on a much larger scale.
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Thus, Kazekage Gaara can form masses of sand within seconds. End of story, period.
The manga backs up my claims. Kimmimaro could dodge each of Gaara's attacks. Yet Gaara's sand can enter the ground so quickly that it immediately pulverizes tons of rocks into sand and he can instantly release it. But his sand isn't fast enough in a head on attack to blitz.
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Furthermore my conclusion is based on far more manga evidence than yours. He analyzes that Gaara can use the sand for both offense and defense. He then argues, but reasons that Gaara can only use the amount of sand in his gourd. Which prefaces his comment "You can't do anything unless you have sand". Now the point of this entire dialogue is to display that Gaara can use more sand than what's in his gourd. Slanders. Shut up. There's no reason to feel so personal about Gaara's abilities. Here is how the context can be discerned. Have we ever seen Gaara use sand not from his gourd before? No. So what is the author trying to do? Expand Gaara's reptoire by showing an ability. Which a point heightened by Kimmimaro's very next thought. "Carrying around that heavy Sand is Proof of This" So... this entire dialogue concerns the gourd. "If I have Sand I can do anything" relates back to "You can't do anything unless you have sand." Which by the way is completely true and not slander. The reason Gaara carries the Gourd is because he needs some amount of sand to create more sand. In the absence of any sand whatsoever... he is useless. But now I'm getting side tracked by your peculiar use of slander. Gaara realized that he was being underestimated, and that his opponent believed he was limited to that which was in the gourd, to which he points out that he can create sand. Lee explains how this happens. None of it being described as a quick process either. Thanks to the picture RR highlighted for me. Thanks bud. We already observed Gaara's sand actively in the ground. So when he clasps his hand together it erupts upward, rather than shooting downward into the ground to instantly make sand. We can tell its going upward for several reasons. One Lee's guard and his hair flying backwards. And two Gaara's belt flies upward rather than downward. And those same marks are seen on the next page as more sand flies forth from the Earth.
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No, prediction is grasping.You're using Argumentum ad Ignorantiam Your now claiming the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence. Asking what exactly Gaara knew. Well Gaara knew that Kiba, who almost beat Naruto was on the mission, as well as Shikamaru who did beat Temari, there was Lee who gave him a good workout and almost beat him, and there was Naruto who did beat him. See? Unless we reason that he thought Choji was the standard assumption for the team then you're idea makes no sense. This is further proved as the sound 4 beat a team comprised of 2 special jounin ones that were on Minato's detail
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and that was probably communicated to the sand. This was a jonin mission.
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Now....you're again utilizing Argumentum ad Ignorantiam to say that because the databook doesn't explicitly state that putting sand in the ground, crushing rocks, and bring the new sand up is a process that takes time. It therefore doesn't take time. However, the databook doesn't usually mention prep time. It mentions the steps necessary to enact the jutsu. To give you an indication of quickness it uses words like instantly or instantaneously
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slower than that it may use the word quickly
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neither of those are used. The databook certainly doesn't suggest that this is a rapid fire technique
What's desperate is you banking on something never stated or implied anywhere. If all that sand was prepped beforehand, why not just unleash it all at once, soon as he had such a large quantity? Because as you said, he wouldn't want to be limited to a smaller amount of sand any longer then he had to, and chakra isn't an issue.
This is so stupid I will address more than once in a single post
I tell you that Gaara is prepping more sand;
you're answer: why doesn't he just use all the sand earlier
Me: because it was being prepared. That's kinda what prepped implies.
You: If he had been prepping sand underground he would have unleashed it all when it was ready
Me:... but.. but.. that's exactly what happened. What are you arguing? And even if he didn't use all the sand he had access to it. He was literally using it. I'm completely bewildered by your point.
You: Gaara didn't unleash it at the beginning of the fight, He can do it instantly. Therefore he wasn't prepping
Me: Did you just use your conclusion as one of your premises? "He can do it instantly" is the same as he wasn't prepping.
Do you think, that somehow the sand being under ground limits the amount of sand Gaara has access to?
Bear with me for just a second.
1. Gaara can control both the sand above and below ground.
2. Gaara was preparing Sand underground
Therefore Gaara had access to the sand underground without "unleashing it"
Now, why wouldn't Gaara unleash the sand immediately as he creates it?
If one has unlimited hands one could utilize unlimited hammers
The more hammers one has and the quicker they can deconstruct a solid.
Therefore the more hands the faster solids can be deconstructed.
Now to simplify what I mean
The more Sand Gaara the greater area he could cover
The greater area he can cover, the more stone he could crush
Therefore The more Sand Gaara has the more stones he could crush, which results in more sand quicker. It's basic investment theory where the created sand is the compound interest.
That's fine, because I, along with many others, have been face palming at you for a while now.
Oh. Ha! Got Me! Ha! Appeal to Popularity. Unfortunately for you, this isn't Mean Girls and Argumentum ad Populum isn't a valid logical technique. It's only a way to pat yourself on the back as a consolation prize because your inferior logic couldn't actually produce logically superior results.
A) We can come to the logical conclusion that picking out the best minerals, and making high quality sand takes more time and effort then ordinary lesser quality sand. B) We know that it took Gaara little to no prep time to create his highest quality defense right on the spot. And C), this was done by SRA Gaara. Shippudden Kazekage Gaara accomplished a very similar procedure as SRA Gaara, except on a much larger scale.
This is the problem with your Gaara isn't prepping argument. You must now reach the conclusion that Gaara isn't drawing the finest minerals from the sand that he already created. You must also necessarily believe that collects means instantly collects. Which means you believe he created a lot more sand, to find good minerals, and ignored all the best minerals that would be present in his Sand Tsunami
However, this isn't what was stated. Gaara created a sea of sand. He collected the best minerals. Because his last sand shield got bulldozed through.
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All of this was only possible through because the sand had already been created. His job was to sift through it. Exactly like Suna... where the sand was already created he just needed to sift through it (and that's assuming that he as kazekage had no contingency plans even though his only skill is sand. In all likelihood he would have presifted the sand and be remarkably familiar with his home court advantage, but there's no evidence so I won't argue that)
I'd also like to challenge premise A. If Gaara is destroying rocks en masse he could simultaneously sort good sand from bad. No reason it must take extra time. Homogeneous means all the same right? But what happened to all the good grains of sand that would have been in with the standard grains? Actually Premise A isn't a Premise its a conclusion... that has no argument attached.
My objection to B is that you are being too careless in your terms. Define create. I would say utilize or use. If that's what you mean. We agree. Otherwise, Premise B is flawed.
A logical argument must have premises that are both true and valid. Meeting both of those conditions the premise becomes sound. A valid argument can be untrue:
Broccoli is green
Meats are Green
Therefore Broccoli is a Meat
That is a valid argument but not a sound one. Because Meats aren't green.
To give you a less jarring veggie example
Vegatables are green
Carrots are not green
Therefore Carrots are not Vegatables
Again valid but unsound.
Though I suppose you could be trying to sum up your points in which case, I challenge each of them as unsound. And I ask that you establish sound arguments to make your case. But, that isn't what's going on due to your conclusion. So yes, I need you to treat A,B, and C as conclusions and state the sound premises you used to derive them.
Also, you have no place to speak of any L's because I'm tap dancing on your head son, with Gaara. You haven't even manned up to the challenge of what the main ideas of my argument is. You are staw manning away on tangents because you can't hold a candle to my knowledge base on Tsunade nor can you keep up logically, apparently.
As far as Adlet is concerned, step if you want the same logical beating as everyone else. I have no use in your hype, or your statements as though you actually matter, as if your decrees carry weight at all. You are subject to the same logic principles as us.
Tsunade & Sakura destroy them. Deidara's explosions were withstood by Cs2 Sasuke with him only losing a wing. Either Tsunade or Sakura brush off his explosions with the Strength of a Hundred Seal activated.
Biju Sized Katsuyu would easily be able to reach Deidara in the air with its acid, let alone the 10% version. Pretty sure that C4 doesn't need to be restricted. It likely can't kill either Sakura or Tsunade with their Strength of a Hundred Seal active.
Kakuzu is in the same boat as Deidara since his elemental attacks can't kill either of them and he can't put down Katsuyu. If Kakuzu does something stupid like trying to restrain them with threads to steal their hearts, his threads are ripped apart like tissue paper and he gets pummeled to death until all his hearts are destroyed.
If Kakuzu fights with his hearts out, Biju sized or 10% Katsuyu easily holds off the hearts while Sakura or Tsunade can one shot him with him basically being unable to damage either of them.
If Kakuzu fights with his hearts in his body and tries to fight long range, Katsuyu easily closes the distance allowing either Tsunade or Sakura to kill him.
Alternatively, either can punch the ground and destabilize the battlefield, which would give them an opening to close in on him and kill him.
Huge Deidara fan, but they lose to Tsuande and Sakura. Their combined access to Katsuyu puts them at a clear advantage. Kakuza is relatively deadweight here.
Sakura and Tsunade can definitely beat Kakuzu IMO. The issue remains is that Kakuzu is really experienced in fighting with other individuals which was emphasized in the Databook and his weakness which is lack of mobility is negated through Deidara's flight. Because of this, he becomes somewhat more dangerous and harder to deal with as a result.
Furthermore, Gaara wouldn't have to predict a single move of Kimmaru to start prepping sand. Why because he was sent there to back up Naruto. A ninja who beat him in his shukaku form. Do you think he would underestimate Kimmimaro, especially when Lee who put up a good fight against him needed to be saved as soon he arrived on the battlefield. Him prepping sand would simply be a natural result of assuming his enemy is more powerful than the guy that beat him last time.
This can't be a valid argument because it's suggesting Gaara knew Naruto lost against Kimmimaro. Which isn't true because at the time Gaara got there, Naruto was long gone. Not to add Kimmimaro wasn't part of the sound four Konoha and Suna knew about before they sent the sand siblings as backup. Assuming Gaara would think "he should be extraordinarily strong" based on what you stated doesn't add up.
No, prediction is grasping. You're using Argumentum ad ignoratiam Your now claiming the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence. Asking what exactly Gaara knew. Well Gaara knew that Kiba, who almost beat Naruto was on the mission, as well as Shikamaru who did beat Temari, there was Lee who gave him a good workout and almost beat him, and there was Naruto who did beat him. See? Unless we reason that he thought Choji was the standard assumption for the team then you're idea makes no sense.
I am not exactly sure what it is you mean here? Are you trying to say because Konoha sent out what looked to be a strong genin team is reason enough for Gaara to start 'prepping'(he doesn't. see below) sand immediately he gets on the battlefield without even knowing the abilities of the opponent he's about to face?
The fact that Kiba almost beat Naruto doesn't mean Kiba is close in strength to Gaara. And Gaara would know that. Shikamaru beating Temari? He is stronger than both Shikamaru and Temari. Lee gave him a good workout? Yes but even Gaara states himself that Lee wasn't at full pelt. It really has nothing to do with how he valuates his current opponent's abilities tbh.
Also, Argumentum de iggg...-though a good logic I've basically just learnt (ty btw)- is a logic far too advanced to apply to this manga imo. I mean with it I could argue a random male Hyuga with lightning affinity could use Chidori as well as Kakashi could right?
The sand that catches Kimmimaro isn't from Gaara's gourd and this scan kind of proves how fast Gaara creates sand. How?
This is page 12. Two pages before the one above.
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Gaara's very first attack. He tries to catch Kimmimaro with sand from his gourd to use sand coffin on him but Kimmimaro evades, analyzes and suspects the sand currently shielding Gaara and the one attacking him are from his gourd. In the last panel, he's surprised (!) that the attacking sand has broken into smaller pieces and are suspended above him but isn't shocked based on his remark of 'how boring'
Page 13.
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Gaara realising Kimmimaro won't stay put creates just enough sand at his feet nigh instantly to bind his legs. And it's sand that isn't from his gourd as evidenced by the fact that kimmimaro is both surprised and shocked (!?) when the sand grabs his feet because he had assumed the amount of sand Gaara could control was right in front of and above him and also Lee's statement of 'additional' sand. If Gaara had 'prepped' sand underground at that point in time, why didn't he use it then to execute sand coffin but opt to use his personal sand?
Iirc, I thought it was stated Gaara carried the gourd around because the sand in it was specially mixed with his chakra making it 2x faster and perhaps more dense than the normal sand he creates? He can create sand and imbue it with his chakra but why go through that process when you can start on the front foot with ready made chakra imbued sand? Either way, the fact Gaara more or less says he can create sand effortlessly should more or less prove creating sand doesn't need prepping.
To further buttress the points,
There's no reason to feel so personal about Gaara's abilities. Here is how the context can be discerned. Have we ever seen Gaara use sand not from his gourd before? No.
I think the akatsuki fella's will take this one, High difficulty.
Even if Deidara goes into the air I feel as though the girls might figure a way to bring'em down. If he just stays in the air and spams bombs it'd just be a waste of time I feel.
The sand that catches Kimmimaro isn't from Gaara's gourd and this scan kind of proves how fast Gaara creates sand. How?
This is page 12. Two pages before the one above.
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Gaara's very first attack. He tries to catch Kimmimaro with sand from his gourd to use sand coffin on him but Kimmimaro evades, analyzes and suspects the sand currently shielding Gaara and the one attacking him are from his gourd. In the last panel, he's surprised (!) that the attacking sand has broken into smaller pieces and are suspended above him but isn't shocked based on his remark of 'how boring'
Page 13.
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Gaara realising Kimmimaro won't stay put creates just enough sand at his feet nigh instantly to bind his legs. And it's sand that isn't from his gourd as evidenced by the fact that kimmimaro is both surprised and shocked (!?) when the sand grabs his feet because he had assumed the amount of sand Gaara could control was right in front of and above him and also Lee's statement of 'additional' sand. If Gaara had 'prepped' sand underground at that point in time, why didn't he use it then to execute sand coffin but opt to use his personal sand?
Iirc, I thought it was stated Gaara carried the gourd around because the sand in it was specially mixed with his chakra making it 2x faster and perhaps more dense than the normal sand he creates? He can create sand and imbue it with his chakra but why go through that process when you can start on the front foot with ready made chakra imbued sand? Either way, the fact Gaara more or less says he can create sand effortlessly should more or less prove creating sand doesn't need prepping.
I already know thats not gourd sand, I pointed that out but the fact that Gaara had sand underground means he was breaking it down. Its very clear to get more sand he needs to use his own sand to break down the rocks and minerals which is literally what is stated in the manga by Lee. That already shows you he needs prep. Tazilla's point was he was breaking rocks down the whole battle logically and did not just create that sea of sand in seconds which never made any sense and glad its being addressed. The hand seal he does is simply to bring all the sand he broke down up.
Again Tazilla greatly pointed out how illogical it is for Gaara to have broken down all that sand in seconds. The fact that Gaara had sand underground before that proves it even more.
In summary, Gaara needs his sand to break down rocks into more sand. The fact that he had sand underground to grab Kimi's feet means he had started breaking down the minerals from the start of the battle and if he started breaking down minerals at the start of the battle then he needs to prep before unleashing a giant sea of sand.
Yes we have.
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Notice how despite being on a building, the automatic sand defense nigh instantly broke down part of the top of that building to create sand?
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Also when he carved the symbol/insignia on his head
Before we even debate this let make it very clear that the manga clearly states Gaara needs to break down rocks with his sand to get more.
Not to mention that is shukaku's power. Gaara not even in part two ever was able to morph sand straight from rock in that way, further proving my point seeing as how Gaara no longer had Shukaku. Probably would have been helpful
Yes. Indeed you said this and maybe you missed it but i replied by asking: 'If Gaara had 'prepped' sand underground at that point in time, why didn't he use it then to execute sand coffin but opt to use his personal sand?' The sand at kimmimaro's feet was created at that moment to only hold him in place for Suna Shigure to fall and wrap him in Sand coffin.
Its very clear to get more sand he needs to use his own sand to break down the rocks and minerals which is literally what is stated in the manga by Lee. That already shows you he needs prep.
I'm sorry but Lee makes no mention of Gaara needing his own sand to break down rocks in the scan you posted.
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Tazilla's point was he was breaking rocks down the whole battle logically and did not just create that sea of sand in seconds which never made any sense and glad its being addressed. The hand seal he does is simply to bring all the sand he broke down up.
Again Tazilla greatly pointed out how illogical it is for Gaara to have broken down all that sand in seconds. The fact that Gaara had sand underground before that proves it even more.
@bold..isn't that what most of the anime is like? Kisame was able to create a large body of water in seconds. Madara somehow summoned two meteors. Tobirama can create large bodies of water in the absence of any water in seconds. Hashirama and Madara can create a forest in seconds. Yamato can build a house in seconds. It's seemingly all about chakra potency.
In summary, Gaara needs his sand to break down rocks into more sand. The fact that he had sand underground to grab Kimi's feet means he had started breaking down the minerals from the start of the battle and if he started breaking down minerals at the start of the battle then he needs to prep before unleashing a giant sea of sand.
The battle starts in chapter 215 pg 10, Gaara finally catches kimi and uses sand coffin pg 16, Kimi walks out of sand coffin pg 17 and Gaara unleashes sand tsunami pg 18.
You are using an assumption that Gaara would decide to prep sand because he would have felt his sand coffin (which was his strongest displayed technique at the time and only defeated just once by Naruto) won't be enough to deal with him. How can you arrive at this? He knew absolutely nothing about Kimmimaro apart from the little Lee told him.
Before we even debate this let make it very clear that the manga clearly states Gaara needs to break down rocks with his sand to get more. Not to mention that is shukaku's power.
Everyone seems to agree with this. But what's special about Gaara's personal sand? Chakra. Chakra is what is needed to perform all jutsu. It's basically the chakra in his sand that helps break down rocks.
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He doesn't have personal sand in the scans above but he's still able to create and manipulate sand.
@bold..what?
Gaara not even in part two ever was able to morph sand straight from rock in that way, further proving my point seeing as how Gaara no longer had Shukaku.
Bottom part. Gaara's division was ordered to retreat and retreat they did.
Chapter 546 page 7
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After retreating throughout the night, Ohnoki states they can't retreat any further and should initiate contact with their long range attacks from there. In the same scan Mu comments the alliance had been retreating slowly and seemed to have made up their minds. (P.S Notice the rocky terrain the Edo kages and Kages[Gaara and Ohnoki] are in).
Chapter 546 page 8 Gigantic sand tsunami
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1. Bijuu-less Gaara.
2. Rocky terrain. (Land of Lightning)
3. If they had been retreating all along, how could Gaara have prepped the sand he used for the tsunami?
4. What does Gaara's father do? Create gold dust in the same amount as the tsunami instantly.
This can't be a valid argument because it's suggesting Gaara knew Naruto lost against Kimmimaro. Which isn't true because at the time Gaara got there, Naruto was long gone. Not to add Kimmimaro wasn't part of the sound four Konoha and Suna knew about before they sent the sand siblings as backup. Assuming Gaara would think "he should be extraordinarily strong" based on what you stated doesn't add up.
No it is suggesting that Gaara knew that Naruto was on the Retrieval team. Along with other shinobi he witnesses to be strong. Which gives him no reason to stride in over confidently as the leaf assessed the power of those ninja to be inadequate and requested the Sand send back up.
I am not exactly sure what it is you mean here? Are you trying to say because Konoha sent out what looked to be a strong genin team is reason enough for Gaara to start 'prepping'(he doesn't. see below) sand immediately he gets on the battlefield without even knowing the abilities of the opponent he's about to face?
The fact that Kiba almost beat Naruto doesn't mean Kiba is close in strength to Gaara. And Gaara would know that. Shikamaru beating Temari? He is stronger than both Shikamaru and Temari. Lee gave him a good workout? Yes but even Gaara states himself that Lee wasn't at full pelt. It really has nothing to do with how he valuates his current opponent's abilities tbh.
What Kiba almost beating Naruto does mean, is that Kiba is a formidable ninja on the same mission as other formidable ninjas, who need backup... Yes, Gaara did note that Lee was doing absolutely nothing and that Lee wasn't at his full strength. But Noting that Lee wasn't at full strength really only matters to not prepping if Lee had done anything meaningful to Kimmimaro
Also, Argumentum de iggg...-though a good logic I've basically just learnt (ty btw)- is a logic far too advanced to apply to this manga imo. I mean with it I could argue a random male Hyuga with lightning affinity could use Chidori as well as Kakashi could right?
No it's not too advanced. I wouldn't even call it advanced. It's a principle you could derive on your own with no knowledge of logic. If I were to stated that you don't know the word "reality" because I've never seen you use the word I just committed Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. You could easily point out the fallacy in my thinking without knowing what the fallacy is called. You immediately went into argumentum ad absurdum. The absence of evidence simply is not the evidence of absence. Theorhetically Hyuuga could use Chidori as well as Kakashi with the caveat that he was taught the jutsu and extensively trained. But nothing suggests that, the manga seems to show that the Hyuuga prefer to train their own, thus Hiashi having no interest in training Hinata was painful. Thus, we could reason that a Hyuuga cannot use Raikiri as well as Kakashi
The sand that catches Kimmimaro isn't from Gaara's gourd and this scan kind of proves how fast Gaara creates sand. How?
This is page 12. Two pages before the one above.
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Gaara's very first attack. He tries to catch Kimmimaro with sand from his gourd to use sand coffin on him but Kimmimaro evades, analyzes and suspects the sand currently shielding Gaara and the one attacking him are from his gourd. In the last panel, he's surprised (!) that the attacking sand has broken into smaller pieces and are suspended above him but isn't shocked based on his remark of 'how boring'
Page 13.
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Gaara realising Kimmimaro won't stay put creates just enough sand at his feet nigh instantly to bind his legs. And it's sand that isn't from his gourd as evidenced by the fact that kimmimaro is both surprised and shocked (!?) when the sand grabs his feet because he had assumed the amount of sand Gaara could control was right in front of and above him and also Lee's statement of 'additional' sand. If Gaara had 'prepped' sand underground at that point in time, why didn't he use it then to execute sand coffin but opt to use his personal sand?
Gaara's Sand first made contact with the ground in Chapter 212, nothing suggests he didn't immediately start prepping Sand. We are in agreement that the sand which Grabbed Kimmimaro's foot wasn't sand from his gourd. But what we're disagreeing about is that Gaara had plenty of time to make the sand that he did create. If you ignore when Gaara's sand first came in contact with the ground I could understand how you'd get to the conclusion that it happened instantly. That simply isn't supported however.
I will reply with the same analogy I used earlier.
Now, why wouldn't Gaara unleash the sand immediately as he creates it?
If one has unlimited hands one could utilize unlimited hammers
The more hammers one has and the quicker they can deconstruct a solid.
Therefore the more hands the faster solids can be deconstructed.
Now to simplify what I mean
The more Sand Gaara the greater area he could cover
The greater area he can cover, the more stone he could crush
Therefore The more Sand Gaara has the more stones he could crush, which results in more sand quicker. It's basic investment theory where the created sand is the compound interest.
Iirc, I thought it was stated Gaara carried the gourd around because the sand in it was specially mixed with his chakra making it 2x faster and perhaps more dense than the normal sand he creates? He can create sand and imbue it with his chakra but why go through that process when you can start on the front foot with ready made chakra imbued sand? Either way, the fact Gaara more or less says he can create sand effortlessly should more or less prove creating sand doesn't need prepping.
I'd like to see a scan of the bold. Again you're recycling arguments I've already countered so I will go back to where I countered them and paste them here.
Easy =/= instantly. For instance, I can easily grow plants, that doesn't mean the minimum required time for them to grow and bear fruit is reduced. It is easy for me to make mashed potatoes from scratch. That doesn't mean that the potatoes will be mashed instantly, there is still a process than must be undergone. It may be easy for me to dig holes, it doesn't mean easiness erases that it takes me time. I can easily write papers or responses to things, it still takes time. It may take less time than if it were arduous, but that's not because it being easy makes it takes less time its that difficulty increases time.
I will now expound on this. Is it a process to create sand? Yes. What are the fastest speeds we've seen Gaara's Sand handle? If Gaara's sand moves at its fastest observed speed to break down rocks, how much time would it take to break down tons I mean tons as the measurement, of rocks. See, it doesn't logically make sense that the process occurs instantly given everything we've seen from Gaara
To further buttress the points,
Yes we have.
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Notice how despite being on a building, the automatic sand defense nigh instantly broke down part of the top of that building to create sand?
In a desert, there are sand storms, and wind blows and generally sand gets everywhere. Literally everywhere in every crevice, nook, and cranny. So Gaara pulling sand off the roof is hardly worth mentioning. That amount of Sand is hardly comprable to Sand Tsunami especially as it wasn't he who actively created this sand for his protection
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Also when he carved the symbol/insignia on his head
You are arguing that Gaara with no Sand present created Sand... but he was Surround by sand in every way. There was Sand everywhere that he could utilize.
Yes. Indeed you said this and maybe you missed it but i replied by asking: 'If Gaara had 'prepped' sand underground at that point in time, why didn't he use it then to execute sand coffin but opt to use his personal sand?' The sand at kimmimaro's feet was created at that moment to only hold him in place for Suna Shigure to fall and wrap him in Sand coffin.
True, but Gaara alludes to this and its expounded upon by the Databook
@bold..isn't that what most of the anime is like? Kisame was able to create a large body of water in seconds. Madara somehow summoned two meteors. Tobirama can create large bodies of water in the absence of any water in seconds. Hashirama and Madara can create a forest in seconds. Yamato can build a house in seconds. It's seemingly all about chakra potency.
Kisame spat out the water he used. He created Water much like Katons and Raitons are created. Turning his chakra directly into Water. Gaara was explained to use a different process entirely. Hashirama and Madara as examples area stretch aren't they? I mean Hashirama was considered a fairytale for that display of power. Something the 5 kage marveled at when Madara did, suggesting that none of them is capable of anything of that magnitude. As far as Yamato's house feat, I do recall that. I would point out that not only is his process completely different than Gaara's not lending it to comparison, but that houses are hollow structures meaning that it is significantly less work than say a Sand Tsunami
The battle starts in chapter 215 pg 10, Gaara finally catches kimi and uses sand coffin pg 16, Kimi walks out of sand coffin pg 17 and Gaara unleashes sand tsunami pg 18.
You are using an assumption that Gaara would decide to prep sand because he would have felt his sand coffin (which was his strongest displayed technique at the time and only defeated just once by Naruto) won't be enough to deal with him. How can you arrive at this? He knew absolutely nothing about Kimmimaro apart from the little Lee told him.
Nope. The battle started at 212. Also what I'm presuming is that Gaara was aware this was a mission that jounin should be sent on. Which is something that was absolutely conveyed based on all the mission briefings we've seen.
Everyone seems to agree with this. But what's special about Gaara's personal sand? Chakra. Chakra is what is needed to perform all jutsu. It's basically the chakra in his sand that helps break down rocks.
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He doesn't have personal sand in the scans above but he's still able to create and manipulate sand.
@bold..what?
If Gaara can mix his chakra into the sand he created by crushing stones, it's not a leap to believe that he can mix his chakra with sand already present.
Whoa. First;
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Bottom part. Gaara's division was ordered to retreat and retreat they did.
Chapter 546 page 7
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After retreating throughout the night, Ohnoki states they can't retreat any further and should initiate contact with their long range attacks from there. In the same scan Mu comments the alliance had been retreating slowly and seemed to have made up their minds. (P.S Notice the rocky terrain the Edo kages and Kages[Gaara and Ohnoki] are in).
Chapter 546 page 8 Gigantic sand tsunami
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1. Bijuu-less Gaara.
2. Rocky terrain. (Land of Lightning)
3. If they had been retreating all along, how could Gaara have prepped the sand he used for the tsunami?
4. What does Gaara's father do? Create gold dust in the same amount as the tsunami instantly.
I'm just going to quote myself again I'm not a huge fan of repeating myself. Prefacing this with the fact that Gaara is still in a desert.
And of any possible feat all you can tell me is when the structure emerged from the earth not when Gaara started creating his sand. Which leaves me with one of two arguments. 1, either he is in the desert and loose sediment from said bedrock fills the cracks inbetween the bedrock, such sediment would be sandy considering the lack of water in the desert. Gaara of the Desert can manipulate sand, thus he can use whatever Sand is present. or 2 The fact that we don't see his sand entering the ground would suggest, that it is already there doing its job. Gaara launched his sand in with the bedrock to create sand and manipulate it. You see, Gaara manipulates sand. So he either has to create it or its already there. If he's not in a desert its not already there. If he needs to create it, his sand needs to go into the ground and pulverize enough rock to turn it into sand. If his sand never enters the ground then second is impossible. Thus he must be utilizing the first.
I think he was suggesting that instantly turning all of the boulders falling towards him into sand would have thoroughly neutralized the threat and made a sand wall unnecessary. Though my argument revolves more around Madara's final katon. If it requires no prep, he should have instantly had a defense up.
So again, you're adding nothing to any of the topics discussed here, and essentially implying by wishing for KG's presence that your logic is insufficient to compete here, yet you have the audacity to call those who you can't keep up with stupid... cool.
Since we've apparently finished with all of the distractions (arguing whether or not Sand Tsunami is instant, where Tsunade ranks in the Gokage, people who must cling onto the abilities of others to feel some merit and validation) I'll actually start getting to the main point.
So we have Kakuzu and Deidara vs Tsunade and Sakura
My first point would be that the Katsuyu typically seen is not 5% of Katsuyu. My point gathers from the idea that summoning 10% of Katsuyu necessitated that both Tsunade and Sakura open their Yin Seals to summon that much of her.
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However, during their usual summoning no Yin Seal release is necessary, just that it is present for Katsuyu to draw upon it's strength telepathically. Orochimaru evidenced that Tsunade summons Katsuyu at a variety of sizes.
This is relevant because that implies that the Katsuyu used during the Pein arc was not 5% nor was the Katsuyu summoned by Sakura in the War. Which allows us to come to grip with the immensity of a 10% Katsuyu.
To the average shinobi unfamiliar with Katsuyu they express fear and are made uncomfortable by her size. Even when she's divided.
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As per Chapter 635 we are acutely aware that the clones of Katsuyu can use Zeshi Nensan ( which should be apparent anyway as every Katsuyu we've seen is essentially just a large clone)
If Tsunade and Sakura summon this 10% Katsuyu, and Kakuzu doesn't ride on Deidara's explosives with him, then Tsunade doesn't need Katsuyu's help taking down Kakuzu.
Tsunade is a close combat specialist who managed to land a blow on Clone Madara.
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Worth Noting because Ay charging in with V1 couldn't get a hit on Madara.
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The clone Madara was performing at such a high rate of skill that none of the gokage realized that it wasn't the actual Madara fighting. Gaara had seen Madara's impressive CQC, and Oonoki was personally familiar with it from his days as a youth and he got to witness it again when Madara arrived on the battlefield.
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Thus, they have the necessary knowledge to spot a decrease in ability.
Now some may say that Madara was hit because of the concentrated effort of the gokage. But Ay and Oonoki were doing nothing but floating, from such a position there is no attack they could have completed. Meanwhile Gaara was on standby to seal Madara as soon as Tsunade pressured Madara in CQC. Which at best leaves Mei as Tsunade's support.
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Which would be the same support that Ay had when his V1 attack failed.
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And Nothing suggests she was actively supporting Tsunade especially not to the degree we had seen her support Ay.
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Though there is another way to come at the feat to get to the same point. Tsunade launched an offensive against Madara. She sent his Susanoo flying. Mei sent his Susanoo flying even further and added additional speed to the susanoo. Mei's water dragon to the most direct path to Madara's susanoo possible. Meaning that Tsunade had to have taken a less direct path. Basic logic allows us to stay the quickest path to any give point is a straight line. Tsunade could not go in a straight line because that is direction Mei's Water Dragon took. Given that Madara's Susanoo recieved an acceleration bump at the end of the jutsu that Madara's susanoo was moving at a speed higher than that of the water dragon. It is at this point that Ay and Oonoki came in to strike Madara's susanoo. But we find that as soon as they made contact, before the effects of gravity could have any effect on them, Tsunade came in to strike and shatter the susanoo again. It was in this instance, the the gokage knew that Tsunade had the strength and the speed to fight Madara in CQC. Mei's Water Dragon is likely one of her fastest jutsus. Tsunade outsped it. Ay is one of the strongest shinobi, she outstrengthed him. It would make sense then to allow the person who has demonstrated the speed greater than a top tier ninjutsu users ninjutsu and someone stronger than a top tier Nin-taijutsu user to take the lead on offense. We've only seen two of the Gokage use seals, and only one of those seals is applicable to this battle, meaning Gaara had his job ready for him. To seal Madara. There was no logical reason for Mei to try and assist Tsunade, as Tsunade moved faster than her ninjutsu. More than that, if she timed her ninjutsu wrong she could have hindered Tsunade's offense. All points indicate that the cornering of Madara's clone was due to Tsunade's taijutsu prowess. Which then can be reflected in Ay's statement later about Tsunade getting sloppy despite putting down a Susanoo clone.
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The context of the sloppy comment matters, because if we look at how the other gokage were fairing, Mei was completely out of her depth. Her attack against the giant fist looming towards her did nothing meaningful, it didn't stop the fist or take it down.
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Gaara and Ay were fighting defensively, unable to take down any of their clones.
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The only other kage who had been able to take down clones was Oonoki. So Tsunade, was only using Taijutsu despite being sloppy accomplished a feat 3 of the other gokage couldn't. This is the context of her sloppiness. Which allows us to describe the level of taijutsu she must have been using. Now we observe only 4 susanoo in that picture with one of them down.
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Which leaves 3 active susanoo. Now a few moments later we saw all 5 of them up again, so while Tsunade didn't put the susanoo down for the final count (no one did until super jinton) she managed to temporarily disable two out of the 5 Susanoo clones she was fighting.
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Now extrapolating the combat prowess we can demonstrably show Tsunade displayed during the Madara battle, should she engage Kukazu in CQC, nothing suggests that he can handle that level of combat. The best Kakuzu could do alone would be to release his hearts. We would again be talking about a possible five vs 1 setting. With Susanoo clones so indestructible that Mei's attacks did nothing and Tsunade's punch only temporarily disabled them. So adept that Ay and Gaara could only try to defend themselves. So quick that a clone was able to pick up Ay. It seems unlikely, that those hearts would be able to decommission Tsunade. They would need to do more damage than the Susanoo Clones, be faster than the clones, and more durable. Which is rather unlikely.
If Kakuzu decided to use jutsus such as Doton Domu, Ranshinsho wrecks. If he uses his threads to try to grab Tsunade likely he grabbed Kakashi she could either Yank his main body towards her and wreck with a punch or she could use her chakra scalpel to simply julienne the threads. Or if the threads are connected to his nervous system... again Ranshinsho.
Tsunade outclasses Kakuzu in every regard.
In this scenario we are assuming that Deidara and Kakuzu split up as that would be the wisest course of action (I'll explain why later). That leaves 10% of Katsuyu and Sakura to pressure Deidara. Deidara cannot win a battle of attrition because he is limited to the amount of clay that he has and the amount of chakra in his arsenal. C0 was just enough to kill Manda, which implies to me that Deidara wouldn't have enough fire power to take out 10% of Katsuyu. Nextly, like her master Sakura can leap to quite high levels very quickly. What makes C2 particularly devastating are the landmines which tobi plants. Without Tobi however, the landmine element is removed from play. When utilizing C2 Deidara was flying just out of Sasuke's range which was 5M 5 meters is nothing.
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If we switch out those Wind Shuriken for Zeshi Nensan (which is much less linear than the shuriken and is much larger attack that covers a much greater AoE making it significantly harder to avoid) then if Deidara manages to dodge the acid which he'd have to dedicate some attention to, he'd be open for a Sakura to bound into the air and shanaroo punch him.
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Furthermore, as C1 & C2 was not enough to kill him.
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it'd be unlikely to put down a byakugou user
Add to that that Deidara isn't the most reflexive flier
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It shouldn't take much more than that to take out Deidara.
Yes. Indeed you said this and maybe you missed it but i replied by asking: 'If Gaara had 'prepped' sand underground at that point in time, why didn't he use it then to execute sand coffin but opt to use his personal sand?' The sand at kimmimaro's feet was created at that moment to only hold him in place for Suna Shigure to fall and wrap him in Sand coffin.
No the sand coffin was from underground. That was Gaara's whole strategy the Suna Shigure was really only to distract Kimi so Gaara could grab him from under. You can see
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that the sand coffin came from underground since most of the suna Shigure had not even reached Kimi yet, yes they added to the sand coffin but most came from underground.
Plus the fact that Gaara was planning on using a strategy like this shows you he was prepping sand underground.
I'm sorry but Lee makes no mention of Gaara needing his own sand to break down rocks in the scan you posted.
Databook explains it.
NINJUTSU; Ryuusa Bakuryuu (Desert Quicksand Cascading Stream*)
User: Gaara
Offensive; Close, Medium, Long ranges; Rank: none
Main text
From the sand he is himself carrying, he grinds the rocks and minerals from underground into an homogenous sea of sand and manipulates it like a tsunami that engulfs absolutely all things in his line of sight!! This jutsu is for no one except Gaara, who lives up to his "Of the Desert*" namesake. This raging sea deals a lot of damage by itself, but one can further take advantage of the sand for a second and a third consecutive assault! That sublime succession of sand attacks has this jutsu as its starting point!!
@bold..isn't that what most of the anime is like? Kisame was able to create a large body of water in seconds. Madara somehow summoned two meteors. Tobirama can create large bodies of water in the absence of any water in seconds. Hashirama and Madara can create a forest in seconds. Yamato can build a house in seconds. It's seemingly all about chakra potency.
They make everything with chakra. Gaara has never shown to make sand out of chakra if he did he wouldnt need the gourd or to break down minerals.
The battle starts in chapter 215 pg 10, Gaara finally catches kimi and uses sand coffin pg 16, Kimi walks out of sand coffin pg 17 and Gaara unleashes sand tsunami pg 18.
You are using an assumption that Gaara would decide to prep sand because he would have felt his sand coffin (which was his strongest displayed technique at the time and only defeated just once by Naruto) won't be enough to deal with him. How can you arrive at this? He knew absolutely nothing about Kimmimaro apart from the little Lee told him.
You are literally asking why would Gaara prepare to battle. You always needs a plan B in case something goes wrong. Why wouldnt he prep an even stronger technique?
Why does Gaara keep an extra layer of sand on his body? To prepare in case he comes across an opponent who could potentially kill him.
Everyone seems to agree with this. But what's special about Gaara's personal sand? Chakra. Chakra is what is needed to perform all jutsu. It's basically the chakra in his sand that helps break down rocks.
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He doesn't have personal sand in the scans above but he's still able to create and manipulate sand.
@bold..what?
Gaara grinds down rocks with sand not chakra. DB explains that. Suna is literally made of sand and is located in a desert, There is sand everywhere.
Shukaku is what saved him and nigh instantly turned rock into sand. Gaara never showed the ability to do that not even in part 2.
Whoa. First;
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Bottom part. Gaara's division was ordered to retreat and retreat they did.
Chapter 546 page 7
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After retreating throughout the night, Ohnoki states they can't retreat any further and should initiate contact with their long range attacks from there. In the same scan Mu comments the alliance had been retreating slowly and seemed to have made up their minds. (P.S Notice the rocky terrain the Edo kages and Kages[Gaara and Ohnoki] are in).
Chapter 546 page 8 Gigantic sand tsunami
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1. Bijuu-less Gaara.
2. Rocky terrain. (Land of Lightning)
3. If they had been retreating all along, how could Gaara have prepped the sand he used for the tsunami?
4. What does Gaara's father do? Create gold dust in the same amount as the tsunami instantly.
Argumentum ad Ignorantiam: (appeal to ignorance) the fallacy that a proposition is true simply on the basis that it has not been proved false or that it is false simply because it has not been proved true
No it is suggesting that Gaara knew that Naruto was on the Retrieval team. Along with other shinobi he witnesses to be strong. Which gives him no reason to stride in over confidently as the leaf assessed the power of those ninja to be inadequate and requested the Sand send back up.
What Kiba almost beating Naruto does mean, is that Kiba is a formidable ninja on the same mission as other formidable ninjas, who need backup... Yes, Gaara did note that Lee was doing absolutely nothing and that Lee wasn't at his full strength. But Noting that Lee wasn't at full strength really only matters to not prepping if Lee had done anything meaningful to Kimmimaro
One question..do you honestly think at that time the 'Genin' rank was an appropriate rank for Gaara?
Moving on, I honestly don't know why you keep bringing these up. Formidable genin? Gaara was literally stronger than all of them. You honestly think Gaara would have compared his strength to anyone else other than Naruto? He'll compare himself to Kiba and Shikamaru? Please don't forget at that point, Gaara was a jinchuriki. Large chakra pool that most definitely can't be compared to ordinary genin.
He had killed 6 ninja's who made an attempt at taking his life. The word used was assassination meaning those ninja's were all probably ranked higher than Jounin's. And that's just the assassins..he also killed Dosu, killed those ninjas in the forest of death..etc. What jutsu did he use to kill all those people? Sand coffin. His obvious signature move at the time. It was also stated in the forest of death that his personal sand reeked of blood buttressing the fact that it was more or less his signature move.
Now what you're suggesting is that Gaara would get on the battlefield and immediately start prepping sand because Konoha looked to have sent out a strong genin team comprising of 90% members he was undoubtedly stronger than? Let's factor in the fact Konoha had seen the sound four in action and given the sand siblings info about them, they wouldn't have given them any info about Kimi because he literally joined the sasuke escort team far later.
To then assume Gaara reaching the battlefield and seeing an opponent for the first time, knowing absolutely nothing about him, but thinks he'll be able to escape his sand coffin -which was his signature move at the time- and starts prepping sand in anticipation is almost bordering on ridiculous.
No it's not too advanced. I wouldn't even call it advanced. It's a principle you could derive on your own with no knowledge of logic. If I were to stated that you don't know the word "reality" because I've never seen you use the word I just committed Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. You could easily point out the fallacy in my thinking without knowing what the fallacy is called. You immediately went into argumentum ad absurdum. The absence of evidence simply is not the evidence of absence. Theorhetically Hyuuga could use Chidori as well as Kakashi with the caveat that he was taught the jutsu and extensively trained.But nothing suggests that,the manga seems to show that the Hyuuga prefer to train their own, thus Hiashi having no interest in training Hinata was painful. Thus, we could reason that a Hyuuga cannot use Raikiri as well as Kakashi
@underlined why add that? I'm talking about an hypothetical adult hyuuga with lightning affinity. Young dojutsuless kakashi created that jutsu. It wouldn't be hard for the hypothetical hyuuga to learn on his own.
@Bold nothing suggests that? Why? Because there is no evidence to prove it? Based on the bolded part of the definition i placed on top, isn't this Argumentum ad Ignoratium?
@combo that is probably how it is in every clan. But it doesn't stop them from training with outsiders or learning on their own. Hinata training with team 8..Neji training with team Gai etc
Gaara's Sand first made contact with the ground in Chapter 212, nothing suggests he didn't immediately start prepping Sand. We are in agreement that the sand which Grabbed Kimmimaro's foot wasn't sand from his gourd. But what we're disagreeing about is that Gaara had plenty of time to make the sand that he did create. If you ignore when Gaara's sand first came in contact with the ground I could understand how you'd get to the conclusion that it happened instantly. That simply isn't supported however.
I will reply with the same analogy I used earlier.
Now, why wouldn't Gaara unleash the sand immediately as he creates it?
If one has unlimited hands one could utilize unlimited hammers
The more hammers one has and the quicker they can deconstruct a solid.
Therefore the more hands the faster solids can be deconstructed.
Now to simplify what I mean
The more Sand Gaara the greater area he could cover
The greater area he can cover, the more stone he could crush
Therefore The more Sand Gaara has the more stones he could crush, which results in more sand quicker. It's basic investment theory where the created sand is the compound interest.
@underlined fact that Gaara knew absolutely nothing about his opponent including not knowing he could escape sand coffin should prove he wouldn't have started making excess sand the moment he got there. Nothing suggests that with lack of info about his opponent in 212, he'll have started prepping sand as a counter for having sand coffin countered.
@bold I agree with your idea of why he won't use all the sand at once if he was prepping sand but my question was; if he truly was prepping sand, why didn't he use part of the prepped sand for sand coffin? The amount needed to do that pales in comparison to the sea of sand he unleashed moments later. Why use his personal sand?
I'd like to see a scan of the bold. Again you're recycling arguments I've already countered so I will go back to where I countered them and paste them here. I will now expound on this. Is it a process to create sand? Yes. What are the fastest speeds we've seen Gaara's Sand handle? If Gaara's sand moves at its fastest observed speed to break down rocks, how much time would it take to break down tons I mean tons as the measurement, of rocks. See, it doesn't logically make sense that the process occurs instantly given everything we've seen from Gaara
I'm sorry i can't provide a direct scan. But here's one commenting on its speed
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Gaara's sand is fast. The people he was using it against were also evading. The rocks basically just sit there.
In a desert, there are sand storms, and wind blows and generally sand gets everywhere. Literally everywhere in every crevice, nook, and cranny. So Gaara pulling sand off the roof is hardly worth mentioning. That amount of Sand is hardly comprable to Sand Tsunami especially as it wasn't he who actively created this sand for his protection
You are arguing that Gaara with no Sand present created Sand... but he was Surround by sand in every way. There was Sand everywhere that he could utilize.
Yes. I do believe Gaara can create sand without any sand present but that wasn't what i was arguing with the scans. You asked if we had seen Gaara use sand that wasn't from his gourd and i replied with those scans.
Kisame spat out the water he used. He created Water much like Katons and Raitons are created. Turning his chakra directly into Water. Gaara was explained to use a different process entirely. Hashirama and Madara as examples area stretch aren't they? I mean Hashirama was considered a fairytale for that display of power. Something the 5 kage marveled at when Madara did, suggesting that none of them is capable of anything of that magnitude. As far as Yamato's house feat, I do recall that. I would point out that not only is his process completely different than Gaara's not lending it to comparison, but that houses are hollow structures meaning that it is significantly less work than say a Sand Tsunami
What? Doesn't Yamato have to worry about dimensions and what not? You know what? tell me how exactly you think Gaara's sand breaks down the rocks. I gather all that happens is immediately his chakra infused sand touches a rock, it pulverizes it instantly. If chakra can turn into water instantly, why can't chakra pulverize rock instantly?
Nope. The battle started at 212. Also what I'm presuming is that Gaara was aware this was a mission that jounin should be sent on. Which is something that was absolutely conveyed based on all the mission briefings we've seen.
If Gaara can mix his chakra into the sand he created by crushing stones, it's not a leap to believe that he can mix his chakra with sand already present.
@bold. You know what? this scan takes place after the sand tsunami
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Kimi clearly kicks Gaara a ways from where he unleashed sand tsunami which you state was prepped sand.
In this new location way behind Gaara's original position, he creates his ultimate defense and does this almost consecutively;
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200metres. That is extremely deep. he'll have had to crush the rocks all the way down for Kimi to slide down smoothly. And the context shows he did that instantly btw.
Please don't say it was from sand that he prepped for the tsunami cause then you'll be saying;
- He assumed Kimi would be able to survive the large scale crush from the tsunami and didn't unleash all the sand he created
- Despite all the Earth under and in front of him, he decided to crush earth from way behind him when he was supposedly prepping sand tsunami.
I'm just going to quote myself again I'm not a huge fan of repeating myself. Prefacing this with the fact that Gaara is still in a desert.
I'm sorry but the fourth shinobi world war didn't take place in a desert. It took place in the Land of lightning and Land of frost based on the fact that the Daimyo's of the land were shown being evacuated. A desert was never mentioned.
Gaara's division had been retreating sideways for a while. They were basically backing off. They were never at a spot for too long if not the Edo Kage's would have caught up. Mu also stated this. As i posted above, in chapter 546 page 7 Gaara and Ohnoki decide they should stop retreating and attack from there. In the very next page(page 8) a sand tsunami was greeting the Edo Kage's. How could Gaara have prepped this when he was retreating with the division he was commander of? The fact they were retreating shows they weren't at a spot for long and it wasn't a desert. The entire area was rocky.
Considering that Gaara's dad using a similar type of jutsu with Gold dust created a sea of gold dust to match that volume
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instantly, i fail to see how you can still keep the opinion the technique needs prep. Or do you seriously assume Rasa had that tsunami of gold dust prepped too?
Based on real life processes, it would take longer to get gold dust from rocks than it would to get just sand.
I think he was suggesting that instantly turning all of the boulders falling towards him into sand would have thoroughly neutralized the threat and made a sand wall unnecessary. Though my argument revolves more around Madara's final katon. If it requires no prep, he should have instantly had a defense up.
lol what? Turning falling rubble into sand makes more sense than using your own chakra infused sand to create a sand wall to just guard the people in the room?
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you must do it when there is a simpler solution.
@Bold limited knowledge on Madara. No idea what you're talking about.
Temari didn't immediately prep KKM as soon as she got to the battlefield, what evidence is there that Gaara started prepping sand right when he got there?
