The casting of a black actress as Hermione from Harry Potter

[chopstickchakra]

I'm afraid this isn't how morals work. What you are trying to do is simplify morals into boxes of black and white, when the entire concept of morality in the bigger picture includes patches of grey. Taking a life, stealing, hitting someone, changing characteristics of a character(race, gender, sexuality), none of them are cut and dry. All have gray areas that cannot be ignored.

You say that it's not right to increase representation at the expense of others. The thing is, this isn't an expense to white people, or at least, any existing expense to them is 100% negligible. If they were to print a black Batman comic tomorrow, is that really an expense to white people? You really would sit here and tell me that that one comic would put a dent into 77 years of comics featuring white Batman that we would have to go "Eh, maybe we shouldn't?" Your view is very narrow and you're refusing to look at the bigger picture for the sake of simplicity in a topic that is anything but simple.

This video by the Nostalgia Critic shows the complexity of the topic and quite frankly, if you can't approach the topic with regards to its level of complexity and you just try to reduce it to two boxes of universally right or universally wrong, I don't think you have a place in the conversation.

[video=youtube;1WUdQpuVRtw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WUdQpuVRtw[/video]


Of course not. Which is why we also look at "How much does the side now not being represented have to lose?" And the answer is, white people have nothing to lose. Zip. Zero, from a couple black James Bonds or black Hermoines or black Batmans. And that is why it is fine, because even if there is expense, it's not significant, accountable, or relevant. It simply does not matter because whites have generations upon generations upon generations of legitimate representation to fall back on. Minorities simply do not have that same luxury.


This doesn't make sense. Having one black James Bond run in the near future wouldn't be "taking James Bond for themselves" because they have 10 other white James Bonds in films over the span of 26 movies and half a century. If you think one film run of a few movies will take away half a century's worth of movies and make James Bond "just for blacks," then you have to go.

Same thing goes for one play featuring a black Hermoine. Or a black Batman. Not to mention the countless other white characters that have accompanied these single characters. There are 772 Harry Potter characters, you know how many are black? Five. Out of 772 characters, five of them were explicitly stated or implied to be black while the rest are assumed white. That's 0.6% of the population of Harry Potter as presented to us being black, while the actual number is 3%. I just googled the cast of the Harry Potter movies and the sidebar list had 53 people(there are definitely more.) Out of this list, 3 were minorities with 2 blacks and 1 Asian. And making one more black will be "taking it for themselves?" You're 100% mental if you actually try to say that again.



When I googled the character, it said he was born in an Asian country.


It still doesn't justify the overwhelming gap between white and black representation.



Once again because whites have nothing to lose. China and most Asian countries aren't a kettlepot of cultures like America is. They simply aren't as diverse, so it's more fitting for them to have all-Asian casts, while American media have far less representation than what is actually reflected by the population.



Wrong. It's not about "Whites have done it to us, so let's do it to them." It's about the fact that in the establishment of white supremacist oppression in the United States, the media was one weapon used. Methods of representation for a long time in the United States was used to create a gap between representation of whites and minorities in the media, which was used to perpetuate the rhetoric of white supremacy. In simple terms, propaganda.

Making a white character black now isn't done because "let's see how you like it," it's done to rectify that gap and to rectify that method of representation. Current race changes are done as a response to historical injustices because those historical injustices still continue to have effects in current times, as evident by the fact that there is still an overwhelmingly inexcusable gap in representation.


Irrelevant to what I'm saying.

Yeah I'm not gonna keep arguing with you about your hypocrisy because you've already proven resistant to acknowledge it. I'll touch on a few points and that'll be that.

I'm not against making characters other races, John Stewart was one of my favorite GL's but that's not the same as if they tried to make Hal Jordan black. Black Batman is fine, there's been other Batman before, Black 007 cool, it's just a code name but a black Bruce Wayne or James bond is a different story. If they made another movie about slavery and cast Chinese instead of black no big deal right because Chinese were enslaved in US too, but if they remade roots with a Chinese cast and still called the character Kunta Kinte that wouldn't sit right would it? And it's not solely because there's then less representation, it's also because it's changing something that groups of people connect with on a personal level which is trying to be altered to reach new groups.

For the record Danny Rand was a white American born to another white American who was infatuated with finding a mythical city called K'un L'un which is heavily influenced by Asian culture, particularly Japanese culture. That's where most of the confusion comes from, they hear about K'un L'un and just assume Danny should also look Asian despite not actually coming from there. Hell the city in the comic isn't even technically of this Earth it just appears here every so often. The mantle Iron Fist originates there which Danny wears now so we could, and have in the comic, see an Asian Iron Fist but not Danny Rand, part of his story is the struggle of acceptance among a people who view him as an outsider in every way and if that person looked like them it would take away part of the significance of not judging those on appearances that this title/character tried to impart on readers in the early 70's.

Your argument is the equivalent of going to a picnic with 2 pies seeing a table with 10 and saying give us 4 of those so we're equal. Sure the sums are equal but is the effort? I get why that'd be the route most would pick, it's easier, it's hard to make good new characters but it can be done; Static was one of my favorite Saturday morning cartoons, as I said John Stewart is my 2nd fav Lantern, John Diggle is the best part of Arrow. A problem is we need more black creators who for whatever reason don't seem to be interested in introducing themselves to the fields. How many black authors or directors or producers are there? How many are trying to get in? There's plenty of wealthy black people who could start a production company to help alleviate this lack of representation but how many are? But instead we yell at the white owned studios for not breaking a proven fiscal gaining mold in search of the moral high ground. You don't like how whites depict blacks but you want them to do it more and you don't put any attention on the lack of black owned production companies that could help the effort. I'm done, bye bye.

 

[Power Bottom]

Lmfao funny you'd be the first one crying if this were the other way around. People get mad when the same actor isn't even cast, for example when Matt Damon wasn't in the last Bourne, or how Hugh Jackman won't be playing Wolverine in the future. It's hard enough in those cases to pretend everything's the same and continue on, but now the race changed too, not even the wildest imagination can make you believe that just happened. It's a play though so I couldn't care less, makes more sense actually.

It already happens it is called whitewashing history. Having the Egyptians be white in movies to please the white public and other bs


What you said has no relevancy Hermione was never stated to be white. Fictional character =/= movie character. The only issue people have is her skin color. If this was some Becky with blonde hair and a Victoria secrets model shaped body. No one would care


All this is showing are people racial bias. And I'm not here for some justifications for this mess.

 

[Marin]

All this controversy and I'm still laughing at the fact that Will Smith played a black man in black. :sdo:

 

[chopstickchakra]

I just like how people complain when a black person plays a "white role" but when it is the opposite. No one is crying

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Her ass was never stated to be white so the fake cries can stay inside

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The fact people care so much is sickening

The problem with taking Rowlings word now is she's gone on record about multiple things she would have changed. In Prisoner of Azkaban there's a quote that says "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree" and "They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue's Ice Cream Parlor -- Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him." Now if she were black she'd always be "very brown" so what would be the significance of saying this after seeing her return from a summer vacation? If anything saying that knowing she's black would make Harry a bit of an *******. Then there's the sketch by Rowling.

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[Zerox553]

Yeah I'm not gonna keep arguing with you about your hypocrisy because you've already proven resistant to acknowledge it. I'll touch on a few points and that'll be that.

I'm not against making characters other races, John Stewart was one of my favorite GL's but that's not the same as if they tried to make Hal Jordan black. Black Batman is fine, there's been other Batman before, Black 007 cool, it's just a code name but a black Bruce Wayne or James bond is a different story. If they made another movie about slavery and cast Chinese instead of black no big deal right because Chinese were enslaved in US too, but if they remade roots with a Chinese cast and still called the character Kunta Kinte that wouldn't sit right would it? And it's not solely because there's then less representation, it's also because it's changing something that groups of people connect with on a personal level which is trying to be altered to reach new groups.

For the record Danny Rand was a white American born to another white American who was infatuated with finding a mythical city called K'un L'un which is heavily influenced by Asian culture, particularly Japanese culture. That's where most of the confusion comes from, they hear about K'un L'un and just assume Danny should also look Asian despite not actually coming from there. Hell the city in the comic isn't even technically of this Earth it just appears here every so often. The mantle Iron Fist originates there which Danny wears now so we could, and have in the comic, see an Asian Iron Fist but not Danny Rand, part of his story is the struggle of acceptance among a people who view him as an outsider in every way and if that person looked like them it would take away part of the significance of not judging those on appearances that this title/character tried to impart on readers in the early 70's.

Your argument is the equivalent of going to a picnic with 2 pies seeing a table with 10 and saying give us 4 of those so we're equal. Sure the sums are equal but is the effort? I get why that'd be the route most would pick, it's easier, it's hard to make good new characters but it can be done; Static was one of my favorite Saturday morning cartoons, as I said John Stewart is my 2nd fav Lantern, John Diggle is the best part of Arrow. A problem is we need more black creators who for whatever reason don't seem to be interested in introducing themselves to the fields. How many black authors or directors or producers are there? How many are trying to get in? There's plenty of wealthy black people who could start a production company to help alleviate this lack of representation but how many are? But instead we yell at the white owned studios for not breaking a proven fiscal gaining mold in search of the moral high ground. You don't like how whites depict blacks but you want them to do it more and you don't put any attention on the lack of black owned production companies that could help the effort. I'm done, bye bye.

A logical response.

 

[lndra]

Eh who cares.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah I'm not gonna keep arguing with you about your hypocrisy because you've already proven resistant to acknowledge it. I'll touch on a few points and that'll be that.

It'd only be hypocrisy if whites and minorities stood to gain and lose the same amount from swapping the race of characters. The fact is that they do not.

I also notice that you seem to think that me not agreeing with you in a debate, that me not conceding to your points, somehow reflects that my arguments are invalid. I acknowledge what you say, I just think you're wrong. That isn't a blight on my part, it's how debates work.

I'm not against making characters other races, John Stewart was one of my favorite GL's but that's not the same as if they tried to make Hal Jordan black. Black Batman is fine, there's been other Batman before, Black 007 cool, it's just a code name but a black Bruce Wayne or James bond is a different story.

No it's not. Being white has never been a central part of James Bond's or Bruce Wayne's characters. If you were to make Bruce Wayne black, it would not change the core of his character in any way. That makes it 100% fine to make Bruce Wayne black. James Bond, black or white, will still be the suave secret agent that kicks ass, rebels a bit, and pushes women to have uncomfortable ***.

If they made another movie about slavery and cast Chinese instead of black no big deal right because Chinese were enslaved in US too, but if they remade roots with a Chinese cast and still called the character Kunta Kinte that wouldn't sit right would it?

Absolutely incorrect. This wouldn't be the same as making Bruce Wayne black because:

1. Kunta Kinte being black is part of the core of his character and the story of Roots because it's about the Atlantic Slave Trade.

2. The Atlantic Slave Trade is historically the trafficking of Africans to the New World. To make them Chinese would be historically and factually inaccurate.

The fact that Batman and James Bond are 100% fabricated characters in stories and settings that are also fabricated means that changing details about them(so long as their core characters remain the same) would not be the same as making people that were FACTUALLY BLACK IN THE REAL WORLD AND ITS HISTORY Asian. The fact that you think the two are even remotely even just shows how narrowmindedly you're viewing this topic.

And it's not solely because there's then less representation, it's also because it's changing something that groups of people connect with on a personal level which is trying to be altered to reach new groups.

If you can't connect with Bruce Wayne after the only thing to be changed about him is that he went from white to black, then your original connection to him is as weak as your viewpoint.

For the record Danny Rand was a white American born to another white American who was infatuated with finding a mythical city called K'un L'un which is heavily influenced by Asian culture, particularly Japanese culture. That's where most of the confusion comes from, they hear about K'un L'un and just assume Danny should also look Asian despite not actually coming from there. Hell the city in the comic isn't even technically of this Earth it just appears here every so often. The mantle Iron Fist originates there which Danny wears now so we could, and have in the comic, see an Asian Iron Fist but not Danny Rand, part of his story is the struggle of acceptance among a people who view him as an outsider in every way and if that person looked like them it would take away part of the significance of not judging those on appearances that this title/character tried to impart on readers in the early 70's.

Then keep him white. This doesn't mean Hermoine can't be black.

Your argument is the equivalent of going to a picnic with 2 pies seeing a table with 10 and saying give us 4 of those so we're equal.

This isn't even remotely close to true. My argument would be the equivalent of two families who go to a picnic for generations and are given food by an authority figure with one family having 300% of the food they need to live and the other family having 10% of the food they need to live, so they demand 10% extra food that comes out of the 300% food from the first family over a few generations until they both have the same.

Your argument is the equivalent of giving these two scenarios the same punishment:

1. Person A kills person B because Person B tried to rape Person A

2. Person C kills Person D because Person D said he didn't like chicken nuggets.

After all, the entire scope of the issue isn't what matters, just that the result is the same, right?

Sure the sums are equal but is the effort?

And now you're starting to grasp how to properly look at this. The fact that the sums are equal but the what creates the sums aren't is what matters, not that the sums are equal. In simple terms so you fully get it, it doesn't matter that both equal less representation, what matters is how the less representation were attained, what effect the process has as it's completed.

 

[slimreaper]

The argument that White's dominating history somehow makes us deserving of discrimination(in the name of un measurable equality and goals that can't be accomplished) is the definition of racism. White people want to see white people, just like 96% of black people voted for Obama and the vast majority thought OJ was innocent just for being black. Your racism is ok apparently.


What exactly is the benefit to anyone besides the one minority actor for getting that role?

 

[Tarkatower]

black hermione gotta have attitude

 

[Im Still Robin]

1. No
2. No

The problem is that you cannot call everyone who doesn't like the sudden change in the character (who was portrayed by white person for 15 years) racist.

You can if they don't particularly like the person being black opposed to any other color.
Skin color doesn't matter idc if you don't like it or not.

Ann was recently changed to a little black girl instead of a little white girl.
It's fine and will continue to be changed.

 

[Callypigia]

Honestly, I could care less about Harry Potter. She created the characters, and she should have the right to the change artistic interpretation of her own work. That said, on a personal level I prefer consistency. She should have made that character black to start with.

 

[Mari Makinami]

I just like how people complain when a black person plays a "white role" but when it is the opposite. No one is crying

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Her ass was never stated to be white so the fake cries can stay inside

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The fact people care so much is sickening

@bold: It's not like I really care about this whole matter, but you're wrong, and so is Rowling.

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[Flakez]

They could've at least picked a better looking actress. I mean what the hell is this.. there's much better looking black actresses out there.

 

[Richard Lucifer]

The problem with taking Rowlings word now is she's gone on record about multiple things she would have changed. In Prisoner of Azkaban there's a quote that says "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree" and "They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue's Ice Cream Parlor -- Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him." Now if she were black she'd always be "very brown" so what would be the significance of saying this after seeing her return from a summer vacation? If anything saying that knowing she's black would make Harry a bit of an *******. Then there's the sketch by Rowling.

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That's not a white lady, it looks a retarded mummy.

 

[chopstickchakra]

That's not a white lady, it looks a retarded mummy.

No one ever said she was an artist.

 

[Richard Lucifer]

No one ever said she was an artist.

Or it's just your typical American artwork.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Or it's just your typical American artwork.

What does that even mean? You know how many different artists there are? what is "typical" American artwork? Also she's British.

 

[Richard Lucifer]

What does that even mean? You know how many different artists there are? what is "typical" American artwork? Also she's British.

It means Europeans suck at art whereas Asians rule at it.

 

[chopstickchakra]

It means Europeans suck at art whereas Asians rule at it.

Do you think Americans are European now? Do tell me of the magnificent Kazakhstan art or the great Buhtan and Kuwait art.

 

[Richard Lucifer]

Do you think Americans are European now? Do tell me of the magnificent Kazakhstan art or the great Buhtan and Kuwait art.

What do you think?