The casting of a black actress as Hermione from Harry Potter

Punk Hazard

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The fact that you refuse to see the hypocrisy of celebrating racial change in one aspect and demonizing it on the other is the worrisome part. I heard the same argument with Danny Rand, how is it oppressive to make a white guy do martial arts? How is it progressive to steal a character for your own?
It's not as black and white as you are making it out to be, no pun intended. It's not as cut and dry as "racial is change is bad or good." It depends on the context and the character.

Making a white character black increases the representation of black people in the media. A black James Bond, a black Batman, a black whatever, it accomplishes that there is now one more black person representing black people in the media.

Historically, black characters have been underrepresented, and when they were included, they were reduced to stereotypes or caricatures for a very long time. Making iconic, respected characters black is one way of stepping forward towards having respected, iconic black characters. Another is creating completely new characters, and while that's a bigger step, the former is still one worth taking.

The Danny Rand issue isn't because it's a white guy doing martial arts, it's taking a character who's Asian and making him white. How many Asian actors and characters can you count who have been in major movies in leading roles over the past ten years? Now compare that to the same category but white actors. It's an issue of representation. To put it bluntly, white people have enough representation. More than enough, while minorities like blacks, Asians, Native Americans and Indians have wayyyysss to go to reaching the same level of representation.

Like I said, thousand dollars, millionaire, poor person.
Also what kind of world are you trying to live in where you judge present day people's intent based on the intentions of people with similar skin they have no actual connection to and may or may not even be related to them from the past? You sound like your back in the day; white people wear "black clothing styles" "You can't wear what we do, appropriation" you sound like the old racists who didn't want the "lessers"thinking they were similar and dressing the same.
What the **** are you talking about?
 

Deadlift

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You all can't deny Emma is way hotter than the new actress. Regardless of the skin
 

BlacLord™

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You all can't deny Emma is way hotter than the new actress. Regardless of the skin

The problem for me is that this change is so contrived and contradictory to previous material. It wouldn't have mattered if Hermione were actually black, but this is just a forced attempt to include minorities - at the cost of accuracy.
 

HashiraMadara

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Yes, because one of those is historically progressive and the other is historically oppressive.

I will ignore the fact that you ignored the fact that I wrote "MCU" :|, yeah I'll be pretend that I never saw that...
 

HashiraMadara

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You all can't deny Emma is way hotter than the new actress. Regardless of the skin

An elderly woman compared to a kid in her 20s about beauty, I am f*cking leaving this planet

















































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Natsu Shazneel

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DUMEZWENI????????

WTF??? What's with these south africans taking over! "dumezweni" = "xhosa"/"nguni" "king T'chaka" in avangers = "xhosa"





OTT: Unbelieveable!! I am used to someone being that way! Why change it XD

Why black james bond??? because in my brain I have created a white nuttcracker from England as 007...

If a character is someone never change it XDXD I would struggle to envision a white Nick Fury in MCU now that Sam jackson took over.



Becareful the FBI is watching. :bdpf:


OT: I haven't watched Harry Potter since movie 3 but I must say this is quiet pathetic. Why change a character's race after coming so far? Or better yet why make a new Harry Potter movie when you already got couple of successful ones? I strongly believe this new movie will fail compared to the last ones. This new change is no good.
 

chopstickchakra

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It's not as black and white as you are making it out to be, no pun intended. It's not as cut and dry as "racial is change is bad or good." It depends on the context and the character.

Making a white character black increases the representation of black people in the media. A black James Bond, a black Batman, a black whatever, it accomplishes that there is now one more black person representing black people in the media.

Historically, black characters have been underrepresented, and when they were included, they were reduced to stereotypes or caricatures for a very long time. Making iconic, respected characters black is one way of stepping forward towards having respected, iconic black characters. Another is creating completely new characters, and while that's a bigger step, the former is still one worth taking.

The Danny Rand issue isn't because it's a white guy doing martial arts, it's taking a character who's Asian and making him white. How many Asian actors and characters can you count who have been in major movies in leading roles over the past ten years? Now compare that to the same category but white actors. It's an issue of representation. To put it bluntly, white people have enough representation. More than enough, while minorities like blacks, Asians, Native Americans and Indians have wayyyysss to go to reaching the same level of representation.

Like I said, thousand dollars, millionaire, poor person.

Nobody's saying more representation is a bad thing, well ok some are but I'm not, I'm saying representation at the expense of another is a bad way to approach it and that goes for any way; female to male, male to female white to color, color to white, color 1 to color 2. You can't cherry pick when you want your morals to apply, it's either wrong to steal characters or it isn't. Just because it grants more representation in the end doesn't mean the way path there was the best one. If it were truly solely about boosting representation people wouldn't be so adamant about taking established characters for themselves.

The character isn't Asian, he is White. What are you talking about? Also you're talking about representation on a global scale but not considering where the films you're mentioning come from. Hollywood is US so it's going to be reflective of US before it's reflective of the world. I don't see anyone calling out Chinese studios for using all Asian casts, no cry for representation in that market. No one's saying they have less representation the issue is the favored methods of gaining that representation are the exact issues complained about when done from the other side.

What the **** are you talking about?

You said it was historically oppressive and progressive. So you were basing your feelings and judging the intent of current race changes on historical injustices. The mentality you presented towards the issue is they did it first so it's ok that we do it now. I then compared that mentality to the mentality of old racists who didn't want black, latino, Asian etc. people wearing the same clothes they did because they felt like those people were trying to assimilate into their culture, which is similar to how some people react to white people in styles they deem part of black culture, like the lady who attacked a guy for having dreadlocks.
 

Punk Hazard

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"ironic because Nick Fury was originally white" <=== ignored the fact that I wrote "MCU"


give me a scan of a white MCU nick fury

Ahh you didn't quote the right post. Which, I see, you completely missed the point of. You say that "If a character is something, never change it," and that Sam Jackson is now what you've linked as the image of Nick Fury because of your exposure to him in the MCU. But what of people who were exposed to white Nick Fury in the comics before the MCU? Now what they envision as the character is completely different from what is being presented to them. This would be the same problem if suddenly the MCU started over with a white Nick Fury.

It's ironic that you say "I wouldn't want Nick Fury to be made white in the MCU because it's not the image of the character I've established for myself and has been presented to me," when the image of the character presented to you is not what was originally presented and what many have established for themselves. It's ironic because you've been able to appreciate and associate with the character despite the fact that his origins were different from what you picture him as now, despite the fact that the character was someone and they changed it, even though you are using them as an argument for why "if a character is someone, [they should] never [be] change[d]."

You say you're against this kind of raceswapping even though the character you say would be weird if he were white instead of black was changed from original white to black for this medium. That's why a stage adaptation of Harry Potter books featuring a black Hermoine is fine, the same way movie adaptations of Marvel comic books have a black Nick Fury, and that's not only fine, but it's the Nick Fury you've connected with. Same with James Bond. The movies all exist in separate continuities that are divided by actors, so having a black James Bond would be the same as making comic-book-white-Nick-Fury into movie-black-Nick-Fury.
 

blazekev90

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Becareful the FBI is watching. :bdpf:


OT: I haven't watched Harry Potter since movie 3 but I must say this is quiet pathetic. Why change a character's race after coming so far? Or better yet why make a new Harry Potter movie when you already got couple of successful ones? I strongly believe this new movie will fail compared to the last ones. This new change is no good.

It's a play, not a movie. Read before you speak.
 
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An elderly woman compared to a kid in her 20s about beauty, I am f*cking leaving this planet

















































still looking for logic...




































haven't found it....

















okay got nothing to do


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Wait a minute, there are some older women, like Jennifer Lopez, Scarlett Johansson, Eva Mendes.etc that are more hotter than a youth in her 20s.
 
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An elderly woman compared to a kid in her 20s about beauty, I am f*cking leaving this planet

















































still looking for logic...




































haven't found it....

















okay got nothing to do
Wait a minute, there are some older women, like Jennifer Lopez, Scarlett Johansson, Eva Mendes.etc that are more hotter than a youth in her 20s.
 

Punk Hazard

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Nobody's saying more representation is a bad thing, well ok some are but I'm not, I'm saying representation at the expense of another is a bad way to approach it and that goes for any way; female to male, male to female white to color, color to white, color 1 to color 2. You can't cherry pick when you want your morals to apply, it's either wrong to steal characters or it isn't.
I'm afraid this isn't how morals work. What you are trying to do is simplify morals into boxes of black and white, when the entire concept of morality in the bigger picture includes patches of grey. Taking a life, stealing, hitting someone, changing characteristics of a character(race, gender, sexuality), none of them are cut and dry. All have gray areas that cannot be ignored.

You say that it's not right to increase representation at the expense of others. The thing is, this isn't an expense to white people, or at least, any existing expense to them is 100% negligible. If they were to print a black Batman comic tomorrow, is that really an expense to white people? You really would sit here and tell me that that one comic would put a dent into 77 years of comics featuring white Batman that we would have to go "Eh, maybe we shouldn't?" Your view is very narrow and you're refusing to look at the bigger picture for the sake of simplicity in a topic that is anything but simple.

This video by the Nostalgia Critic shows the complexity of the topic and quite frankly, if you can't approach the topic with regards to its level of complexity and you just try to reduce it to two boxes of universally right or universally wrong, I don't think you have a place in the conversation.

[video=youtube;1WUdQpuVRtw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WUdQpuVRtw[/video]
Just because it grants more representation in the end doesn't mean the way path there was the best one.

Of course not. Which is why we also look at "How much does the side now not being represented have to lose?" And the answer is, white people have nothing to lose. Zip. Zero, from a couple black James Bonds or black Hermoines or black Batmans. And that is why it is fine, because even if there is expense, it's not significant, accountable, or relevant. It simply does not matter because whites have generations upon generations upon generations of legitimate representation to fall back on. Minorities simply do not have that same luxury.

If it were truly solely about boosting representation people wouldn't be so adamant about taking established characters for themselves.
This doesn't make sense. Having one black James Bond run in the near future wouldn't be "taking James Bond for themselves" because they have 10 other white James Bonds in films over the span of 26 movies and half a century. If you think one film run of a few movies will take away half a century's worth of movies and make James Bond "just for blacks," then you have to go.

Same thing goes for one play featuring a black Hermoine. Or a black Batman. Not to mention the countless other white characters that have accompanied these single characters. There are 772 Harry Potter characters, you know how many are black? Five. Out of 772 characters, five of them were explicitly stated or implied to be black while the rest are assumed white. That's 0.6% of the population of Harry Potter as presented to us being black, while the actual number is 3%. I just googled the cast of the Harry Potter movies and the sidebar list had 53 people(there are definitely more.) Out of this list, 3 were minorities with 2 blacks and 1 Asian. And making one more black will be "taking it for themselves?" You're 100% mental if you actually try to say that again.

The character isn't Asian, he is White. What are you talking about?

When I googled the character, it said he was born in an Asian country.

Also you're talking about representation on a global scale but not considering where the films you're mentioning come from. Hollywood is US so it's going to be reflective of US before it's reflective of the world.
It still doesn't justify the overwhelming gap between white and black representation.

I don't see anyone calling out Chinese studios for using all Asian casts, no cry for representation in that market. No one's saying they have less representation the issue is the favored methods of gaining that representation are the exact issues complained about when done from the other side.

Once again because whites have nothing to lose. China and most Asian countries aren't a kettlepot of cultures like America is. They simply aren't as diverse, so it's more fitting for them to have all-Asian casts, while American media have far less representation than what is actually reflected by the population.


You said it was historically oppressive and progressive. So you were basing your feelings and judging the intent of current race changes on historical injustices. The mentality you presented towards the issue is they did it first so it's ok that we do it now.
Wrong. It's not about "Whites have done it to us, so let's do it to them." It's about the fact that in the establishment of white supremacist oppression in the United States, the media was one weapon used. Methods of representation for a long time in the United States was used to create a gap between representation of whites and minorities in the media, which was used to perpetuate the rhetoric of white supremacy. In simple terms, propaganda.

Making a white character black now isn't done because "let's see how you like it," it's done to rectify that gap and to rectify that method of representation. Current race changes are done as a response to historical injustices because those historical injustices still continue to have effects in current times, as evident by the fact that there is still an overwhelmingly inexcusable gap in representation.

I then compared that mentality to the mentality of old racists who didn't want black, latino, Asian etc. people wearing the same clothes they did because they felt like those people were trying to assimilate into their culture, which is similar to how some people react to white people in styles they deem part of black culture, like the lady who attacked a guy for having dreadlocks.
Irrelevant to what I'm saying.
 
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PaperHERO

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"ironic because Nick Fury was originally white" <=== ignored the fact that I wrote "MCU"


give me a scan of a white MCU nick fury

You know Nick Fury is black in the Ultimate marvelverse, right,?
Ultimate Nick Fury made his debut in the comics in 2001
There's no scan of a white MCU Nick Fury because the MCU only applies to the movies.
But there is a white Nick Fury, the original Nick Fury, which would also be canon had they used him for the movies instead of Ultimate's.
 

Power Bottom

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I just like how people complain when a black person plays a "white role" but when it is the opposite. No one is crying

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Her ass was never stated to be white so the fake cries can stay inside

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The fact people care so much is sickening
 
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ToshiZO

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And there you go.





Except it's not the same thing. White people have historically been exponentially more represented more than minorities in the majority of Western art and media. The problem with whitewashing is that you're taking the little representation available to minorities and giving it to Caucasians, who are already highly represented.

The reason it's not a problem when a white character is made black is because whites have little to nothing to lose from doing so, while blacks gain representation because of how little they have, especially when relative to whites.

The difference between making a minority character white and making a white character a minority is the difference between taking a thousand dollars from a poor person to give to a millionaire and taking a thousand dollars from a millionaire to give to a poor person.

I could give two shits about all of that. I'm speaking from an enjoy ability and accuracy perspective. Wouldn't be able to take the movie seriously if they're playing around with the cast like that.

Apparently it's a play though, so quite frankly who cares, if it was a movie then it would be a problem.


I just like how people complain when a black person plays a "white role" but when it is the opposite. No one is crying

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Because some insignificant side character is the same as Hermoine?
 

Power Bottom

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I could give two shits about all of that. I'm speaking from an enjoy ability and accuracy perspective. Wouldn't be able to take the movie seriously if they're playing around with the cast like that.

Apparently it's a play though, so quite frankly who cares, if it was a movie then it would be a problem.




Because some insignificant side character is the same as Hermoine?


Keep on showing your fake tears. She was never stated to be any race



Get over it
 

ToshiZO

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Keep in showing your fake tears



Get over it

Lmfao funny you'd be the first one crying if this were the other way around. People get mad when the same actor isn't even cast, for example when Matt Damon wasn't in the last Bourne, or how Hugh Jackman won't be playing Wolverine in the future. It's hard enough in those cases to pretend everything's the same and continue on, but now the race changed too, not even the wildest imagination can make you believe that just happened. It's a play though so I couldn't care less, makes more sense actually.
 
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