[Discussion] Religion

[nefraiko]

an interesting conference of ahmad deedat about the prophecy of the prophet mohammad in the bible and the thora.

[video=youtube;w-D4xS5Qj6k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-D4xS5Qj6k[/video]

 

[Made in Heaven]

Since when? Isn't Sufism is a mystical-ascetic aspect of Islam, instead of a sect?

Considering they visit the graves of saints and other pious people believing these dead humans can bless them and even intercede for them, yes, calling them a sect is correct, as believing any human having divine powers is wrong in Islam. And so is using a human as an intercession between oneself and God. You're supposed to talk to god directly. Doing so through a medium is prohibited and sinful.

I don't know much about the sects' practices, but doing these two things (asking dead people for blessing and intercession) is not allowed. Plus, they have weird dance rituals and different methods of prayer.

 

[Avani]

Considering they visit the graves of saints and other pious people believing these dead humans can bless them and even intercede for them, yes, calling them a sect is correct, as believing any human having divine powers is wrong in Islam. And so is using a human as an intercession between oneself and God. You're supposed to talk to god directly. Doing so through a medium is prohibited and sinful.

Do all sufi of all the orders do that and only the sufies?

 

[Made in Heaven]

Do all sufi of all the orders do that and only the sufies?

Heck if I know, I just know they do things that aren't allowed in Islam. Heck, some even claim to be in contact with God. They also believe God dwells inside the creation, when he is in fact outside of it, and that the Creator and Creation are one entity.

 

[Marin]

Deadlift still hasn't responded.

You must be registered for see images

It appears you're not only an incompetent debater but also technologically illiterate. Fyi forums offer a form of asynchronous communication which means that just because you have sent a message to someone that doesn't mean that someone is there to see it.

So before you go on to proclaim yourself a winner on the basis of your opponet not being present educate yourself a bit k?

You must be registered for see links

As for your "facts", I'll be delighted to see them. So by all means, share some.

Answer me this, from the perspective of Christianity how can you say other religions such as the big 3 (let's say Islam for example) is not the way

While I am pretty active in topics about religion, I have little interest in inter-religion debates. The focus is on combating atheism and that's what most of my arguments are made for.

My stance on religions is simple yet delicate enough not to degrade them:

"Honor what is yours and respect what is not."

For if I insult other people's faith I am betraying my own.

 

[nefraiko]

[video=youtube;AIUX5nqDHCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUX5nqDHCY[/video]

 

[ComplexCity]

While I am pretty active in topics about religion, I have little interest in inter-religion debates. The focus is on combating atheism and that's what most of my arguments are made for.

My stance on religions is simple yet delicate enough not to degrade them:

"Honor what is yours and respect what is not."

For if I insult other people's faith I am betraying my own.

While I respect your stance on such a mission (don't see why you do), I'll be happy to say it again, people here are stuck in their ways and you're wasting your time. However, you are free to do as you like. I also find it ironic how you're saying that atheism is wrong (referring to your statement about combating) yet won't budge with a question in regards to another's religious faith. I admire your logical stances on your belief but can't comprehend why you won't answer a question similar to what you're trying to do with atheism (a question my curious side would like to have an answer to). And I'm not trying to offend anyone's religion am just curious why people think there faith is the way

 

[Deadlift]

It appears you're not only an incompetent debater but also technologically illiterate. Fyi forums offer a form of asynchronous communication which means that just because you have sent a message to someone that doesn't mean that someone is there to see it.

So before you go on to proclaim yourself a winner on the basis of your opponet not being present educate yourself a bit k?

You must be registered for see links

As for your "facts", I'll be delighted to see them. So by all means, share some.

I said if he didn't do the things I asked I wouldn't even have replied. In fact, I'm replying just because he's making big scenes and being a ain in the ass for everyone. Also, he can't distinguish between "facts" and "insults", so yeah, according to this he stated facts.
He reminds me of Hawker

Deadlift still hasn't responded.

You must be registered for see images

Hey Heisenberg, I love how you feel so passionate in receiving a reply from my part, but really, don't worry!
Everybody on NB who knows me, knows I'm not exactly the kind of a guy who avoids debates, so really, you shouldn't have any problem to confront me.
However, you see that if you want a debate, both the opponents have to be honest with each other.
I already happened to answer about Paul, more precisely in a reply I made to Lady Byakugan. If you really, as you claim, went back reading the previous replies, you would have found it. You lied, and guess, lying is dishonest in a debate.

I gave you two options:
1) to find that reply and quote that, and you didn't.
2) to leave that reply be and back your claims up with some logical/historical/whatever evidence, and you didn't as well.

You said Paul was a deceiver. Should I take this for granted? What about no? Explain in detail why you call him a deceiver.
You said Paul was a murderer. I can answer on this: he wasn't. Jean Grey insists that we all should learn the definition of murder, and of course you don't know what the word means. Plus, when did he kill someone in person?
Paul was rich, and was an antichristian. A pretty staunch antichristian, and the Bible says he approved the lapidation of Steven, the first martyr. His name was Saul. But, still according to the Bible, he had a Revelation, converted, and started to preach the Gospel. He got killed for that, after a life in the misery for his faith.
Answer my question: why such a rich man should abandon everything, get poor and absconding, and eventually die just because he wanted to deceive somebody?

But you won huh, you're indeed a brilliant debater if you can "win" in a thread of a forum. Congrats, I guess Frank Turek should learn a lot from you :sdo:

P.S. if you don't answer everything in 3 minutes I will start to proclaim my victory as well!
No it's not true, I'm going to sleep. So if you want a reply you will have to wait till tomorrow. Try not to win too much until then

 

[Naruske Izuchiah]

Hello,

For starters I like your curiosity. I'm the same way, but probably not as intensely as you. Definitely not as well verse in other religions like you are either, though, I did live in Afghanistan for like 15 months and while there was really curious about Islam--there's a story to that but it's another topic all together. I digress. I live in the USA, a natural born citizen; born again Christian. Wasn't always so. Was once a devoted Atheist.

Forgive me if I take the long route with this as opposed to being direct and succinct. Also, while I was never officially diagnosed I believe I have A.D.H.D. I'm always hyper and my attention is really, really short--behold! A squirrel!!! Ok, I'm kidding. I'm currently at my local library. Can't see any squirrels from my desk. Forgive me kind sir. Wait, was that really relevant to your thread? Probably not...my bad!

Back on task. Thread. Questions. Answers!

Here it goes, seriously now.

I often wonder if there's a greater Truth out there. A Truth that our 5 sense can't detect; it's outside of them. And if our 5 senses can't detect it then how can we know that it even exist, or how can we believe it if anyone, for whatever the reason, can pointed towards it? How does that Truth make itself known to us?

I can't speak for others, but for me the answer came through the lens of what felt wrong about everything. The world. Including myself. Something, intuitively, felt that the darker aspects of human nature (i.e evil) and the world shouldn't have to be the way it is. Don't misunderstand me. It's not a form of self-denial, I clearly see human nature, both good and bad. Growing up in a low income urban location. I accepted it for what it is. Yet, something in my heart told me that all of it is somehow...off. I didn't know then how to voice it.

For a long time I didn't bother looking for any religion. Though raised a Catholic because of my Latin American roots, I had already forsaken all aspects of God, and thus Christianity, placing them into the same category as tooth fairies and unicorns, by the time I was in 4th grade. Yes, 4th grade. There were too many hypocrites and evil in the world, I would reason, for a good God to exist. I mean, why would he allow evil to happen if he's all good and all powerful, right? I wouldn't even bother getting angry or having some personal heated debate with others--like with the Jehovah Witnesses for example (I promise I'm not flaming. They are super nice people, at least all the ones I have met before) In truth, I was jaded with the world, and myself.

But then came some cute college young woman, unfortunately already married, and an Evangelist. She integrated herself with my friends and I usual hangout spots between our college classes, which was mostly the dining tables at school. As you can imagine I put off an aloof stand-offish stance, claiming my god: Science and the scientific method; where's the proof of your God? While she made a connection about God with literally everything, even the Science. Long story short, she planted a seed of thought to me in the form of a question. It went like this: What would happen to me if I lived my life not believing in God, died, and at death, learn that there's no God? Nothing. My life was as meaningful as I myself made it, and others remembered it. But what if I lived my life never believing God ever existed, died, and at death, turns out I was wrong, He does exist. What meaning would my life be then according to His standards, and not mine?

The scare tactic of an eternal place of pure torture, damnation, and fire, i.e Hell, never scared me when I was an Atheist because due to lack of scientific proof it doesn't exist, right? I don't preach Hell like that either, though, it is a real place. What shook me to my foundation posed in her last question was the strength of my own conviction. Or in my case, deep down, the lack thereof it. Shortly after meeting her, through unplanned circumstances, I joined the U.S Army, became a combat medic, and deployed to Iraq for 7 months, and Afghanistan for 15 months. Both, as I'm sure you're aware, are Islamic dominant countries. There's more to this story but for the sake of time and space I won't dwell into it. Feel free to ask me for the rest of it if you want. Suffice to say...

What makes Christianity different from all other religions is that it claims that there's nothing you can do/think/feel to have God love you any more or any less than He already does. God IS love. God sent His only begotten son as payment for the price of not living up to His standards of holiness, in order to save all the world, EVEN WHILE His own people rejected Him and His son, Jesus of Nazareth, who's also known as Jesus Christ. In Christianity, you are saved by Grace--grace meaning unmerited favor--through your faith in God's son, Jesus Christ. In Christianity, GOD is the one reaching out to humanity through the example and life of Jesus Christ, the prophets of the Old Testament, and His followers, whom brought a ministry of mercy, not sacrifice; of relationship (and obedience through it), not commandments, rules, laws, or regulations ,one must live by.

WHAT IF THE TRUTH IS reaching out to us (not the other way around like with other religions), and all we have to do is accept it? Accept the Son of Truth? It's impossible without Faith. And biblical Faith is the assurance of the things we hope for, the conviction of the things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). And it's not a blind Faith either. Faith first begins by hearing and learning, then believing, then acting, and finally seeing and experiencing the wonders of God.

I have seen myself after praying for a woman at work, in the name of Jesus Christ, and merely touching her back with my finger tips, of her reporting something like a heated fire spreading through her back healing her severe back pain she had for months whom doctors and medicines couldn't treat. This is America for crying out loud! Afterwards she really thought I was some sort of saint--I'm not, just a regular guy. A follower of Christ--and almost in awe-fear and desperation she volunteered telling me her life story and if I can pray for her adult son who's going through his own issues in life drugs and gangs. Meanwhile reinvigorating her own faith. I have heard His whispers telling me of things that where about to happen to me, and it happened!!!--not the way I expected, and yet it happened, as the voice of God told me. I have seen, and heard, sometimes, random images and stuff about about strangers which to their astonishment--and mines too--they were true when I asked for verification. Needless to say it was a very uncomfortable and unusual conversation with them, at first. lol. I have heard stories from my own cousins of people being raised from the dead. Others, of deaf children hearing again. And still others, of people who couldn't walk, walk again. And so much more! Nevertheless, all the glory belongs to ONE GOD, and His right hand Jesus Christ who's name is above all names. Who's miracles still astonish me today.

I'm not sure if I truly chose Christianity on my own. What I do know is that God chose me. He called me out by my name. It is literally, for me, the ONLY time I heard a physical voice--the rest where like thoughts popping into my mind, like ideas--a barely audible whisper of a man who's voice was strong, scary, yet, familiar, peaceful and gentle. All at once.

The Bible mentions of how we as individuals can't draw ourselves closer to God unless He first draws Himself to us. Then, as we draw closer to God, He draws closer to us. Sometimes, God uses other people to speak life and truth into them. I'm not sure if I'm that guy. What I am sure is that God loves you. He loves all people, but hates the turning away or missing the mark of His standards, which is holiness and perfection, both in thoughts and deeds. We Christians call that "sin." But fear not! God loves all people and hates sin. All people are redeemable through His son Jesus Christ, no matter what they have done in life. No matter what. No amount of war, violence, poverty, family, or life, can keep you from the love of God. Where there's love, there's hope. Would you accept that Love? Would you die for it?

In the end, even as a student of science I can't undeniably prove for all to see or hear of the existence of God (I studied computers, medicine, and physics at my University). I know He's real. What I can tell you, and anyone else who found the tenacity to read all of my, ahem, 'short-story' is this: Truth was always there, just outside the reaches of my own human understanding, and I have in these last 5 years accepted it. With hope, with faith; with Love. And now boldness in Him. It is this love which drives me to redemption and life transformation, through the Gospels. Honestly I don't even really know how it does it, but it does. Though it's easy to say it's the Spirit of God working our salvation and redemption to Himself. A reconciliation with God.

Once, I was a man of war and anger, and now I'm a man of peace and love. The Bible transformed me, which is the Word of God. Because the Spirit of Truth can speak to you through the Bible. As for the Quran...it doesn't bring freedom to the soul though it may seem more sound to the mind of man for so many.

Hope this helped a little. And again, forgive for writing so long. My bad!!! ^_^

 

[ComplexCity]

He reminds me of Hawker

What ever happened to the guy? The Muslim thread count seems to be almost nonexistent now

 

[Marin]

While I respect your stance on such a mission (don't see why you do), I'll be happy to say it again, people here are stuck in their ways and you're wasting your time. However, you are free to do as you like. I also find it ironic how you're saying that atheism is wrong yet won't budge with a question in regards to another's religious faith. I admire you logical stances on your belief but can't comprehend why you won't answer a question similar to what you're trying to do with atheism (a question my curious side would like to have an answer to). And I'm not trying to offended anyone's religion am just curious why people think there faith is the way

You seem to have misunderstood my reply. I didn't say atheism is wrong, I simply said that my focus in these debates is aimed at the general scope of religion vs atheism. Now why would I focus on atheism while ignoring other faiths (some of which are just as compromising to my beliefs) the answer is simple:

Before arguing what version of God is right or wrong it would be important to first figure out if there is a God at all. I find this matter to be more pressing.

Also, I'm not necessarily debating to convince others of the truthfulness of my beliefs. My business here isn't with people and their beliefs but the arguments these people bring to the table. This is why I don't really pay attention to subjective claims or non-sencial rants but solely the arguments that actually pose a threat. In dismantling them I strengthen not only my faith but the faith of those around me.

There are other reasons for my participation in these debates but I don't want to get any more into it. At the end of the day my motives aren't important. It is what I do that matters on a grander scale.

About the spreading of the Gospel you are indeed right that it is my mission. However, it is how I go about it where you are mistaken. A wise man said it best:

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessarry use words."

While arguments can serve as a great push towards faith it is how a Christian lives his life that ultimatively affects others. Atleast that's my humble opinion.

 

[Deadlift]

What ever happened to the guy? The Muslim thread count seems to be almost nonexistent now

I heard he got banned, so maybe he doesn't want to risk to get banned again. But I don't know, maybe he retired in a monastery to study Dawkins

 

[ComplexCity]

You seem to have misunderstood my reply.

You say this a lot :lol

I didn't say atheism is wrong, I simply said that my focus in these debates is aimed at the general scope of religion vs atheism. Now why would I focus on atheism while ignoring other faiths (some of which are just as compromising to my beliefs) the answer is simple

When you combat something, it's usually (not all the time) is because it is wrong. I only made an assumption though. However I feel it's black or white either atheism is good or bad for one's spirit but that's subjective

Before arguing what version of God is right or wrong it would be important to first figure out if there is a God at all. I find this matter to be more pressing

You and I both know this to be true. Like I said people are set in their ways, most people won't believe in God until Armageddon IMO

Also, I'm not necessarily debating to convince others of the truthfulness of my beliefs. My business here isn't with people and their beliefs but the arguments these people bring to the table. This is why I don't really pay attention to subjective claims or non-sencial rants but solely the arguments that actually pose a threat. In dismantling them I strengthen not only my faith but the faith of those around me

I see what you're saying but again I'm not understanding why the question can't be answered. It even says in the bible that they will be religions and Gods that are blasphemous in God's eyes. So per my previous statement it's really black or white (as blunt as I can be). I understand why you don't want to answer tho

There are other reasons for my participation in these debates but I don't want to get any more into it. At the end of the day my motives aren't important. It is what I do that matters on a grander scale

I understand

About the spreading of the Gospel you are indeed right that it is my mission. However, it is how I go about it where you are mistaken. A wise man said it best:

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessarry use words."

While arguments can serve as a great push towards faith it is how a Christian lives his life that ultimatively affects others. Atleast that's my humble opinion.

Agreed

I heard he got banned, so maybe he doesn't want to risk to get banned again. But I don't know, maybe he retired in a monastery to study Dawkins

 

[Ciao]

[video=youtube;X26sKcCfqXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X26sKcCfqXg[/video]

 

[Deadlift]

Heck if I know, I just know they do things that aren't allowed in Islam. Heck, some even claim to be in contact with God. They also believe God dwells inside the creation, when he is in fact outside of it, and that the Creator and Creation are one entity.

What Gnostics are for Christianity, Sufi are for Islam.
They both are like: "we're different from the masses, real knowledge is only for few people" ignoring that both Islam and Christianity have nothing esoteric in it.

 

[Uzumaki Menma]

It appears you're not only an incompetent debater but also technologically illiterate. Fyi forums offer a form of asynchronous communication which means that just because you have sent a message to someone that doesn't mean that someone is there to see it.

So before you go on to proclaim yourself a winner on the basis of your opponet not being present educate yourself a bit k?

You must be registered for see links

As for your "facts", I'll be delighted to see them. So by all means, share some.



While I am pretty active in topics about religion, I have little interest in inter-religion debates. The focus is on combating atheism and that's what most of my arguments are made for.

My stance on religions is simple yet delicate enough not to degrade them:

"Honor what is yours and respect what is not."

For if I insult other people's faith I am betraying my own.

You're an idiot.

You can try and sound smart, but what you just said is plain retarded.

Narutobase has a function to where you can SEE who's active in the thread. I don't know if you've heard about this or not, you seem pretty new.

But, when I posted last regarding Deadlift, HE WAS STILL ON THE THREAD.

Guess he was just ignoring me because he was too scared?

 

[Uzumaki Menma]

I said if he didn't do the things I asked I wouldn't even have replied. In fact, I'm replying just because he's making big scenes and being a ain in the ass for everyone. Also, he can't distinguish between "facts" and "insults", so yeah, according to this he stated facts.
He reminds me of Hawker



Hey Heisenberg, I love how you feel so passionate in receiving a reply from my part, but really, don't worry!
Everybody on NB who knows me, knows I'm not exactly the kind of a guy who avoids debates, so really, you shouldn't have any problem to confront me.
However, you see that if you want a debate, both the opponents have to be honest with each other.
I already happened to answer about Paul, more precisely in a reply I made to Lady Byakugan. If you really, as you claim, went back reading the previous replies, you would have found it. You lied, and guess, lying is dishonest in a debate.

I gave you two options:
1) to find that reply and quote that, and you didn't.
2) to leave that reply be and back your claims up with some logical/historical/whatever evidence, and you didn't as well.

You said Paul was a deceiver. Should I take this for granted? What about no? Explain in detail why you call him a deceiver.
You said Paul was a murderer. I can answer on this: he wasn't. Jean Grey insists that we all should learn the definition of murder, and of course you don't know what the word means. Plus, when did he kill someone in person?
Paul was rich, and was an antichristian. A pretty staunch antichristian, and the Bible says he approved the lapidation of Steven, the first martyr. His name was Saul. But, still according to the Bible, he had a Revelation, converted, and started to preach the Gospel. He got killed for that, after a life in the misery for his faith.
Answer my question: why such a rich man should abandon everything, get poor and absconding, and eventually die just because he wanted to deceive somebody?

But you won huh, you're indeed a brilliant debater if you can "win" in a thread of a forum. Congrats, I guess Frank Turek should learn a lot from you :sdo:

P.S. if you don't answer everything in 3 minutes I will start to proclaim my victory as well!
No it's not true, I'm going to sleep. So if you want a reply you will have to wait till tomorrow. Try not to win too much until then

You're an idiot.

Like TranzisstX, you both do not know of basic Narutobase functions.

I'm able to click on your forum post and literally see what you've posted recently.

NOTHING you posted (I went through 4 pages) mentioned Paul and a detailed response.

Now, about Paul

1) I never called Paul a murderer. You completely misunderstood what I was saying, which, I'm not surprised by.

But I can still prove he's a murderer c'mon man, you're making this waaay too easy!

Acts 8:1-5, "And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them."

Saul (who was Paul) consented Stephen's death.

Definition of consenting: to be pleased together with, to approve together (with others)

So, he still shares the guilt of Stephen's death.

2. Why would a man sooo rich leave his life money behind to preach?

Paul deceived the masses.

He gained followers and people who took his word as gospel (unfortunately).

In doing this, he had more power than money could buy.

I'm still up to debate. Just hope you show up this time :bdpf:

 

[Marin]

You're an idiot.

You can try and sound smart, but what you just said is plain retarded.

Narutobase has a function to where you can SEE who's active in the thread. I don't know if you've heard about this or not, you seem pretty new.

But, when I posted last regarding Deadlift, HE WAS STILL ON THE THREAD.

Guess he was just ignoring me because he was too scared?

Being online doesn't mean being actually present there in front of the screen. Without a "seen" function such as that in Facebook you don't know if the other side actually saw the message or not.

He said it himself, he was replying in breaks while doing something else. Also, he replied to you, so there goes that.

 

[ComplexCity]

You're an idiot.

You can try and sound smart, but what you just said is plain retarded.

Narutobase has a function to where you can SEE who's active in the thread. I don't know if you've heard about this or not, you seem pretty new.

But, when I posted last regarding Deadlift, HE WAS STILL ON THE THREAD.

Guess he was just ignoring me because he was too scared?

On the contrary you can be on the page while doing something else. For example I can be on this thread with Chrome minimized but be playing on Steam full screen. So I don't think you should be hurling insults there

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

I follow only one religion and that is Humanity.