Chunin Prelims Neji Vs CE Prelims Sasuke , Kiba , Choji , kangkuro , Yoroi and Lee .

[Claymantan]

FYI I don't even concede that Neji's going to Shunshin to avoid Great Fireball while running full-speed towards Sasuke when he's already starting this match off within Great Fireball's range. I'm just assuming "even if Neji did do this," to show that it wouldn't even help him.

Im just countering wat u set forth , i already said any who tries to stop neji gets killed then an there , dwindling the team already and thats why i asked repeatably to tell me exactly wat happens and who tries to intervene so i can tell u who dies first , ur just skipping over the fact that people from the team are gonna die.

If Neji is dealing with them first, then he didn't blitz, and strategy goes off. The scenario was "If Neji decides to beeline for Sasuke" in order to try and stop the strategy.

As if kangkuro would have the time or reaction to intercept neji's shunshin dash with a gas bomb after neji avoids sasukes fireball , its like u dont even kno that shunshin is extremely fast movement , even the much slower noob like sasuke was capable of pulling feats off like these at a time when he could hardly control his chakra.

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when did kangkuro get byakugan/sharingan or reaction feats portraying this intercepting and reactive capability? also ignoring that the byakugan senses all attacks along with sasuke bein close enough to neji to also become victim to gas bombs since avoiding katon puts them at mid/close range , not that kangjuro could pull the feat anyway.

Intercept? He just throws the poison gas bomb wherever Neji decides to go. Neji's not going to land and then instantly continue moving full speed (made up feat, again, no one ever does this whole described feat). And no, Neji isn't so close to Sasuke after Neji performs this spec-Shunshin-feat that Sasuke's in the poison gas bomb's range (unless Neji somehow Shunshin'd through the fireball). Even if he was, scenario was introduced as OoC.

If Neji uses shunshin to dodge sasukes katon close range mid/close range then how the **** would he notice that neji reacted via shunshin in time to cancel the fire ball then prep his own shunshin? even so neji easily outpaces him with the head start of his own shunshin along with his superior speed , agility , chakra usage and C Awareness.

Whoever intervenes gets killed just tell me who and how they intervene so i can debunk it already , wat would be the resulting scenario after that? U cant just mention the others and not mention wtf they would do to stop neji , obviously they would do something but who does wat and how??????

As you showed earlier, an

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prepped

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in the midst

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by Haku's needles and got

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.

If Neji's Shunshin'd away from Great Fireball, that just gives Sasuke more time to react and do the same thing.

I'm not buying this scenario in which Neji is running full speed towards Sasuke, performs a Shunshin in some completely different direction in the middle of running full speed towards him, and then immediately continues full speed towards Sasuke from whatever distance away Neji has Shunshin'd, without Sasuke being able to react. Again, 2T Sasuke has reacted to greater speeds than Prelims and CE Neji ever demonstrated, and Sasuke did so at much shorter distances. Furthermore, Haku is ranked higher than Neji in speed in the First Databook as well. And we know that that specific ranking isn't based on body speed, so it's just completely unfounded to give Neji the kind of movement speed your argument is dependent on him having (movement speed that 2T Sasuke wouldn't be able to perceive and react to, or even movement speed that the others can't perceive and react to).

Also wat would the others do after they try to catch up? overwhlem neji with numbers like wat happend when neji swam trough a river of naruto clones untouched?. How tf would it reset the match?????? tf is happeing in that scenario of urs that causes the match to reset?

If we assume that Neji can perform this feat, then after performing the Shunshin Neji is in a location probably 30 m away from Sasuke (Great Fireball is around that distance wide), and others are attacking him. It's not "resetting" in the most literal sense, but it brings us essentially back to where I said the match would be in my outlined strategy, with Neji definitely being attacked by at least Lee and Kiba. Except now he's at a disadvantage, since his attention wouldn't be focused on them, being focused on Sasuke and all.

Neji has Byakugan, but it doesn't prevent

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. This has been shown time and again in the manga.

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, and these clones were moving to attack well within the range of Neji's Byakugan. I'm not going to accept this God-Neji that is focused on perceiving and dodging Sasuke's Great Fireball instantly reacting to being attacked from behind by people who are chasing him without having Kaiten.

He outright gets hit by either Lee or Kiba if he somehow manages to pull of this amazing Shunshin in a new direction at his full-speed movement which isn't even faster than anything weighted Lee has demonstrated or that Kiba can be assumed to have based on Databook.

If Lee and Kiba are dealt with, then Neji didn't blitz Sasuke at the start, and strategy outlined at the beginning happened, and Neji is dead (I opened up this discussion by saying "Assuming OoC").

Even IC, I don't see Neji attempting a blitz when there's at least two people who are competent enough to cause him damage if he lets his guard down.

Neji follows and outpaces him with superior speed , agility , chakra control and the head start so its the same results as sasuke wont get far.

No manga facts or Databook entries to back up this claim.

I never said it cant get bigger , i said bring a scan showing how big or where is size is portrayed , its still avoided no diff and resluts in sasukes death.

Addressed above.

And?? is kiba gonna blitz in and save sasuke or is kiba gonna outperform neji? wat does this now entail???

It shows that you need to prove that Neji can actually move so fast that no-one can react. As for what happens, that's addressed above.

U have yet to even address wat actions the team would take after neji avoids the katon and goes far sasuke as thats the scenario where we're at. I debunked ur statement that sasuke toast him with katon and now u improvise in a way that doesn't save sasukes life.

Your argument is based on Neji having speed feats that he's never displayed. No one in the manga has never used Shunshin in the way you're describing it, and I'm not going to just give that kind of feat to any Neji short of an SRA Neji without proof. If Neji tries to blitz Sasuke, Neji doesn't even avoid the Katon, since him performing a Shunshin while moving at full speed is a made-up feat. Even if he did perform the Shunshin, he gets ambushed the same way the two Naruto clones ambushed him, except now he's dealing with two people significantly superior to CE Bunshins in Taijutsu, and Neji's going to get hit. And if he does perform the Shunshin, he's still out of range to try continue a blitz.

 

[The Arizen]

FYI I don't even concede that Neji's going to Shunshin to avoid Great Fireball while running full-speed towards Sasuke when he's already starting this match off within Great Fireball's range. I'm just assuming "even if Neji did do this," to show that it wouldn't even help him.

Literally ntn is stopping him from doing this as all he needs to do is expel chakra into his legs while running unless ur gonna tell me that it cant be done while running?? so basically chakra cant be expeled when running then??

If Neji is dealing with them first, then he didn't blitz, and strategy goes off. The scenario was "If Neji decides to beeline for Sasuke" in order to try and stop the strategy.

Which is why i asked u how the team would start off.

Intercept? He just throws the poison gas bomb wherever Neji decides to go. Neji's not going to land and then instantly continue moving full speed (made up feat, again, no one ever does this whole described feat). And no, Neji isn't so close to Sasuke after Neji performs this spec-Shunshin-feat that Sasuke's in the poison gas bomb's range (unless Neji somehow Shunshin'd through the fireball). Even if he was, scenario was introduced as OoC.

He cant anticipate where neji would go while he's moving extremely fast with shunshin , the gas bomb attack was used against a non moving shino and only one bomb in canon , he has no reaction feats to indicate him bein able to pull it off , drop this argument about kangkuro doing this immediately.

If Neji's Shunshin'd away from Great Fireball, that just gives Sasuke more time to react and do the same thing.

The amount of chakra required depends on the overall distance and elevation between the user and the intended destination , he avoids the fire ball then weaves his way to sasuke at great pace. Sasuke did somthing similar only he jumped upwards beforehand , neji wont do this and since he's way faster and agile he easily out-paces sasuke.

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I'm not buying this scenario in which Neji is running full speed towards Sasuke, performs a Shunshin in some completely different direction in the middle of running full speed towards him, and then immediately continues full speed towards Sasuke from whatever distance away Neji has Shunshin'd, without Sasuke being able to react. Again, 2T Sasuke has reacted to greater speeds than Prelims and CE Neji ever demonstrated, and Sasuke did so at much shorter distances. Furthermore, Haku is ranked higher than Neji in speed in the First Databook as well. And we know that that specific ranking isn't based on body speed, so it's just completely unfounded to give Neji the kind of movement speed your argument is dependent on him having (movement speed that 2T Sasuke
wouldn't be able to perceive and react to, or even movement speed that the others can't perceive and react to).

I already covered this , ntn is stopping him from doing this as we already know neji>>>>>>sasuke in body speed.

If we assume that Neji can perform this feat, then after performing the Shunshin Neji is in a location probably 30 m away from Sasuke (Great Fireball is around that distance wide), and others are attacking him. It's not "resetting" in the most literal sense, but it brings us essentially back to where I said the match would be in my outlined strategy, with Neji definitely being attacked by at least Lee and Kiba. Except now he's at a disadvantage, since his attention wouldn't be focused on them, being focused on Sasuke and all.

Neji's vision would always be on all of them while still seein sasuke via byakugan

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He was seeing every single kunai and spider coming in continuous waves from all angles accurately , and yet he somehow cant keep watch on 6 humans who are all too slow to catch him while targeting 1 , ohh plzzzzz , u kno ntn about the byakugan.

This also means that ur outlined strategy dies here since it ignores a basic ability of the byakugan , bein capable of keepin his attention on all of them simultaneously, not just one along with bein able to sense all the attacks , dealing with one doesn't mean neji loses sight on the others.

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This just proves that ur reachin hard now and how many times i'v proven u wrong , kiba and lee both die first when they attack him .

Neji has Byakugan, but it doesn't prevent

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. This has been shown time and again in the manga.

Yea , as if neji would switch off his 360 degree vision while fighting 6 opponents , neji focused on a random clone way in the back while swimming through a army attacking him from all angles so get ur Bs convenient plot set pieces outa here.

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, and these clones were moving to attack well within the range of Neji's Byakugan. I'm not going to accept this God-Neji that is focused on perceiving and dodging Sasuke's Great Fireball instantly reacting to being attacked from behind by people who are chasing him without having Kaiten.

Already addressed, another instance in which 360 degree vision was conveniently switched off and not in effect , its like u dont even kno wat the byakugan does or how it works.


Neji was focused on perceiving a random clone way off in the back while simultaneously dodging attacks from every single possible angle since he was literally swimming through a army of simultaneous attacks using byakugan.

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Anyone who tries to blind side the byakugan Without plot convenience is seen the punished for the attempt on the spot but its obvious u dont even kno about the byakugan and think all its visionary capabilities are active everytime the eye is active right?? well wrong , two people just died because of ur ignorance.



Yea , get ur facts right , neji Can see 360 degrees , but it doesn't mean its always in effect obviously , this was shown time and time again , its the reason neji had to literally activate and use his 360 degree vision here.

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If Neji was using his 360 degree vision when naruto ambushed him from behind , then somthing like this would've happend.

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But i guess all those instances like naruto ambushing when his guards down can be correlated to them going through the blindspot right , or speed??? shitty logic here clay , just think , neji can focus on multiple things simultaneously accurately once its in range.

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While neji has his 360 vision active , all their attacks get danced around with complete ease and no one has intel on the limits to neji's vision and these are all instances where his 360 vision is utilized.

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He outright gets hit by either Lee or Kiba if he somehow manages to pull of this amazing Shunshin in a new direction at his full-speed movement which isn't even faster than anything weighted Lee has demonstrated or that Kiba can be assumed to have based on Databook.

Lee and kiba are much too slow to hit him as neji can easily react to their speeds with his byakugan, neji has faster body speed than sasuke and weighted lee , this is a fact that cant be argued, he stomps them both the same way lee stomped naruto and sauke as he's confirmed much stronger than both.

If Lee and Kiba are dealt with, then Neji didn't blitz Sasuke at the start, and strategy outlined at the beginning happened, and Neji is dead (I opened up this discussion by saying "Assuming OoC").

Then lee and kiba are dealt with , simple.

Even IC, I don't see Neji attempting a blitz when there's at least two people who are competent enough to cause him damage if he lets his guard down.

I could care less wat u see , neji wont let his guard down with this many opponents.

No manga facts or Databook entries to back up this claim.

Yea only common sense , by attributing the fact that weighted lee is faster than Za Sasuke we can deduce that lee would do much better against haku in cqc , we can also add this feat to neji since intense body speed is needed to even contend with lee even if u have blessed eyes , the fact that neji>>>>>sasuke in Cc , Speed and agility supports my points as he's faster so he catches up.

It shows that you need to prove that Neji can actually move so fast that no-one can react. As for what happens, that's addressed above.

The mere fact that Za Sasuke can move that fast and neji's body speed>>>his so...

Also neji can counter react faster than any here and thats how he kills them since ur of the impression that they can easily blindside the byakugan.

Your argument is based on Neji having speed feats that he's never displayed. No one in the manga has never used Shunshin in the way you're describing it, and I'm not going to just give that kind of feat to any Neji short of an SRA Neji without proof. If Neji tries to blitz Sasuke, Neji doesn't even avoid the Katon, since him performing a Shunshin while moving at full speed is a made-up feat. Even if he did perform the Shunshin, he gets ambushed the same way the two Naruto clones ambushed him, except now he's dealing with two people significantly superior to CE Bunshins in Taijutsu, and Neji's going to get hit. And if he does perform the Shunshin, he's still out of range to try continue a blitz.

So ur literally saying shunshin cant be used in such a way based on ntn , wats stoppin him then?????? he cant expel chakra while running why???

By using chakra to temporarily vitalise the body , one can move at extreme speeds. The amount of chakra required depends on the overall distance and elevation between the user and the intended destination.

Ntn here suggests it cant be used how im using it and ntn suggests that he would fail to avoid katon when the byakugan gives him the heads up along with his info on sasukes nature from the forest.



Again with the Bs naruto clone point? Byakugans's 360 vision wasn't in play since neji was confident he won and dropped his guard meaning he was looking solely at naruto atp , the scan before shows neji immediately singling out the same clone while swimming trough another river of clones in front of him , no doubt the real naruto and his clone who tried to ambush neji later were also avoided with ease , this alone puts ur ambush Bs to bed unless ur telling me neji is gonna conveniently switch off 360 vision for it to happen in this scenario where he is outnumbered? , do tell the scenario in which they accomplish this or ur points lack any kind of substance behind them watsoever.

I find it really funny how u said neji would get ambushed the same way naruto's clones ambushed him , meaning that the Team would somehow trick neji into thinking he's won the match , its obvious that this makes zero sense and u have lost the debate by saying they would ambush neji in that way since it would fail due to 360 degree vision coming into play when they attempt to do this so yea , Good Game?

Any who tries to blindside neji gets seen from behind and killed so for the last time, who dies first???

 

[unknownvillain1254]

not only taijutsu was inferior but clones were less durable poofed with one strike alongside the fact naruto was losing good amount of chakra with his clones poofing away

When the Clones pop Naruto gets part of that chaka back

 

[BLAZE]

When the Clones pop Naruto gets part of that chaka back

yeah when they poof
not when they are destroyed by others or naruto would still have buttload of chakra left after his Kurama sized clones were destroyed in VOTE2

 

[Claymantan]

Literally ntn is stopping him from doing this as all he needs to do is expel chakra into his legs while running unless ur gonna tell me that it cant be done while running?? so basically chakra cant be expeled when running then??

If it can be done while running, I'm not going to just assume Neji is Neji no Shunshin and is going to do this while running full speed at a target to change direction instantly and then continue moving full speed as soon as he completes the Shunshin towards Sasuke. The feat you're describing isn't some easy "just do it" thing. It remains that it's never been shown by anyone in the manga.

Which is why i asked u how the team would start off.

Team starts off with previously outlined strategy, if Neji doesn't try to blitz Sasuke, he gets overwhelmed by the combination of the four people attacking him in CQC and Sasuke and Kankuro using Katon/poison (OoC). I said this is the strategy they would use to win, so obviously this is how it starts off. I brought up Neji blitzing as the possibly counter to the strategy, but argued that either the blitz doesn't work, or that Neji isn't likely to even try to blitz (he lets his opponents come to him; even in the case of Naruto's clones, he waited for them to attack before countering).

He cant anticiapate where neji would go while he's moving extremely fast with shunshin , the gas bomb attack was used against a non moving shino and only one bomb in canon , he has no reaction feats to indicate him bein able to pull it off , drop this argument about kangkuro doing this now.

Shunshin is one-directional. Yeah, he can. People react to Shunshins all the time, and I'm not saying Kankuro tries to chase him or something. He just sees where Neji goes, and launches a poison gas bomb. It's not an impressive reaction feat to be able to see where someone Shunshins and to then launch something at where they Shunshin'd. Kankuro doesn't throw the gas bomb, he activates it with literally a twitch of his finger. You randomly grant Neji amazing feats but then deny that other characters can do simple feats. xD

Only one poison gas bomb is canon, but I never said he launches it more than once. Either first strategy happens and he launches it at Neji to kill him while Neji's stomping the four (OoC), or Neji tries to blitz, somehow pulls off this Shunshin feat that requires him to maintain high speed while dodging Katon, and then gets gassed.

The amount of chakra required depends on the overall distance and elevation between the user and the intended destination , he avoids the fire ball then weaves his way to sasuke at great pace. Sasuke did somthing similar only he jumped upwards beforehand , neji wont do this and since he's way faster and agile he easily out-paces sasuke.

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I don't see how you're comparing what Sasuke did to what Neji could; they're entirely separate. Sasuke took a while to do this, and was throwing shuriken and such to buy himself time to get behind Haku.

I already covered this , ntn is stopping him from doing this as we already know neji>>>>>>sasuke in body speed.

We're talking movement speed. Freaking Hinata's body speed is probably > Prelims Sasuke, but no way in hell is anybody arguing that she's got movement speed that puts Sasuke to shame. CE Neji plainly has no movement speed feats that put his speed at such a level that literally everyone in this match can't see him moving.

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, and Neji isn't anywhere near Gated Lee's movement speed.

Databook puts him below Kiba, again, and

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. This Neji, at this distance, is blitzing no-one except for like, Choji and Yaroi. All evidence points against it.

Neji's attention would always be on them via byakugan and this just proves that ur reachin hard now , kiba and lee both die first when they attack him then.

And Neji gets hit by poison gas. xD

Yea , as if neji would switch off his 360 degree vision while fighting 6 opponents , neji focused on a random clone way in the back while swimming through a army attacking him from all angles so get ur Bs convenient plot set pieces outa here.

"Way in the back" was less than 30 m.

I'm aware of the "360 degree vision turns off" explanation, but it's a reader-explanation and not something that was confirmed in any way in-manga. In fact, IIRC,

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. Neji's 360 degree vision is always on, but what he's paying attention to and actually perceives is different based on the situation. This is a consistent issue shown throughout the manga, so you can't just say "plot" and try to debunk it.

Neji isn't going to be reacting to a serious move like Sasuke's Great Fireball while simultaneously concentrating chakra in his feat and launching a Shunshin to dodge it all while simultaneously keeping aware of what Weighted Lee and Kiba, who are by no means slow, are planning.

Already addressed, another instance in which 360 degree vision was conveniently switched off and not in effect , is this really ur best?

"Conveniently" when this is how it's always shown to work in basically every encounter he has? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can say it's not canon. xD

Neji was focused on perceiving a random clone way off in the back while simultaneously dodging attacks from every single possible angle since he was literally swimming through a army of simultaneous attacks using byakugan.

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Again, random clone was less than 30 m away. Two random clones were like a foot away. Neji was already aware of and was focusing on dodging the individual clones. He's not going to be focused on what Kiba and Lee are doing while simultaneously focusing on Sasuke's chakra build up, calculating the chakra necessary to dodge Great Fireball with a Shunshin, if he can do that, and then performing the Shunshin.

Anyone who tries to blind side the byakugan Without plot convenience is seen the punished for the attempt on the spot but its obvious u dont even kno about the byakugan and think all its visionary capabilities are active everytime the eye is active right?? well wrong , two people just died because of ur ignorance.

Yea , get ur facts right , neji Can see 360 degrees , but it doesn't mean its always in effect obviously , this was shown time and time again but i guess all those instances can be correlated to people going through the blindspot right??? shitty logic here clay.

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I guess naruto's clones traveled through neji's blindspot and neji was using 360 degree vision to find jirobo right???

Also putting this quote here since it follows in the same line of argument:

Again with the Bs naruto clone point? Byakugans's 360 vision wasn't in play since neji was confident the win , the scan before shows neji immediately singling out a random clone while swimming trough another river of clones in front of him this alone puts ur ambush Bs to bed unless ur telling me neji is gonna conveniently switch off 360 vision for it to happen??

Don't tell me that I don't know how Byakugan works when what you're saying about the Byakugan is an explanation people drew based on how it appeared to work in the manga, and not how it was canonically stated to work at any point in the manga. The "360 degree vision turns off" explanation is just the fan-theory for why he got surprised by Jirobo and Naruto. It's not "facts."

"Plot convenience" is only a valid argument when it's a one-off issue. Neji's Byakugan always operated like this. You're gonna tell me Neji didn't think to have 360 degree vision active when Jirobo disappeared? Why would he have turned off 360 degree vision in the midst of attacking Naruto? He ran through those clones without 360 degree vision, but

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?

Lee and kiba are much too slow to hit him as neji can easily react to their speeds with his byakugan, neji has faster body speed than sasuke and weighted lee , this is a fact that cant be argued, he stomps them both the same way lee stomped naruto and sauke as he's confirmed much stronger than both.

Then lee and kiba are dealt with , simple.

If he reacts to Kiba and Lee, then he's stationary, and gets gassed by the poison gas bomb that Kankuro still won't have spent, since this scenario involves Neji blitzing immediately. That said, their striking speed is pretty high, and Neji has to turn around, so it's not just a given that he's going to be reacting to something behind him faster than it's going to hit him as soon as he gets out of the Shunshin. Again, these aren't CE Bunshins.

I could care less wat u see , neji wont let his guard down with this many opponents.

This is possible, but doesn't really change the outcome, as I stated above and will state below.

Yea only common sense , by attributing the fact that weighted lee is faster than Za Sasuke we can deduce that lee would do much better against haku in cqc , we can also add this feat to neji since intense body speed is needed to even contend with lee even if u have blessed eyes , the fact that neji>>>>>sasuke in Cc , Speed and agility supports my points as he's faster so he catches up

Body speed =/= Movement speed. Weighted Lee has greater movement speed feats than everyone else in the K12, except for CM Sasuke. The process you're describing is based on movement speed. CE Neji has no movement speed feats that put him above Sasuke or Weighted Lee. There is zero evidence that Neji is faster in movement speed than Sasuke.

That Neji needs extreme body speed to compete with Lee in Taijutsu is irrelevant. He doesn't need significant movement speed to compete with Lee, since his entire fighting style is based on counters and he mainly fights by waiting for his opponent to come into his range. So you can't use him competing with Lee in Taijutsu as an argument to say that he's faster than Sasuke.

The mere fact that Za Sasuke can move that fast and neji's body speed>>>his so...

Like I said, ZA Sasuke didn't use Shunshin anything like the way you're saying Neji would use it. And again, since you're saying Neji uses Shunshin in conjunction with movement speed, his movement speed is still relevant, and is not demonstrably greater than Sasuke's.

Also neji can counter react faster than any here and thats how he kills them since ur of the impression that they can easily blindside the byakugan.

I wouldn't call it "easily" since you put Neji up against six people. I agree that he has the fastest counter-reactions, but it's irrelevant when he's being simultaneously attacked and has no solid counter.

So ur literally saying shunshin cant be used in such a way based on ntn , wats stoppin him then?????? he cant expel chakra while running why???

By using chakra to temporarily vitalise the body , one can move at extreme speeds. The amount of chakra required depends on the overall distance and elevation between the user and the intended destination.

Ntn here suggests it cant be used how im using it and ntn suggests that he would fail to avoid katon when the byakugan gives him the
heads up along with his info on sasukes nature from the forest.

Even if he reacts and gathers enough chakra to Shunshin away from Great Fireball when he's starting the match off in or very near Great Fireball's range to begin with, he's not going to recover from the Shunshin instantly and continue his blitz, because no one has ever done this, and Neji does not have movement speed feats to say that he would be doing the things you say he'd be doing.

Any who tries to blindside neji gets seen from behind and killed so for the last time, who dies first???

Lee, Kiba, Choji, and Yaroi are cannon fodder; I don't care who among them dies first. But they die first, and Neji gets gassed when he's stomping them.

If he defies all logic and tries to blitz Sasuke immediately, then he gets scorched by Katon.

If he becomes Neji no Shunshin and dodges the Katon by reacting to something happening to him while he's moving at full speed and changing direction immediately, then Weighted Lee and Kiba catch up to him with their superior movement speed by feats and Databook. Either they hit him, because it's probable that after dodging Sasuke's Katon with a Shunshin, Neji won't be as focused on what's appening behind him, or Neji kills them, and that's the point where Neji gets gassed (since this scenario means that Kankuro never used his one canonical poison gas bomb, because Neji immediately tries to blitz). I see no possible way out for Neji in this last scenario.

 

[The Arizen]

If it can be done while running, I'm not going to just assume Neji is Neji no Shunshin and is going to do this while running full speed at a target to change direction instantly and then continue moving full speed as soon as he completes the Shunshin towards Sasuke. The feat you're describing isn't some easy "just do it" thing. It remains that it's never been shown by anyone in the manga.
.

Explain how it cant be done or drop it.

Team starts off with previously outlined strategy, if Neji doesn't try to blitz Sasuke, he gets overwhelmed by the combination of the four people attacking him in CQC and Sasuke and Kankuro using Katon/poison (OoC). I said this is the strategy they would use to win, so obviously this is how it starts off. I brought up Neji blitzing as the possibly counter to the strategy, but argued that either the blitz doesn't work, or that Neji isn't likely to even try to blitz (he lets his opponents come to him; even in the case of Naruto's clones, he waited for them to attack before countering).

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4 inferior people attacking him in cqc is ntn he cant handle especially since he is way superior, i wont touch OoC.

Shunshin is one-directional. Yeah, he can. People react to Shunshins all the time, and I'm not saying Kankuro tries to chase him or something. He just sees where Neji goes, and launches a poison gas bomb. It's not an impressive reaction feat to be able to see where someone Shunshins and to then launch something at where they Shunshin'd. Kankuro doesn't throw the gas bomb, he activates it with literally a twitch of his finger. You randomly grant Neji amazing feats but then deny that other characters can do simple feats. xD
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The poison gas bomb would be sensed and seen , no way would the bomb explode near neji when he's on the move , plz drop this kanguro Bs plz its sad as fckkk.

Only one poison gas bomb is canon, but I never said he launches it more than once. Either first strategy happens and he launches it at Neji to kill him while Neji's stomping the four (OoC), or Neji tries to blitz, somehow pulls off this Shunshin feat that requires him to maintain high speed while dodging Katon, and then gets gassed.
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Neji's fighting style is heavily based on counters as u said , he deals with 4 while constantly having his vision on kangkuro , sensing/seein his attack then while the others dont , neji simply avoids the blast the team take the poison , plz drop this shitt.

I don't see how you're comparing what Sasuke did to what Neji could; they're entirely separate. Sasuke took a while to do this, and was throwing shuriken and such to buy himself time to get behind Haku.
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Sasuke was a complete noob at chakra control barely able to climb a tree and the rest is irrelevant since its a fact that neji's faster than that sasuke.

We're talking movement speed. Freaking Hinata's body speed is probably > Prelims Sasuke, but no way in hell is anybody arguing that she's got movement speed that puts Sasuke to shame. CE Neji plainly has no movement speed feats that put his speed at such a level that literally everyone in this match can't see him moving.

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, and Neji isn't anywhere near Gated Lee's movement speed.
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I never said they cant see him moving!!! , i said they cant stop him.

Databook puts him below Kiba, again, and

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. This Neji, at this distance, is blitzing no-one except for like, Choji and Yaroi. All evidence points against it.
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Good , irrelevant.

And Neji gets hit by poison gas. xD
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In ur dreams, the same poison gas that would be seen and sensed comin by neji and neji only?? nope , are they grabbing neji or somthing? lol

I'm aware of the "360 degree vision turns off" explanation, but it's a reader-explanation and not something that was confirmed in any way in-manga. In fact, IIRC,

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. Neji's 360 degree vision is always on, but what he's paying attention to and actually perceives is different based on the situation. This is a consistent issue shown throughout the manga, so you can't just say "plot" and try .to debunk it.
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Translations like that and mostly anything other than viz cant be used to deduce wats exactly said as there are always multiple slight errors and different words that can change everything and that alone ends ur Bs since manga clearly agrees with my point about the byakugan.

Neji isn't going to be reacting to a serious move like Sasuke's Great Fireball while simultaneously concentrating chakra in his feat and launching a Shunshin to dodge it all while simultaneously keeping aware of what Weighted Lee and Kiba, who are by no means slow, are planning.
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And why the fck cant he???

"Conveniently" when this is how it's always shown to work in basically every encounter he has? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can say it's not canon. xD

And its shown that the 360 degree vision has to activated so ill just take ur concession.

Again, random clone was less than 30 m away. Two random clones were like a foot away. Neji was already aware of and was focusing on dodging the individual clones. He's not going to be focused on what Kiba and Lee are doing while simultaneously focusing on Sasuke's chakra build up, calculating the chakra necessary to dodge Great Fireball with a Shunshin, if he can do that, and then performing the Shunshin.
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Kmt , neji would also be aware of kiba and lee and the rest doesn't even make sense.

Don't tell me that I don't know how Byakugan works when what you're saying about the Byakugan is an explanation people drew based on how it appeared to work in the manga, and not how it was canonically stated to work at any point in the manga. The "360 degree vision turns off" explanation is just the fan-theory for why he got surprised by Jirobo and Naruto. It's not "facts."
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Which is why neji had to literally turn it on and expand it here right?

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If it was just a fan thoery and 360 degree is always active then wtf is happening here genius?

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Why the fck did neji have to literally choose to use it hmmm??

"Plot convenience" is only a valid argument when it's a one-off issue. Neji's Byakugan always operated like this. You're gonna tell me Neji didn't think to have 360 degree vision active when Jirobo disappeared? Why would he have turned off 360 degree vision in the midst of attacking Naruto? He ran through those clones without 360 degree vision, but

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?
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These stupid questions could be asked of allot of events in the manga , why did this character not do this/that at this time , its just plot but i can see that ur not willing to accept the obvious.

Neji ran through the clones with his 360 degree vision and attack sensing , when he thought he got the real naruto and the clones started poofing , neji was obviously was not using his 360 degree vision.

If he reacts to Kiba and Lee, then he's stationary, and gets gassed by the poison gas bomb that Kankuro still won't have spent, since this scenario involves Neji blitzing immediately. That said, their striking speed is pretty high, and Neji has to turn around, so it's not just a given that he's going to be reacting to something behind him faster than it's going to hit him as soon as he gets out of the Shunshin. Again, these aren't CE Bunshins..

[/QUOTE]


So kangkuro tries to gas his teammates Ic??? i said to drop it...

With byakugan neji can still attack and turn around almost instantly with the hyugas fast footwork. Neji easily reacts to them and kills them.

This is possible, but doesn't really change the outcome, as I stated above and will state below.
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It does because none of their attacks is catching neji with his byakugan active as iv proven above.

Body speed =/= Movement speed. Weighted Lee has greater movement speed feats than everyone else in the K12, except for CM Sasuke. The process you're describing is based on movement speed. CE Neji has no movement speed feats that put him above Sasuke or Weighted Lee. There is zero evidence that Neji is faster in movement speed than Sasuke.

Yea only common sense in regards to sasuke but watever , since portrayal is obviously irrelevant.

That Neji needs extreme body speed to compete with Lee in Taijutsu is irrelevant. He doesn't need significant movement speed to compete with Lee, since his entire fighting style is based on counters and he mainly fights by waiting for his opponent to come into his range. So you can't use him competing with Lee in Taijutsu as an argument to say that he's faster than Sasuke.

But its good enough to deduce that neji stomps the 4 who rush him with ease so irrelevant.

Like I said, ZA Sasuke didn't use Shunshin anything like the way you're saying Neji would use it. And again, since you're saying Neji uses Shunshin in conjunction with movement speed, his movement speed is still relevant, and is not demonstrably greater than Sasuke's..

Yea , sasuke used it in a more complicated way since he jumped , threw 3 shuriken , then bunched off the edge of the bridge to get behind haku instantly meaning that shunshin can be more that a simple directional dash as i told u before , chakra is used to vitalise the body making it move a extreme speeds.

I wouldn't call it "easily" since you put Neji up against six people. I agree that he has the fastest counter-reactions, but it's irrelevant when he's being simultaneously attacked and has no solid counter.
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He gets simultaneously attacked and they get simultaneously wreked as lee needs to open gates in order to beat neji's counter-reactions before kaiten , so he easily does the same to this team. If the launch random ranged attacks neji simply evades them.

Even if he reacts and gathers enough chakra to Shunshin away from Great Fireball when he's starting the match off in or very near Great Fireball's range to begin with, he's not going to recover from the Shunshin instantly and continue his blitz, because no one has ever done this, and Neji does not have movement speed feats to say that he would be doing the things you say he'd be doing.
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Recover from the shunshin??? ohh plzzz thats nonsense when sasuke maintained his shunshin for a while and was able to react with ease.

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Lee, Kiba, Choji, and Yaroi are cannon fodder; I don't care who among them dies first. But they die first, and Neji gets gassed when he's stomping them.
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If thats ur arguemnt then it results in neji seein and sensing the gas bomb while its traveling the easily escapes leaving Lee, Kiba, Choji, and Yaroi to get gassed , only way neji also gets gassed is if they physically restrain him which they cant.

If he defies all logic and tries to blitz Sasuke immediately, then he gets scorched by Katon.

If he becomes Neji no Shunshin and dodges the Katon by reacting to something happening to him while he's moving at full speed and changing direction immediately, then Weighted Lee and Kiba catch up to him with their superior movement speed by feats and Databook. Either they hit him, because it's probable that after dodging Sasuke's Katon with a Shunshin, Neji won't be as focused on what's appening behind him, or Neji kills them, and that's the point where Neji gets gassed (since this scenario means that Kankuro never used his one canonical poison gas bomb, because Neji immediately tries to blitz). I see no possible way out for Neji in this last scenario.

And there is just too much wrong with the bold , neji would always be focued on everything goin on around him. The only ones getting gassed is kangkuro's teammates since they wont see or sense the gas unlike neji..

Good game.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Talks like other member will be tea partying there.Competely ignores Neji cannot fend off Kiba,Choji and Lee at same time since he canonically got hit by much slower Hinata when sealing her points


Neji literally cannot fend and defeat multiple of them while fending Kunai,Fireball,Poison gas at same time without kaiten and his CE feats

You are acting like neji has some kind of godspeed so when he deals with each one on one others will just sit around

This is my only problem with your argument if anybody gets within fifty meters of him that's suicide on their part

Hinata never touched neji

 

[BLAZE]

This is my only problem with your argument if anybody gets within fifty meters of him that's suicide on their part

Not when there are multiple opponents and Neji's kaiten is restricted

Hinata never touched neji

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[Claymantan]

Explain how it cant be done or drop it.

Explain why Neji doesn't have a feat that isn't supported anywhere in manga? Even if it can be done, we don't know anything about difficulty or how fast it could be done, and if you need to just magically grant Neji feats, and not only that, but a specific feat that requires him to be perceiving and reacting to a move while moving at full speed, then your argument has no substance to begin with. I don't need to explain how something that doesn't exist in the manga can't be done. xD

4 inferior people attacking him in cqc is ntn he cant handle especially since he is way superior, i wont touch OoC.

He still needs to stop moving to do it.

The poison gas bomb would be sensed and seen , no way would the bomb explode near neji when he's on the move , plz drop this kanguro Bs plz its sad as fckkk.

See above, if he decides to dodge, two of the people he's fighting are faster or on par with his movement speed and will catch him. If he's fighting them, he's stationary and will get hit.

Neji's fighting style is heavily based on counters as u said , he deals with 4 while constantly having his vision on kangkuro , sensing/seein his attack then while the others dont , neji simply avoids the blast the team take the poison , plz drop this shitt.

I'm not dropping it when it's evident that you're only counter is that Neji somehow is dodging and killing simultaneously, which is impossible. xD

Sasuke was a complete noob at chakra control barely able to climb a tree and the rest is irrelevant since its a fact that neji's faster than that sasuke.

It's not though? xD This Sasuke is basically ZA Sasuke, and Neji has no speed feats that put him above Sasuke in movement speed.

I never said they cant see him moving!!! , i said they cant stop him.

How can they not stop him when they're faster than him, can see him moving, and he needs to stop moving to deal with them? Again, these aren't Naruto clones.

Good , irrelevant.

It's irrelevant that Neji's speed isn't capable of blitzing Sasuke, when your argument is that he can blitz?

In ur dreams, the same poison gas that would be seen and sensed comin by neji and neji only?? nope , are they grabbing neji or somthing? lol

He's in the middle of attacking them, how does he do this?

Translations like that and mostly anything other than viz cant be used to deduce wats exactly said as there are always multiple slight errors and different words that can change everything and that alone ends ur Bs since manga clearly agrees with my point about the byakugan.

No it doesn't. You can't decide that one interpretation that is totally unconfirmed by anything, is more valid than anything else.

And why the fck cant he???

Made-up feat requires proof.

And its shown that the 360 degree vision has to activated so ill just take ur concession.

I checked the Viz scan, and the SFX for this moment is

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. I doubt that's an "activation." It's more likely an artistic representation of Neji taking in all the information around him. Another instance of SFX being used to represent him using the Byakugan to perceive an attack coming from multiple directions during this same battle (a few pages later) was

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. I doubt he was turning it on and off during that time.

Kmt , neji would also be aware of kiba and lee and the rest doesn't even make sense.

Argument is that Neji isn't keeping track of everybody at the same time that he's performing the unprecedented Shunshin feat.

Which is why neji had to literally turn it on and expand it here right?

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]If it was just a fan thoery and 360 degree is always active then wtf is happening here genius?

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Why the fck did neji have to literally choose to use it hmmm??

Addressed above.

These stupid questions could be asked of allot of events in the manga , why did this character not do this/that at this time , its just plot but i can see that ur not willing to accept the obvious.

It's a consistent issue, so "it's just plot" doesn't apply.

Neji ran through the clones with his 360 degree vision and attack sensing , when he thought he got the real naruto and the clones started poofing , neji was obviously was not using his 360 degree vision.

So he has to activate it (already showed that this was you misinterpreting a scan), but it deactivates by itself? xD

So kangkuro tries to gas his teammates Ic??? i said to drop it...

I already said OoC above. That said, if they're all going to die anyway, I could see this Kankuro deciding to kill them off. Prelims Kankuro isn't a nice guy.

With byakugan neji can still attack and turn around almost instantly with the hyugas fast footwork. Neji easily reacts to them and kills them.

And gets gassed, unless he can kill and dodge simultaneously. If he chooses to dodge, Lee and Kiba are faster than him and will hit him.

It does because none of their attacks is catching neji with his byakugan active as iv proven above.

They are if he doesn't stop and try to counter. xD Their movement speed is faster (Kiba) or as fast as him (Lee), so he can't just run away. Argument is that he's stationary while doing this.

Yea only common sense in regards to sasuke but watever , since portrayal is obviously irrelevant.

Portrayal = Manga and Databook. :| They're not irrelevant. CE Neji has at best the same movement speed as CE Sasuke (nothing in manga contradicts this, Databook supports it), is either slower than or has the same movement speed as Weighted Lee, and has a lower movement speed than Kiba. He cannot just blitz past them unbothered and go for Sasuke, and he can't catch Sasuke with just a blitz.

But its good enough to deduce that neji stomps the 4 who rush him with ease so irrelevant.

Stay on track, the argument was whether or not he can blitz Sasuke with his movement speed, which he can't, especially not at the start of the battle with two people who are faster than him on his trail. If he's dealing with the four, he's stationary.

Yea , sasuke used it in a more complicated way since he jumped , threw 3 shuriken , then bunched off the edge of the bridge to get behind haku instantly meaning that shunshin can be more that a simple directional dash as i told u before , chakra is used to vitalise the body making it move a extreme speeds.

Then the terrain doesn't favor Neji pulling that off. Aside from that, below I'll state that I disagree with how you're portraying Sasuke's Shunshin, especially since he was midair and couldn't logically have been using Shunshin to enhance his speed until he'd actually landed.

He gets simultaneously attacked and they get simultaneously wreked as lee needs to open gates in order to beat neji's counter-reactions before kaiten , so he easily does the same to this team. If the launch random ranged attacks neji simply evades them.

This Neji doesn't "simultaneously do anything.

[Recover from the shunshin??? ohh plzzz thats nonsense when sasuke maintained his shunshin for a while and was able to react with ease.

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"Maintained?" He just did a second Shunshin, AFAI can tell, after falling back down from his jump, which took significant time. I don't see how Shunshin would have enhanced his speed in midair.

If thats ur arguemnt then it results in neji seein and sensing the gas bomb while its traveling the easily escapes leaving Lee, Kiba, Choji, and Yaroi to get gassed , only way neji also gets gassed is if they physically restrain him which they cant.

If he's in the middle of attacking them he's not also dodging. If he's dodging their attacks he's not also dodging poison gas.

And there is just too much wrong with the bold , neji would always be focued on everything goin on around him. The only ones getting gassed is kangkuro's teammates since they wont see or sense the gas unlike neji..

Even if he's aware of it, he can't simultaneously kill the four and dodge.

My win condition for Team is still solid IMO.

 

[neosmith500]

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If it's not, it still doesn't necessarily mean that he "activated" 360 degree vision. Nothing in the Byakugan actually changes, so it could just be an artistic representation of Neji taking in the information around him.

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(because he had to activate it at some point, anyway).



Argument is that Neji isn't keeping track of everybody at the same time that he's performing the unprecedented Shunshin feat.



Chakra layer =/= 360 degree vision.

Just jumpin to clarify this. Neji did use chakra layer in the scan but his vision was expanded and used to map the exact location where the dagger was heading , then he simply activated his chakra layer and this is how he also sees the gas bomb.

I already had a debate about this with forbidden truth and he conceded with me and draegod proving the point.

 

[Claymantan]

Just jumpin to clarify this. Neji did use chakra layer in the scan but his vision was expanded and used to map the exact location where the dagger was heading , then he simply activated his chakra layer and this is how he also sees the gas bomb.

I already had a debate about this with forbidden truth and he conceded with me and draegod proving the point.

I edited my post, because I reread the section (Viz version), and yeah, I agree that this expansion fx isn't chakra layer, but I still don't think it was an activation.

 

[neosmith500]

I edited my post, because I reread the section (Viz version), and yeah, I agree that this expansion fx isn't chakra layer, but I still don't think it was an activation.

I dont think its activation in the literal sense of the word , but the fact remains that when its bein used no one in this team is touching him with the strategy you presented imho tho im leaning more towards ur side due to my own vision on how i see this match ending but it would've been better if this was finals neji.

 

[Claymantan]

I dont think its activation in the literal sense of the word , but the fact remains that when its bein used no one in this team is touching him with the strategy you presented imho tho im leaning more towards ur side due to my own vision on how i see this match ending..

Well, if it's just "I'm consciously taking in the information that Byakugan passively provides me," then that's basically the same thing as what I've been saying this whole time. There were other instances throughout this fight where Neji was using Byakugan's 360 degree vision (ex: When he spotted Kidomaru, and Kidomaru's reaction was "Does he have eyes in the back of his head?"). So I really don't think there was some moment where he "activated it" in the sense of "turning on" the 360 degree vision. If there was, that moment that Arizen posted isn't it.

 

[neosmith500]

Well, if it's just "I'm consciously taking in the information that Byakugan passively provides me," then that's basically the same thing as what I've been saying this whole time. There were other instances throughout this fight where Neji was using Byakugan's 360 degree vision (ex: When he spotted Kidomaru, and Kidomaru's reaction was "Does he have eyes in the back of his head?"). So I really don't think there was some moment where he "activated it" in the sense of "turning on" the 360 degree vision. If there was, that moment that Arizen posted isn't it.

Mostly everything ur saying was already covered by forrbidden truth.
But the fact remains that each time neji was using it , he displayed feats like these

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I think its simple , neji was focusing on seeing through the dust when looking for jirobo which means he wasn't seein all around himself with his pov bein clearly illustrated at a single spot then cemented when jirobo appeared behind him , somthing that would never catch this neji off-guard.

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Its fairly similar to wat happend with naruto only neji simply turned his full on attension on wat he thought was the real naruto .

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So in a forum fight like this one , i dont see the team making the same results since its completely up to neji in regards to its usage.

 

[BLAZE]

neo u do know this is prelims neji and u guys are repeteadly using neji's feat against naruto's despite the fact 1 month gap

 

[neosmith500]

neo u do know this is prelims neji and u guys are repeteadly using neji's feat against naruto's despite the fact 1 month gap

I actually thought this was finals neji at first since its obviously a better match but i was only taking into consideration the arguement about byakugans 360 degree vision which is why i used those scans.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Not when there are multiple opponents and Neji's kaiten is restricted

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My friend that is a clear Miss you can see it in the manga itself

 

[BLAZE]

I actually thought this was finals neji at first since its obviously a better match but i was only taking into consideration the arguement about byakugans 360 degree vision which is why i used those scans.

Thats why i called out OP
He handicapped Neji by not giving him kaiten becoz prelims neji has not shown his arsenal like finals.
While blocking hinata's tenketsu he was hit but was thrashing naruto here and there in finals and was reacting to initial jin naruto

My friend that is a clear Miss you can see it in the manga itself

You really deserve those red bars
From next read the manga before quoting.

 

[neosmith500]

Thats why i called out OP
He handicapped Neji by not giving him kaiten becoz prelims neji has not shown his arsenal like finals.
While blocking hinata's tenketsu he was hit but was thrashing naruto here and there in finals and was reacting to initial jin naruto

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The part about hinata is way acid for me but keepin up with initial jin naruto seals the deal regarding his superiority and since neji is a genius its obvious he also improved greatly tho i wouldn't say he's vastly superior in taijutsu or speed like wat simbv was saying since lee leeded the gates to beat this same neji , but superior all the same.

I think this thread is dumb tbh but was a good read , i would've went in if this was sra neji or ce neji but prelims??? lol

Not as bad as hinata neging lee tho ahahahahah

 

[BLAZE]

The part about hinata is way acid for me but keepin up with initial jin naruto seals the deal regarding his superiority and since neji is a genius its obvious he also improved greatly tho i wouldn't he's vastly superior in taijutsu or speed but superior all the same.

I think this thread is dumb tbh but was a good read , i would've went in if this was sra neji or ce neji but prelims??? lol

Not as bad as hinata neging lee tho ahahahahah

Between DB1[finals] and DB 2[SRA] his taijutsu and speed both jumped by 1 point each.Considering that in 1 month training he could have gained easily enhanced both his taijutsu and speed.
yeah i know