Tsunade and Saukra vs Deidara and Kakuzu

[Natsu Shazneel]

Team 2 wins.

Kakazu solos this.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I claimed Temari has a higher chance at soloing because of KKM although I failed to mention that Kakuzu would last longer due to his abilities. Gian is easy to dodge unlike KKM because Kamatari travels in an unpredictable fashion unlike gian which travels in a straight line. Not to mention KKM is essentially Kamatari continuously moving about swinging its scythe so dodging and reacting to one or a few attacks doesn't mean you can dodge its thousands of slashes while it encircles you. Please take a

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to see what I'm talking about in more detail.

Gian isnt easy to dodge. It is require to have higher speed movement to avoid the attack. Same logic going up against Raikage blitz, Susanoo's arrow, Iron Sand spear (speed increase version), etc.

I've already countered Kakuzu's entire arsenal

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, let alone Sakura and Tsunade together. Punching the ground to create a huge rupture of rock blocks the katon+fuuton combo which can barely burn into the ground.

That is a whole other discussion at play and would require a secondary wall of text, that I wont get to. In short, I disagree on your reasoning, the point of view of Kakuzu's feats, and how it will play against Sakura. As for @Bold: Barley burn the ground? When was the last time you see Katon showed any significant of burning the ground? Even Juubi size Katon fail to coal up rubble in its path[1]

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. Wind changed in chakra nature, Katon, already obliterate any rubble in its hitbox. And Kakuzu didnt even used that nature release in a form of Zukokku.

Kakuzu doesn't have the same arsenal as Temari, so point is moot.

Not moot. He has more long range options. And has a faster jutsu execution (Raiton) which is as useful bisecting a regenerate user.

Tayuya didn't talk, she mentally thought something and KKM had to travel a good distance. Once she heard the attack, she only had the time to think eh.. before getting killed. It's pretty obvious why KKM>>dai kamaitachi no jutsu in speed. The weasel ends up circling around a diameter of hundreds of meters before gravity can pull it down. Makes Haku's "

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" look weak. The same Haku who casually intercepts War Arc Kakashi (

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)(

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), let alone Early Shippuden Kakashi who intercepts raiton gian.

It really doesn't matter if it was mentally. We know for sure that those winds did not across the 100 yard mark instantly(as I pointed out the trees being cut up further behind Tayuya's location. So it was still traveling. While we did see that Kakuzu's Futon reached its ending point being blown at the same of when it was released. Your point shows no relation of mentioning Haku's jutsu here.

Anyhow going by your logic, Sasuke isn't a top tier speedster because he couldn't run back to the portal before

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. Or maybe he is and Sakura is almost top tier in reaction speed, but that would make your claims in Sasori VS Sakura and Kakuzu VS Sakura in favor of either Akatsuki null and void.

I fail to see how this relates to my point/logic. And have idea what your rambling about .Im not arguing that Temari jutsu is slow. I'm refuting your point that Tameri jutsu is faster then Kakuzu's.

High speed is the same as being swift or fast. Not to mention those types of statements don't necessarily imply equality or inequality, but feats wise, raiton gian is indeed far slower than KKM.

No, speed is the same as swift or fast. Adding "high" into the description, add even more depth above standards of speed in NV. You have yet proved its even faster then Kakuzu's Futon, so I have yet to even be convince its in the same ledge as Raiton speed.

Prove to me that Tayuya could evade if it was in her LoS. You're ignoring the fact that Tayuya could hear it coming but couldn't complete her thought before getting killed.

You already brought up a valid point in the beginning (first quote) so Ill drop it. Even then, it still means nothing about KKM or Dai being faster then Kakuzu's Futon.

Well I think laser circus is on par with raiton gian in travel speed. I can give you some proof if you want. Anyway, raiton gian is a faster attack than Atsugai so yes that's my conclusion. However, Atsugai is far harder to dodge due to AoE.

Share because I fail to see how Gaara sand and Kunkuro's Kunai (which are equal to Laser Circus, according yo you) are even remotely close to Kakuzu's Futon, yet alone Raiton.

Most of what me and FT quoted.

Specifically?

She admit inferiority to KCM Naruto's FRS but given the fact that Temari thought her KKM may still have a chance after WCN failed implies KKM is a stronger attack.

No she admitted inferiority to FRS, she had no idea KCM has any relation to the jutsu power boost. But yes you have point that KKM is > to WCN. Although I only think its superior based on what she implied it can be used. Such as, can be used in a continuous session, and move faster. But says nothing of being superior to FRS.

As for the second statement, Temari's KKM being superior to 50% base Naruto FRS is not baseless considering how the damage KCM FRS did to the 3rd Raikage compared to a weaker attack than KKM isn't as large as the gap between KCM FRS to base 50% FRS.

That is still baseless since we have no idea how much of a gap KKM is to Naruto's KCM, yet alone against 50%. We just know all of them would have failed against the Raikage for sure.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Just as a general point using speech or text to determine lengths of time in a graphic novel/manga is perhaps one of the dumbest ideas I could possibly imagine. The words are obviously not written to get an idea of the amount of time passing, but to provide necessary information. You know things like author's intent should at least be marginally considered

 

[Icelerate]

Gian isnt easy to dodge. It is require to have higher speed movement to avoid the attack. Same logic going up against Raikage blitz, Susanoo's arrow, Iron Sand spear (speed increase version), etc.

Kakashi had no difficulty moving a rather long distance to intercept gian. That's overkill as one only needs to sidestep the bolt. Raiton gian isn't anywhere near Raikage blitz or susanoo arrow as shown in the manga and isn't even on par with iron sand spear.

That is a whole other discussion at play and would require a secondary wall of text, that I wont get to. In short, I disagree on your reasoning, the point of view of Kakuzu's feats, and how it will play against Sakura. As for @Bold: Barley burn the ground? When was the last time you see Katon showed any significant of burning the ground? Even Juubi size Katon fail to coal up rubble in its path[1]

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. Wind changed in chakra nature, Katon, already obliterate any rubble in its hitbox. And Kakuzu didnt even used that nature release in a form of Zukokku.

You basically admitted that Juubi sized katon failed to burn up rubble but then go on to say Kakuzu obliterates any rubble in its hitbox with katon+fuuton combo. So now katon+fuuton combo>Juubi sized katon? Fuuton doesn't have any feats to destroy rubble either. Raiton gian was hyped to be so penetrative that it could pierce through even a boulder so a far more spread out attack isn't going to destroy a boulder.

Not moot. He has more long range options. And has a faster jutsu execution (Raiton) which is as useful bisecting a regenerate user.

KKM isn't a linear attack and is far faster than raiton gian.

It really doesn't matter if it was mentally. We know for sure that those winds did not across the 100 yard mark instantly(as I pointed out the trees being cut up further behind Tayuya's location. So it was still traveling. While we did see that Kakuzu's Futon reached its ending point being blown at the same of when it was released. Your point shows no relation of mentioning Haku's jutsu here.

Kamatari sliced up the forest nigh instantly as per the databook. Comparing panel time is flawed because panels don't always have the same time frame in between them. Slicing up thousands of trees nigh instantly is a greater feat than Haku blitzing a dozen Naruto clones nigh instantly.

Databook 2 - Kamatari:
Kamatari paragraph, heading:
é‹*利なる大鎌でä¸�� �象を薙ぐ！
Decimated by a sharp scythe!

Kamatari paragraph:
テマリが口寄せ゠‹éš»çœ¼ã®é¼¬ã€‚動き� �¯ä¿Šæ•ã«ã—て豪快� �€ãƒ†ãƒžãƒªãŒå·¨å¤§æ‰�� �å*ã«ã‚ˆã£ã¦èµ·ã“ã�� �é¢¨ã«ä¹—ã£ã¦æš´ã‚Œå› žã‚‹ã€‚å·± の身の丈以上もの 鎌の他に、数多ã� �鎌を操り周囲の� �‰©ã‚’瞬時になぎå�� �’す様は、圧巻・㠃»ãƒ»ï¼
The one eyed weasel summoned by Temari. His movements are swift and dynamic, and he rides on the wind from Temari's giant fan, wreaking havoc. Seeing him mow down everything in an instant with a huge scythe taller than himself and countless other scythes is the best part!

Text over weasel:
斬る！
Slash!

Translated by flunko

I fail to see how this relates to my point/logic. And have idea what your rambling about .Im not arguing that Temari jutsu is slow. I'm refuting your point that Tameri jutsu is faster then Kakuzu's.

You used Tayuya mentally thinking before Kamatari can get to her as proof that its inferior in speed to Kakuzu's fuuton. I showed you why this is a false claim.

No, speed is the same as swift or fast. Adding "high" into the description, add even more depth above standards of speed in NV. You have yet proved its even faster then Kakuzu's Futon, so I have yet to even be convince its in the same ledge as Raiton speed.

Speed can be either fast or slow. Speed simply means distance/time. High speed = fast. Also Kamatari's movements are both

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and

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.

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is great speed and dynamic gives further emphasis on the great speed by demonstrating the energy Kamatari's movements have.

Moreover, KKM is not just Kamatari's movements but the speed at which Kamatari travels + the speed at which its shock waves travel.

You already brought up a valid point in the beginning (first quote) so Ill drop it. Even then, it still means nothing about KKM or Dai being faster then Kakuzu's Futon.

Part two KKM is way faster than Atsugai, part one Dai kamaitachi is most certainly vastly inferior to Atsugai in both speed, AoE and energy output. Part one KKM is probably on par.

Share because I fail to see how Gaara sand and Kunkuro's Kunai (which are equal to Laser Circus, according yo you) are even remotely close to Kakuzu's Futon, yet alone Raiton.

Darui was able to

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of his own Laser Circus much like how Kakashi matched the speed of raiton gian.

Gaara's

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. Kakashi isn't.

Specifically?

You claiming:
1) Naruto's fuuton rasengan is on par with base Naruto's FRS.
2) You claiming high speed>fast even though they are the same.
3) Raiton gian is faster than KKM.

No she admitted inferiority to FRS, she had no idea KCM has any relation to the jutsu power boost. But yes you have point that KKM is > to WCN. Although I only think its superior based on what she implied it can be used. Such as, can be used in a continuous session, and move faster. But says nothing of being superior to FRS.

The FRS she witnessed was a KCM FRS thus her hype stands for what she's seen.

KKM would end up doing more damage than WCN, that's for sure even though they work differently.

That is still baseless since we have no idea how much of a gap KKM is to Naruto's KCM, yet alone against 50%. We just know all of them would have failed against the Raikage for sure.

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and

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. KCM FRS is a superior attack but not far superior or else the 3rd Raikage would be in a much worse position. 50% base FRS is so weak that it couldn't even

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. No reason to believe base FRS would even slightly wound the Raikage's body.

Anyhow, Naruto's fuuton rasengan is far inferior to any form of FRS. Naruto's fuuton rasengan is essentially his ordinary rasengan but with fuuton chakra hence it

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.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Lmao, this is all so beyond hysterical. I guess what we do now in 2016, is not look at and compare all feats. Fine, let's go by your impeccable "logic". Kakuzu>Temari in terms of elemental lethalness, simply because it was specifically stated that Kakuzu can use high level elemental jutsu, which was not specifically said for Temari. Joke. Kakuzu>Madara in Katon, because you know, it was never outright stated that he can use high level elemental jutsu. What outstanding reasoning we have here. Kakuzu stalemating this version of Naruto and Yamato was supposed to aid your already laughable assertions? Another joke. A) Naruto literally just learned elemental manipulation. B) That was a Fuuton Rasengan, which is obviously weaker than FRS. C) At that time, Naruto's FRS was incomplete, and at only

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. D) It was only up until the War-Arc that Naruto was stated to be a better Fuuton user than Temari [

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]-[

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], which was when Naruto actually mastered FRS.

So, as implied by the manga and the use of commom sense in tandem with knowledge on the manga - Temari>Kakuzu fight Naruto in Fuuton. Thus, using your very own logic - Temari>Kakuzu.

The whole point of the strike is to stop using the logic that stating Kakuzu jutsu is inferior or weaker just because its inability to cut. This flaw logic would make it sound like its inferior to Asuma's Hien and the fact that Temari would never admit inferiority to the gale force Naruto's FRS output.

A)Irrelevant, it doesnt make the jutsu damage output weaker. He was good enough to use combination nature in his state, despite being a beginner[

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].

B) FRS being superior, based the DB describing, is based on its shape manipulation (Shiruken Blades) adding more killing power before it explodes (which comes to Futon:Rasegan damage output). It was require for Naruto to adjust to Futon:Rasegan so he can balance the ratio of Yamato Suiton, otherwise the jutsu would have failed in combination and fail to save Team 10. Same way for Kakuzu's combination jutsu. Which is why I stated the gale force damage output for Naruto's Futon to Kakuzu's are equal.

C.) Saying it was 50% easily apply that there was more room for improvement. Which we outright seen in its moving forward in arcs[

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][

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]. That goes from removing its weakness to go Close Quarters, not disappearing on him in middle of combat, and expanding its shape manipulation even further.

D.) Addressed, it has been fully mastered and improved at this point, yes. Doesnt say anything about its destructive power being increased, other then Kurama chakra and SM supporting its completeness. Which Temari had no idea about, so dont even mention chakra increase. She admitted the jutsu itself is superior.

So by logic, Temari admitting inferior to FRS, based off its gale force it presented to her, had showed no relevancy that her ability to cut doesn't make it any stronger of a jutsu.

Dude. Lmfao. Temari's form of Fuuton is more lethal in all aspects. Hidan doesn't possess any form of immediate healing close to Byakugou, and even you thankfully (and surprisingly) didn't contest the notion of Temari's Fuuton being far more successful on Hidan than Kakuzu's. So what are you even possibly trying to prove with this? Stating her Fuuton working better on healers says absolutely nothing. It works better on non-healers too. Why? Because it's flat out has more killing potential. The bottom line is, Atsugai isn't killing anyone with Hidan level durability (which isn't significant). It not possessing cutting priorities is a piss poor excuse, because if it actually carried enough wind pressure and killing potential, Hidan would of been flattened. Point, blank, period. A very similar attack in Hirudora obliterated a V3 Susano'o, and would of done the same to Hidan. Atsugai simply isn't as strong as you wish so incredibly hard to believe. So once again, irrelevant and doesn't aid your laughable points. Stop wasting my time.

As addressed above. Using Hidan as example simply doesnt support your point simply because Hidan's body doesnt work the same as other characters.

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and they regenerate as if it never happened. When we see Byakugou characters (or healers) getting then bodies punched[

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] they simple have the regenerate it back. None of your example even begin to support the logical damage its to be done yet alone , is suppose to do against Hidan as I presented. Because his immortal body simple doesnt work as a chakra defense or casual healers.

Inb4 Ray Charles. Only you would trust an unofficial translation from Japanese to English over what is clear cut shown in the drawing. They made cracks in his Edo body, and the Edo body material was dispersing. That signifies some sort of damage. Not anything significant, but it was damage. You can't possibly deny it (Not surprised that you actually did), and I'm not going to waste my time here discussing your fantasy version of the manga. Moving on now. Yes, her Fuuton was combined with 2 others, but she was easily the most skilled, as stated, and obviously held the most contributions. Then we have the fact that she had an ace up her sleeve that she hadn't tried - a continuously faster KKM. So what was displayed, wasn't her strongest attack.

This hypocrite much? Lmao. Arent we all using unofficial trans since we dont have access to viz? Please stop Viz

quote:

No matter how many times we attack, theres no effect... We haven't inflict any damage!

It really doesnt change anything viz or not. There are always crack signatures in Edo. All you can do is argue that same permanent cracks you see on Raikage is somehow the same damage done with Temari which makes no logical sense for that to happen, yet alone context supporting the case that you are simply wrong.

KKM can be used in a continuous session, and moves faster, doesn't automatically means the damage output is superior. It simply means it works better if it were to be continuous manner, other then WCN. Which again Dodai debunks the fact that it will still be useless, since she withdrew her statement to work.

Here we go again. Please, read what I wrote more carefully, because I never denied the bold. In this instance, I was specifically talking about Gian and Raikiri clashing. Again, Raikiri penetrative power depends upon being thrusted. It doesn't work properly by Kakashi activating Raikiri and keeping his arm at a standstill. Gian cancelling out Raikiri (used in a defensive manner here) was solely due to being of the same element and chakra quantities, just as the DB stated. Furthermore, Gian is a stream of lightening. Thus, the chakra is distributed along the stream, very much unlike Raikiri. So the whole Gian=Rakiri thing is you reaching for the stars. And you're once again taking the statement of Kakuzu using high level elemental techniques and running miles upon miles with it. Okay, we get it, he uses elemental jutsu at a high level. That doesn't go to say that he is the only one who has achieved this, just because it wasn't specifically stated for everyone else. A Jounin tier Yamato is in this elemental discussion with Kakuzu, based on the stalemate. That really doesn't say a whole lot for Kakuzu, sorry guy.

Your whole argument is reaching. You explaining the obvious, doesnt change the fact that it doesnt define anything of Raikiri being superior then Gian. If you thinking Kakashi, moving in thrust motion, is suppose to beat Gian then bring your evidence. Till then stop making excuses. Kakashi clearly engaged Gian, and he obviously thrust his hands forward to block the attack. And the very fact that Gian vibration teared off Kakashi's garment, when using Raikirki defensively, isnt even working out your case at all.

Don't see what you're possibly trying to prove with that scan. What Shikamaru did to Hidan is the equivalent to killing him. He was finished. We never seen or heard about him again. All the sudden the most commonly used source of the manga around here becomes me clinging to the worst translation, lmao. I'll request a Viz translation of those pages. I have no idea what you mean with the bold. Hidan has luckily never crossed paths with Temari.

It proving that Shikimaru thinks different then you. You think that its equivalent to killing him, while Shikirmaru doesnt.

@Underline then Ill wait for you to support your own positive claims then, using Viz scan. Till then I'm going by the translated thats more accurate then other references of Kakuzu and Hidan's history[

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]. Which says nothing about Kakuzu attempting to kill Hidan, yet alone multiple times.

@Bold means that you thinking that Hidan immortality makes Kakuzu ninjutsu ineffective by its own aspects, means the same to Temari. Such as Raiton not being able to dismember Hidan. So by that logic I would say the same as Temari's Futon. Which is sarcasm btw

Your continuous ironic accusations and fantasy version of the manga that you create in your head is whats actually baffling. But, whatever you say guy. Honestly, If you prefer just addressing Icelerate, that would be totally fine with me.

I have to make sure you are fine that I can stop responding to you and focus on Ice. Cool because it is tiring to have to break down scans for you to stop downplaying feats and manga interpretation for your personal bidding.

 

[Zexion~]

:lol Kakuzu's fuuton > Temari's..... if not equal to it.

Temari's is slower and easier to avoid.

 

[Curse Mark]

:lol Kakuzu's fuuton > Temari's..... if not equal to it.

Temari's is slower and easier to avoid.

One of them actually does damage :lol


[SUB]It's temari's[/SUB]

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kakashi had no difficulty moving a rather long distance to intercept gian. That's overkill as one only needs to sidestep the bolt. Raiton gian isn't anywhere near Raikage blitz or susanoo arrow as shown in the manga and isn't even on par with iron sand spear.

First sentence is speculation, you have no idea the distance Kakashi was, coming back. Same logic in this video:

​

Would you consider that Clint Eastwood is faster then the bullet, based on the fact that he jump towards the bullet just in time to cover the President? And therefore is capable of dodging a bullet? This isnt any good reason to use that logic against Kakashi interception.

You basically admitted that Juubi sized katon failed to burn up rubble but then go on to say Kakuzu obliterates any rubble in its hitbox with katon+fuuton combo. So now katon+fuuton combo>Juubi sized katon? Fuuton doesn't have any feats to destroy rubble either. Raiton gian was hyped to be so penetrative that it could pierce through even a boulder so a far more spread out attack isn't going to destroy a boulder.

Yes, I [

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]go ahead and say that based on the fact that Zukokku has the supported [

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]. And [

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] statement supports the fact that its combustion its capable of doing. And the fact the a small generic version of the attack already performed it[

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]. Dont need feats to use some common sense and logic. DB states it can, feats shows it Futon equal to Futon:Rasegan "changed in nature". And its combination (changed in nature) with Katon enables his own Katon to do it.

KKM isn't a linear attack and is far faster than raiton gian.

@Bold Which your argument only shows a faulty premise to support that claim.

Kamatari sliced up the forest nigh instantly as per the databook. Comparing panel time is flawed because panels don't always have the same time frame in between them. Slicing up thousands of trees nigh instantly is a greater feat than Haku blitzing a dozen Naruto clones nigh instantly.

Your statement is faulty. DB states instant. You state near instant. You are contradicting the DB. Yet alone using its exaggerate expression to support your claim makes you say that its on par with FTG, and faster then Raikage, and other speedsters, which is also faulty. No feats you presented matched what Haku did to Naruto.

You used Tayuya mentally thinking before Kamatari can get to her as proof that its inferior in speed to Kakuzu's fuuton. I showed you why this is a false claim.

I didnt only used that, I used the fact that I pointed out where the wind was while while Tayuya was in further in position. Where there is NO induction of Kakuzu's Futon ever shown destination "struggle" being filmed. Therefore your faulty premise does not support the fact that Temari's Futon is faster then Kakuzus.

Speed can be either fast or slow. Speed simply means distance/time. High speed = fast. Also Kamatari's movements are both

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and

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.

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is great speed and dynamic gives further emphasis on the great speed by demonstrating the energy Kamatari's movements have.

While we have Kakuzu bolt, stating to be difficult to dodge, and compared it to lighting strike itself. Wind speed by nature is inferior to lightening speed. So regardless its clear which one travels faster based on these statement.

Part two KKM is way faster than Atsugai, part one Dai kamaitachi is most certainly vastly inferior to Atsugai in both speed, AoE and energy output. Part one KKM is probably on par.

Baseless.

Darui was able to

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of his own Laser Circus much like how Kakashi matched the speed of raiton gian.

He didnt match it speed, when he wasnt in the first panel it was fired. Even then I addressed Kaskashi flawed logic

Gaara's

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. Kakashi isn't.

This isnt comparable bro. Comparing wide range attack???

You claiming:
1) Naruto's fuuton rasengan is on par with base Naruto's FRS.
2) You claiming high speed>fast even though they are the same.
3) Raiton gian is faster than KKM.

1.)Never said that. And Im assuming you skim through my discussion with FT? Because this is what I said to him:

FRS being superior, based the DB describing, is based on its shape manipulation (Shiruken Blades) adding more killing power before it explodes (which comes to Futon:Rasegan damage output). It was require for Naruto to adjust to Futon:Rasegan so he can balance the ratio of Yamato Suiton, otherwise the jutsu would have failed in combination and fail to save Team 10. Same way for Kakuzu's combination jutsu. Which is why I stated the gale force damage output for Naruto's Futon to Kakuzu's are equal.

So you need to read my stuff carefully.

2.) Which makes 100% sense based on the fact that "high" is the ad·jec·tive, adding depth to the word "speed".

3.) Which isnt ridiculous at all. Its your faulty premise and the overrating showes that its not true. The fact that you think a Kunai launch via Akahigi: Kiki Sankaku is faster then Gian is horrendous.

The FRS she witnessed was a KCM FRS thus her hype stands for what she's seen.

KKM would end up doing more damage than WCN, that's for sure even though they work differently.

It would make sense if she knew KCM had any significant to its power so no.

No Im not going to take your word for it. Until you can prove it can output more damage then ill agree. Till then Im going to go by the manga stating its faster and continuous process is why she thought it would be more useful gaining the time to seal Rakage.

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and

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. KCM FRS is a superior attack but not far superior or else the 3rd Raikage would be in a much worse position. 50% base FRS is so weak that it couldn't even

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. No reason to believe base FRS would even slightly wound the Raikage's body.

KCM FRS vaporizing opponents from its gale force is baseless so you have no point.

Anyhow, Naruto's fuuton rasengan is far inferior to any form of FRS. Naruto's fuuton rasengan is essentially his ordinary rasengan but with fuuton chakra hence it

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.

Useless point brining up still a Rasengan not even 50% done yet. So Im going to repeat what I said to FT, the difference.

") FRS being superior, based the DB describing, is based on its shape manipulation (Shiruken Blades) adding more killing power before it explodes (which comes to Futon:Rasegan damage output). It was require for Naruto to adjust to Futon:Rasegan so he can balance the ratio of Yamato Suiton, otherwise the jutsu would have failed in combination and fail to save Team 10. Same way for Kakuzu's combination jutsu. Which is why I stated the gale force damage output for Naruto's Futon to Kakuzu's are equal. "

"Saying it was 50% easily apply that there was more room for improvement. Which we outright seen in its moving forward in arcs[

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][

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]. That goes from removing its weakness to go Close Quarters, not disappearing on him in middle of combat, and expanding its shape manipulation even further. "

I find it ironic that I can use both you and FT faulty logic to support the fact that Fūton: Kazekiri no Jutsu > KCM Naruto FRS based on the damage result they did on Multi-Headed Dog. Can we stop this logic now?

 

[Icelerate]

First sentence is speculation, you have no idea the distance Kakashi was, coming back. Same logic in this video:

​

Would you consider that Clint Eastwood is faster then the bullet, based on the fact that he jump towards the bullet just in time to cover the President? And therefore is capable of dodging a bullet? This isnt any good reason to use that logic against Kakashi interception.

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after dodging Atsugai unlike Kakuzu so I have no idea how this video proves your point. Clint started travelling way before the guy shot the bullet.

Yes, I [

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]go ahead and say that based on the fact that Zukokku has the supported [

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]. And [

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] statement supports the fact that its combustion its capable of doing. And the fact the a small generic version of the attack already performed it[

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]. Dont need feats to use some common sense and logic. DB states it can, feats shows it Futon equal to Futon:Rasegan "changed in nature". And its combination (changed in nature) with Katon enables his own Katon to do it.

Hollow dead trees much thinner than the solid rock rubble that Sakura and Tsunade can create doesn't prove it can destroy the rubble.

Your statement is faulty. DB states instant. You state near instant. You are contradicting the DB. Yet alone using its exaggerate expression to support your claim makes you say that its on par with FTG, and faster then Raikage, and other speedsters, which is also faulty. No feats you presented matched what Haku did to Naruto.

I never used the hyperbole to claim it is on par with FTG and faster than Raikage, quit the straw-man. Slicing thousands of trees>>taking out dozens of clones.

I didnt only used that, I used the fact that I pointed out where the wind was while while Tayuya was in further in position. Where there is NO induction of Kakuzu's Futon ever shown destination "struggle" being filmed. Therefore your faulty premise does not support the fact that Temari's Futon is faster then Kakuzus.

What destination struggle are you on about?

While we have Kakuzu bolt, stating to be difficult to dodge, and compared it to lighting strike itself. Wind speed by nature is inferior to lightening speed. So regardless its clear which one travels faster based on these statement.

So now I can't use the databook hype but you can? Not all lightning attacks are faster than wind attacks.

He didnt match it speed, when he wasnt in the first panel it was fired. Even then I addressed Kaskashi flawed logic

Darui first fired the laser circus before shunshining to the other bro before laser circus exploded so he did travel at around the same speed. No you didn't.

This isnt comparable bro. Comparing wide range attack???

The range wasn't the problem, Deidara got surrounded faster than he could move out of the way. Gaara's sand being wide range still wouldn't trap Deidara if Deidara could outrun the wave of sand coming at him.

1.)Never said that. And Im assuming you skim through my discussion with FT? Because this is what I said to him:

FRS being superior, based the DB describing, is based on its shape manipulation (Shiruken Blades) adding more killing power before it explodes (which comes to Futon:Rasegan damage output). It was require for Naruto to adjust to Futon:Rasegan so he can balance the ratio of Yamato Suiton, otherwise the jutsu would have failed in combination and fail to save Team 10. Same way for Kakuzu's combination jutsu. Which is why I stated the gale force damage output for Naruto's Futon to Kakuzu's are equal.


So you need to read my stuff carefully.

Prove to me the shuriken don't add more killing power when FRS explodes. Then how come fuuton rasengan stalemates Kakashi's rasengan? Their explosive power is no where near FRS.

2.) Which makes 100% sense based on the fact that "high" is the ad·jec·tive, adding depth to the word "speed".

Adding high to speed makes the speed fast. Before adding the adjective high, speed in and of itself can be either fast or slow. Swift and dynamic hype up speed twice anyway so what's your point?

3.) Which isnt ridiculous at all. Its your faulty premise and the overrating showes that its not true. The fact that you think a Kunai launch via Akahigi: Kiki Sankaku is faster then Gian is horrendous.

It was propelled by a puppet, not thrown by Kankuro so it ought to be much faster than an ordinary thrown kunai.

It would make sense if she knew KCM had any significant to its power so no.

First off prove to me Temari doesn't know bijuu chakra improves power. She's the elder sister of a former jinchuuriki.

No Im not going to take your word for it. Until you can prove it can output more damage then ill agree. Till then Im going to go by the manga stating its faster and continuous process is why she thought it would be more useful gaining the time to seal Rakage.

Temari was going to use KKM despite WCN not doing enough damage hence KKM outputs more damage. It being faster wouldn't matter because speed was never the issue as WCN was already fast enough. Let's assume KKM is only as strong as WCN, then KKM being a continuous attack would do worse against an edo Raikage considering the Raikage is continuously regenerating as he's getting hit. So the only logical conclusion is that KKM is a stronger attack than WCN which also makes sense because part one Temari's strongest fuuton (

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) was

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than

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.

KCM FRS vaporizing opponents from its gale force is baseless so you have no point.

A weaker SM FRS already did so with ease (

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)(

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) and it wasn't even a direct hit.

Useless point brining up still a Rasengan not even 50% done yet. So Im going to repeat what I said to FT, the difference.

") FRS being superior, based the DB describing, is based on its shape manipulation (Shiruken Blades) adding more killing power before it explodes (which comes to Futon:Rasegan damage output). It was require for Naruto to adjust to Futon:Rasegan so he can balance the ratio of Yamato Suiton, otherwise the jutsu would have failed in combination and fail to save Team 10. Same way for Kakuzu's combination jutsu. Which is why I stated the gale force damage output for Naruto's Futon to Kakuzu's are equal. "

"Saying it was 50% easily apply that there was more room for improvement. Which we outright seen in its moving forward in arcs[

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][

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]. That goes from removing its weakness to go Close Quarters, not disappearing on him in middle of combat, and expanding its shape manipulation even further. "

The databook explicitly claims that the destructive power of a perfected FRS is on a whole other level (

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). It's destructive power being on a whole other level has nothing to do with it being thrown or not disappearing as the destructive power would remain the same even if it is thrown or even if it has a 100% success rate.

I find it ironic that I can use both you and FT faulty logic to support the fact that Fūton: Kazekiri no Jutsu > KCM Naruto FRS based on the damage result they did on Multi-Headed Dog. Can we stop this logic now?

Yes because a leg of the dog is on par in durability with its entire body. Also that scan can actually be used against you since Temari's fuuton are all cutting attacks just like Kazekiri no jutsu so by nature they are more penetrative than Kakuzu's Atsugai or FRS' explosion. More penetrative power allows her to break through tougher defenses.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

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after dodging Atsugai unlike Kakuzu so I have no idea how this video proves your point. Clint started travelling way before the guy shot the bullet.

Thats exactly my point. Both scenario shows no sign of Kakashi (or Clint) in the initial discharge. Until it was fired[

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].

Hollow dead trees much thinner than the solid rock rubble that Sakura and Tsunade can create doesn't prove it can destroy the rubble.

Are you still skim reading my points? Because I cant possibility figure how out how you got dead hollow trres being used in my quote to prove my point. Its clear as day the scan being used supports the feats of Katon's combustion breaking apart solid ground. And the fact that DB made it clear that Futon can gore the earth, much like Rasengan's Galeforce.

I never used the hyperbole to claim it is on par with FTG and faster than Raikage, quit the straw-man. Slicing thousands of trees>>taking out dozens of clones.

Then stop emphasizing the winds doing its work instantly as you mentioned. Which is once again baseless since once again the feat Haku perform, on paper, was still faster then what you are trying to demonstrate with Temari.

What destination struggle are you on about?

The fact the KKM has not yet reach Tayuya in the scan I have been emphasizing.

So now I can't use the databook hype but you can? Not all lightning attacks are faster than wind attacks.

If I were to used hype I would have mentioned the statement used that it can slay enemies in a instant. But I didnt. Raiton is the only jutsus know of creating high frequency vibrations of their chakra, allowing, which also allows fast movement. Raikage being a dead give away example. The only thing arguable for @Bold is if Raiton is depentent with the characters own movement of the jutsu.

Darui first fired the laser circus before shunshining to the other bro before laser circus exploded so he did travel at around the same speed. No you didn't.

Which isnt evidence based on the fact we already seen the laser reached it target. The only thing you can compare is Darui speed being faster then the wave it created from impact. Either way none of this even proves its even faster then Gian

The range wasn't the problem, Deidara got surrounded faster than he could move out of the way. Gaara's sand being wide range still wouldn't trap Deidara if Deidara could outrun the wave of sand coming at him.

Not taking this quote seriously Ice. "Range" Not being a problem doesnt changed the fact that its based on range, while Gaara's gourd sand is based on speed.

Prove to me the shuriken don't add more killing power when FRS explodes. Then how come fuuton rasengan stalemates Kakashi's rasengan? Their explosive power is no where near FRS.

Did I not give you a reference? Here it is in simple terms, from the full DB I gave. FRS has two process 1.)[

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] once its done cutting up the opponent, then the Rasengan itself[

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] defused into a powerful galeforce.

Adding high to speed makes the speed fast. Before adding the adjective high, speed in and of itself can be either fast or slow. Swift and dynamic hype up speed twice anyway so what's your point?

Speed never ever means slow in the context I am using, stop reaching. The point is that it isnt evidence to say it moves faster when both DB claims explained that our jutsus are fast. Which means the only thing we can argue on what makes out jutsus faster then each other. And the feats you are demonstrating has not prove your jutsu is faster.

It was propelled by a puppet, not thrown by Kankuro so it ought to be much faster than an ordinary thrown kunai.

And therefore much faster then Gian? Lol come on dude.

First off prove to me Temari doesn't know bijuu chakra improves power. She's the elder sister of a former jinchuuriki.

You are asking me to prove a negative claim Ice, thats a fallacy. Only evidence there is for her intel is that Jins wield massive amount of chakra. Does not say anything about jutsu power increase.

Temari was going to use KKM despite WCN not doing enough damage hence KKM outputs more damage. It being faster wouldn't matter because speed was never the issue as WCN was already fast enough. Let's assume KKM is only as strong as WCN, then KKM being a continuous attack would do worse against an edo Raikage considering the Raikage is continuously regenerating as he's getting hit. So the only logical conclusion is that KKM is a stronger attack than WCN which also makes sense because part one Temari's strongest fuuton (

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) was

You must be registered for see links

than

You must be registered for see links

.

[

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]. Based on Kabuto, the damage output from an attack varies the time of regeneration of an Edo. So no KKM wont do worst based on the fact that a continuous attack could be more useful.

A weaker SM FRS already did so with ease (

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)(

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) and it wasn't even a direct hit.

Read. I said Gale force(Explosion). 2 different processed from a FRS. Of course the giant fan blade from wind would do that to a human body.

The databook explicitly claims that the destructive power of a perfected FRS is on a whole other level (

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). It's destructive power being on a whole other level has nothing to do with it being thrown or not disappearing as the destructive power would remain the same even if it is thrown or even if it has a 100% success rate.

Not just that, but the fact that he still had more room with its shape manipulation as I mentioned (SM did against Human being a good example). So it has everything to do with that based on the fact that the its full context talked about its weakness. And based on the fact that FRS has yet shown to being any stronger to the characters it was launched at via Multi head dog. In fact that Gale force range was outright the same compare to him being incomplete with it.

Yes because a leg of the dog is on par in durability with its entire body. Also that scan can actually be used against you since Temari's fuuton are all cutting attacks just like Kazekiri no jutsu so by nature they are more penetrative than Kakuzu's Atsugai or FRS' explosion. More penetrative power allows her to break through tougher defenses.

Who the hell argued that Atsugai is penetrated jutsu again? Who the hell argued that FRS explosion is penetrative again? This isnt much to say with this quote as now you are saying Temari Futon > Naruto's, when it was already established wrong.

 

[Lord Tywin]

bruh...Temari's futon being anywhere close to Naruto's is a just funny

 

[FarmeRob]

Tsunade and sakura because they can both learn recover and heal bell.

 

[LoZelda101]

Kakuzu soloing this is a joke, he'd lose to either

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or Tsunade but Deidara can take them down with C3 although 10% Katsuyu might be used as a meat shield so I don't know.

How? Tsunade is slow as ****. All he needs to do tangle her like he did naruto and rip her heart out.

 

[Tazzilla88]

How? Tsunade is slow as ****. All he needs to do tangle her like he did naruto and rip her heart out.

She's so slow she was able to keep up with all the other kage in their battle....
Yeah, tangling her up when she has the greatest physical strength in the NV seems like the move

 

[LoZelda101]

She's so slow she was able to keep up with all the other kage in their battle....
Yeah, tangling her up when she has the greatest physical strength in the NV seems like the move

Madara was caught off guard.

 

[LoZelda101]

She's so slow she was able to keep up with all the other kage in their battle....
Yeah, tangling her up when she has the greatest physical strength in the NV seems like the move

Madara was caught off guard. That would not had happened 1on1. But i guess she could grab kakuzu hair and toss him with her strength.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Madara was caught off guard. That would not had happened 1on1. But i guess she could grab kakuzu hair and toss him with her strength.

That's not the only thing I was referring to I'd be referring to this

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And This

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This

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Oh and This too

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On the second point, I agree it would be something like this

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[LoZelda101]

That's not the only thing I was referring to I'd be referring to this

Spoiler

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And This

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This

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Oh and This too

Spoiler

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On the second point, I agree it would be something like this

Spoiler

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These are just her charging in with speed, not what I'm referring to. I'm talking about actual CQC. Her punches or kicks will not one shot all of kakuzu 4 hearts asap and even if she could react fast enough to dodge some of the hair or extended arm his phase 2 form could still go underground and grab her by surprise. Thou i wonder if her chakra scalps could cut through it?

 

[RedRobin]

Tsunade moved a gigantic sword through the air and pushed it into a giant snake. To think Kakuzu's threads would be a match to her is ridiculous.

 

[RedRobin]

How? Tsunade is slow as ****. All he needs to do tangle her like he did naruto and rip her heart out.

Explain.