Tsunade and Saukra vs Deidara and Kakuzu

[Genyūmaru1]

Nano bombs ftw


Edit: -.- why is it restricted I'm tired of all these threads with redirections if u have to restrict a character then clearly that shows u who would win ...

Nothing, but facts.

 

[Tazzilla88]

The only problem here would be deidara , however given these restrictions the medics would be more likely to win and with very high margins of victory mainly due to Kakuzu's inability to compete seriously here.

 

[Icelerate]

Let me get this straight? The logic of Temeri soloing byakugou duo is by casual casually swinging her fan around until they are down? But its a joke of Kakuzu soloing when he is capable of using superior, multiple elemental scaling, covering more angles then she can put out?

Lol ok.

No one claimed Temari would solo. I made the claim that Temari would have the better chance at soloing than Kakuzu but that doesn't mean she'd win. Not to mention no one said Temari would mindlessly swing around her fan like you are claiming. I was talking about KKM which is one swing and that attack is far faster and stronger than any of Kakuzu's.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Deidara could solo both.

 

[Claymantan]

All this debate and no one's mentioned Domu?

 

[NarutoX28]

All this debate and no one's mentioned Domu?

I don't think it would matter much depending on how Kakuzu approaches the battle. I think it'd be more logical for Kakuzu to be mounted on Deidara's bird like Sasori was which in this case, it's useless as the gang can't really land a solid hit to begin with.

 

[Claymantan]

I don't think it would matter much depending on how Kakuzu approaches the battle. I think it'd be more logical for Kakuzu to be mounted on Deidara's bird like Sasori was which in this case, it's useless as the gang can't really land a solid hit to begin with.

The discussion seems to have turned into a debate on whether or not Kakuzu can solo, though. That's why I brought it up.

 

[NarutoX28]

The discussion seems to have turned into a debate on whether or not Kakuzu can solo, though. That's why I brought it up.

Ah.

Wouldn't help him because he'd be immobilized.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

No one claimed Temari would solo. I made the claim that Temari would have the better chance at soloing than Kakuzu but that doesn't mean she'd win.

Still a ridiculous claim for obvious reasons. Kakuzu is much superior then Temari by physical stats, elements, and the fact that Kakuzu is on the same tier as Deidara.

Not to mention no one said Temari would mindlessly swing around her fan like you are claiming.

When did I say mindlessly? I said casually, as in how she would normally fight via long range fanning. Thats literately her fighting style.

I was talking about KKM which is one swing and that attack is far faster

@Bold is Baseless. There are no comments ever made of this jutsu travel speed being fast. While they're comments made by Atsugai that 1. DB stating how the attack comes out so sudden (and presented in the manga). 2.) Needed the likes of skilled Sharingan to anticipate it. So even if you were to use ABC logic of comparing her attack speed to someone elses, it still doesn't match these 2 point I made.

and stronger than any of Kakuzu's.

Which is one of the worst claims you and another could of ever made. So I'm going to repeat what I say to FT:

Kishomoto made it manga fact that Kakuzu element reaches high level[

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]. Something never stated by Temari of reaching. 2.) By feats the logic of exchanged, his futon (changed nature) matched the power of Naruto's Futon (changed nature)[

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] making them dead equal in power. Which is once again superior then Temari Futon.

 

[super yang]

domu is an ill-fitting, meaningless part of kakuzu arsenal

hes an all-offfensive character who has some major physical invulnerability traits w/o the jutsu, allowing him to stay mobile
his ragdoll durability is in a special class already...

and his ''domu punch'' is redundant in the face of his tendril rape & already enhanced strength

 

[ToshiZO]

domu is an ill-fitting, meaningless part of kakuzu arsenal

hes an all-offfensive character who has some major physical invulnerability traits w/o the jutsu, allowing him to stay mobile
his ragdoll durability is in a special class already...

and his ''domu punch'' is redundant in the face of his tendril rape & already enhanced strength

It's great as a last minute defense. Anytime someone manages to get by his offensive onslaught he can fall back on domu to protect himself from an incoming attack.

 

[Icelerate]

Still a ridiculous claim for obvious reasons. Kakuzu is much superior then Temari by physical stats, elements, and the fact that Kakuzu is on the same tier as Deidara.

Gamakichi is far inferior to Kisame but you put him on the same matchup. Joki Boi is also far inferior to base Hashirama yet you put him on the same match up. Since when were stats or tiers important to you? I find it funny that you think it is ridiculous even though Temari has something that Kakuzu doesn't have which you usually acknowledge but your love for the Akatsuki seems to be blinding you.

When did I say mindlessly? I said casually, as in how she would normally fight via long range fanning. Thats literately her fighting style.

Does that matter? Her using the fan doesn't make her fighting style inferior to Kakuzu. The fact she spews out powerful slicing attacks unlike Kakuzu makes her a better match-up against regen/immortal characters. In spite of Hidan being far inferior to Kakuzu, Temari would take Hidan out with less effort than Kakuzu would.

@Bold is Baseless. There are no comments ever made of this jutsu travel speed being fast. While they're comments made by Atsugai that 1. DB stating how the attack comes out so sudden (and presented in the manga). 2.) Needed the likes of skilled Sharingan to anticipate it. So even if you were to use ABC logic of comparing her attack speed to someone elses, it still doesn't match these 2 point I made.

Sudden doesn't mean the travelling speed is fast.

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hence one can be caught off guard by surprise.

Now let us compare this to KKM. This is what the databook has to say about Kamatari.

Databook 2 - Kamatari:

Spoiler

Kamatari paragraph, heading:
é‹*利なる大鎌でä¸�� �象を薙ぐ！
Decimated by a sharp scythe!

Kamatari paragraph:
テマリが口寄せ゠‹éš»çœ¼ã®é¼¬ã€‚動き� �¯ä¿Šæ•ã«ã—て豪快� �€ãƒ†ãƒžãƒªãŒå·¨å¤§æ‰�� �å*ã«ã‚ˆã£ã¦èµ·ã“ã�� �é¢¨ã«ä¹—ã£ã¦æš´ã‚Œå› žã‚‹ã€‚å·± の身の丈以上もの 鎌の他に、数多ã� �鎌を操り周囲の� �‰©ã‚’瞬時になぎå�� �’す様は、圧巻・㠃»ãƒ»ï¼
The one eyed weasel summoned by Temari. His movements are swift and dynamic, and he rides on the wind from Temari's giant fan, wreaking havoc. Seeing him mow down everything in an instant with a huge scythe taller than himself and countless other scythes is the best part!

Text over weasel:
斬る！
Slash!

Translated by flunko

Therefore the databook claims it to be swift/fast and the manga shows it mowing down everything within a diameter of hundreds of meters nigh instantly. This was just part one though.

Now let us compare Atsugai to his raiton gian which is actually

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unlike Atsugai. The databook claims the attack flies at a high speed which is not as vague as erupting suddenly so raiton gian>Atsugai in travelling speed.

Anyhow, Kakashi was able to evade Atsugai from close range despite also having to focus on Hidan's flurry of attacks. Kakuzu wasn't referring to Atsugai alone, he was referring to the whole combo when he claimed that the sharingan helped him (center-left panel).

Temari herself has hyped the speed of KKM (

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) so it ought to be faster than

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which was already too fast for base 3rd Raikage to react to.

Still not convinced? Well Temari's strongest non collaborative technique in part one was

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which

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but she couldn't properly move in response to KKM thus KKM is far faster than dai kamaitachi no jutsu. Fast forward to Shippuden, Temari's strongest non collaborative attack is

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which is

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. Darui's laser circus was fast enough to blitz the Kin/Gin bros (

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)(

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) who are fast enough to

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who ought to be faster than the likes of Shikamaru and Chouj based on being a Kumo jounin specializing in sword-fighting.

Therefore, KKM is far faster than any of Kakuzu's ninjutsu without a shadow of a doubt.

Which is one of the worst claims you and another could of ever made. So I'm going to repeat what I say to FT:

Not nearly as bad as the majority of what you claim in this thread.

Kishomoto made it manga fact that Kakuzu element reaches high level[

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]. Something never stated by Temari of reaching. 2.) By feats the logic of exchanged, his futon (changed nature) matched the power of Naruto's Futon (changed nature)[

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] making them dead equal in power. Which is once again superior then Temari Futon.

According to you Kakuzu is a high level fuuton user but Temari isn't? What a joke! Temari was hyped to be able to

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. This is an exaggeration but the hype of being a high level fuuton user still stands nonetheless and it is much better than any of Kakuzu's hype in regards to offensive ability. Furthermore, Temari couldn't think of a fuuton user stronger than herself (

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) so she's obviously a high level fuuton user in her own right without even considering the collaborative KKM which is far stronger than any of her individual fuuton attacks.

Naruto's wind element rasengan isn't anywhere near KKM in power based on KKM being a superior attack to collaborative wind cast net. No reason to believe either Kakuzu or base Naruto can output anywhere near as much power in a fuuton mask or wind rasengan as something done by a high level fuuton user + some others.

Moreover, Temari would have information on base Naruto's fuuton prowess through Shikamaru so she's a superior fuuton user to base Naruto based on how she can't think of anyone with stronger fuuton attacks.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Gamakichi is far inferior to Kisame but you put him on the same matchup. Joki Boi is also far inferior to base Hashirama yet you put him on the same match up. Since when were stats or tiers important to you? I find it funny that you think it is ridiculous even though Temari has something that Kakuzu doesn't have which you usually acknowledge but your love for the Akatsuki seems to be blinding you.

Icelerate stop misquoting me. I have not once argued that Temari is or isnt able to solo them, nor stated she isnt a bad match up for the characters were discussing. I clearly pointed on the fact that you think Temari has a better chance then Kakuzu, using no logically reason at all (but downplaying feats). Thats the issue were addressing and nothing more. @Bold is where you wrong. Just because his Futon lacks the ability to cut doesnt change the fact that he has other jutsu that does via Gian. And an attack that would ruin byakugou duo whole move set and body via Futon+Katon combo.

Does that matter? Her using the fan doesn't make her fighting style inferior to Kakuzu. The fact she spews out powerful slicing attacks unlike Kakuzu makes her a better match-up against regen/immortal characters. In spite of Hidan being far inferior to Kakuzu, Temari would take Hidan out with less effort than Kakuzu would.

It matters when you try to misquote my point. I brought her fighting style simply because we can use the same exact logic of Kakuzu using the same exact choice, if he thought deem appropriate for the match up.

1.)Sudden doesn't mean the travelling speed is fast.

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hence one can be caught off guard by surprise.

2.)Now let us compare this to KKM. This is what the databook has to say about Kamatari.

Databook 2 - Kamatari:

Therefore the databook claims it to be swift/fast and the manga shows it mowing down everything within a diameter of hundreds of meters nigh instantly. This was just part one though.

3.)Now let us compare Atsugai to his raiton gian which is actually

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unlike Atsugai. The databook claims the attack flies at a high speed which is not as vague as erupting suddenly so raiton gian>Atsugai in travelling speed.

4.)Anyhow, Kakashi was able to evade Atsugai from close range despite also having to focus on Hidan's flurry of attacks. Kakuzu wasn't referring to Atsugai alone, he was referring to the whole combo when he claimed that the sharingan helped him (center-left panel).

5.)Temari herself has hyped the speed of KKM (

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) so it ought to be faster than

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which was too fast for base 3rd Raikage to react to.

6.)Still not convinced? Well Temari's strongest non collaborative technique in part one was

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which

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but she couldn't properly move in response to KKM thus KKM is far faster than dai kamaitachi no jutsu. Fast forward to Shippuden, Temari's strongest non collaborative attack is

You must be registered for see links

which is

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. Darui's laser circus was fast enough to blitz the Kin/Gin bros (

You must be registered for see links

)(

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) who are fast enough to

You must be registered for see links

who ought to be faster than the likes of Shikamaru and Chouj based on being a Kumo jounin specializing in sword-fighting.

1.) The very scan you post share the expression of the jutsu outputting a thunderous roar. Thats its output speed. The land scapes were blown away at the same point and time it end. At least Tayuya had enough time to talk before KKM hits the 100 yard mark[

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].

2.) Scan shows it has not traveled the same output speed then what has shown against Kakuzu's Futon. Based on Tayuya scan I showed above.

3.) Thats good for Raiton high speed>swift/fast.

4.) Irrelevant, he still had to anticipate the Futon before it was launched.

5.) Ok.

6.) Tayuya couldnt evade last time because it was away from her LoS. Part 2: Whats this suppose to mean? Does that mean that your conclusion ends up saying that laser circus=okamaitachi=sun shigure=kikisankaku> Atsugai in travel speed?

Therefore, KKM is far faster than any of Kakuzu's ninjutsu without a shadow of a doubt.

....

Not nearly as bad as the majority of what you claim in this thread.

Which is what

1.)According to you Kakuzu is a high level fuuton user but Temari isn't? What a joke! Temari was hyped to be able to

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. This is an exaggeration but the hype of being a high level fuuton user still stands nonetheless and it is much better than any of Kakuzu's hype in regards to offensive ability. Furthermore, Temari couldn't think of a fuuton user stronger than herself (

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) so she's obviously a high level fuuton user in her own right without even considering the collaborative KKM which is far stronger than any of her individual fuuton attacks.

2.)Naruto's wind element rasengan isn't anywhere near KKM in power based on KKM being a superior attack to collaborative wind cast net. No reason to believe either Kakuzu or base Naruto can output anywhere near as much power in a fuuton mask or wind rasengan as something done by a high level fuuton user + some others.

3.)Moreover, Temari would have information on base Naruto's fuuton prowess through Shikamaru so she's a superior fuuton user to base Naruto based on how she can't think of anyone with stronger fuuton attacks.

1. This was honestly a jab at FT for trying to downplay Kakuzu's Futon.

2. Na Dodai point made her withdraw her options[

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] and she admitted inferiority [

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]

3.

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. So you dont have a point and being superior to base Naruto's is baseless.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Now I know you are running out of arguments to make. You are concern by the damage done in the landscapes to testify the feats to mean nothing, despite me already jotting down 2 reasons why the manga disagree with your dumb reason to downplay feats. Despite what you say, Kishomoto made it manga fact that Kakuzu element reaches high level[

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]. Something never stated by Temari of reaching. 2.) By feats the logic of exchanged, his futon (changed nature) matched the power of Naruto's Futon (changed nature)[

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] making them dead equal in power. Which is once again superior then Temari Futon.

Lmao, this is all so beyond hysterical. I guess what we do now in 2016, is not look at and compare all feats. Fine, let's go by your impeccable "logic". Kakuzu>Temari in terms of elemental lethalness, simply because it was specifically stated that Kakuzu can use high level elemental jutsu, which was not specifically said for Temari. Joke. Kakuzu>Madara in Katon, because you know, it was never outright stated that he can use high level elemental jutsu. What outstanding reasoning we have here. Kakuzu stalemating this version of Naruto and Yamato was supposed to aid your already laughable assertions? Another joke. A) Naruto literally just learned elemental manipulation. B) That was a Fuuton Rasengan, which is obviously weaker than FRS. C) At that time, Naruto's FRS was incomplete, and at only

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. D) It was only up until the War-Arc that Naruto was stated to be a better Fuuton user than Temari [

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]-[

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], which was when Naruto actually mastered FRS.

So, as implied by the manga and the use of commom sense in tandem with knowledge on the manga - Temari>Kakuzu fight Naruto in Fuuton. Thus, using your very own logic - Temari>Kakuzu.

Desperately trying to make a point irrelevant so it wouldnt defy your logic and arguments. Sorry buddy not how it works. Cutting output different outcomes to by crush damage, stop defying logic. And read the manga, they made it clear that they did not put not one slight damage to Raikage's body[

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[<-Inb4 reading through the cracks of scans damaged of Raikage to invalidate the statement made] (and the fact that her futon was a combine team effort lmao). So you have no point and you need to stop frontin with this ad hom shit. Its played out.

Dude. Lmfao. Temari's form of Fuuton is more lethal in all aspects. Hidan doesn't possess any form of immediate healing close to Byakugou, and even you thankfully (and surprisingly) didn't contest the notion of Temari's Fuuton being far more successful on Hidan than Kakuzu's. So what are you even possibly trying to prove with this? Stating her Fuuton working better on healers says absolutely nothing. It works better on non-healers too. Why? Because it's flat out has more killing potential. The bottom line is, Atsugai isn't killing anyone with Hidan level durability (which isn't significant). It not possessing cutting priorities is a piss poor excuse, because if it actually carried enough wind pressure and killing potential, Hidan would of been flattened. Point, blank, period. A very similar attack in Hirudora obliterated a V3 Susano'o, and would of done the same to Hidan. Atsugai simply isn't as strong as you wish so incredibly hard to believe. So once again, irrelevant and doesn't aid your laughable points. Stop wasting my time.

Inb4 Ray Charles. Only you would trust an unofficial translation from Japanese to English over what is clear cut shown in the drawing. They made cracks in his Edo body, and the Edo body material was dispersing. That signifies some sort of damage. Not anything significant, but it was damage. You can't possibly deny it (Not surprised that you actually did), and I'm not going to waste my time here discussing your fantasy version of the manga. Moving on now. Yes, her Fuuton was combined with 2 others, but she was easily the most skilled, as stated, and obviously held the most contributions. Then we have the fact that she had an ace up her sleeve that she hadn't tried - a continuously faster KKM. So what was displayed, wasn't her strongest attack.

So, I'm still here... Really discussing who's attack is stronger between someone who can put at least some type of damage on the 3rd Raikage and someone who couldn't damage Hidan. Honestly, I blame myself.

Lmao has nothing to do with power gtfo with that bullshit. The context is clearly talking about jutsus at the same level as each other clashing. The one with that puts the most chakra wins. Im not playing with this game of you misusing context for your fittings of downplay. Stop fronting FT, manga made it clear that Kakuzu's Raiton is high level and was a reason it can cancel out an attack like Raikiri.

Here we go again. Please, read what I wrote more carefully, because I never denied the bold. In this instance, I was specifically talking about Gian and Raikiri clashing. Again, Raikiri penetrative power depends upon being thrusted. It doesn't work properly by Kakashi activating Raikiri and keeping his arm at a standstill. Gian cancelling out Raikiri (used in a defensive manner here) was solely due to being of the same element and chakra quantities, just as the DB stated. Furthermore, Gian is a stream of lightening. Thus, the chakra is distributed along the stream, very much unlike Raikiri. So the whole Gian=Rakiri thing is you reaching for the stars. And you're once again taking the statement of Kakuzu using high level elemental techniques and running miles upon miles with it. Okay, we get it, he uses elemental jutsu at a high level. That doesn't go to say that he is the only one who has achieved this, just because it wasn't specifically stated for everyone else. A Jounin tier Yamato is in this elemental discussion with Kakuzu, based on the stalemate. That really doesn't say a whole lot for Kakuzu, sorry guy.

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. Apparently, your clinging on the worst fan translation to try and make your point to make sense, despite far better translation out there that are better[

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]. No other context implied he try to killed Hidan, yet alone multiple times.

@Bold, Great so I would love to use this logic concerning Tameri's jutsu too. This works out perfect.

Don't see what you're possibly trying to prove with that scan. What Shikamaru did to Hidan is the equivalent to killing him. He was finished. We never seen or heard about him again. All the sudden the most commonly used source of the manga around here becomes me clinging to the worst translation, lmao. I'll request a Viz translation of those pages. I have no idea what you mean with the bold. Hidan has luckily never crossed paths with Temari.

Missed quoting and mis using scans/feats showed once again. And actually arguing that Temeri is superior character than Kakuzu is baffling.

Your continuous ironic accusations and fantasy version of the manga that you create in your head is whats actually baffling. But, whatever you say guy. Honestly, If you prefer just addressing Icelerate, that would be totally fine with me.

 

[ToshiZO]

Hidan doesn't possess any form of immediate healing close to Byakugou,

Hidan has a high speed regen of some kind. Possibly even better than Byakugou.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Hidan has a high speed regen of some kind. Possibly even better than Byakugou.

Stop. His healing capabilities are no where near Byakugou. 6 days and his neck wasn't fully healed from being stiched back on.

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[ToshiZO]

Stop. His healing capabilities are no where near Byakugou. 6 days and his neck wasn't fully healed from being stiched back on.

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First of all Hidan was able to move his neck around perfectly fine upon getting it reattached, how does that even make sense?

He literally breaks his spine and is moving just fine. Any internal injuries of his are almost healed so fast (I think, don't know what else is going on otherwise) its like they never even existed.

Spoiler

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Tsunade and Sakura would even take some time healing from getting a giant scythe and a rod going through their spine. In fact they wouldn't be able to heal unless they removed the object first, and probably would have trouble moving.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

First of all Hidan was able to move his neck around perfectly fine upon getting it reattached, how does that even make sense?

He literally breaks his spine and is moving just fine. Any internal injuries of his are almost healed so fast (I think, don't know what else is going on otherwise) its like they never even existed.

Spoiler

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Tsunade and Sakura would even take some time healing from getting a giant scythe and a rod going through their spine. In fact they wouldn't be able to heal unless they removed the object first, and probably would have trouble moving.

You can clearly see in the bottom left panel that the tissue and skin is stillvery noticeably scared. Byakugou heals everything within mere seconds. Kakuzu simply stiched his head backo on to his body. He could function without it healing properlu, because he is immortal. His internal organs being damaged doesn't affect him, for the very same reason. Very incorrect about Sakura and Tsunade, but I am on my phone and don't have time to search for all the scans as of now. Perhaps tomorrow.

 

[ToshiZO]

You can clearly see in the bottom left panel that the tissue and skin is stillvery noticeably scared. Byakugou heals everything within mere seconds. His internal organs being damaged doesn't affect him, he is immortal. Very incorrect about Sakura and Tsunade, but I am on my phone and don't have time to search for all the scans as of now. Perhaps tomorrow.

Im talking about his bones. That was an external injury that separated his neck from his body. Anything inside and he heals immediately.

A human body cannot stand up straight once the spine is broken. You can clearly see him stabbing right through his spine, and with zero drawbacks.

He also stabbed his

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, and Asuma was limping unable to use that leg while he was moving the same as before. His

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also got stabbed and he was moving perfectly fine.

This isn't simply about ignoring pain, or organs. Break a zombies spine he wont be able to stand. He is doing things that aren't possible.

 

[Icelerate]

Icelerate stop misquoting me. I have not once argued that Temari is or isnt able to solo them, nor stated she isnt a bad match up for the characters were discussing. I clearly pointed on the fact that you think Temari has a better chance then Kakuzu, using no logically reason at all (but downplaying feats). Thats the issue were addressing and nothing more. @Bold is where you wrong. Just because his Futon lacks the ability to cut doesnt change the fact that he has other jutsu that does via Gian. And an attack that would ruin byakugou duo whole move set and body via Futon+Katon combo.

I claimed Temari has a higher chance at soloing because of KKM although I failed to mention that Kakuzu would last longer due to his abilities. Gian is easy to dodge unlike KKM because Kamatari travels in an unpredictable fashion unlike gian which travels in a straight line. Not to mention KKM is essentially Kamatari continuously moving about swinging its scythe so dodging and reacting to one or a few attacks doesn't mean you can dodge its thousands of slashes while it encircles you. Please take a

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to see what I'm talking about in more detail.

I've already countered Kakuzu's entire arsenal

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, let alone Sakura and Tsunade together. Punching the ground to create a huge rupture of rock blocks the katon+fuuton combo which can barely burn into the ground.

It matters when you try to misquote my point. I brought her fighting style simply because we can use the same exact logic of Kakuzu using the same exact choice, if he thought deem appropriate for the match up.

Kakuzu doesn't have the same arsenal as Temari, so point is moot.

1.) The very scan you post share the expression of the jutsu outputting a thunderous roar. Thats its output speed. The land scapes were blown away at the same point and time it end. At least Tayuya had enough time to talk before KKM hits the 100 yard mark[

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].

Tayuya didn't talk, she mentally thought something and KKM had to travel a good distance. Once she heard the attack, she only had the time to think eh.. before getting killed. It's pretty obvious why KKM>>dai kamaitachi no jutsu in speed. The weasel ends up circling around a diameter of hundreds of meters before gravity can pull it down. Makes Haku's "

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" look weak. The same Haku who casually intercepts War Arc Kakashi (

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)(

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), let alone Early Shippuden Kakashi who intercepts raiton gian.

Anyhow going by your logic, Sasuke isn't a top tier speedster because he couldn't run back to the portal before

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. Or maybe he is and Sakura is almost top tier in reaction speed, but that would make your claims in Sasori VS Sakura and Kakuzu VS Sakura in favor of either Akatsuki null and void.

2.) Scan shows it has not traveled the same output speed then what has shown against Kakuzu's Futon. Based on Tayuya scan I showed above.

Just debunked that claim.

3.) Thats good for Raiton high speed>swift/fast.

High speed is the same as being swift or fast. Not to mention those types of statements don't necessarily imply equality or inequality, but feats wise, raiton gian is indeed far slower than KKM.

4.) Irrelevant, he still had to anticipate the Futon before it was launched.

Ok.

6.) Tayuya couldnt evade last time because it was away from her LoS. Part 2: Whats this suppose to mean? Does that mean that your conclusion ends up saying that laser circus=okamaitachi=sun shigure=kikisankaku> Atsugai in travel speed?

Prove to me that Tayuya could evade if it was in her LoS. You're ignoring the fact that Tayuya could hear it coming but couldn't complete her thought before getting killed.

Well I think laser circus is on par with raiton gian in travel speed. I can give you some proof if you want. Anyway, raiton gian is a faster attack than Atsugai so yes that's my conclusion. However, Atsugai is far harder to dodge due to AoE.

Which is what

Most of what me and FT quoted.

1. This was honestly a jab at FT for trying to downplay Kakuzu's Futon.

Nice attempt at saving face.

2. Na Dodai point made her withdraw her options[

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] and she admitted inferiority [

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]

She admit inferiority to KCM Naruto's FRS but given the fact that Temari thought her KKM may still have a chance after WCN failed implies KKM is a stronger attack.

3.

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. So you dont have a point and being superior to base Naruto's is baseless.

You're right, my bad.

As for the second statement, Temari's KKM being superior to 50% base Naruto FRS is not baseless considering how the damage KCM FRS did to the 3rd Raikage compared to a weaker attack than KKM isn't as large as the gap between KCM FRS to base 50% FRS.