Kakuzu vs Edo Hiruzen

[Curse Mark]

Obviously, Hiruzen will be too far to take advantage

How does kakuzu counter it?

 

[Zexion~]

How does kakuzu counter it?

Domu for every other element, Kakuzu's fuuton > raiton and since he can tank all the other elements he can send the others to attack Hiruzen directly, Hiruzen would also probably lose track of Kakuzu with the massive scale this battle will take so he could always capitalize with an ambush via EGF.

 

[Curse Mark]

Domu for every other element, Kakuzu's fuuton > raiton and since he can tank all the other elements he can send the others to attack Hiruzen directly, Hiruzen would also probably lose track of Kakuzu with the massive scale this battle will take so he could always capitalize with an ambush via EGF.

I wasn't asking how he'd beat Hiruzen, only counter Raiton.

Bold: I don't see his fuuton countering Hiruzen's raiton based purely on you saying that "fuuton>raiton"

Hiruzen doesn't even have to use the other elements

 

[Zexion~]

I wasn't asking how he'd beat Hiruzen, only counter Raiton.

Bold: I don't see his fuuton countering Hiruzen's raiton based purely on you saying that "fuuton>raiton"

Hiruzen doesn't even have to use the other elements

How do you not.... its a stream of Raiton while Kakuzu's fuuton is honestly one of if not the largest elemental jutsu in terms of AoE it covers.... and its not like there is any parameters behind the raiton so the only reason you have to base this off of is its size...

 

[Curse Mark]

How do you not.... its a stream of Raiton while Kakuzu's fuuton is honestly one of if not the largest elemental jutsu in terms of AoE it covers.... and its not like there is any parameters behind the raiton so the only reason you have to base this off of is its size...

Futon >Raiton

so atsugai> Kirin

 

[Zexion~]

Futon >Raiton

so atsugai> Kirin

Kirin wasn't raiton, it was pure lightning. It would never even touch it anyways :lol Hiruzen's is not even close to as fast, and again tell me why you are arguing that it can't negate it? There is literally nothing to base that off of besides size, which you clearly underestimated Atsugai's range as it can easily cover it.

 

[~Ethereal~]

So...who's the winner?

 

[Curse Mark]

Kirin wasn't raiton, it was pure lightning. It would never even touch it anyways :lol Hiruzen's is not even close to as fast, and again tell me why you are arguing that it can't negate it? There is literally nothing to base that off of besides size, which you clearly underestimated Atsugai's range as it can easily cover it.

Fair enough about Kirin.

Bold is complete speculation. You're literally saying baseless things.
Underlined is just foolish. Don't tell me what I've underestimated. I know Atsugai's range as I've seen you ramble on about it enough times.

I never argued anything, you did. I just asked you why.

 

[Zexion~]

Fair enough about Kirin.

Bold is complete speculation. You're literally saying baseless things.
Underlined is just foolish. Don't tell me what I've underestimated. I know Atsugai's range as I've seen you ramble on about it enough times.

I never argued anything, you did. I just asked you why.

I'm assuming because you haven't said anything, don't start an argument without resons to back up your claim.

Its not speculation, as Kirin was an actual lightning bolt and had lightning's speed meanwhile Hiruzen's were just as fast as all his other elemental attacks, unless you're going to tell me all of his elemental jutsu are faster than Kirin? If you know its range you shouldn't be saying completely false statements like "his raiton could overpower it".

 

[Curse Mark]

I'm assuming because you haven't said anything, don't start an argument without resons to back up your claim.

Its not speculation, as Kirin was an actual lightning bolt and had lightning's speed meanwhile Hiruzen's were just as fast as all his other elemental attacks, unless you're going to tell me all of his elemental jutsu are faster than Kirin? If you know its range you shouldn't be saying completely false statements like "his raiton could overpower it".

You know what they say about assuming?
Bold: Again, I never started an argument. I just asked why. Something that you don't really seem to get.

Holy shit what am I reading here? Gonna go ahead and cross out the irrelevant stuff.

I thought you were saying Hiruzen's raiton isn't as fast as Atsugai. That would be baseless. I'm not even gonna argue it's speed against Kirin as it has nothing to do with what i'm saying.

How does Atsugai's range have anything to do with it stopping the raiton? What you're arguing isn't really clear.

@Second bold. Hahahahaha you just used quotes on something I never even remotely said. This is gold.

'you shouldn't be saying completely false statements like...'

I never said it!!!


You shouldn't be putting words I never said into my mouth on a two page thread when we can literally read everything i've said so far in like 90 seconds :lol:

 

[Zexion~]

You know what they say about assuming?
Bold: Again, I never started an argument. I just asked why. Something that you don't really seem to get.

Holy shit what am I reading here? Gonna go ahead and cross out the irrelevant stuff.

I thought you were saying Hiruzen's raiton isn't as fast as Atsugai. That would be baseless. I'm not even gonna argue it's speed against Kirin as it has nothing to do with what i'm saying.

How does Atsugai's range have anything to do with it stopping the raiton? What you're arguing isn't really clear.

@Second bold. Hahahahaha you just used quotes on something I never even remotely said. This is gold.

'you shouldn't be saying completely false statements like...'

I never said it!!!


You shouldn't be putting words I never said into my mouth on a two page thread when we can literally read everything i've said so far in like 90 seconds :lol:

You go on about me assuming BUT YOU HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING. Leading me to try and assume why you're questioning my points. Also I never even mentioned atsugais speed which is pretty instant, its the growing of the wind that takes time so in terms of defensive purposes it would work fine.

I'm not getting into this insult match that you're trying to start here :lol just don't ask me questions without context, you asked me why I think the fuuton would halt the raiton not only once but multiple times and I gave you answers :lol as I said there is nothing to distinguish the two jutsu, nothing at all the sizes are relatively the same and there is nothing to distinguish power here. So all I was trying to do was get you to tell me why you wouldn't think that.

Then YOU brought up Kirin, then YOU started saying I have nothing to base "Hiruzen's raiton isn't as fast as Kirin on.".

Anyways the posts are on one page and you can't even remember what you said so i'll post your quotes here.

Bold: I don't see his fuuton countering Hiruzen's raiton based purely on you saying that "fuuton>raiton"

You said this, then continued to never once say anything about why you think it wouldn't counter it based on the common logic of the NV :lol

so atsugai> Kirin

Then a pointless analogy

Bold is complete speculation. You're literally saying baseless things.

THEN THIS IS WHAT YOU CLEARLY SAID WHEN I SAID " Hiruzen's raiton is not as fast", when we were clearly talking about Kirin no where did I mention Atsugai so your misunderstanding is entirely on you.


So yeah, please don't question my points without any context if you can't take the answers :lol

 

[makosheva7]

Kakuzu wins scenario 1 high diff. Hiruzen overpowers Kakuzu in scenario 2.

 

[Curse Mark]

You go on about me assuming BUT YOU HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING. Leading me to try and assume why you're questioning my points. Also I never even mentioned atsugais speed which is pretty instant, its the growing of the wind that takes time so in terms of defensive purposes it would work fine.

I don't need to have an opinion on the match to ask for your reasoning.

I'm not getting into this insult match that you're trying to start here :lol just don't ask me questions without context, you asked me why I think the fuuton would halt the raiton not only once but multiple times and I gave you answers :lol as I said there is nothing to distinguish the two jutsu, nothing at all the sizes are relatively the same and there is nothing to distinguish power here. So all I was trying to do was get you to tell me why you wouldn't think that.

If anyone is starting an insult match it's you my man. You were the one putting words in my mouth.
Again, I don't need to have an opinion on the match to ask for your reasoning.
I never said I thought it wouldn't.

Then YOU brought up Kirin, then YOU started saying I have nothing to base "Hiruzen's raiton isn't as fast as Kirin on.".

Anyways the posts are on one page and you can't even remember what you said so i'll post your quotes here.

Smh. I remember what I said. And again, like I already explained I thought you were talking about Atsugai's speed VS Kirin.
I made a mistake, like all humans do. I'm sure you've experienced similar things before.

You said this, then continued to never once say anything about why you think it wouldn't counter it based on the common logic of the NV :lol

I said based purely on the fact that raiton<futon.

Elemental advantage isn't the only factor in something like this.

Then a pointless analogy

Obviously. Which is why I conceded on that point.

Fair enough about Kirin.

THEN THIS IS WHAT YOU CLEARLY SAID WHEN I SAID " Hiruzen's raiton is not as fast", when we were clearly talking about Kirin no where did I mention Atsugai so your misunderstanding is entirely on you.

Again I already addressed this. I misread what you were saying.
Bold: Yeah one would assume that MY mistake would be on ME.
Which is why I said I made a mistake. But thanks for pointing that out, chief.

So yeah, please don't question my points without any context if you can't take the answers :lol

So yeah, I don't need to have an opinion what you're saying to question it.

 

[Claymantan]

Weirdest debate I've ever read

 

[Curse Mark]

Weirdest debate I've ever read

All i did was ask a question, i'm not debating or arguing anything.

 

[Claymantan]

All i did was ask a question, i'm not debating or arguing anything.

I wasn't making a serious commentary on the whole discussion, I pretty much agree with you xD

 

[Bogard]

Edo Hiruzen was mentioned to be one of the 4strongest edos when Kakuzu was mentioned to be weaker than Ginkaku
In terms of ninjutsu, skills, taijutsu and combat abilities, Hiruzen is decisively superior and his enma partner gives him a good defensive supporting move
He should take this fight
The only issue he may have could be stamina wise

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kakuzu was mentioned to be weaker than Ginkaku

Where?

 

[Curse Mark]

.

But Zex let's put this behind us and start fresh. I'm just curious about your reasoning.

So do you think Hiruzen's lightning stream and Atsugai will cancel each other out?
Based on AOE and elemental advantage?

Just trying to get what you're saying.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

But Zex let's put this behind us and start fresh. I'm just curious about your reasoning.

So do you think Hiruzen's lightning stream and Atsugai will cancel each other out?
Based on AOE and elemental advantage?

Just trying to get what you're saying.

Curse this should be obvious, honestly. There no discussion that the elements advantage, at the same level (WHICH THEY ARE), is going to win against an element at a disadvantage. Atsugai>Raiton based on manga. Saying otherwise needs evidence that the Raiton would win