[Gen] Training with Reborn

[Kai NB]

OOC: I can see how that can be frustrating. By the way, Lawliet got you good Gold-Sensei lol

"It's a wonder you haven't died already...it's quite mysterious in fact that I haven't tried to kill you yet." Jakai gave a heavy sigh at that remark. After hearing the rest of the information his sensei went on about, Jakai answered his next question. It's just as you say sensei. For one, even if 'I' tried, 'I' couldn't move my body because my voluntary motor movements would be stunted by the effects of the Genjutsu. My body wouldn't act as I would want it to, so I wouldn't be able to avoid them. Granted, the fact that I would notice my own body failing to follow what I'd want it to do before getting trapped would be a good signal of me realizing I was inside a Genjutsu.

 

[Reborn]

"I will cast six illusions on you, one upon each of your clones and two on you. Each technique has a distinct tell, something that is rather obvious and doesn't require complex analysis due to the basic nature of these techniques. Before you reverse the genjutsu you will explain to me what those tells are. "

Danjou gathers his chakra while looking at his student and each of the clones. He then makes three hand seals, each seal being executed with the briefest of pauses between them to indicate a separate technique being performed. Less than two seconds would transpire before all six illusions were cast.

The first clone would see Danjou's body fading away followed by a moderate sized tree sprouting up from behind the clone, assimilating him into the tree to bind him.

( Magen: Jubaku Satsu ) - Demonic Illusion: Tree Binding Death

Spoiler

Rank: B
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user makes five handseals, and appears to dissolve into a mist. Once they stealthily approach the target and get within short-range, the opponent feels completely immobilized, and believes they have been bound by a fast-growing tree and are unable to move. The user then appears as if they emerge from the tree to attack the target. In reality, the target is immobilized, allowing the user to strike or interrogate them.

The second clone would suddenly experience sudden slithering snakes beneath him, rapidly rising up and constricting his body tighter and tighter, causing a painful paralysis that also makes it difficult for him to breath.

Danjou speaks directly to the clone as well. "This technique is an exception to what I said earlier about having an easy tell. The reason why is related to a summoning technique, do you know what I'm referring too?"

( Genjutsu: Oshitsubusu Hebi Kubire ) - Illusion Technique: Crushing Snake Constriction

Spoiler

Rank: B
Type: Offensive, Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage points: 40
Description: The user puts the opponent into a genjutsu which has snakes appear beneath the opponent to constrict them and with the users command, they crush the opponent. In reality, the opponent is immobilized and takes damage due to the stress on his mind.

The third clone would see several purple flowers sprouting from the ground around him, paralyzing him only because the jutsu says so.

( Genjutsu: Hanaoka ) - Illusion Technique: Flower Hill

Spoiler

Rank: B
Type: Offensive, Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra cost: 20
Damage points: N/A
Description: The user summons up illusionary purple flowers from the ground in front of them, damaging enemies with a chance to paralyze them.
Note: Paralysis lasts one turn.

The fourth clone would see a giant flower bud appear around them suddenly from the neck down, preventing him from moving and would begin to glow before exploding causing the simulation of excruciating pain from explosion.

Danjou then turns his attention to the clone "Spoiler alert, that flower is going to explode and believe me, you'll feel it. However, after the explosion will the illusion be over?"


( Magen: Hanarasui ) - Demonic Illusion: Flower Head Death

Spoiler

Rank: B
Type: Offensive/Supplementary
Range: Short- Mid
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage points: 40 due to stress on the mind
Description: The user will trap the target within an illusion where the opponent appears to be trapped in a large flower bud which then explodes. The opponent is made to believe that an explosion actually occurred and collapses, believing himself to be injured. The resulting stress on his mind causes damage.

And finally you would begin to sink into the ground while seeing several butterflies appear followed by Danjou disappearing from your vision and vines sprouting up from the ground. As you sink into the ground, the vines bind your arms, preventing them from making any hand seals as you sink into the ground from the feet up. The butterflies approach you rather tranquilly as well

( Magen: Chō Shinka ) - Demonic Illusion: Butterfly Evolution

Spoiler

Rank: A
Type: Supplementary/Offensive
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 30
Damage Points: 60
Description: The user makes one handseal, placing the opponent in a genjutsu. The user then tosses a large number of explosive tags at the opponent. To the opponent, it looks as if they are countless butterflies. The opponent then believes they are sinking into the ground, in reality making them immobilized; this allows the user to place one final exploding tag on their forehead before detonating all the tags simultaneously

( Genjutsu: Ingemame Ketsugō Sakkaku ) - Illusion Technique String Bean Binding Illusion

Spoiler

Rank: B
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage points: N/A
Description: Similar to Illusion Technique: Tree Binding Death, the user will do the Dog → Hare → Snake → Ram hand seals and trigger an illusion where the user first disappears, while the target sees several bean vines growing from the ground around and beneath him. These vines bind the target body, lifting them into the air. Then a bean pod rises from the ground to reveal the user, ready to strike. In reality, the opponent is immobilized by the illusion, allowing the user to strike.

"Don't disappoint me boy..."

OOC:
Only three of the techniques require seals at all, ideally all these justu could be performed within two time frames by a specialist with one hand seal capabilities if we didn't have the rule to prevent hax speed casting shit.

Task 1: There are easy tells to pretty much all of the techniques but 1 or 2, explain them to me.

Task 2: There is a technique that isn't so easy due to the nature of a specific unconventional summoning jutsu (I hinted at it IC) explain to me why.

Task 3: Answer the question of whether or not the jutsu ends for the other jutsu "Flower Head Death" after the explosion and why it does or doesn't.


__________

 

[Kai NB]

1) The obvious tell for the first is that it creates a wooden tree, which would only be accessible to Hashirama, Yamato, Danzo, Madara, and Zetsu. Nobody else should have the KG, and it'd be clear to know. More than that, this technique has the user disappear, which is a common trademark for Gen.

2) The second one has a similar tell. Only people signed with the Snake Contract would be able to use this effectively. With anyone else, it'd be quite obvious that's not the case.

3) Well... The jutsu isn't clear. So I want to know if I can't feel the or smell the flowers. They say illusionary, so I guess I wouldn't be able to smell or feel them. Also... It's more plant Gen, so unless the user is a Wood Style user, pretty easy to tell.

4)This one is similar to the first because it also uses plants (e.g. Wood Release). In addition, the fact that it blows up would imply Blast Release is a part of it, but who would have Blast and Wood? The pain caused by the explosion wouldn't release me from the Gen even if I would have already deduced that it was a Gen, because it's just Mental stress. The mental stress created by a Gen isn't a viable release method. The only ones are Physical Pain, Chakra Surges, and Foreign Chakra entering the body. (This same thing was taught to me by you during the Riddler Event z.z Stupid Gen only battle z.z)

5) I see a few things with this one. You use 1 handseal and proceed to release what looks like a bajillion butterflies. Normally, I'd think Summoning, but there was no smoke. But, you could've been an Aburame, so there's a chance it could work. On top of that though, you manage to make me feel like I'm sinking, but that would imply earth release. Considering you only used 1 handseal, but there was two types of techniques going on at once, it would've been easy to tell.

6) Last one is just like the first, with similar handseals, the trademark disappearing and the user of Gen, Wood Release type stuff

I, uhh, then reverse the Gens (cause in this training, I still have Sharingan)

 

[Reborn]

We'll continue ooc since you've since changed your shit.

1) I'm inclined to have you use the latter method considering the nature of the way one disappears in this technique vs. the chances of somebody who does have this KG (don't forget about Zetsu either) and could very easily make a tree.

2) Unless you know the shinobi and their summoning contract in game, you don't have a way of knowing what summoning contract they have. Also, the Binding snake spell technique is a rather useful technique to deceive your opponent when using this technique. If you remember when Sasuke used the technique on Suigetsu and Juugo almost instantly without any indication of the normal traits of a summoning jutsu. This technique has the most potential of this set to be hidden well.

3) Again this would fall under somebody with wood or even flower ninjutsu capabilities. There are canon flower ninjutsu techniques that I believe are no longer restricted to wood release so this is a bit more difficult to discern as well. Contrary to Tree Binding death where you have another method of detection, I'd say the best method for revealing this technique would be to use the wood release defense but do so carefully. Again there are non-elemental flower ninjutsu that can be cast as well. Though the fact that this technique paralyzes you arbitrarily without any other indication could also be used as a sign.

4) This is a visual genjutsu since it creates the image of a flower, however, the technique ceases it's visual effects after the flower explodes and you're only left with the residual damage. If somebody possessed the Sharingan but did not break the technique before the latter half of it, I'd argue against their ability to use their dojutsu's perceptive abilities to peer through the jutsu.

5) You're overthinking this a bit and your method of saying one hand seal vs. two techniques is flawed. There are a melody of techniques, genjutsu and ninjutsu that don't utilize hand seals to get the desired effects and thus you'd find yourself with a metagame issue if you used that sort of defense. The sinking would likely be the best indication since sinking into the earth would ordinarily be properties of quicksand or some sort of swamp which the technique doesn't create, rather you just start sinking.

6) last one is the same as the first, yes.

In fact, here are some of the jutsu if you're curious.

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Hanarasui (Flower Head Death)

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Chō Shinka (Butterfly Evolution)

The other ones are also game based illusions, however, they lack physical images so it's harder to tell. To be honest, some of the genjutsu such as these need to be updated to account for the clear background change. Though for the time being they are as described. If ever a time comes when we see some of these techniques receive a background scene change, you could use those as very obvious tell.

 

[Kai NB]

Alright, I carefully read through and understood all the points you stated.

I'm guessing all that's left are the new canon techs?

 

[Reborn]

for this method, yes, the other methods you are still in need of.

( Genjutsu: Shibari ) - Illusionary Arts: Binding
Type: Supplementary
Rank: C - A
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 15 - 30
Damage: N/A
Description: A very simple yet powerful paralysis genjutsu. The user will cast an illusion which sole purpose is to restrict and paralyze he target. The technique can be cast on more than one opponent at a time, though with the cost of power. The stronger the user is in genjutsu determines how strong their technique is. Non-genjutsu specialists can only cast only use the C-ranked version of this technique and use it on up to two others making the hold D-rank for each individual person. Users with genjutsu as their secondary specialty can use the B-ranked version of this technique and cast the jutsu on a maximum of three people. Users with genjutsu as their primary specialty can use the A-ranked version of this technique and cast the technique on a maximum of three people. Members who specialize in genjutsu are immune to this technique being placed upon them on others with a lower skill level than them; i.e a users with a secondary specialty can't use this on a primary specialist, only those of equivalent rank or lower can be caught with this technique.

I made this one and you're officially the second person to go through the process of actually learning it. So feel free to ask any questions.

Tell me the advantages and drawbacks to this technique as written.

 

[Kai NB]

Advantages
It allows you to bind someone and restrict their movements. It's great for quickly preventing a technique to happen. Besides that, it can be cast on two people at once, with a maximum possibility of 3 (since a 3 v 3 groups is the max that can be in a battle anyways, that's not bad even for the no speciality user)

Disadvantages
It can only be used on people at your level or below, so if you're a non-specialist, this technique can only be used on other ones. Another issue, there's no real way of determining what a person specializes in, so unless you're a full specialist, you can't perform this technique without worry (unless you plan on Metagaming)



Basically, if you're a Gen specialist, this is a great tech that you can use on anyone without worry. If you're not, then it's still useful but could be pointless in most cases.

I have a question regarding the splitting of this tech to 3 people. I'm assuming it follows the standard so

1 B-Rank ---> 2 C-Ranks---> 4 D-Ranks
1 A-Rank ---> 2 B-Ranks---> 4 C-Ranks

So when it's used on 3 people, the Gen Ranks would be like a tiny bit stronger than C/D-Rank?

 

[Reborn]

A-rank split three ways is a strong C-rank per person.

What about Sharingan and Rinnegan users, how do you think this fairs against them?

 

[Kai NB]

A-rank split three ways is a strong C-rank per person.

What about Sharingan and Rinnegan users, how do you think this fairs against them?

Well, all Doujutsu users would be able to easily see they were affected by a Gen, due to the chakra flow. 3T Sharingan users would be able to passively get out of the B-Rank Gens no problem, so they'd only have to worry about Gen Specialists using this tech. Rinnegan users are still effected, because this is a regular Genjutsu, not a Visual Genjutsu.

I mean, unless you're a Primary Gen specialist, this is not gonna be that difficult for anyone to get out of. If you are, it is.

Since it's a paralysis type Gen, you can't really put a Gen on yourself that contradicts it. I mean, are you able to make a Gen that can affect someone's body movement? (Besides stopping their mobility)

You also can't use pain to get out of this either, since you're stuck. You can't perform a handseal to do Kai, so that's not an option either.

Basically, you'd have to use a surge to get out of this (Assuming you can't contradict paralysis with another Gen)

 

[Reborn]

know what, imma let somebody else tell you everything wrong with this.

 

[Kai NB]

know what, imma let somebody else tell you everything wrong with this.

You're my Gen sensei z.z

 

[Reborn]

You're my Gen sensei z.z

Indeed I am, your point?

 

[Mirai]

Well, all Doujutsu users would be able to easily see they were affected by a Gen, due to the chakra flow. 3T Sharingan users would be able to passively get out of the B-Rank Gens no problem, so they'd only have to worry about Gen Specialists using this tech. Rinnegan users are still effected, because this is a regular Genjutsu, not a Visual Genjutsu.

I mean, unless you're a Primary Gen specialist, this is not gonna be that difficult for anyone to get out of. If you are, it is.

Since it's a paralysis type Gen, you can't really put a Gen on yourself that contradicts it. I mean, are you able to make a Gen that can affect someone's body movement? (Besides stopping their mobility)

You also can't use pain to get out of this either, since you're stuck. You can't perform a handseal to do Kai, so that's not an option either.

Basically, you'd have to use a surge to get out of this (Assuming you can't contradict paralysis with another Gen)

I was sent here by Reborn(and curious request >_>) to answer your response a bit. Now you slightly contradicted yourself in a small portion of your explanation. Yes you are correct that Rinnegan and Sharingan uses would be effected as it’s not a visual illusion, but then you go to say a Sharingan can pierce through it passively which isn’t correct. Sharingan 3rd Tomoe can pierce up to B-rank Visual Illusions, thus making this technique unaffected by the nature of the Sharingan. The reversal technique however would be the better choice for this.

Now concerning the Paralysis Illusion, actually you can because there is nothing really contradicting against it. Let’s say for example you used the A-ranked version of the technique, you can actually layer in a second technique into it as there is nothing “visible” so to speak. You can make an illusion copy of yourself and actually not contradict it because there is technically nothing to contradict in the actual technique. Its just a simple binding technique, not more or less which opens for a lot of useful combos with it. The same can be said when its used to be layered into another illusion, the binding is so “minimal” that you pretty much can use it in any illusion (that is within rank of course.

And lastly at those breaking methods, you forgot the method of layering a genjutsu onto yourself. You can also use pain if you have the right technique, let’s say the basic Earth Release Tehcnique. What makes you think a person who manages to identify the illusion won’t stab themselves with a thin pillar of rock aimed at their own legs? It’s suicidal but the option still exists and obviously also with the help of foreign partner if you have one on site.

Now with the contradiction which you’re asking about it really doesn’t matter in my eyes so as long as your illusion is able to overcome the technique and effectively “take control” of it. Yeah its actually a tad harder because you can’t simply contradict the Binding Genjutsu so easily full body surges is the best option to use in this case if you lack custom Kai Techniques or Illusions designed to overtake enemy illusions such Lili’s Surreal Palm Techniques etc.

Just was asked to post my thought here ._. toddles until needed again.

 

[Kai NB]

Indeed I am, your point?

My point is that it should fall under your responsibility as my Sensei in this field to correct my mistakes and teach me how to properly understand and utilize this area of Jutsu.

So please, explain to me what was my mistake in my explanation that you wished to have someone else explain


EDIT: Thank you

With all that now clarified, I understand my mistake. What's the next part? I can get it right

 

[Reborn]

I was sent here by Reborn(and curious request >_>) to answer your response a bit. Now you slightly contradicted yourself in a small portion of your explanation. Yes you are correct that Rinnegan and Sharingan uses would be effected as it’s not a visual illusion, but then you go to say a Sharingan can pierce through it passively which isn’t correct. Sharingan 3rd Tomoe can pierce up to B-rank Visual Illusions, thus making this technique unaffected by the nature of the Sharingan. The reversal technique however would be the better choice for this.

Now concerning the Paralysis Illusion, actually you can because there is nothing really contradicting against it. Let’s say for example you used the A-ranked version of the technique, you can actually layer in a second technique into it as there is nothing “visible” so to speak. You can make an illusion copy of yourself and actually not contradict it because there is technically nothing to contradict in the actual technique. Its just a simple binding technique, not more or less which opens for a lot of useful combos with it. The same can be said when its used to be layered into another illusion, the binding is so “minimal” that you pretty much can use it in any illusion (that is within rank of course.

And lastly at those breaking methods, you forgot the method of layering a genjutsu onto yourself. You can also use pain if you have the right technique, let’s say the basic Earth Release Tehcnique. What makes you think a person who manages to identify the illusion won’t stab themselves with a thin pillar of rock aimed at their own legs? It’s suicidal but the option still exists and obviously also with the help of foreign partner if you have one on site.

Now with the contradiction which you’re asking about it really doesn’t matter in my eyes so as long as your illusion is able to overcome the technique and effectively “take control” of it. Yeah its actually a tad harder because you can’t simply contradict the Binding Genjutsu so easily full body surges is the best option to use in this case if you lack custom Kai Techniques or Illusions designed to overtake enemy illusions such Lili’s Surreal Palm Techniques etc.

Just was asked to post my thought here ._. toddles until needed again.

Already out here lying. You wanted to post and I allowed you to indulge telling you I'd praise you if you were right.

Speaking of, you get 3/4 of a cookie

 

[Kai NB]

Lmfao did you really just ignore ian like that?

He posted as I was posting. Also, reported for spamming another's training thread

Already out here lying. You wanted to post and I allowed you to indulge telling you I'd praise you if you were right.

Speaking of, you get 3/4 of a cookie

Quite right z.z

So what's up next?

 

[Mirai]

My point is that it should fall under your responsibility as my Sensei in this field to correct my mistakes and teach me how to properly understand and utilize this area of Jutsu.

So please, explain to me what was my mistake in my explanation that you wished to have someone else explain


EDIT: Thank you

With all that now clarified, I understand my mistake. What's the next part? I can get it right

Np

Already out here lying. You wanted to post and I allowed you to indulge telling you I'd praise you if you were right.

Speaking of, you get 3/4 of a cookie

<_< >_> *takes cookie and leaves* Will post again if needed later on

 

[Reborn]

Pick another method to learn

 

[Kai NB]

We've done paralysis and restriction genjutsu and deception illusions right?

I'll go with concealment next, and then finish up with hypnotic illusions.

 

[Reborn]

We've only done one fam