Nagato isn't insane

[Deadmed]

Someone posted something really legit in another thread, Nagato's ideals are the same as americas. How did we end world war 2? We dropped bombs, effectively scaring the shit out of Japan and everyone else and ending the war. In fact Nagato's version makes even more sense, as while American ran the risk of having its technology used against it, Nagato would have been in complete control of his super weapon, people would have no choice but to behave you would have no terrorist groups trying to **** up the peace like we have today. Nagato just needed to sit back and if people started fighting he bomb the **** out of them until the realize oh shit whats the point of fighting if there's no winners because Nagato will always step in and "win". Nagato had the answer.

If you say Nagato was evil, unreasonable, and insane, how do you justify us bombing Hirashima and Nagasaki to end the fighting?

 

[TenseiganFTW]

I don't justify U.S.A
Nagato was a EMO.
bye bye

 

[FreakensteinAG]

Yeah, and in WW1 we signed an armistice, the real way to end wars. Plus, it wasn't America's bombing of Japan that effectively ended WW2. All that did was cripple and demoralize Japan's military and self-pronounced God Hirohito. What ended WW2? An armistice.

 

[Koinzell]

sasukes idea is still better. But nagato had a good idea.

 

[Claymantan]

Someone posted something really legit in another thread, Nagato's ideals are the same as americas. How did we end world war 2? We dropped bombs, effectively scaring the shit out of Japan and everyone else and ending the war. In fact Nagato's version makes even more sense, as while American ran the risk of having its technology used against it, Nagato would have been in complete control of his super weapon, people would have no choice but to behave you would have no terrorist groups trying to **** up the peace like we have today. Nagato just needed to sit back and if people started fighting he bomb the **** out of them until the realize oh shit whats the point of fighting if there's no winners because Nagato will always step in and "win". Nagato had the answer.

If you say Nagato was evil, unreasonable, and insane, how do you justify us bombing Hirashima and Nagasaki to end the fighting?

Again, Nagato's ideals are not the same as Americas. He's the leader of a terrorist cell looking to get his hands on nukes of other countries in order to commit acts of terrorism to terrorize the other countries into behaving in a way which aligns with his goals.

The modern day United States is not using deterrence as its primary diplomatic policy. It's using neoliberalism/soft power.

Nagato: War exists as a concept in general, therefore I will kill to prevent it.

WW2: War IS HAPPENING, we need to stop it RIGHT NOW

Today: Jesus nuclear deterrence was a terrible idea what do we do with all these nukes also dear god please don't let more people get their hands on these

 

[Deadmed]

I don't justify U.S.A
Nagato was a EMO.
bye bye

Emos cry because their parents wont give them money to go to the mall, Nagato starved, saw hundreds of people get killed including his family and best friend, and had his entire village humiliated. Plus he did everything for selfless reasons, emos are full of self pity while Nagato just wanted to end wars. big difference

 

[Angelic.]

Doesn't stop crazies

 

[FreakensteinAG]

Emos cry because their parents wont give them money to go to the mall, Nagato starved, saw hundreds of people get killed including his family and best friend, and had his entire village humiliated. Plus he did everything for selfless reasons, emos are full of self pity while Nagato just wanted to end wars. big difference

So, he's essentially the same as Timothy McVeigh, gotcha.

 

[Deadmed]

Again, Nagato's ideals are not the same as Americas. He's the leader of a terrorist cell looking to get his hands on nukes of other countries in order to commit acts of terrorism to terrorize the other countries into behaving in a way which aligns with his goals.

The modern day United States is not using deterrence as its primary diplomatic policy. It's using neoliberalism/soft power.

Nagato: War exists as a concept in general, therefore I will kill to prevent it.

WW2: War IS HAPPENING, we need to stop it RIGHT NOW

Today: Jesus nuclear deterrence was a terrible idea what do we do with all these nukes also dear god please don't let more people get their hands on these

Nagato was only going to use his weapon to end war if it broke out, if there was peace he wouldn't do anything obviously. It is well established that the world which he lived it was always in conflict and he saw it all first hand. There is no difference between the concept behind the atom bomb and Nagato's plans, whether or not he's stealing the weapons or creating them is beside the point. If people are killing themselves in total war anyway, and that's apparently justified, then why does it make Nagato a bad person for dropping a bomb to end the conflict? You can't say it's different because it isn't, using a super weapon to end war is exactly what we did. Even if there was more politics afterward, that doesn't change anything. America has vowed to not use nukes now but we still did to help end WW2, and it worked.

 

[The Necromancer]

Yeah, and in WW1 we signed an armistice, the real way to end wars. Plus, it wasn't America's bombing of Japan that effectively ended WW2. All that did was cripple and demoralize Japan's military and self-pronounced God Hirohito. What ended WW2? An armistice.

Are you saying a piece of paper is all that keeps the bad people from being bad, and the good people friendly?

 

[FreakensteinAG]

Are you saying a piece of paper is all that keeps the bad people from being bad, and the good people friendly?

Course not, I'm saying the armistice is what officially ended WW2, not the bombing of Japan. An armistice is just a flimsy promise to not continue to fight under the same circumstances.

 

[The Necromancer]

Course not, I'm saying the armistice is what officially ended WW2, not the bombing of Japan.

And what allows an armistice, or any law ever created to be effective? Physical might, and the knowledge that breaking these treaties would result in further physical might.

There's a reason why an armistice is only put into effect when one side has lost the power to fight back.

 

[Deadmed]

Course not, I'm saying the armistice is what officially ended WW2, not the bombing of Japan.

It doesn't matter though, the bombing of japan greatly contributed to the ending of the war, and that's basically what Nagato was going to do to the shinobi world if world war erupted. Just because Nagato is one person and america is a country doesn't mean jack shit.

 

[Claymantan]

Nagato was only going to use his weapon to end war if it broke out, if there was peace he wouldn't do anything obviously. It is well established that the world which he lived it was always in conflict and he saw it all first hand. There is no difference between the concept behind the atom bomb and Nagato's plans, whether or not he's stealing the weapons or creating them is beside the point.

He was gathering the Bijuu to do[/I ]it. Plus there was that whole thing where he just blew up Konoha. Just, you know, as a move.

At the time he was actually killing people to accomplish his goal, there wasn't a war going on. Nagato was the war.

Nagato was also effectively kidnapping and assassinating jinchuruki, who in a lot of cases are diplomatic figures for the different countries. Nagato himself, like the rest of Akatsuki, represents no specific nation, but a rogue organization. His actions aren't actions of a state, but actions of an illegitimate force.

Again, he's a terrorist.

People forget how violent Nagato's actions really were because Kishi had him revive everybody (except all those dead Jinchus) at the last minute. It wasn't just an ideology of peace, it was an ideology of violence.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah, and in WW1 we signed an armistice, the real way to end wars. Plus, it wasn't America's bombing of Japan that effectively ended WW2. All that did was cripple and demoralize Japan's military and self-pronounced God Hirohito. What ended WW2? An armistice.

Wasn't it the Japanese surrender that ended the war? Did they not surrender because of the bombings? So yeah, the bombings prompted the armistice that ended the war.

Arguing that the bombings didn't end the war, the armistice did, is like saying "You didn't die because you were shot. You were shot and you died from the bleeding." It's technical semantics that doesn't do anything in the long run.

 

[The Necromancer]

He was gathering the Bijuu to doit. Plus there was that whole thing where he just blew up Konoha. Just, you know, as a move.

At the time he was actually killing people to accomplish his goal, there wasn't a war going on. Nagato was the war.

Nagato was also effectively kidnapping and assassinating jinchuruki, who in a lot of cases are diplomatic figures for the different countries.

Again, he's a terrorist.

People forget how violent Nagato's actions really were because Kishi had him revive everybody at the last minute. It wasn't just an ideology of peace, it was an ideology of violence.

1. Nagato was still a biased person. That is a flaw with his character, not his plan.
2. It was far from a time of peace. Konoha was being invaded or attacked constantly.
3. Multiple other nations used Akatsuki to increase their own power. They certainly weren't using a mercenary group for peace.

Nagato's actions were questionable, but his end goal was worthy.

Wasn't it the Japanese surrender that ended the war? Did they not surrender because of the bombings? So yeah, the bombings prompted the armistice that ended the war.

Arguing that the bombings didn't end the war, the armistice did, is like saying "You didn't die because you were shot. You were shot and you died from the bleeding." It's technical semantics that doesn't do anything in the long run.

This.

The Pearl Harbor attacks solidified America's presence in WW2, which in turn decimated Japan's capacity to support the war. Nuking Japan was the catalyst for the end of the war.

 

[Deadmed]

He was gathering the Bijuu to doit. Plus there was that whole thing where he just blew up Konoha. Just, you know, as a move.

At the time he was actually killing people to accomplish his goal, there wasn't a war going on. Nagato was the war.

Nagato was also effectively kidnapping and assassinating jinchuruki, who in a lot of cases are diplomatic figures for the different countries.

Again, he's a terrorist.

People forget how violent Nagato's actions really were because Kishi had him revive everybody at the last minute. It wasn't just an ideology of peace, it was an ideology of violence.

yeah and we carpet bombed towns of innocent people during the war in order to win. Hiroshima was full of innocent people and we bombed that to end the war. Nagato knew innocents needed to die in order to eventually achieve peace. There is no difference, even if he's technically considered a terrorist, his goals were not insane and the concept behind them was the same as Americas eventual role in ending WW2.

 

[FreakensteinAG]

Wasn't it the Japanese surrender that ended the war? Did they not surrender because of the bombings? So yeah, the bombings prompted the armistice that ended the war.

Arguing that the bombings didn't end the war, the armistice did, is like saying "You didn't die because you were shot. You were shot and you died from the bleeding." It's technical semantics that doesn't do anything in the long run.

It doesn't matter though, the bombing of japan greatly contributed to the ending of the war, and that's basically what Nagato was going to do to the shinobi world if world war erupted. Just because Nagato is one person and america is a country doesn't mean jack shit.

To both of you, without an armistice, the countries involved do not have a reason to stop fighting. Oftentimes leaders do not consider peace until they compose a treaty/armistice/what-have-you. More often than not, the armistice allows for compromise and a "be all end all". I guarantee you without the armistice there would still be fighting between the countries. To put this in a Naruto perspective, Nagato's attacks on the shinobi countries would just prolong the "Cycle of Hatred", true to the mannerisms of war in real life. You need a declaration of peace to (temporarily) halt fighting and attempt to promote peace between countries.

 

[Vanto]

Nagato wanted peace, but, like Madara and Obito's, his plan was a false peace, this one being built on terror and destruction. He'll cause the same suffering that was inflicted upon him, and in the end, it probably won't change a thing in the grand scheme of things.

Sure, total peace is a noble goal, but you can't achieve that by nuking someone and attempting to scare everyone into standing still. Because it would mean that Humanity can only be calmed down by holding a giant, loaded gun at it

 

[The Necromancer]

To both of you, without an armistice, the countries involved do not have a reason to stop fighting. More often than not, the armistice allows for compromise and a "be all end all". I guarantee you without the armistice there would still be fighting between the countries. To put this in a Naruto perspective, Nagato's attacks on the shinobi countries would just prolong the "Cycle of Hatred", true to the mannerisms of war in real life. You need a declaration of peace to (temporarily) halt fighting and attempt to promote peace between countries.

I'm not sure you know what an armistice is.

It's basically a piece of paper that says, tear down all of your warring capabilities, or we'll bomb you the **** out.

Don't act like anyone has ever been afraid of a piece of paper more than the army that enforces that paper.