THEORY: Danzo used KA on Hiruzen?

[KISSame]

I don't know if the time line works out exactly right, but I always though it was kind of weird how Sarutobi Hiruzen gave the thumbs up for the inhalation of the Uchiha clan. It seems more within his character to deal with such a conflict diplomatically.

Hashirama would have never done such a thing however Tobirama might have, Idk it's hard to say but Hashirama and Hiruzen were definitely portrayed as honorable men with a stong will of fire while Tobirama and Danzo seemed to be more interested in having absolute control over Konohagakure.

So am I crazy to believe that when there was a possibility of the Uchiha overthrowing the Leaf, Danzo decided to use Kotoamatsukami on Hiruzen and manipulate him into authorizing the massacre of the Uchiha clan to ensure the safety of the village?

What are your thoughts NB?​

 

[KISSame]

I apologize to the mods for accidentally putting this in VS section.. lets just say it's been a long night

 

[Yang release]

No. Fool.

 

[Troyg39]

I thought Hiruzen told Sasuke that he agreed to the massacre when the Hokages were revived by Oro

 

[Angelic.]

He was against it lol

 

[KISSame]

yeah but guyssss KA right? you don't know what's going on, he might have agreed to it but perhaps not willingly. I know it seems far-fetched but if everyone keeps saying how over powered KA is, well this would be a prime example of its.. OPness.

 

[UchiGOD]

He was against it. Hiruzen said he would like to talk with uchiha,but at the same night danzo gave lord itachi mission.so nope.

 

[Gerkak]

Lord Hiruzen can neutralize all MS jutsu Danzo wouldn't dare attempt it

 

[Kurama62]

As far as I remember, Sarutobi said that he himself ordered the annihilation of the Uchiha. He followed the advices of those two Koharu and Homura.
But sounds like a good theory, since Danzo possessed Shisuis Eye .

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

Danzo was schemin in the shadows, hence why he has Root under his thumb. Danzo Trump making Konoha great again.

 

[SenseiSama]

It's a good theory I think it's the case because no sane Kage would allow the annihilation of a clan when the goal is to be protectors of the villagers rather than the oppressors. I think even Tobirama wouldn't have allowed an extermination because one of his students was an Uchiha and he never saw them as a threat due to his lack of interest in controlling the bijuus like Akatsuki.

 

[Nick01]

He was against it. Hiruzen said he would like to talk with uchiha,but at the same night danzo gave lord itachi mission.so nope.

After that he proceeded to give Danzo a pat on the back. Smh

 

[~Ethereal~]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised, I just hate pushovers.

 

[YellowFang]

If Shisui had balls, he could have KA'd Danzo to find a peaceful solution with a coalition with Hokage...

 

[SenseiSama]

He was against it. Hiruzen said he would like to talk with uchiha,but at the same night danzo gave lord itachi mission.so nope.

Still doesn't change the fact the Hokage's orders > Danzo's, Hiruzen could've prevented the massacre if he gave orders to Itachi not to proceed with Danzo's plan but he didn't which is highly suspicious because he of all people should know a Kage's job is to make tough decisions even if it doesn't please your friends.

 

[KISSame]

It's a good theory I think it's the case because no sane Kage would allow the annihilation of a clan when the goal is to be protectors of the villagers rather than the oppressors

This is basically what led me to this and it also seems that Danzo does't mind him some sharingan. I mean he got himself an extremely powerful mangekyo but still thought it was absolutely necessary to have several more 3ts put into his arm? He just couldn't get enough man.

 

[Chie]

Well, everyone who replied with either "Hiruzen was against it" and "He gave the order" are ironically both partially right lol.

Hiruzen gave the order for Danzo to be in charge of Itachi's missions and the darker side of Konoha. So, in a way Danzo's orders are equivalent to Hiruzen's orders as the latter knew what type of person Danzo was and as a result let him handle the darker sides of the village- which Hiruzen was uncomfortable with dealing with himself.

In the manga, 13 yr old Itachi tells Hiruzen that the Uchiha are doing a coup. The response is pretty lackluster. He does say they could talk it out, but he never goes to talk to them. He is reluctant to go talk to the Uchiha if Koharu/Danzo/Homura disagree which they do until the end. Itachi kills the Uchiha Police Force with Obito killing the rest of the clan the night before the coup. Negotiation would never take place and Hiruzen was going to let things take their course.

However, with this being said- Itachi did tell the clan about negotiation in the novels multiple times. They thought it was a stupid idea as they found no way to trust the leadership and believed that even if a compromise was reached then they would be double-crossed later. The Uchiha had a poor view of Hiruzen, so even if the Hokage actually talked to them he would honestly get nowhere.

Hiruzen is thankful for the massacre as it prevented greater tragedy. I don't believe he was particularly sad about it- he more so regretted that it had to get to that point though. He blamed himself for giving Danzo too much leniency with the village is all. If he had been more strict w/ his colleagues years earlier, then the Uchiha would have trusted him and it would not have been needed. If he were under KA Ala Danzo, he'd have no regrets at all. That and the narrative would have made it clear by now since Kishimoto/SP love blaming all the bad things that happen in the village on Danzo.

Hashirama is a non-factor as he stated that even if his own child were to harm the village, he would have no hesitation in cutting them down. However, the Uchiha would never be a problem for Hashirama as a) He made sure things were fair when he had his reign and b) He's so strong that the clan would never take the chance at pulling something like that.

 

[KISSame]

Well, everyone who replied with either "Hiruzen was against it" and "He gave the order" are ironically both partially right lol.

Hiruzen gave the order for Danzo to be in charge of Itachi's missions and the darker side of Konoha. So, in a way Danzo's orders are equivalent to Hiruzen's orders as the latter knew what type of person Danzo was and as a result let him handle the darker sides of the village- which Hiruzen was uncomfortable with dealing with himself.

In the manga, 13 yr old Itachi tells Hiruzen that the Uchiha are doing a coup. The response is pretty lackluster. He does say they could talk it out, but he never goes to talk to them. He is reluctant to go talk to the Uchiha if Koharu/Danzo/Homura disagree which they do until the end. Itachi kills the Uchiha Police Force with Obito killing the rest of the clan the night before the coup. Negotiation would never take place and Hiruzen was going to let things take their course.

However, with this being said- Itachi did tell the clan about negotiation in the novels multiple times. They thought it was a stupid idea as they found no way to trust the leadership and believed that even if a compromise was reached then they would be double-crossed later. The Uchiha had a poor view of Hiruzen, so even if the Hokage actually talked to them he would honestly get nowhere.

Hiruzen is thankful for the massacre as it prevented greater tragedy. I don't believe he was particularly sad about it- he more so regretted that it had to get to that point though. He blamed himself for giving Danzo too much leniency with the village is all. If he had been more strict w/ his colleagues years earlier, then the Uchiha would have trusted him and it would not have been needed. If he were under KA Ala Danzo, he'd have no regrets at all. That and the narrative would have made it clear by now since Kishimoto/SP love blaming all the bad things that happen in the village on Danzo.

Hashirama is a non-factor as he stated that even if his own child were to harm the village, he would have no hesitation in cutting them down. However, the Uchiha would never be a problem for Hashirama as a) He made sure things were fair when he had his reign and b) He's so strong that the clan would never take the chance at pulling something like that.

Nice response, maybe I just had too much faith in old Hiruzen to believe that he would do such a thing though i guess this kind of failure in a way emphasizes how he inherited the same shortcomings (lack in judgement?) as the previous Kages. I guess All I can say is Kakashi probably should have stayed the 6th Hokage because lets face it, Naruto isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed..

 

[BlacLord™]

Tobirama wouldn't have done that. Comparing him to Danzo is an outright insult; Tobirama's interests weren't power, but protecting the village and its inhabitants. Contrary to Danzo, who was willing to stand by and let villagers die so he could gain power. I don't see what the Will of Fire has to do with anything either, since that was his and Hashirama's thing:

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Anyway, Hiruzen didn't agree to the massacre. Danzo met up with Itachi in secret and ordered the execution behind Saru's back.

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[KISSame]

Tobirama wouldn't have done that. Comparing him to Danzo is an outright insult; Tobirama's interests weren't power, but protecting the village and its inhabitants. Contrary to Danzo, who was willing to stand by and let villagers die so he could gain power. I don't see what the Will of Fire has to do with anything either, since that was his and Hashirama's thing:

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Anyway, Hiruzen didn't agree to the massacre. Danzo met up with Itachi in secret and ordered the execution behind Saru's back.

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Sorry if I dissed your fav I guess it was harsh of me to compare Tobirama and Danzo so directly. I stand corrected that Tobirama was a good man with a strong will of fire, perhaps even a little too strong for his own good! It's nice to some manga panels, it's really refreshing my memory on what transpired at this point in the series. I must say however I read those panels as.
Hiruzen doesn't want massacre
Danzo doesn't give a flying f**k so long as the village is all g
Danzo tries to manipulate Itachi saying err "Hiruzen will just kill ya's anyway"

I don't think Itachi would succumb to a cheap trick like that.