Finally no more DLC in SSB

[Dark Sonic]

I don't even know these last two characters. I guess it's good for another Fire Emblem but this Bayonetta looks too OP and doesn't even belong to a Nintendo-based game. Oh well.

What do you all think about this?

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I don't even know these last two characters. I guess it's good for another Fire Emblem but this Bayonetta looks too OP and doesn't even belong to a Nintendo-based game. Oh well.

What do you all think about this?

Se was voted in. Fans wanted her so she got here. That simple.

From a competitive standpoint she finna fck up the tier lists like ryu did. She has projectiles, can slow down time, insane recovery


BROKEN

 

[Gerkak]

Bayonetta would be better than cloud. Cloud's final smash is exactly like Ike's, there are too many clones in the game

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Bayonetta would be better than cloud. Cloud's final smash is exactly like Ike's, there are too many clones in the game

Except for the fact that anyone who even knows the character knows that omnislash has been cloud's finisher since the 1990's predating ike's... conception. Him having somthing else would be a slap in the face.

 

[Gerkak]

Except for the fact that anyone who even knows the character knows that omnislash has been cloud's finisher since the 1990's predating ike's... conception. Him having somthing else would be a slap in the face.

That's not the point, if Ike already has the move why include a character with a similar move set?

Cloud isn't a nintendo character so unlike mario and luigi who have similar moves he didn't even need to be included

My point has nothing to do with who came before the other.

 

[Fountain]

Honestly i'm a little bit disappointed in who was chosen as the final character. But it what it is, I guess.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

That's not the point, if Ike already has the move why include a character with a similar move set?

Cloud isn't a nintendo character so unlike mario and luigi who have similar moves he didn't even need to be included

My point has nothing to do with who came before the other.

Your supporting argument against clones is that cloud's final smash is like ike. I just disproved it by saying its the other way around. On top of that outside of final smash their moveset is very different.

You can't use the argument that he should of had something different from ike as a final smash if the character as a whole strives to stay true to the source material. As for his inclusion he's the poster boy for the whole jrpg genre and square enix. Just like how most of the other inclusions/ new characters are poster boy's for their series or genres.

Also. It was never stated that it had to be nintendo characters solely. Idk where that preconceived notion came from but with snake and sonic in brawl that idea should have been out the window a decade ago.

 

[Gerkak]

Your supporting argument against clones is that cloud's final smash is like ike. I just disproved it by saying its the other way around. On top of that outside of final smash their moveset is very different.

You can't use the argument that he should of had something different from ike as a final smash if the character as a whole strives to stay true to the source material. As for his inclusion he's the poster boy for the whole jrpg genre and square enix. Just like how most of the other inclusions/ new characters are poster boy's for their series or genres.

No my clone argument had nothing to do with who copied who but who is already in the game. Ike already has the final smash since cloud has something similar then he doesn't need to be included this is my point. I could say the same for dark pit and lucina who are no more than copies of pit and marth with minor differences(less differences then cloud has with ike admittedly)

I never used the argument that he should have had something different where did you get that from? My point is characters who share similar move sets with already existing characters don't need to be added, especially DLC non-Nintendo characters like Cloud.

I understand that he is the poster boy for his series but given how many characters already share moves in the game I don't think Cloud was needed, perhaps a character from a different series should have been used.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Bayonetta would be better than cloud. Cloud's final smash is exactly like Ike's, there are too many clones in the game

I was legit thinking that when I saw his trailer.

Honestly i'm a little bit disappointed in who was chosen as the final character. But it what it is, I guess.

I don't like seeing so many Non-Nintendo characters myself. Megaman is an exception since he has been rolling with Nintendo. Ryu is debatable. Sonic should have been just a Brawl character like Solid Snake but having him with Mario Megaman and Pacman it would fit in with clash of the mascots. Pacman is a good one since he is classic. After that, nah...

 

[BenjerminGaye]

No my clone argument had nothing to do with who copied who but who is already in the game. Ike already has the final smash since cloud has something similar then he doesn't need to be included this is my point. I could say the same for dark pit and lucina who are no more than copies of pit and marth with minor differences(less differences then cloud has with ike admittedly)

Like is said. Outside of final smash and them holding a sword they're nothing alike. Ike doesn't have projectiles. Ike doesn't have a limit break. Ike doesn't have multi hit moves.Etc Etc etc. You'd have a point with the lucina/marth and the pit/dank pit but like before you're failing to consider the source material. Dank pit is a literal clone of pit in the actual games. Lucaina copied and masqueraded as marth in the actual games. Therefore in order to stay true (something this game goes out of its way for) they have to be clones.

I never used the argument that he should have had something different where did you get that from? My point is characters who share similar move sets with already existing characters don't need to be added, especially DLC non-Nintendo characters like Cloud.

Its your supporting argument.
Yor main is this: characters who share similar move sets with already existing characters don't need to be added
Your support:Cloud's final smash is exactly like Ike's

My counter to your support : Its the same because cloud had it first
My counter to your main: Cloud is in cuz he represents square enix. Not just a series but an entire franchise

I understand that he is the poster boy for his series but given how many characters already share moves in the game I don't think Cloud was needed, perhaps a character from a different series should have been used.

i already countered this.

There was really no other option

Sega:sonic
Capcom: Megaman, ryu
Nintendo: mario
square: cloud
konami: snake

etc.

Who'd you want in sora?Goku?

 

[Tyris]

Mortal Kombat reigns supreme.

OT: ssb is all ****ed up and dlc is death

 

[Gerkak]

Like is said. Outside of final smash and them holding a sword they're nothing alike. Ike doesn't have projectiles. Ike doesn't have a limit break. Ike doesn't have multi hit moves.Etc Etc etc. You'd have a point with the lucina/marth and the pit/dank pit but like before you're failing to consider the source material. Dank pit is a literal clone of pit in the actual games. Lucaina copied and masqueraded as marth in the actual games. Therefore in order to stay true (something this game goes out of its way for) they have to be clones.

I understand the reasons why dark pit and lucina have similar moves to pit and marth but that doesn't mean they need to be added there are plenty of other fire emblem characters that could be used since marth, ike and roy(roy is already similar to marth as he is) have consistently appeared in SSB. As for the differences between cloud and Ike I already acknowledged them in my previous post but there are so many characters that nintendo could have added why does it have to be one that shares a smash move with an existing character. I would be fine with ike not being included and Cloud included in his place, what I don't like is two or more similar characters in a single installment.

Its your supporting argument.
Yor main is this: characters who share similar move sets with already existing characters don't need to be added
Your support:Cloud's final smash is exactly like Ike's

My counter to your support : Its the same because cloud had it first
My counter to your main: Cloud is in cuz he represents square enix. Not just a series but an entire franchise
i already countered this.

Yes I agree he represents square enix.

There was really no other option

Sega:sonic
Capcom: Megaman, ryu
Nintendo: mario
square: cloud
konami: snake

etc.

Who'd you want in sora?Goku?

Not any particular character per say, just characters that are different, I have no problems with Ryu for example ness on the other hand..

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I understand the reasons why dark pit and lucina have similar moves to pit and marth but that doesn't mean they need to be added there are plenty of other fire emblem characters that could be used since marth, ike and roy(roy is already similar to marth as he is) have consistently appeared in SSB. As for the differences between cloud and Ike I already acknowledged them in my previous post but there are so many characters that nintendo could have added why does it have to be one that shares a smash move with an existing character. I would be fine with ike not being included and Cloud included in his place, what I don't like is two or more similar characters in a single installment.

According to Nintendo their addition had no outcome on the game. Roy isn no longer a clone most of his animations are different. Idk why you have problems with cloud when more than 1 character share the cloud style final smash, greninja, robin, etc. Cloud is dlc. Therefore nobody is forcing him on you.

Yes I agree he represents square enix.

There was really no other option



Not any particular character per say, just characters that are different, I have no problems with Ryu for example ness on the other hand..

ness was in since day 1. His "clone" is dlc. You dont have to buy him.

 

[Gerkak]

According to Nintendo their addition had no outcome on the game. Roy isn no longer a clone most of his animations are different. Idk why you have problems with cloud when more than 1 character share the cloud style final smash, greninja, robin, etc. Cloud is dlc. Therefore nobody is forcing him on you.

You assume I have a problem with cloud when my previous post I said I wouldn't have a problem if Ike wasn't added and cloud was in his place, if I had had a problem with cloud I would not have made such a statement. I used cloud as an example in my first post I said there were too many clones in the game, that is plural I never thought that I had to list all the similar characters for you to get it. I know he is DLC even if he wasn't I don't have to select him, that isn't the point, the point is that is his final smash similar or not that is all. I have nothing against cloud as a character, nothing at all.

ness was in since day 1. His "clone" is dlc. You dont have to buy him.

Sorry I meant Lucas not Ness. And like I said I know I don't have to buy him but that doesn't have anything to do with this discussion

 

[BenjerminGaye]

You assume I have a problem with cloud when my previous post I said I wouldn't have a problem if Ike wasn't added and cloud was in his place, if I had had a problem with cloud I would not have made such a statement. I used cloud as an example in my first post I said there were too many clones in the game, that is plural I never thought that I had to list all the similar characters for you to get it. I know he is DLC even if he wasn't I don't have to select him, that isn't the point, the point is that is his final smash similar or not that is all. I have nothing against cloud as a character, nothing at all.





Sorry I meant Lucas not Ness. And like I said I know I don't have to buy him but that doesn't have anything to do with this discussion

so your problem is clones.

 

[Gerkak]

so your problem is clones.

Bingo

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Bingo

But your arguments to express these problems are crap.

 

[Gerkak]

But your arguments to express these problems are crap.

That's your view, you misinterpreted even what was clear. You assumed I had something against cloud when I clearly showed otherwise in my posts. You should have just read the posts carefully instead of thinking that I was attacking a character and defending it without considering any of the points.

It wasn't my posts that were "crap" you just didn't understand them since you already had in your head that I was attacking cloud and it blinded you to everything else

 

[BenjerminGaye]

That's your view, you misinterpreted even what was clear. You assumed I had something against cloud when I clearly showed otherwise in my posts. You should have just read the posts carefully instead of thinking that I was attacking a character and defending it without considering any of the points.

Not really:

Yor main is this: characters who share similar move sets with already existing characters don't need to be added

You brought up cloud cuz his final smash is similar to ike's
I shut that down. Proving that they only have 1 thing in common. Their final. (tbh its the equivalent of saying grenenja and ike are clones)
You brought up marth/lucina and pit/Darkpit
I explained that as well, their similarities being a result of their source material.

U kept on bringing up cloud so i figured you issue was with him.

U brought up lucas but hes under the same boat as marth and pit.

I mean the only legit clone problem would be bettwen C Falcon and Gannondorf two characters from completely different series having extremely similar moves. But you never mentioned that.U even hand waved mario and luigi having similar movesets despite being upset about the above. Thats bad debating.

It wasn't my posts that were "crap" you just didn't understand them since you already had in your head that I was attacking cloud and it blinded you to everything else

crap is a strong word. I apologize. But it was bad.

 

[Gerkak]

Not really:

Yor main is this: characters who share similar move sets with already existing characters don't need to be added

You brought up cloud cuz his final smash is similar to ike's
I shut that down. Proving that they only have 1 thing in common. Their final. (tbh its the equivalent of saying grenenja and ike are clones)
You brought up marth/lucina and pit/Darkpit
I explained that as well, their similarities being a result of their source material.

U kept on bringing up cloud so i figured you issue was with him.

U brought up lucas but hes under the same boat as marth and pit.

I mean the only legit clone problem would be bettwen C Falcon and Gannondorf two characters from completely different series having extremely similar moves. But you never mentioned that.U even hand waved mario and luigi having similar movesets despite being upset about the above. Thats bad debating.


crap is a strong word. I apologize. But it was bad.

Yes greninja's final smash is similar to ike's I agreed with that, I said that there was no need for similarities in move sets to exist. Greninja could have been given a different move if he can't then replace him with another pokemon there are so many pokemon to choose from

I already addressed darth pit and Lucina, darth pit was a skin in brawl and should have been kept as such no need to include him especially given the fact that palutena who is another character from the main series is in the game. If they wanted more they clould have just added hades or medusa. Lucina could have easily been replaced by other Fire emblem characters.

Like I said before I didn't think I needed to mention every single clone combo for you to get the message I thought by saying there are too many clones and given two examples(dark pit and lucina) that would be enough.

Luigi and mario are the main nintendo mascots and the game wouldn't be called smash bros. without them as in the title wouldn't even make sense

No need to apologize.