[Discussion] Is Christianity Moral...?

[Brother Numpsay]

Doesn't really give me a clear view on your opinion

The lost books mention in the Bible are secondary sources to prove the authors point. Even if it means quoting secular.

2 Timothy 3:16King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Romans 15:4King James Version (KJV)

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.


Can you explain these two verses for me as well?

These are clear statements. Dont know how I can make more of a commentary then what they have already addressed...

 

[ComplexCity]

The lost books mention in the Bible are secondary sources to prove the authors point. Even if it means quoting secular.




These are clear statements. Dont know how I can make more of a commentary then what they have already addressed...

So are we suppose to follow the lost books or....

And how our they secondary when Tim 3:16 puts them on equal grounding?

 

[Multiply]

What part of my question is stupid? I didn't ask you to be specific, I just asked for the origin, why is that so hard for you answer?

Of course I can't tell you the literal date and time that morals were created and I can't tell you when someone said something is right and something was wrong.

How can I tell you the origin? That question is unintelligible because of how specific the information is that you are requesting.

I also asked you in what part in the evolutionary cycle were we intelligible to distinguish right from wrong?

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• Morality is a form of behavior.The first challenge for biologists is characterizing morality in terms amenable to science. Abstract concepts of 'right' and 'wrong', or virtuous motives and good intentions, must be expressed in terms of what can be observed or measured. First, then, biologists address morality concretely as a form of behavior. As such, it fits in a context of other behaviors: foraging, mating and nesting, securing territory, play, grooming and other social interactions.• Non-human species may exhibit various stages in the evolution of morality.Conceptualizing morality as a form of behavior opens the possibility of observing it in other species. Indeed, if complex features evolve gradually, one might well expect to find stages of protomorality, incipient morality or various precursors in organisms besides humans. An important resource in understanding the evolution of humans and their culture, then, is comparative behavior. Even if the behavior is not strictly genetic, one may still find informative phylogenetic patterns or similarities based on common ancestry. Studies of primate behavior are potentially valuable. Transitions and intermediate stages may be more concretely envisioned or documented.

And again, I also ask. Based off your answer, who are we to say the morality of the Jihad is wrong?

When did I ever question anyone's form of morality? With different cultures one should expect different forms of right and wrong.

To also answer your question, I'm pretty sure Noah and Moses existed before these tribes, but then again what's the point in even bringing that up when you'll just shoot it down anyway? I tend not to bring such points (religious) into discussions on NB anymore as they will just be ignored.

Because it's fiction.

 

[ComplexCity]

and if you have read what im saying, youd see that i wasnt even talking about people being right or wrong, i was talking about the fact that jesus christ had a meaning of living like he did, threw love and peace/ im not even a christian lol. but the meaning of that story was indeed moral. and jesus never claimed to be a king or god thats a fact. but all the people of that time, who had power in gods name, were threatened, and it made the moral of the story, love and peace, be overlooked. but e seems to be confused about who jesus and god are. they are differnt. and Kings have been made into kings threw the pope, the pope got that right from god apparently.and i cant prove that the pope had the right to speak for god, the only ones who can confirm it are also men. not god. but this love, which is the moral of the story of jesus, that i can understand and prove, because everyone experiences love atleast once. i wonder what it is you guys even think im disagreeing or agreeing with, becaue my answers werent about that lol.

eventually it seemed to be about if the 4 gospels chosen were accurate, but maybe he fails to realize its not about those 4 being accurate, its about why the other 40 are being considered not accurate, man chose which to believe, and if they were willing to exile and execute certain gospel writers, and willing to accept pagan traditions to bring in converters than why should i trust that man got the bible right? or the gospels or the commandments? all i can trust is the moral of the story, which is to be peaceful and love eachother. its really kinda simple,

but i do believe the story of jesus is about love, religion is about worship and Christianity has been manipulated for power, those things are facts.

and the rest of what im saying cant be wrong cause its not like that either way i never claimed my word was cannon like so many of the christian leaders have, another fact.

John 10King James Version (KJV)

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.


Like I said, you aren't wrong as that is what Jesus preached, but that is not all Christians are suppose to do

 

[Brother Numpsay]

So are we suppose to follow the lost books or....

And how our they secondary when Tim 3:16 puts them on equal grounding?

Depends on the individual book. And some are lost (being too old to get), and at best quoted anyway.
And some are fakers that can be pre dated in AD's.

 

[ComplexCity]

How can I tell you the origin? That question is unintelligible because of how specific the information is that you are requesting.

You must be registered for see links

When did I ever question anyone's form of morality? With different cultures one should expect different forms of right and wrong.




Because it's fiction.

1. It's not unintelligible because I clearly said that you didn't have to be specific. Stop cherry picking


2. I don't see where you or what you quoted from this link answer my question. When did the transition occur? Did it happen before or after we fully evolved into the state we are now? Was it our previous branch of ancestors or the current build we are now? So many questions unanswered


3. So you believe the Jihad's morality

Jihad (English pronunciation: /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد jihād [dʒiˈhæːd]) is an Islamic term referring to the religious duty of Muslims to maintain the religion

Is correct?


You clearly state religion is a fairytale but yet you never questioned any one's morality.

Depends on the individual book. And some are lost (being too old to get), and at best quoted anyway.
And some are fakers that can be pre dated in AD's.

It does say in the bible, that if one questions the legitimacy of doctrine then do your research on it. Interesting perspective

 

[Multiply]

1. It's not unintelligible because I clearly said that you didn't have to be specific. Stop cherry picking

It's not cherry picking. The concept of morality likely predates humanity itself.

2. I don't see where you or what you quoted from this link answer my question. When did the transition occur? Did it happen before or after we fully evolved into the state we are now? Was it our previous branch of ancestors or the current build we are now? So many questions unanswered

Dude you're asking irrelevant questions. This has nothing to do with anything. How are you going to tell me morality originated in the bible but understand that morality existed centuries before the bible's creation?

3. So you believe the Jihad's morality

Jihad (English pronunciation: /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد jihād [dʒiˈhæːd]) is an Islamic term referring to the religious duty of Muslims to maintain the religion

Is correct? You clearly state religion is a fairytale but yet you never questioned any one's morality. Please stop contradicting yourself

It's because I accept that as a form of morality. It's not the form I subscribe to, but that doesn't make it any less of a moral code. Saying Christianity is a fairy tale doesn't mean a Christian does not have a moral code. It means their moral code could be different than mine. :lol

Remember when I said morals vary?

 

[ComplexCity]

It's not cherry picking. The concept of morality likely predates humanity itself.



Dude you're asking irrelevant questions. This has nothing to do with anything. How are you going to tell me morality originated in the bible but understand that morality existed centuries before the bible's creation?



It's because I accept that as a form of morality. It's not the form I subscribe to, but that doesn't make it any less of a moral code. Saying Christianity is a fairy tale doesn't mean a Christian does not have a moral code. It means their moral code could be different than mine. :lol

Remember when I said morals vary?

1. No answer, ok


2. Lol and this is why I don't even bother wasting my time on NB anymore. Not about to make this a hot thread for nothing. Clearly asked you a relevant question because since "I'm being too specific"I'm asking you to prove (you know that thing you liberals always ask for) when the transition was made since you don't seem to know where it originated. If you don't know, just say you don't know, don't call my question unintelligible and irrelevant when I'm asking you where morality originated if not the bible.


3. Says religion is a fairytale, but accepts the teaching and morals from the books to be moral. It's funny because whenever I see someone back there arguments with religious moralistic beliefs on their points in a debate, it's you who attacks or tries to disprove them. So you accept Extremist Jihads who kill in the name of Allah morality to be ok? Because as far as I'm concerned you are one of those peole who agree that if it doesn't harm anyone, then it is basically ok to do what you want (an assumption, but your post lead me to believe you are a liberal). I'm just trying to understand your logic now.

 

[Multiply]

1. No answer, ok

You're asking when morality first appeared in humans? Probably the very first human. The concept of morality, however, likely predates humanity itself among other animals with intelligence because morality is a behavior like mating or foraging.

First, then, biologists address morality concretely as a form of behavior. As such, it fits in a context of other behaviors: foraging, mating and nesting, securing territory, play, grooming and other social interactions.

http://www1.umn.edu/ships/evolutionofmorality/text.htm

2. Lol and this is why I don't even bother wasting my time on NB anymore. Not about to make this a hot thread for nothing. Clearly asked you a relevant question because since "I'm being too specific"I'm asking you to prove (you know that thing you liberals always ask for) when the transition was made since you don't seem to know where it originated. If you don't know, just say you don't know, don't call my question unintelligible and irrelevant when I'm asking you where morality originated if not the bible.

Okay now you're just trolling. If you're going to propose that morality began in the bible, then you're going to have to give me your proof of that. Otherwise, as I've stated several times, the concept of morality predates Christianity.

@Bold is still ridiculously idiotic.

3. Says religion is a fairytale, but accepts the teaching and morals from the books to be moral. It's funny because whenever I see someone back there arguments with moralistic beliefs on their points in a debate, it's you who attacks or tries to disprove them. So you accept Extremist Jihads who kill in the name of Allah morality to be ok? I'm just trying to understand your logic now.

Holy shit you're beyond reason. So tired of repeating myself. Just because I accept someone's moral code, doesn't mean I agree with their code. That simply means I accept it as a moral code. How can I not accept the morality of Jihadists that murder in the name of Allah if it happens? That's their moral code. That doesn't mean I agree with it.

Acceptance [FONT=MathJax_Main]≠[/FONT] Agreement

You can accept the fact that people are murdered everyday without agreeing with the morality of the murders.

You can accept the fact that I ate a burger with bacon in it yesterday without agreeing with the morality of me consuming pork.

Life is about perspective bud. That's why I keep repeating that morality varies.

 

[ComplexCity]

You're asking when morality first appeared in humans? Probably the very first human. The concept of morality, however, likely predates humanity itself among other animals with intelligence because morality is a behavior like mating or foraging.





Okay now you're just trolling. If you're going to propose that morality began in the bible, then you're going to have to give me your proof of that. Otherwise, as I've stated several times, the concept of morality predates Christianity.

@Bold is still ridiculously idiotic.



Holy shit you're beyond reason. So tired of repeating myself. Just because I accept someone's moral code, doesn't mean I agree with their code. That simply means I accept it as a moral code. How can I not accept the morality of Jihadists that murder in the name of Allah if it happens? That's their moral code. That doesn't mean I agree with it.

Acceptance [FONT=MathJax_Main]≠[/FONT] Agreement

You can accept the fact that people are murdered everyday without agreeing with the morality of the murders.

You can accept the fact that I ate a burger with bacon in it yesterday without agreeing with the morality of me consuming pork.

Life is about perspective bud. That's why I keep repeating that morality varies.

1. Probably is not good enough I need to see the same proof you're asking for. You made the claim that it predates Christianity not me


2. I'm trolling yet I asked a legitimate question lol. You're asking to prove that it's in the bible when it exist throughout the way we think and live. You're asking me to prove to the bible to someone who doesn't believe in the bible. I mean you and I both know that's nor going to happen for obvious reasons. The difference between you and I is I can show you were in the bible they originated. I'm still waiting for you to tell me when we made the cognitive jump between right and wrong in the evolutionary chain. I don't know why you keep quoting irrelevant stuff from your link when it doesn't answer my question


3. Has nothing to do with being unreasonable, you just don't explain yourself to well. It's funny because I am called a bigot because I don't agree with homosexual behavior because I don't think morally correct. So does that make you a bigot against the Jihad?


I already know morality was about perspective, you seem to have a hard time answering simple questions. Which was if you believed Jihad morality was right or wrong

 

[Wabbit]

Ok where do u find morals?

You have grown, you have seen the world. You feel. You can think. Somethings wrong with your brain if you cant make sense of what is right and wrong. It is not something you could find. It is something that comes within. Even person who has grown up eating morals from a book might one day end up questioning himself when reality crashes upon him. Perhaps one day you will have to use it if you ever be in such situation.

 

[PT1990]

That means u didnt read it

Its not that hard to find and its a preatty short book.

 

[Multiply]

1. Probably is not good enough I need to see the same proof you're asking for. You made the claim that it predates Christianity not me

It's simple because of societies with laws and rules before Christianity. They obviously contained moral codes and morality. Your response was from a work of fiction which you agreed I would not take seriously. So you've yet to even respond to my assertion with your own tangible(Not fiction) proof.

2. I'm trolling yet I asked a legitimate question lol. You're asking to prove that it's in the bible when it exist throughout the way we think and live. You're asking me to prove to the bible to someone who doesn't believe in the bible. I mean you and I both know that's nor going to happen for obvious reasons.

What does me believing in the bible have to do with saying morality predates it and Judaism. I'm not asking you to prove that morality is in the bible. I'm asking you how morality existed before Christianity itself. Before even Judaism.

If you're one of those people that believe everything that happened in the bible is 100% true, then that's cause for an entirely new debate that's off topic.

The difference between you and I is I can show you were in the bible they originated. I'm still waiting for you to tell me when we made the cognitive jump between right and wrong in the evolutionary chain. I don't know why you keep quoting irrelevant stuff from your link when it doesn't answer my question

It answers your question perfectly. Again you're asking a very vague question. Who is 'we'? Humans? I answered that. Human ancestors? I can't tell you that because they haven't found all of our ancestors. I can't tell you something as specific as that if we don't even have all of the pieces of the puzzle.

3. Has nothing to do with being unreasonable, you just don't explain yourself to well. It's funny because I am called a bigot because I don't agree with homosexual behavior because I don't think morally correct. So does that make you a bigot against the Jihad?

If they are murdering people for no other reason than the protection of their religion? Guess that makes me a bigot. Other than murdering, stealing, or just violence in general against others, I don't give a damn what people do. Believe what you want because it's your right.

I already know morality was about perspective, you seem to have a hard time answering simple questions. Which was if you believed Jihad morality was right or wrong

You not understanding my answers [FONT=MathJax_Main]≠ [/FONT]Me having a hard time answering your questions.

The problem is you keep asking me questions, I answer, and then you say you asked a different question.

So you accept Extremist Jihads who kill in the name of Allah morality to be ok?

This is exactly what you asked me. My response to that was just because I accept the moral code of someone else, doesn't mean I agree with it. Which means, no I don't agree with their murders, however I do accept their moral code as something that exists.

 

[ComplexCity]

It's simple because of societies with laws and rules before Christianity. They obviously contained moral codes and morality. Your response was from a work of fiction which you agreed I would not take seriously. So you've yet to even respond to my assertion with your own tangible(Not fiction) proof.

Guy asks me for tangible proof, but doesn't present any of his own. The irony is real. Don't get why I should try to explain something to someone who won't listen to what I have to say. That's like trying to teach someone how to play basketball who doesn't like sports or trying to convince someone that 9/11 was the USA's doing when they already believe that the so called terrorist did it. You speak on these societies that established morals but cannot tell the origin so why make the statement if you cannot back it up? All you did was provide me a link on the study of morality which doesn't tell of the origin

What does me believing in the bible have to do with saying morality predates it and Judaism. I'm not asking you to prove that morality is in the bible. I'm asking you how morality existed before Christianity itself. Before even Judaism.

If you're one of those people that believe everything that happened in the bible is 100% true, then that's cause for an entirely new debate that's off topic.

Once again, no point in explaining this when you just ignore what I posted. It's how people say that God is imaginary and yet to disprove as such. I'm asking you simply where morality originated and you can't even answer such a simple question. BTW Christians were the original Jews

It answers your question perfectly. Again you're asking a very vague question. Who is 'we'? Humans? I answered that. Human ancestors? I can't tell you that because they haven't found all of our ancestors. I can't tell you something as specific as that if we don't even have all of the pieces of the puzzle.

So why make the statement? What's so vague about when we found the intelligence to judge right from wrong? If evolution is the closest thing to a fact like so many claim it to be (even though it is still a theory) of how we came to be, with all that data present, how can't you answer such a simple question? If you don't know or can't answer just say I don't know like you did before. Don't make a claim, not back it up.

If they are murdering people for no other reason than the protection of their religion? Guess that makes me a bigot. Other than murdering, stealing, or just violence in general against others, I don't give a damn what people do. Believe what you want because it's your right.

If we go by societies standards of the use of the word bigot, yes you are.

You not understanding my answers [FONT=MathJax_Main]≠ [/FONT]Me having a hard time answering your questions.

The problem is you keep asking me questions, I answer, and then you say you asked a different question.

This is exactly what you asked me. My response to that was just because I accept the moral code of someone else, doesn't mean I agree with it. Which means, no I don't agree with their murders, however I do accept their moral code as something that exists.

Actually this was my original question

I asked for the origin, when did we gain the intelligence to say what is right and wrong? This statement is also flawed, by this logic, the morality that the Jihad follow is ok right?

Which right after, you did not answer and simply evaded the question. Then went on to say that I said something about your view on morality when I made no such claim. What I don't understand is how you are against murder but can accept the extremist Jihad morality of murdering in the name of Allah, makes no sense at all. That's like me saying I don't accept Mexican immigrants being in the US but gladly welcome Ukrainian immigrants

I also never made no such comparisons. You're making claims, not back them up with facts and evading questions that I have to ask you more than once. My questions are pretty clear

 

[LustyLover]

Just because you're ignorant to it, doesn't make it evil



OT: It's where morality originated

You're Christian, don't believe in some weird other sect? And do you believe in the literal interpretation of Hell? If you do, rationalize with secular reasoning how two women who have consensual *** together are worthy of eternal damnation. Kthx.

 

[ComplexCity]

You're Christian, don't believe in some weird other sect? And do you believe in the literal interpretation of Hell? If you do, rationalize with secular reasoning how two women who have consensual *** together are worthy of eternal damnation. Kthx.

You know the good thing about being human? Our views different and it doesn't make mine any more less valid or invalid. Morality differs from person to person right? What makes your morality any more valid then my own? Is there a central rule for morality? I can simply say that because sin is equal in God's eyes, Do you value the life of living things, if you do, do you eat cheeseburgers, steaks or anything with animal that were killed use for the source of food?

 

[LustyLover]

You know the good thing about being human? Our views different and it doesn't make mine any more less valid or invalid. Morality differs from person to person right? What makes your morality any more valid then my own? Is there a central rule for morality? I can simply say that because sin is equal in God's eyes, Do you value the life of living things, if you do, do you eat cheeseburgers, steaks or anything with animal that were killed use for the source of food?

LMAO nice job avoiding the question.

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[ComplexCity]

LMAO nice job avoiding the question.

You asked me to use secular reasoning but included hell in your question. Won't make since to answer a contradicted question since it's your spirit that goes to hell and not your physical body. But my reasoning may it be secular or not is in my post

 

[LustyLover]

You asked me to use secular reasoning but included hell in your question. Won't make since to answer a contradicted question since it's your spirit that goes to hell and not your physical body. But my reasoning may it be secular or not is in my post

L O L @ the thick Christian.

I'm asking you to use secular reasoning to answer my question. Whether or not my question is nonsecular is irrelevant as long as your answer is secular. Duh!

And you didn't answer anything. You literally said "it's my opinion," and that's it. You didn't explain it, rationalize it, back it up with any form of reasoning, nothing. Try again ;D

 

[ComplexCity]

L O L @ the thick Christian.

I'm asking you to use secular reasoning to answer my question. Whether or not my question is nonsecular is irrelevant as long as your answer is secular. Duh!

And you didn't answer anything. You literally said "it's my opinion," and that's it. You didn't explain it, rationalize it, back it up with any form of reasoning, nothing. Try again ;D

So you want me to use reasoning that has nothing to do with the so called fairytale belief system to explain to you why I feel two women who have *** with one another to go somewhere that is imaginary? While you're at it, do you want me to explain with secular reasoning how I feel humanity came to be whilst I don't believe in evolution? My reasoning will be secular does it make it wrong?