[Discussion] Is Christianity Moral...?

[PT1990]

Way more moral than islam, thats for sure.

 

[BanGinji]

This video is so heavily flawed...

You ever hear a stoner say something like super profound or come up with a really good deep question and then you think about it for like more than 5 mins and realize that it's complete nonsense?

That's essentially what this was... really profound points made that would be very hard to defend for someone that has little understanding of Jesus and christianity as a whole. It's clever because they are taking major points in religion but not delving deep enough into them because he'd trap himself if he did. What makes it clever is how simplistic it is. But, christianity (or any major religion for that matter) is not simple. People study this stuff for their entire lives and barely scratch the surface.

Jesus wasn't just some dude. He was more of a living metaphor. He's a symbol for man to reference and solidify the meaning of us being sinners. Jesus didn't die because God's just twisted, Jesus died so that man could look back and be thankful for him. As a martyr, the weight of his death is a humbling reminder from those henceforth to reflect on, and appreciate for both the selflessness of his actions and the mercy of God. Not only that but he didn't really "die" in the same way you or I would. Just as he wasn't "conceived" conventionally either. So to degrade his importance as just some guy is already a mistake. This is why it is nonsensical to put the "killing" of Jesus into question against the morality of the religion as a whole. No, it's not right that one man has to die to say a bunch of other people. But he's not just a man and it's not just some people. He is the son of God (and in some interpretations God himself) incarnate and the people he's saving is all of humanity foreverafter. The situation itself appears sketchy but it was most likely the most impactful and least destructive way for debt to be paid. It was the right level of dramatic.

The point well made that most people can be "bought off" or convinced to murder is evidence that we are born sinners. By nature, we are inherently corrupted. Though no one is born bad or "evil" we all have the capacity for it. The fact that they had the guy shoot Jesus is a bit of an irony because it further drives the christian point of the necessity for Jesus's death instead of showing a flaw in the morality of the religion. I think what they were trying to do is emphasize the irony that someone that claims to love Jesus would soon turn to kill him. For one, nobody really "loves" Jesus on a personal level, but what he represents and what he's done for mankind. They love his selflessness.

I don't think it's fair to judge an entire book with many writers and many different tales as moral or not as a whole. Clearly there are dark and gray areas. But the underlying theme in most religions (even Satanism) is that we should all love and accept each other and appreciate life. To that point we can say that yes, christianity is "moral." (if your definition of morality aligns with those concepts.)

 

[ethris]

Way more moral than islam, thats for sure.

actually Islam is considered the one of the most peaceful religions on earth, if not the most.

if you take the time to actually learn about islam, and realize everything u hear on tv us about radical Islamism, than ud see that Islam is very peaceful its humans who aren't being peaceful.

just like Christianity it has been manipulated and twisted to mans benefit. radical Islamism isnt the same thing as Islam. And theres also a difference between Muslim and radical Islamism.

And if you wanna compare how many people died because of Christianity, to how many people died from Islam. well lol Christianitys body count is much higher. even compared to radical Islamism its still way higher. Its Man who decides the sins they commit, not gods.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

it was written by man, but either way i was refering to jesus being the one who never asked to be worshipped, jesus's message was love. and to live peacefully like he does, but instead we just saw the miricle, ignored the message and worshiped

It was written by men inspired or first or second hand witnesses of God.

@Bold If that was true, Jesus would have never bother proving that he is equal footing to God(Father) as I post from his own mouth from witnesses (John 10). Bother to not show his disciples that he can metamorphosed, to show he isn't just a mere human (Matthew 17). Bother with the "Resurrection", which is the living proof itself (As God isn't going to Resurrect a blasphemer that claims he is in 1 essence with Him). Also Thomas (one of the disciples who didnt believe Jesus Ressurected and Jesus shows himself to prove it), declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him.

Its good to get Jesus message, but there's more to it then his teachings. In fact I dont think you got his message if all you got from him was "be a good person".

What makes it inaccurate?

Ill address when I get back. Though I feel like correcting your point of view here, isn't going to change how you see Christianity anyway.

 

[ethris]

It was written by men inspired or first or second hand witnesses of God.

@Bold If that was true, Jesus would have never bother proving that he is equal footing to God(Father) as I post from his own mouth from witnesses (John 10). Bother to not show his disciples that he can metamorphosed, to show he isn't just a mere human (Matthew 17). Bother with the "Resurrection", which is the living proof itself (As God isn't going to Resurrect a blasphemer that claims he is in 1 essence with Him). Also Thomas (one of the disciples who didnt believe Jesus Ressurected and Jesus shows himself to prove it), declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him.

Its good to get Jesus message, but there's more to it then his teachings. In fact I dont think you got his message if all you got from him was "be a good person".




Ill address when I get back. Though I feel like correcting your point of view here, isn't going to change how you see Christianity anyway.

man wrote the bible, man dictated what gospels were cannon, 40 plus gospels to pick from they cannonized 4. man contradicted them selves when there were so many claiming god told them to write a gospel, man made kings and secured kings because god told them they could. but clearly its all based on trust that were not being lied to. even if the first man to write for god was honest, no matter what passage you pulll out, man still wrote it, changed it ,translated it and twisted it many times. even if it started at god, in no way do we know exactly when and how it changed over time..and the actions of man and the words of countless gospels point towards the manipulation of gods word.

so on one hand we cant prove which of the 40 plus gospels and commandments are accurate

on the other hand, the story of jesus tells us we can live peacefully threw love, and this can be proved just by observing all the beauty, complexities and wonders of this existence, just by being happy, by being with your family, you can feel love, joy and wonder, and that proves Jesus's message was true, we can live in peace, and we can see proof of "god" all around us.

the story of Jesus was about the message, not the worship. man did the worshiping.

 

[Cornson]

pretty much all the moral stuff that jesus preaches (not all was moral) was from budda, so some of it is moral, but was is moral was borrowed from an actual peaceful religion.

 

[Sir Francis Drake]

man wrote the bible, man dictated what gospels were cannon, 40 plus gospels to pick from they cannonized 4. man contradicted them selves when there were so many claiming god told them to write a gospel, man made kings and secured kings because god told them they could. but clearly its all based on trust that were not being lied to. even if the first man to write for god was honest, no matter what passage you pulll out, man still wrote it, changed it ,translated it and twisted it many times. even if it started at god, in no way do we know exactly when and how it changed over time..and the actions of man and the words of countless gospels point towards the manipulation of gods word.

so on one hand we cant prove which of the 40 plus gospels and commandments are accurate

on the other hand, the story of jesus tells us we can live peacefully threw love, and this can be proved just by observing all the beauty, complexities and wonders of this existence, just by being happy, by being with your family, you can feel love, joy and wonder, and that proves Jesus's message was true, we can live in peace, and we can see proof of "god" all around us.

Jesus was about the message, not the worship. man did the worshiping.

I'm not seeing too much proof of god fam.

 

[ethris]

I'm not seeing too much proof of god fam.

sounds like a personal problem

 

[Funky Tiger]

christianity is moral and good, christians are the ones who **** shit up. same thing with islam, it is some muslims who are projecting the image of islam totally being a violent and immoral religion.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

man dictated what gospels were cannon,

Let me quote this:

"The New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John."

Its basically saying that the first 12 disciples had disciples, which had disciples, and so on and so forth that gathered up to determine what was canon. Because they got their source first hand. There was no dictation here, as their getting their story straight from Jesus's disciples.

40 plus gospels to pick from they cannonized 4.

They picked 4 because those were the accurate ones. The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit?

Only those 4 made sure you get the story of Jesus accurately. They didn't pick it for their own personal gain.

man contradicted them selves when there were so many claiming god told them to write a gospel,

Which is why the council was made to put the right stuff in the Bible.

man made kings and secured kings because god told them they could.

Ok...?

but clearly its all based on trust that were not being lied to. even if the first man to write for god was honest, no matter what passage you pulll out, man still wrote it, changed it ,translated it and twisted it many times. even if it started at god, in no way do we know exactly when and how it changed over time..and the actions of man and the words of countless gospels point towards the manipulation of gods word.

Do you have proof for that claim @Bold? (excluding the "translation" part obv as that irrelevant and nothing wrong with that)

so on one hand we cant prove which of the 40 plus gospels and commandments are accurate

Addressed above.

on the other hand, the story of jesus tells us we can live peacefully threw love, and this can be proved just by observing all the beauty, complexities and wonders of this existence, just by being happy, by being with your family, you can feel love, joy and wonder, and that proves Jesus's message was true, we can live in peace, and we can see proof of "god" all around us.

the story of Jesus was about the message, not the worship. man did the worshiping.

Your arguing that Jesus message has been tempered. How do you know Jesus message here hasn't been tempered by the way you think his teaching was?

The story of Jesus was more then his teaching. And he was more then just a mere men. Thats what the Bible presents to us. What sources show that me, or Christians, got it all wrong?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

What makes it inaccurate?

Never mine the "inaccuracy". As it was all part of the joke... The main point is at the end of the video.

@5:15- Do you support this point King Kunta? Why is the symbol, how it was used, a problem with the Christian faith? Yet alone their morals?

@5:20- What the heck? Since when Christianity support such as system? The "bad" people going scot-free, in context, is talking about spiritually not physically.

The video just takes Christian morals out of context here. What Jesus did was not to clear yourself from the physically plane committed but spiritual via to dwell with the Creator

(btw you stole my next plan, name change lol)

 

[PT1990]

actually Islam is considered the one of the most peaceful religions on earth, if not the most.

if you take the time to actually learn about islam, and realize everything u hear on tv us about radical Islamism, than ud see that Islam is very peaceful its humans who aren't being peaceful.

just like Christianity it has been manipulated and twisted to mans benefit. radical Islamism isnt the same thing as Islam. And theres also a difference between Muslim and radical Islamism.

And if you wanna compare how many people died because of Christianity, to how many people died from Islam. well lol Christianitys body count is much higher. even compared to radical Islamism its still way higher. Its Man who decides the sins they commit, not gods.

I did read Koran. I find nothing peaceful about it.

 

[ahmo]

Way more moral than islam, thats for sure.

Yah, stick that down your ass

 

[Wabbit]

Drawing morals from religion is like drinking soda when you are thirsty, you are supposed drink water. Brands make money while you fall for shiny ads and dehydrate yourself and loose minerals.

 

[KingHashirama]

- wasn't written by Jesus or any of the prophets (its followers pretend its the word of god still), so doesn't hold high credibility to if it was actuall Jesus's teachings or not.

- Christianity is constantly being changed to fit the "modern" era, so more people convert to it and so on. Instead of people getting out of it, and making their own paths, they simply choose to evolve the religion. so the Christianity of today =/= Christianity of the old.


- Morality, has nothing to do with the religion, it more likely has to do with the humanity. Religion pays an influential role in deciding a person's moral beliefs, but is it what makes their moral beliefs? no.



Is Christianity moral? Depends on the Christianity we are discussing. And which branch out of the 100 branches.

 

[ethris]

Let me quote this:

"The New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John."

Its basically saying that the first 12 disciples had disciples, which had disciples, and so on and so forth that gathered up to determine what was canon. Because they got their source first hand. There was no dictation here, as their getting their story straight from Jesus's disciples.



They picked 4 because those were the accurate ones. The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit?

Only those 4 made sure you get the story of Jesus accurately. They didn't pick it for their own personal gain.



Which is why the council was made to put the right stuff in the Bible.



Ok...?


Do you have proof for that claim @Bold? (excluding the "translation" part obv as that irrelevant and nothing wrong with that)



Addressed above.



Your arguing that Jesus message has been tempered. How do you know Jesus message here hasn't been tempered by the way you think his teaching was?

The story of Jesus was more then his teaching. And he was more then just a mere men. Thats what the Bible presents to us. What sources show that me, or Christians, got it all wrong?

a quote of man, you even say yourself man decided which ones were accruate.

they did not pick 4 for accuracy they picked the 4 that best suited there agenda,

a council of MAN decided which of gods words are most accurate? do you see the contradiction lol?

the proof is the 40 plus ignored gospels, and the hundreds of languages the bible comes it, and ever hear of a king james bible? why do you think that is famous? its because the king controversially shaped it to his views under the guise of being the a better english translated bible.

and you did not address proving which of the 40 gospels are accurate, a council of rich men did hundreds of years ago,

not a single god among them, and they picked the gospels that brought the most converters its a fact that Christianity even adopted pagan rituals like Christmas so that more pagans would convert, that is twisting gods words.

the message of jesus was overlooked, he simply wanted to show we can love and live in peace, but humans maade it about who he was, if hes god, what the jews think, what the Christians think, there was so much hearsay and conflict over it, it was a struggle for power, because these people who have been using gods name for power all of a sudden have a threat to their security and that threat was "gods son" appearing, they didnt wanna lose there power, they didnt care about his message, they only cared about keeping what they had so yea, alot of Christians missed the point of loveing and living in peace.

if you still cant seem to grasp the concept that man has been dishonest and greedy and twisted the message of love Jesus brought us, than i suggest you re read the first post i made on this thread, and than the second, third ect. repeat.

because i cant make my perspective much clearer than i have, not untill your willing to do some further research on your own. its clear you dont care enough to find out the real story of how the gospels were picked, or about all the man and women executed or exiled for there versions of the gospel. or about the ridiculously large group of people who have died in the name of god, but god didnt tell them to die for him. the pope and his cardinals, and the writers of the gospels told those people to die for him. The words of god was opinionated, than manipulated, thn translated, and than manipulated again.


its quite simple, you cant prove those words are straight from gods mouth and you
cant prove which of these words from century's of popes are real, but i can prove that the love jesus spoke of is real.

heres another way to explain it

Did god really speak to us? no way to know for sure.

Does love exist? Yes it does.

need another? well I have faith you can articulate that one your self

 

[PT1990]

Yah, stick that down your ass

Nope, Im not going to do that.

 

[Phact]

[video=youtube;35_JHx_OzA4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35_JHx_OzA4[/video]


Discuss...

You are immoral
stop posting things like this

 

[Phact]

I did read Koran. I find nothing peaceful about it.

That means u didnt read it

 

[Phact]

Drawing morals from religion is like drinking soda when you are thirsty, you are supposed drink water. Brands make money while you fall for shiny ads and dehydrate yourself and loose minerals.

Ok where do u find morals?