Lightened 7th Gate Gai vs KCSM Naruto

[Apêx1]

Then read and do yourself a damn favor smh.

- I don't not at all give a flying rat ass about the shockwave...If only you could truly read you'll see that I said the flame itself is unaffected. The shockwaves or whatever don't matter because his weight doesn't add to the power of the fire itself simply because it cannot, this would be relevant if I was speaking about the attack as a whole which combines both. Learn to read. Can you think or even read well? I have to repeat the same damn thing for you easily and yet you keep bring up irrelevance.

If only you used logic. As I have stated countless times now, the shockwave and the fire are dependant on one another. That goes to say the stronger the shockwave is the larger the fire will be, simply because there would've been more FORCE behind the punch and THUS more FRICTION and thus MORE fire. God damn some people are retarded.

- I can't...I just cannot. I used the basis of the flame being created from the physical technique and related to Hirudora's out put which doesn't require the same procedure as Asakaujaku(Punching so many times to create the flames from friction). I used the fact that the flames are unaffected even though it's an output of physicality. If Gai was heavy, he won't be able to create the flames..However, if he could create the flames, the power of the flames would be unaffected. Unless you want to show me more of how silly you are by suggesting the weight would affect the flames.

Yes, that's exactly what you did. And I pointed out that this works against your argument, because it does. The punch for Asa Kujaku is responsible for the shockwave and the fire, the punch for Hirudora is responsible for the shockwave whereas the hand seals would be responsible for the Tiger itself (most likely case). So once again, suggesting Hirudora is purely a hand seal makes absolutely no sense because;
1. That's not Taijutsu
2. VIZ outright STATED that it's a super punch.
3. All his techniques are some form of genuine Taijutsu, Hirudora shouldn't be different.

I can't believe this...You legit cannot read. So if Gai were to not use the hand seal, how would Hirudora be made. Plus go and ahead...I wonder how KidGamer must have felt haven't to repeat such easy procedures to you.

Sick reading comprehension skills fam. I did not say the hand seals are irrelevant, I said that for them to be the sole creator of the Hirudora is illogical given its never been mentioned. Yet the punch has. Yet you're here telling me there's no need for a punch. Sickening logic. Not sure what KG has needed to repeat for me, nor am I sure why you're even bringing his name up. Pretty sure if he had to repeat something twice for you you'd start crying and flaming like you always do though lmao.

Gai needs a hand seal to CREATE the punch and stop using "Fastest punch" when the mechanics behind the 2 are different. Fastest punch doesn't mean it works like ordinary punches....Especially when it's clearly differentiated.

Now tell me the other requirements needed? The hand seal is what's needed to carry the whole thing out. The databook you've brought doesn't go against what I have stated because the Manga has shown this repeatedly. Oh tell me why Gai decided to pause to use the hand seal against Madara while using repeated punches and kicks? The hand seal is needed for the fist powered by Air pressure which Gai's weight doesn't affect. I'm telling you this again, try examine your thinking capacity.

Hand seal and a (AND I QUOTE) "plain old super punch." That CLEARLY means a regular powerful punch given the 'plain old'. All other translations of the Japanese concurs with my interpretation as you can see here [

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][

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]. The punch is what focuses the air pressure on that single point, without the punch nothing happens. I didn't say it's a normal taijutsu punch, it's still a punch though, meaning his arms need to move for it to occur.

Is this guy serious? People don't mind thinking dumb things out before they spew it? Gai's arms were tied up against Madara so what he did was bring them together for the hand seal which was a necessity for the technique.

- You're going to tell how in the world Gai's weight affects the Air pressure of Hirudora...At least you're going to tell me how without using this incredibly dumb logic "Slight movement with his arm"(Christ :lol)

- I've explained to you that Hirudora is not an ordinary lunch so the function of ordinary punches do not apply to Hirudora since you guys always think its logical to apply these things even though they make no sense. Gai states in your viz scan that it's a super punch and not an ordinary one so at least you people can use your common sense. It's a punch that contain air pressure which drives the power of the attack. Somehow, you've gone as far to state weight affects this.

Everything here's addressed by the fact that the punch is a necessity as I have already mentioned. How he did the punch when restrained is irrelevant to the fact that the punch is a necessity. Without force behind the punch, there's no punch creating Hirudora (at anywhere near a comparable level).

Lmfao..this guy really killed me with his nonsensical arguments. Jesus. I need to make this known that Apex is arguing that Gai's weight affects the Air pressure in AT. lool.

Go right ahead, post in DoU for quick 1ns4n3 r34cti0nz!!11

What is being argued here..? Gai makes that specific hand sign, then thrusts his arms forward like a punch, which creates Hirudora. He doesn't just sit still with that handsign, and Hirudora just magically shoots out of his hand. That makes zero sense, given it's a taijutsu move.

Agreed, I can't believe people actually think the hand seals are pretty much the formation of an attack which stems from pure Taijutsu.

 

[Haizaki]

What is being argued here..? Gai makes that specific hand sign, then thrusts his arms forward like a punch, which creates Hirudora. He doesn't just sit still with that handsign, and Hirudora just magically shoots out of his hand. That makes zero sense, given it's a taijutsu move.

And what's this for..? Trying to support the notation that his weight somewhat increases the air pressure? Otherwise this isn't needed.

Though let's assume you're even supporting that or arguing that Gai's Hirudora would be affected by his weight...Your "Thrusting" argument is very wrong considering the fact that Madara's Mokutun had him completely tied up restricting him preventing that thrust movement like a punch. KidGamer's last post completely ridicules the Taijutsu excuse or even any argument regarding how AT is formed.

Gai tapped his fist and Hirudora was made straight after. Only God knows what how weight alters that. Matter of fact KidGamer completely deals with this as a whole given the fact that he showed the hand being pushed forward was only required to launch it which was why when he tapped his hand, AT was just created but didn't go rushing at Kisame till he pushed his hand forward....However, when he pushed it forward at Kisame, the Tiger went for Kisame. In other cases where he's shown with his hands towards the target right from the start, we see Hirudora rushing straight at them unlike when he tapped it and it stood still until it was directed against Kisame with his hand. Basically the pushing forward is only needed to launch the attack..if not, not sure why Gai tapped his hands(Which created it) and then pushed it forward again which had an obvious objective(Launching it).

@Apex, Sleep tight with your nonsense.

 

[KidGamer65]

Agreed, I can't believe people actually think the hand seals are pretty much the formation of an attack which stems from pure Taijutsu.

What I can't believe is that you can blatantly disregard Manga fact in favor of your own flawed opinion. Your whole argument is basically "since it's called a punch, Gai has to be the one doing the punching", which makes no sense if you just look at how Hirudora is formed each time.

-Hand sign and formation occur simultaneously.
-Launching and movement occur simultaneously.

Sometimes Gai can skip the tapping of his fist and just make the handsign and launch it.

Are you really going to sit here and tell me that Gai generated

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with physical strength while in

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state? I hope not.

How he did the punch when restrained is irrelevant to the fact that the punch is a necessity.

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It's amusing that you talk about what is and what isn't Taijutsu, even though regular punches don't need the user to make a jutsu specific handsign (the presence of a hand sign alone isn't normal for Taijutsu) that causes the tips of two of the user's fingers to glow. :lol

 

[NarutoX28]

I'm not sure what there is to argue.

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The formation of the seal as shown here forms and condenses the air pressure of Hirudora.

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Thrusting his arms actually launches Hirudora as shown with these 2 panels.

 

[Haizaki]

Right, the arguments I'm reading here are just amusing at this point.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

I don't know how weight has anything to do with anything I posted. I simply don't agree with the notion that Gai creates that specific hand seal, and then Hirudora shoots out of his hand with zero movement.

First of all, we know that Gai had to of activated the 7th gate straight from base form in order to perform Hirudora. By doing so, he also opens the 2nd gate, which temporarily rejuvenates the body. With the boost of energy from the 2nd gate, added with the significant boost in strength, speed, and power from the 7th gate, I really don't see how that single Mokutan branch could completely restrain 7G Gai from thrusting his arm to perform Hirudora.

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How do you two conclude that Gai wasn't in movement here? It was shown side by side with Raikari thrust, with the same Kanji, and the same lines that that indicate when something is in motion. Furthermore, Gai's fingers were aflamed. Unless you guys really think that Gai can now spawn fire while doing nothing, he was in mid-motion. It's essentially the same thing as Morning Peacock... When Gai punches/kick, his arms/legs catch on fire due to it's speed.

Discrediting Hirudora from being a taijutsu move because of a hand sign isn't a proper arguement. Different arts of taijutsu have many different hand formations, body stances, technique, etc. Morning Peacock, for example, has a body stance. This means nothing. It's a hand sign, not a hand seal. Hirudora is labeled as an A-rank taijutsu move, which tells you it is difficult to perform. Makes zero sense to say Gai can simply clap his fists, make a hand sign, and then Hirudora just shoots right out of his hands with zero body motion. That fact that it's taijutsu means it incorporates a taijutsu move. The manga supports this. It makes a whole lot more sense to say that Hirudora is a product of Gai's speed and power (Like anything else taijutsu related), rather then requiring practically nothing.

 

[Haizaki]

@FT, Weight was the main argument which led to this...If you're arguing against what we're saying, you're basically supporting the fact the weight has a significant impact on the technique. Argument is if weight alters the Air pressure.

- The second gate doesn't bring you back to your current form..It increases your stamina by a little as seen with how Lee improved but just by a little. That in no way is going to push Gai up to such a state where he'll power through the same Mokuton that was strong enough to bind Hachibi completely. Not happening even with the Seventh Gate.

Spoiler

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Not to mention this as well

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- We saw Gai heavily restrained..When we see him next, we see him with just a simple hand seal/sign. What makes one even disagree with your post more is the fact that we can actually see Kakashi's thrust but for some unknown reason we don't see Gai's? We only see him with a hand seal. You can't ask how we know he didn't when it clearly wasn't shown. That's left for you to prove because it was clearly not shown and we could see him heavily restricted by it. However we see Kakashi actually doing so but Gai with just a prepared hand seal unlike the other times when we actually see him push it forward to launch it. He only did the hand seal and it was prepared.

- The procedure for Asakujaku is different because he punches so fast to create the flames. Something he doesn't do for Hiruodra as KidGamer clearly showed him forming it with just a simple tap which doesn't require the physical prowess like punches and kicks so fast. Your argument would work if they required the same procedure to be made. However we can see the output fire isn't altered by anything else(To those who believe weight can alter the strength of fire and Air pressure)

@Your last paragraph, What exactly was required? You have to use evidence rather than it being an A Rank Taijutsu for why it shouldn't just require those steps. Tell us why Gai would always stop to use the hand seal? In the middle of a Juubi Jin where he was delivering repeated punches and kicks, he still stopped to use a hand seal to fire it. Why? Because the seal is a necessity for some reason

Not to mention, you have to tell us how Gai somehow created it while just standing in one position with just a tap? How? What movement? He gathered them all with just a tap? Then he launched his hand forward to aim it and the opponent. What evidence do you have asides "It's Taijutsu"? Doesn't mean anything if it's placed under this category. DB "It uses no chakra because it is Taijutsu" which could be solely the reason why it is placed under this category.

Neji's one blow body is classified under the art of Taijutsu and yet he doesn't need to move an inch to use it as seen with Kido where he was completely webbed or against Zetsu where he was restrained. The only difference with this Taijutsu is Gentle fist which damages the organs and can make use of chakra to strengthen and alter its attack. Main point is it's Taijutsu which should still stand due to the fact that Taijutsu according to you requires a form to be delivered(punches, kicks and all that) like you said. Correct? :

That fact that it's taijutsu means it incorporates a taijutsu move.

 

[NarutoX28]

I don't know how weight has anything to do with anything I posted. I simply don't agree with the notion that Gai creates that specific hand seal, and then Hirudora shoots out of his hand with zero movement.

I honestly wasn't even trying to refute whether weight impacted Hirudora. My main point was that the actual motion of your fists is irrelevant to the accumulation and the condensing of the air pressure.

First of all, we know that Gai had to of activated the 7th gate straight from base form in order to perform Hirudora. By doing so, he also opens the 2nd gate, which temporarily rejuvenates the body. With the boost of energy from the 2nd gate, added with the significant boost in strength, speed, and power from the 7th gate, I really don't see how that single Mokutan branch could completely restrain 7G Gai from thrusting his arm to perform Hirudora.

I'm certainly not going to deny that.

Gai's body was pretty beat up after his clash with Madara using the 7th Gates and he practically managed to use the 8th Gates while his entire body was pushed beyond his limits.

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How do you two conclude that Gai wasn't in movement here? It was shown side by side with Raikari thrust, with the same Kanji, and the same lines that that indicate when something is in motion. Furthermore, Gai's fingers were aflamed. Unless you guys really think that Gai can now spawn fire while doing nothing, he was in mid-motion. It's essentially the same thing as Morning Peacock... When Gai punches/kick, his arms/legs catch on fire due to it's speed.

Those lines could simply indicate the motion and force of the air pressure accumulated considering these lines are present here:

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But really, none of us denied that Gai's fists are in motion when he actually uses Hirudora, so that panel could very well indicate that he formed his seal and prepared to thrust his fists out to launch that air pressure.

His fingers being aflamed could be a byproduct of him thrusting his fists quickly. Thrusting your fists faster is an indication of launching Hirudora, so the faster that motion is completed, the earlier Hirudora is launched. Another reason for why that is is the fact that accumulating all of that air pressure requires the 7th Gates and the 7th Gates causes one to release a large amount of thermal energy. Exerting energy to use Hirudora on top of that property could be what causes his fingers to heat up.

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This scan does indicate that his fingers weren't aflamed until after the seal was completed (when his fists were in motion) which could indicate that the act of moving your fists to launch Hirudora is what causes the fingers to aflame.

Either way, I think both theories are possible.

Discrediting Hirudora from being a taijutsu move because of a hand sign isn't a proper arguement. Different arts of taijutsu have many different hand formations, body stances, technique, etc. Morning Peacock, for example, has a body stance. This means nothing. It's a hand sign, not a hand seal. Hirudora is labeled as an A-rank taijutsu move, which tells you it is difficult to perform.

We never denied that a hand seal would indicate that it's not a Taijutsu move. It's obviously a Taijutsu move as Gai had already stated here:

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Makes zero sense to say Gai can simply clap his fists, make a hand sign, and then Hirudora just shoots right out of his hands with zero body motion. That fact that it's taijutsu means it incorporates a taijutsu move. The manga supports this. It makes a whole lot more sense to say that Hirudora is a product of Gai's speed and power (Like anything else taijutsu related), rather then requiring practically nothing.

The Taijutsu component is factored in because it doesn't even require chakra in order to use in the first place.

Hirudora can't be a product of Gai's speed and power when all it requires is a single hand seal (though it likely does require a high level control and the 7th Gates in order to use it.)

 

[Yocolaw]

Gai destroys naruto period 7gated gai normal was just as fast a madara