Pretty sure if Gai has no weight then his punch will be extremely fast but not enough to make up for the lack of momentum he had when he still had weight. "Fastest punch" when coupled with his weight is what gives the technique the momentum to become so powerful.
Lightened 7th Gate Gai vs KCSM Naruto
- Thread starter Manda II
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Kagustuchi
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If you believe that Hirudora would be affected by being light or heavy, then you surely have to believe the same for Asakujaku. Even though we know this doesn't affect the power of the flames at all. It's a hand seal that creates that and the only thing that can be affected is the speed of the Jutsu and not the power in this case. His weight has nothing to do with the condensed Air pressure created.
Hirudora isn't the usual punch, it's a created one.
Hirudora isn't the usual punch, it's a created one.
Friction is directly proportional to force exerted on an object. Put a rubber eraser on a table and move it fast without exerting force on it and it will have slight friction. When you apply loads of force on the eraser against the table there will be far more friction. Kisame supports my point in the VIZ [
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]. He says Asa Kujaku's strength comes from its flame and the shockwave of punched air.
KidGamer65
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He only makes a handsign and then all of the air pressure gathers around him. If it took a lot of physical power then Gai wouldn't have been able to perform Hirudora against Edo Madara when he was bound by Mokuton, on his knees, bloody and battered.
This has no relevance to the fact that the flame remains completely unaffected by having more or less weight. The flames itself remains unaffected...The speed of his punch creates the flames but the flames itself are just ordinary created flames from the aftermath of his punch. Not sure how the bold and underlined relate to the fact that the flame remain completely unaffected.
He said "A Taijutsu that destroys an opponent via flames and shockwave of punched air". That's Asakujaku as a whole which is a combination of both...The flame created is completely unaffected but the physical punch becomes affected by his weight. Hiruodra remains completely unaffected by his weight as well. It's a hand sign that's required and the technique itself is a punch but not like Gai's ordinary punches which are determined by his weight. In other words, it's a created punch and the condensed air pressure that explodes would never ever be affected by his weight. His arms were tied up but he just needed a simple seal to release the technique which indicates weight has no relevance to its power.
How much fire would be created by a lightened Gai's Asa Kujaku? He would perform it much faster, thus more fire and more punches.
If Hirudora was indeed weakened by the lightened boulder, i still think Asa Kujaku ends Naruto. And how much does Hirudora have to be weakened to become non lethal? It's an attack that destroyed a v3 susano, so it downscaling it's power doesn't mean anyone can survive it.
If Hirudora was indeed weakened by the lightened boulder, i still think Asa Kujaku ends Naruto. And how much does Hirudora have to be weakened to become non lethal? It's an attack that destroyed a v3 susano, so it downscaling it's power doesn't mean anyone can survive it.
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The flame is created with friction. There would be no flame here.
The flame is only created because of the friction which is only possible because of his weight. Everything correlates with one another.
This is why I said it doesn't matter because that's the speed aspect you're referring to. Asakujaku becomes a Jutsu once the flame is involved. No flame, no Asakujaku. Hence my point "Weight doesn't affect the flames". What you're referring to is him not being able to do it or not in this scenario but what I'm telling you is whether or not he can do it, the weight would never ever have an impact on the flame itself. No fiction, no flame is something else I'm not speaking about because it has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the flames. Just like how it would have nothing to do with the effectiveness of the condensed Air pressure that explodes and isn't dependent on weight.
Now back to Hirudora, my point stands very well that AT becomes completely unaffected by his weight.
Oh I see what you mean now. But your argument is flawed, the attack is not a pure flame in the same way Hirudora is not just a tiger. The flame has a shockwave behind it which Kisame commented on just like Hirudora is basically a shockwave. So if anything you're supporting my point instead of disproving it.
After careful consideration, I agree that Morning Peacock is impacted by Gai's Mass.
The initial energy of the system as Gai completes his punch is all kinetic energy which is mv^2. Afterwards, all of that energy dissipates and becomes dissipated energy which is in fact, heat, which is the aftermath of Morning Peacock.
However, due to the fact velocity is being squared, then the decrease in mass is going to have less of an impact than the increase in velocity, so if mass is cut in half and velocity is doubled, then the amount of dissipated energy is still increasing.
So in actuality, I believe everyone is correct here, but being lightened (therefore higher velocity) has a greater impact on Morning Peacock than Gai's mass here.
Edit: Oversimplification
The initial energy of the system as Gai completes his punch is all kinetic energy which is mv^2. Afterwards, all of that energy dissipates and becomes dissipated energy which is in fact, heat, which is the aftermath of Morning Peacock.
However, due to the fact velocity is being squared, then the decrease in mass is going to have less of an impact than the increase in velocity, so if mass is cut in half and velocity is doubled, then the amount of dissipated energy is still increasing.
So in actuality, I believe everyone is correct here, but being lightened (therefore higher velocity) has a greater impact on Morning Peacock than Gai's mass here.
Edit: Oversimplification
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That's an over simplification though. The decrease in mass doesn't directly correlate to the same increase in velocity (i.e.
half the mass and you get double the velocity). Gai's force placed should be around the same, so Hirudora should stay
the same. However, with less mass, his acceleration should increase. Thus a = F/m.
And since v = at as the initial velocity is 0, we get Ft/m. An increase in acceleration though, decreases
the time as the distance his fists travel is still limited by the length of his arm. To see how these
equations actually correlate to Gai's power though, we'd need to have real numbers however. Nonetheless,
an unaffected Hirudora at point blank upon will likely defeat Naruto. Although Naruto is far more durable
than Kisame, the Hirudora used on Kisame had been weakened by being underwater, and having to fight
off a powerful jutsu while traveling a huge distance. The difference in strength between a fresh Hirudora
and the one that hit Kisame will likely be greater than the difference in durability between KCSM Naruto
and Kisame.
Hirudora one shots.
I'm actually thinking things through here because Kishimoto portrayed there would be a lack of momentum such as when Kabuto believed Lightened Ei's hits would be far weaker when it was about to be used against Muu.
That lack of momentum indicates that mass decreases more than velocity increases. It could be by a substantial amount if the attack was believed to be rather weak in comparison to the Raikage's actual strength.
It's still difficult to say, but it could be possible that mass decreases much more than velocity increases.
That lack of momentum indicates that mass decreases more than velocity increases. It could be by a substantial amount if the attack was believed to be rather weak in comparison to the Raikage's actual strength.
It's still difficult to say, but it could be possible that mass decreases much more than velocity increases.
You're wrong here. They become weightless but maintain mass (not actually possible but that's manga physics). Ay became weightless but did not increase his speed in correlation to the amount of weight he decreased. Same applies to Onoki. So it is actually hugely affected because the loss in weight barely correlates with the speed obtained in exchange, in this manga.
No it's not. I referenced strictly the flame when speaking about Asakujaku...As for AT, I hope to God you're not trying to say what I think it you are. That would be somewhat illogical suggesting that Gai's weight alters the power of Hirudora when he needs strictly a hand seal to create it...to create the condensed Air pressure. I hope you aren't saying the weight alters the Air pressure because there's nothing to say other than that being a ridiculous argument.
Besides I explained how Gai completely tied up could still release it in a dead state...AT is a fist of Air pressure(which makes the attack what it is in terms of power) and unless you're arguing the Air pressure is altered by his weight, I'm not prolonging this because that's ridiculous.
"That single blow is like the roar of a ferocious tiger! A true fist of air pressure that is concentrated into a single point faces towards the enemy."
The Air pressure is then released which causes the devastating blast...If you think weight alters this, that makes no sense.
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The flame and the shockwave are dependant on one another, how many times do I need to say this? YOU brought up Asa Kujaku, now you can concede the fact that it works against your argument for Hirudora since you tried to use Asa Kujaku as a basis for Hirudora.. Hirudora's shockwave and the tiger are dependant on one another, one can't exist without the other. Suggesting the hand seal is all that's needed for Hirudora is retarded. It's clearly been stated multiple times to be his quickest punch, why would it need to be his 'quickest punch' if the punch itself has no relevance on Hirudora? Rofl.
Here's the DB for it;
Not a SINGLE reference to the hand seals. When Gai talks to Kisame about it, there's not a SINGLE reference to the hand seals. So you saying the ONLY thing needed are the hand seals is absolutely ridiculous and goes against everything canon has stated/shown. VIZ backs me up, he says it's just a punch [
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] (fastest punch tho).Still had movement of his arms, regardless of how slight. It doesn't matter what it is, what you think it is, or what you want it to be. Manga made it clear that it's a punch, and not a hand seal jutsu like you are trying to assert. It's taijutsu, taijutsu does not work as you are trying to suggest.
KidGamer65
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What in the hell am I reading?
Handsign with no movement. Hirudora has nothing to do with the force Gai puts behind his movement....ignoring the fact that the notion he generates all that pressure with that slight a movement in the first place.
Manga said Hirudora is his quickest punch because of how fast it travels. DB msde it clear that the Hirudora itself is the fist.
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Handsign with no movement. Hirudora has nothing to do with the force Gai puts behind his movement....ignoring the fact that the notion he generates all that pressure with that slight a movement in the first place.
Manga said Hirudora is his quickest punch because of how fast it travels. DB msde it clear that the Hirudora itself is the fist.
Then read and do yourself a damn favor smh.
- I don't not at all give a flying rat ass about the shockwave...If only you could truly read you'll see that I said the flame itself is unaffected. The shockwaves or whatever don't matter because his weight doesn't add to the power of the fire itself simply because it cannot, this would be relevant if I was speaking about the attack as a whole which combines both. Learn to read. Can you think or even read well? I have to repeat the same damn thing for you easily and yet you keep bring up irrelevance.
- I can't...I just cannot. I used the basis of the flame being created from the physical technique and related to Hirudora's out put which doesn't require the same procedure as Asakaujaku(Punching so many times to create the flames from friction). I used the fact that the flames are unaffected even though it's an output of physicality. If Gai was heavy, he won't be able to create the flames..However, if he could create the flames, the power of the flames would be unaffected. Unless you want to show me more of how silly you are by suggesting the weight would affect the flames.
I can't believe this...You legit cannot read. So if Gai were to not use the hand seal, how would Hirudora be made. Plus go and ahead...I wonder how KidGamer must have felt haven't to repeat such easy procedures to you.
Gai needs a hand seal to CREATE the punch and stop using "Fastest punch" when the mechanics behind the 2 are different. Fastest punch doesn't mean it works like ordinary punches....Especially when it's clearly differentiated.
Now tell me the other requirements needed? The hand seal is what's needed to carry the whole thing out. The databook you've brought doesn't go against what I have stated because the Manga has shown this repeatedly. Oh tell me why Gai decided to pause to use the hand seal against Madara while using repeated punches and kicks? The hand seal is needed for the fist powered by Air pressure which Gai's weight doesn't affect. I'm telling you this again, try examine your thinking capacity.
Is this guy serious? People don't mind thinking dumb things out before they spew it? Gai's arms were tied up against Madara so what he did was bring them together for the hand seal which was a necessity for the technique.
- You're going to tell how in the world Gai's weight affects the Air pressure of Hirudora...At least you're going to tell me how without using this incredibly dumb logic "Slight movement with his arm"(Christ :lol)
- I've explained to you that Hirudora is not an ordinary lunch so the function of ordinary punches do not apply to Hirudora since you guys always think its logical to apply these things even though they make no sense. Gai states in your viz scan that it's a super punch and not an ordinary one so at least you people can use your common sense. It's a punch that contain air pressure which drives the power of the attack. Somehow, you've gone as far to state weight affects this.
Lmfao..this guy really killed me with his nonsensical arguments. Jesus. I need to make this known that Apex is arguing that Gai's weight affects the Air pressure in AT. lool.
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Forbidden Technique
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What is being argued here..? Gai makes that specific hand sign, then thrusts his arms forward like a punch, which creates Hirudora. He doesn't just sit still with that handsign, and Hirudora just magically shoots out of his hand. That makes zero sense, given it's a taijutsu move.
KidGamer65
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Uh, no.
No movement. Not sure how you two can actually argue that Gais little thrust creates that much power. His thrust launches the pressure, it doesnt create it.
That scan shows Gai tapping his fist with his hand to form the pressure, and then he thrusts his hand to launch it. It being Taijutsu isnt an excuse, because there is no reason a Taijutsu move should have a handsign in the first place.
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No movement. Not sure how you two can actually argue that Gais little thrust creates that much power. His thrust launches the pressure, it doesnt create it.
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That scan shows Gai tapping his fist with his hand to form the pressure, and then he thrusts his hand to launch it. It being Taijutsu isnt an excuse, because there is no reason a Taijutsu move should have a handsign in the first place.