Naruto has no experience with Dojutsu, so Sasuke who has experience with Senjutsu would be prominently stronger. Not to mention Sasuke is a Genius so he has the upper hand when it comes to understanding new abilities and powers.
Those powers are nothing compared to a bijuu, being a jinchuriki is no small feat. Containing all nine I imagine is extremely hard. Also i'm sure the bijuu have experience with rinnegan, especially since the was hagoromo's specialty.
Those powers are nothing compared to a bijuu, being a jinchuriki is no small feat. Containing all nine I imagine is extremely hard. Also i'm sure the bijuu have experience with rinnegan, especially since the was hagoromo's specialty.
Yeah but at the same time it showed his inexperience. He lost to Naruto with a single fist. Clearly Toneri was no immediate push over, he was capable of being a small threat despite being blind and having no special powers outside of his puppets and chakra sealing ball.
When things got serious, Naruto countered every single hit and defeated him almost too easily. That Naruto wasn't even using his Full Power either.
Naruto was simply stronger than toneri. Deva path was overwhelmed by 6 tails kyuubi, that doesn't mean kyuubi was a better fighter or that nagato was inexperienced.
He wasn't really skilled with using his Dojutsu. When he activated it, he was capable of seeing the enemy shinobi (who thought he was invisible) and he striked him dead. Obito was keeping up with Kakashi, but it had more to do with the fact that the Sharingan grants precognition, therefore he can see strikes before they happen almost.
He was without a doubt, he was capable of using all its abilities at maximum levels. How can you accept sasuke not having mastery of the rinnegan due to not being able to use its full abilities at VOTE2 and reject obito's mastery over his MS when he used its full power in under a few minutes? There are only two possible choices here, either you accept that obito is more adept at using dojutsu than sasuke or dojutsu aren't that hard to master.
It doesn't have much to do with Sasuke having full control of RSM, but it's the fact that Sasuke has experience with Senjutsu itself. You can say that Sasuke doesn't know how to 'absorb, gather, and manipulate Natural Energy' but at the same time Sasuke didn't know how to use his Rinnegan Paths, and a second later he was using CT without cores :lol
Sasuke's experience with senjutsu is minimal, since he can't make it. One can only be called a skilled senjutsu user when they can create senjutsu chakra on their own. Otherwise I could just say that nagato is skilled in its use since he absorbed and used senjutsu chakra from two sages via their attacks(jiraya and naruto) but can he truely be considered experienced in the art? CM is no different, the seal which holds a piece of oro does all the senjutsu chakra cretion for them, all the users need to do is absorb the created senjutsu chakra. You mentioned sasuke learning how to use paths, same can be said for naruto he showed advanced healing technique in an instant. Turning bijuu into cores is an ability that sasuke's rinnegan is more effective at but all rinnegan's can replicate it. As shown with hogoromo, once a rinnegan user has their chakra inserted in a target the target can be turned into a core. Other rinnegan users need chakra recievers or physical contact to this, sasuke could do this because his rinnegan could cast genjutsu and insert his chakra into the bijuu remotely.
VIZ said his CC was equal to Hagoromo, or surpassed. I can't remember which one.
I think Sasuke has the edge still.
Naruto was simply stronger than toneri. Deva path was overwhelmed by 6 tails kyuubi, that doesn't mean kyuubi was a better fighter or that nagato was inexperienced.
Arguably we haven't seen peak Tenseigen Mode, this was at best comparable to Naruto first getting SM. Both inexperienced to their powers, but SM Naruto actually had training while Toneri did not. Toneri's main abilities came from his chakra mode, TSB-like attacks, and telekinesis. Naruto basically ate his attacks, and even switched to Base with a kyuubi chakra powered hand to smash him into bits, and before that he used some chakra shield to tear through his TSB blast. Nothing but experience (and power) triumphing over raw power with no experience.
Now place Naruto and Sasuke here.
NARUTO - RSM - Skilled
NARUTO - RINNEGAN - Unskilled
He was without a doubt, he was capable of using all its abilities at maximum levels. How can you accept sasuke not having mastery of the rinnegan due to not being able to use its full abilities at VOTE2 and reject obito's mastery over his MS when he used its full power in under a few minutes? There are only two possible choices here, either you accept that obito is more adept at using dojutsu than sasuke or dojutsu aren't that hard to master.
Because I wasn't talking about Obito and his MS abilities, I was talking about the Obito who activated his Sharingan right after Kakashi lost his eye. THough if we are talking about Obito's mastery of his MS, that was after a period of time when Madara infused his body with Hashirama cells through the Zetsu and trained him, or at least guided him, right?
Even then Obito's MS ability isn't really one to show growth, these abilities literally unlock themselves in that sense. Look at MS Sasuke for example, he used both Amaterasu and Kagutschi without having any real experience in using them before. But in future battles Sasuke showed more advanced setups with the techniques itself. I doubt the Obito who fought against feat-less Kirigakure Shinobi is the same Obito who later fought Hokage Minato. In itself his Kamui ability lets him transport his body into another dimension, but he didn't really showcase his other ability which allows him to suck himself and other people within its limited space.
Sasuke's experience with senjutsu is minimal, since he can't make it. One can only be called a skilled senjutsu user when they can create senjutsu chakra on their own. Otherwise I could just say that nagato is skilled in its use since he absorbed and used senjutsu chakra from two sages via their attacks(jiraya and naruto) but can he truely be considered experienced in the art? CM is no different, the seal which holds a piece of oro does all the senjutsu chakra cretion for them, all the users need to do is absorb the created senjutsu chakra. You mentioned sasuke learning how to use paths, same can be said for naruto he showed advanced healing technique in an instant. Turning bijuu into cores is an ability that sasuke's rinnegan is more effective at but all rinnegan's can replicate it. As shown with hogoromo, once a rinnegan user has their chakra inserted in a target the target can be turned into a core. Other rinnegan users need chakra recievers or physical contact to this, sasuke could do this because his rinnegan could cast genjutsu and insert his chakra into the bijuu remotely.
While you are right, Sasuke's experience with Senjutsu is limited, it is enough. You see it isn't about Sasuke just having the experience in getting Senjutsu, it's the fact that he has knowledge of using it already. That's what he has over Naruto, who has never used a Dojutsu in his lifetime. I mean look how masterful Madara was with Sage Mode despite having no training what's so ever.
Sasuke has been able to use the Curse Mark, and Juugo's Senjutsu all because that encounter with Orochimaru. While Sasuke may not know the required steps to get these abilities for himself, Sasuke has the required abilities to understand and control it. That's what makes him different than someone who has absolutely no knowledge.
Naruto's abilities were manifested due to his grasp and understanding of most things through Rikudou Sage Mode, or as the DB imply he had a wide general knowledge of all things 'chakra' was it? So does it really come to a surprise that he was pulling techniques out of his ass?
Id say naruto because sasuke has no knowledge on how to handle sage mode while naruto has seen the rinnegan in full effect and knows how to use it and what it can do
Arguably we haven't seen peak Tenseigen Mode, this was at best comparable to Naruto first getting SM. Both inexperienced to their powers, but SM Naruto actually had training while Toneri did not. Toneri's main abilities came from his chakra mode, TSB-like attacks, and telekinesis. Naruto basically ate his attacks, and even switched to Base with a kyuubi chakra powered hand to smash him into bits, and before that he used some chakra shield to tear through his TSB blast. Nothing but experience (and power) triumphing over raw power with no experience.
Toneri obviously had training before acquiring the tenseigan, he was able to use it fluently. Whether this was the limit of the tenseigan or not is left for us to speculate since we can't know for sure. It could be that what toneri showed was the tenseigan's power and that only difference between him and hamura is raw power. Naruto overpowered many opponents, nothing in his fight with toneri showed any lack of experience on toneri's part. It wasn't even hinted to my knowledge. Toneri was using the tenseigan techniques like he learnt them years ago.
Now place Naruto and Sasuke here.
NARUTO - RSM - Skilled
NARUTO - RINNEGAN - Unskilled
Even kabuto who had juugo's genes needed to travel and learn SM, it is clearly shown that just experiencing senjutsu chakra and using it is not enough. Anyone can use senjutsu chakra when given to them in a quantity they can handle(sasuke experienced pain due to the mark and oro's influence not the senjutsu chakra). By your logic the sound 5 and all other CM users are skilled in senjutsu.
Because I wasn't talking about Obito and his MS abilities, I was talking about the Obito who activated his Sharingan right after Kakashi lost his eye. THough if we are talking about Obito's mastery of his MS, that was after a period of time when Madara infused his body with Hashirama cells through the Zetsu and trained him, or at least guided him, right?
That only happened in the anime, in the manga no one trained obito before he decided to join madara. The zetsu were there to keep him company. Hashirama cells don't grant mastery of techniques
Even then Obito's MS ability isn't really one to show growth, these abilities literally unlock themselves in that sense. Look at MS Sasuke for example, he used both Amaterasu and Kagutschi without having any real experience in using them before. But in future battles Sasuke showed more advanced setups with the techniques itself. I doubt the Obito who fought against feat-less Kirigakure Shinobi is the same Obito who later fought Hokage Minato. In itself his Kamui ability lets him transport his body into another dimension, but he didn't really showcase his other ability which allows him to suck himself and other people within its limited space.
So you're saying that MS and tenseigan abilities unlock themselves while rinnegan ones don't? Sasuke didn't unlock his MS abilities near instantly. First came amaterasu during the killer bee fight, then came susanoo and kagutsuchi during the kage summit. Amaterasu was unlocked weeks before kagutsuchi and susanoo. Obito that fought minato was more skilled overall, his MS didn't change. Obito gained control of his MS instantly, seeing as how unlike sasuke he didn't strugle to use its powers but went right into a fight seconds after activation
While you are right, Sasuke's experience with Senjutsu is limited, it is enough. You see it isn't about Sasuke just having the experience in getting Senjutsu, it's the fact that he has knowledge of using it already. That's what he has over Naruto, who has never used a Dojutsu in his lifetime. I mean look how masterful Madara was with Sage Mode despite having no training what's so ever.
Don't compare sasuke to madara who spent years studying hashirama and is an avid researcher. Sasuke during the juubito fight admitted his lack of knowledge regarding sage arts.
Sasuke has been able to use the Curse Mark, and Juugo's Senjutsu all because that encounter with Orochimaru. While Sasuke may not know the required steps to get these abilities for himself, Sasuke has the required abilities to understand and control it. That's what makes him different than someone who has absolutely no knowledge.
Having CM is more similar to being a jinchuriki than having SM. Like I said before sasuke gets fed the senjutsu chakra by the seal, he has no knowledge on how it's made or anything. This is no different from how a jinchuriki gets fed bijuu chakra. Obito and madara both characters whom were never jinchuriki easily controlled the bijuu they sealed in their bodies. This does not require any pre-jinchuriki experience, rather it requires them to have the means to handle the power they have absorbed. The very same goes for the curse mark users. Saying sasuke can handle RSM easily due to his knowledge of the CM is like saying kidomaru can do the same. There is no understanding required, seeing as how everything has already been done for them. This is different from any form of SM.
Naruto's abilities were manifested due to his grasp and understanding of most things through Rikudou Sage Mode, or as the DB imply he had a wide general knowledge of all things 'chakra' was it? So does it really come to a surprise that he was pulling techniques out of his ass?
First off all bolded or header words in the data book are hype. No different from Temari's blow away the universe thing. The hype says Naruto has an unconscious ability to grasp the very nature of chakra and comprehend all things in creation. If I was to take this literally then naruto would be able to do almost anything he wants, it would also mean that he has knowledge of the past, present and future(since they too are part of creation). Surely you don't believe in this.
Naruto while usually portrayed as stupid has been shown to grasp the workings of complicated techniques(techniques he never used prior)well. The thing is he isn't articulate enough to explain it. This has been shown long before he gained RSM, during his FRS training and when he distributed his chakra to the alliance. Naruto masters techniques just as quickly as sasuke does, at times even quicker.
Assuming these are their adult versions, Sasuke would be stronger if he were to get the Juubi. Adult Sasuke should be at least as powerful as Rinnegan Hagoromo's, since he obtained half his power in the War Arc, and then grew in strength from what we can clearly see in the movies and statements from Kishi himself. So give him the Juubi and he'd be on JJ Hagoromo's level. Getting Rinnegan and the other half of Hagoromo's power will buff Naruto's powers, but not to the level of what the Juubi did for Hagoromo...that is unless you think getting half of Hagoromo's power is a comparable boost to getting the Juubi itself, despite Hagoromo becoming god like with the Juubi's power. So:
JJ Sasuke>>RG RSM Naruto=RSM RG Sasuke.
Sasuke would also dominate in physical ability. He already matches RSM Naruto without enhancements. So give Naruto the Rinnegan (which won't buff his abilities, but the other half of the chakra will if we are assuming he gets that too) and he gets a buff inferior to what the Juubi would grant him.
From my understanding Sasuke already has/had Rikodu Chakra.
He even had all 9 Bijuu Chakra at some point.
But if you ment a Sasuke with Cloak and Gudodamas, or Sasuke Juubi Jinchuriki well that's another story.
If you made Sasuke a Juubi Jinchuriki he would automatically be stronger than RSM Naruto with Rinnegan.
On the other hand, if you gave Sasuke RSM Cloak with Gudodamas, well they would be equal.
No one knows what type of abilty Naruto would have if he gained a Doujutsu, but we can assume it would also be a S/T jutsu.
It's been proven they got the same talent, and each one is a genius in their own way.
They have always been equal, and if they were to get that kind of power-up it would be even more obvious they are equam
