SM Jiraiya vs Edo Nagato

[TheAncientCenturion]

Counter for Sound genjutsu? Didn't think so.​

I mean, there's fuuton. There's the fact Pein acknowledged the genjutsu moments before being put into it.

So yeah.

 

[Beans2]

Well yeah, obviously I know that, but the only difference is because there is more chakra in Jiraiya's body than there is in his techniques. Has nothing to do with "pure Senjutsu" has there is no such thing. Senjutsu is Nature Energy and Chakra. That's what lies in the body and the techs of SM users.

Ok.

Are you really using the Toad Army as a driving force in this argument? :lol

I am.

Yeah, he never did. But he can.

Assuming this gets down to close combat. Which it won't.

What? First of all the King of Hell is summoned an inch away from the user. Jiraiya won't be able to do anything before Nagato steps inside, and once he steps inside he's spit back out and repaired. Jiraiya can foolishly rush at it with a Rasengan if he wants, but then Nagato just steps out, absorbs it and then kills him with Asura Path.

You're acting like getting repaired by the King of Hell is an instant process. Nagato first has to summon it and wait a second for it to fully rise out of the ground. It

You must be registered for see links

while Nagato steps inside. Closes its mouth and repairs him. Then spits him back out. No reason why Jiraiya can't destroy the statue before all this is complete. And Rasengan isn't needed to destroy the statue- Goemon or Raging Lion's Mane could take it out from a range.

And with the strategies I've put forward, Nagato will be dead before he can summon the King of Hell. So you don't have to respond to this paragraph if you don't want to since it's irrelevant.

Not sure if I should take the last sentence seriously considering they needed to blind the other paths and then isolate one of them inside a Toads mouth for that to work. Unless Nagato gets trapped in a Toads mouth, this strategy isn't worth mentioning.

Lol. There are no other paths. There's just Nagato here, so I don't see where you're going with this. Dust cloud provides a smoke screen which temporarily breaks Nagato's shared vision with his summons. Like it did in canon. Then there's Kebari Senbon which can blind the animal summons in their eyes like Itachi did with kunais. Bottom line is Jiraiya can eliminate their shared vision. But since you only even addressed the last sentence of my paragraph, I guess you agree that animal summons don't pose a threat.

Blocked by COR? No. The AoE of the missile and lasers far exceeds COR. If he holds it in front of him, he'd pretty much be asking to die a terrible death. Dodged by Shunshin? Sure, unless Nagato uses it from mid to close range. The Speed and the AoE spell Jiraiya's death. [

You must be registered for see links

] [X]

Why can't Jiraiya dodge them at mid range? What speed feats do Asura rockets even have? The height of the Asura rockets

You must be registered for see links

. Assuming the location has buildings or trees in the area, Jiraiya can jump on top of one to avoid the blast range.

The AOE of the explosions only looked big in that panel because the missiles were sent out in four different directions so explosions were happening all over the place. Should he send missiles in four different directions against Jiraiya, he only has to dodge or block the one that is coming at him.

You must be registered for see links

is the size of one of those explosions. Multiply that times four and its AOE is still not that big.

Or an Asura Limb forms and blows Gamabunta to smithereens. Or an animal summon (Bird) blocks for him.

Let's see here. Giant toad is crashing down on him, and you think Asura missiles have enough force to send him flying backwards against gravity? Doesn't matter if the toad dies, the end result is the same. If the bird gets in the way, Gamabunta will squash the bird, and in turn bird falls on top of Nagato and turns him into a smear on the ground.

If only Nagato didn't obliterate him in less than 5 minutes.

I'd love to hear your explanation. Because Jiraiya can stay at long range and dodge missiles all day long if he wants to.

What in the actual......? Shrug off Asura Paths attacks?

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

. Asura Path having the power to tear off a

You must be registered for see links

(his attacks themselves are far superior) is enough reason for me not to believe that the toads with zero durability feats "shrug" off these missiles. It's painfully obvious that you are downplaying Nagato's abilities here. Not to mention being unable to move himself around is irrelevant when:

-He can move around like he did in canon, with his chameleon. If Jiraiya tries to destroy it then Nagato can protect it.
-He has Asura Paths jet boosters.

Nagato rapes the whole toad army with a single missile barrage, and then he rapes Jiraiya.

-Irrelevant because boss toads are more durable than Jiraiya's arm.
-Zero proof Asura missiles will kill toads because Gamabunta tanked a tailed beast's wind bullet.
-How does Nagato protect his chamaleon from Jiraiya + a toad army? Jiraiya knows where it is at all times so invisibility doesn't help. Jet boosters can't be spammed so he only can evade once or twice before the toad army swats him down.

Killing the whole toad army with a single missile barrage is the worst joke I've heard all day since his missile limit is four missiles which means 1 missile per giant toad. Which is not enough to kill it.

 

[TRE MERCER]

I mean, there's fuuton. There's the fact Pein acknowledged the genjutsu moments before being put into it.

So yeah.

What futon feats does Nagato have? For all we know he can probly only shoot futon bullets like Danzo. Bold is irrelevant.​

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

What futon feats does Nagato have? For all we know he can probly only shoot futon bullets like Danzo. Bold is irrelevant.​

This right here [

You must be registered for see links

]. That and sufficient time to react makes it a non-factor.

 

[TRE MERCER]

This right here [

You must be registered for see links

]. That and sufficient time to react makes it a non-factor.

Point proven though the anime reference makes it much better.​

 

[KidGamer65]

You're acting like getting repaired by the King of Hell is an instant process. Nagato first has to summon it and wait a second for it to fully rise out of the ground. It

You must be registered for see links

while Nagato steps inside. Closes its mouth and repairs him. Then spits him back out. No reason why Jiraiya can't destroy the statue before all this is complete. And Rasengan isn't needed to destroy the statue- Goemon or Raging Lion's Mane could take it out from a range.

And with the strategies I've put forward, Nagato will be dead before he can summon the King of Hell. So you don't have to respond to this paragraph if you don't want to since it's irrelevant.

It always gets me when people dissect a single process to make it seem like it takes longer than what it really does.

1. It doesn't even take a second for the King of Hell to emerge from the ground first of all.
2. Second of all, the repairing process itself only takes a second.

You must be registered for see links

The only way it gets destroyed before Nagato can repair himself is if he tries to use it right in front of Jiraiya's face.

Lol. There are no other paths. There's just Nagato here, so I don't see where you're going with this. Dust cloud provides a smoke screen which temporarily breaks Nagato's shared vision with his summons. Like it did in canon. Then there's Kebari Senbon which can blind the animal summons in their eyes like Itachi did with kunais. Bottom line is Jiraiya can eliminate their shared vision. But since you only even addressed the last sentence of my paragraph, I guess you agree that animal summons don't pose a threat.

I'm saying your point makes zero sense because they used Bunta's mouth to block Shared Vision. Read that again. Dust Cloud was to blind them long enough to pull Animal Path inside. If Nagato has a summon outside of the cloud and above the cloud (bird) then this strategy obviously doesn't work.

Why can't Jiraiya dodge them at mid range? What speed feats do Asura rockets even have? The height of the Asura rockets

You must be registered for see links

. Assuming the location has buildings or trees in the area, Jiraiya can jump on top of one to avoid the blast range.

AoE is the reason he can't dodge them. Not speed.

And yeah, sure. But location was never specified. :lol. Something you probably should've done before actually posting the thread. And even if he does this, Nagato simply lets loose again and obliterates the trees along with his elevation above ground.

The AOE of the explosions only looked big in that panel because the missiles were sent out in four different directions so explosions were happening all over the place. Should he send missiles in four different directions against Jiraiya, he only has to dodge or block the one that is coming at him.

You must be registered for see links

is the size of one of those explosions. Multiply that times four and its AOE is still not that big.

And there is no reason why he would send them in four different directions when he only has one target. So this is an irrelevant point to make. And x4? What are you even talking about?

You must be registered for see images

That's far more than 4 missiles. Just because you only see 4 shooting off initially doesn't change that there are more.

Let's see here. Giant toad is crashing down on him, and you think Asura missiles have enough force to send him flying backwards against gravity? Doesn't matter if the toad dies, the end result is the same. If the bird gets in the way, Gamabunta will squash the bird, and in turn bird falls on top of Nagato and turns him into a smear on the ground.

Or Nagato simply uses Asura Path to dodge if Bunta tries to . If the bird gets in the way Gamabunta won't be able to cleave Nagato in half like you claimed he would.

I'd love to hear your explanation. Because Jiraiya can stay at long range and dodge missiles all day long if he wants to.

He's going to stay at long range against Nagato who has a chameleon that is fast enough to let him blindside B after repelling him with Shinra Tensei? He's going to stay at long range when Nagato can simply follow him with his Asura Boosters? Then there's the fact I have no reason to believe he's going to dodge multiple barrages of clips that have combined AoE's like

You must be registered for see links

, "all day".

-Irrelevant because boss toads are more durable than Jiraiya's arm.

:lol Not sure where this boss toad durability overrating came from, but they literally have no feats. Jiraiya tanked

You must be registered for see links

in Sage Mode. Yet Asura Path rips his arm off like it's nothing. Bunta is the only toad with a durability feat, and it's him tanking a bullet equal to his own Water Bullet.

-Zero proof Asura missiles will kill toads because Gamabunta tanked a tailed beast's wind bullet.

You mean the same wind bullet with zero feats but matching Bunta's Suiton? :lol. Try again.

-How does Nagato protect his chamaleon from Jiraiya + a toad army? Jiraiya knows where it is at all times so invisibility doesn't help. Jet boosters can't be spammed so he only can evade once or twice before the toad army swats him down.

Jiraiya knowing where it is doesn't matter when it's only purpose is so Nagato can move around. Nagato can counter every single offensive move in Jiraiya's arsenal. If it's chakra, Preta Path absorbs it. If it's something physical like Kebari Senbon, Asura Path missiles or the laser counter it.

Where is the bold coming from?

Killing the whole toad army with a single missile barrage is the worst joke I've heard all day since his missile limit is four missiles which means 1 missile per giant toad. Which is not enough to kill it.

Then you must not have bothered to read the post where you claimed that the Toad Army solos freaking Nagato without his Deva Powers. :lol. Let's not talk about jokes here. Downplay of Nagato's abilities is too damn stronk here. Then there's the fact that this 4 missiles stuff is false. Then there's the fact that missiles aren't his only attack. But that doesn't even matter as missiles are enough.

 

[Beans2]

It always gets me when people dissect a single process to make it seem like it takes longer than what it really does.

1. It doesn't even take a second for the King of Hell to emerge from the ground first of all.
2. Second of all, the repairing process itself only takes a second.

You must be registered for see links

The only way it gets destroyed before Nagato can repair himself is if he tries to use it right in front of Jiraiya's face.

1. Yes it does based on panel time. Nagato uses the jutsu. First

You must be registered for see links

, then the King of hell

You must be registered for see links

.
2. No it doesn't. There are multiple chewing sounds as well as saliva dripping from its mouth indicating that at least a couple seconds elapsed in this panel.

You must be registered for see images

The page you linked me to doesn't even show the whole process since it begins with Jigokudo summoned with its mouth already open and its arm out.

I'm saying your point makes zero sense because they used Bunta's mouth to block Shared Vision. Read that again. Dust Cloud was to blind them long enough to pull Animal Path inside. If Nagato has a summon outside of the cloud and above the cloud (bird) then this strategy obviously doesn't work.

I see.

AoE is the reason he can't dodge them. Not speed.

And yeah, sure. But location was never specified. :lol. Something you probably should've done before actually posting the thread. And even if he does this, Nagato simply lets loose again and obliterates the trees along with his elevation above ground.

The characters in this thread are SM Jiraiya (whose main battle takes place in a location with buildings) and Edo Nagato (whose main battle takes place in a location with lots of trees). If you use either one of these locations my point still stands. If Nagato lets loose a second barrage of missiles, Jiraiya just changes positions again.

And there is no reason why he would send them in four different directions when he only has one target. So this is an irrelevant point to make. And x4? What are you even talking about?

You must be registered for see images

That's far more than 4 missiles. Just because you only see 4 shooting off initially doesn't change that there are more.

I mistakenly thought that only four missiles were used there.

Or Nagato simply uses Asura Path to dodge if Bunta tries to . If the bird gets in the way Gamabunta won't be able to cleave Nagato in half like you claimed he would.

All the toads are attacking him. If Nagato evades Bunta's body slam with Asura rockets the other two toads follow up by attacking Nagato with their weapons, since I'm pretty sure those jets can only be used in short bursts instead of continuously. The bird strategy doesn't work unless it can fly fast enough to intercept a strike, and if it does, it only works once because said bird will die.

He's going to stay at long range against Nagato who has a chameleon that is fast enough to let him blindside B after repelling him with Shinra Tensei? He's going to stay at long range when Nagato can simply follow him with his Asura Boosters? Then there's the fact I have no reason to believe he's going to dodge multiple barrages of clips that have combined AoE's like

You must be registered for see links

, "all day".

I hope you are not saying that Nagato's chamaleon is faster than SM Jiraiya. I really hope you are not saying that, because that's be dumb if you were, especially since said chamaleon

You must be registered for see links

. Asura boosters are canonically slower than a SM user considering Asura was

You must be registered for see links

at top speed. You're also forgetting that Jiraiya can stand on top of a toad summon while it leaps away, and toads can cross huge distances fast with their leaps. Asura missile explosions can be dodged with Jiraiya's speed feats, or worst case, he summons a toad to act as a meat shield for him.

:lol Not sure where this boss toad durability overrating came from, but they literally have no feats. Jiraiya tanked

You must be registered for see links

in Sage Mode. Yet Asura Path rips his arm off like it's nothing. Bunta is the only toad with a durability feat, and it's him tanking a bullet equal to his own Water Bullet.

:lol. Still not sure how "Asura is phyiscally strong enough to rip off Jiraiya's arm" translates to "Asura missiles are strong enough to destroy giant toads." Unless I'm missing something?

Wrong. Wind bullet is stronger than water bullet. The two only matched each other since the wind bullet was being fired upwards against gravity while the water bullet was assisted by gravity.

NINJUTSU; Suiton: Teppoudama (Water Release: Gunshot)
User: Gamabunta
Offensive; Close, Medium, Long ranges; Rank: C

Main text

One kneads up chakra, converts it into Water, and then spits it out in the form of condensated balls...! Indeed, the high-speed waterball attack possesses just as much power to kill and main as an actual gunshot!! While this is a Suiton jutsu, it can still be employed someplace where no water is available, which is a great advantage. It's also possible to increase the power of destruction of the balls themselves by building up the chakra inside of them.

Captions

-A watery supra-cannonball!!

-A life-threatening shot straight at the enemy!!

Picture comments

-The number of bullets is determined while kneading chakra!

-Watery cannonballs are propelled from the Toad Boss' huge mouth. Their dimensions are extremely large in scale, akin to those of a small cliff!! By taking advantage of gravity, they brutally increase in power!!

You mean the same wind bullet with zero feats but matching Bunta's Suiton? :lol. Try again.

A single wind bullet is capable of

You must be registered for see links

. The matching suiton part was already explained.

Jiraiya knowing where it is doesn't matter when it's only purpose is so Nagato can move around. Nagato can counter every single offensive move in Jiraiya's arsenal. If it's chakra, Preta Path absorbs it. If it's something physical like Kebari Senbon, Asura Path missiles or the laser counter it.

He can't counter Frog Song

Where is the bold coming from?

Okay, maybe they can be spammed. Still they can only be used in short bursts (like every other rocket) and don't allow Nagato to coordinated flight like Onoki and Muu until he gets feats of him doing so.

Then you must not have bothered to read the post where you claimed that the Toad Army solos freaking Nagato without his Deva Powers. :lol. Let's not talk about jokes here. Downplay of Nagato's abilities is too damn stronk here. Then there's the fact that this 4 missiles stuff is false. Then there's the fact that missiles aren't his only attack. But that doesn't even matter as missiles are enough.

I hope you are not saying Asura Path can solo any form of Jiraiya. And ok. I was wrong about four missiles being his limit. And ok. Maybe the toad army isn't enough. But Jiraiya can win this. And it's definitely not a stomp.

 

[Zexion~]

Dear god, don't ever want to hear that "Jiraiya is never wanked" nonsense ever again.

Nagato stomps hard.

 

[KidGamer65]

1. Yes it does based on panel time. Nagato uses the jutsu. First

You must be registered for see links

, then the King of hell

You must be registered for see links

.
2. No it doesn't. There are multiple chewing sounds as well as saliva dripping from its mouth indicating that at least a couple seconds elapsed in this panel.

You must be registered for see images

The page you linked me to doesn't even show the whole process since it begins with Jigokudo summoned with its mouth already open and its arm out.

The page I liked you to wasn't meant to show the entire process. It was meant to show the chewing process. And come on now. It was summoned with it's tongue out. The previous panel shows no King of Hell. [

You must be registered for see links

] Chewing and repairing takes less than 3 seconds. Unless Nagato uses it from close to maybe mid range, there is absolutely no way Jiraiya is going to destroy it before Nagato repairs himself.

The characters in this thread are SM Jiraiya (whose main battle takes place in a location with buildings) and Edo Nagato (whose main battle takes place in a location with lots of trees). If you use either one of these locations my point still stands. If Nagato lets loose a second barrage of missiles, Jiraiya just changes positions again.

And then Nagato rinses and repeats till Jiraiya has no more hiding spots to run to. Nagato's chakra is unlimited. Jiraiya's hiding spots are not.

All the toads are attacking him. If Nagato evades Bunta's body slam with Asura rockets the other two toads follow up by attacking Nagato with their weapons, since I'm pretty sure those jets can only be used in short bursts instead of continuously. The bird strategy doesn't work unless it can fly fast enough to intercept a strike, and if it does, it only works once because said bird will die.

Who told you the bold? If the bird is kept near Nagato then it doesn't even need to cross any tremendous distance to get to him, and it doesn't matter if it only works once. Bird doesn't even matter since Nagato would straight up avoid it with his boosters.

I hope you are not saying that Nagato's chamaleon is faster than SM Jiraiya. I really hope you are not saying that, because that's be dumb if you were, especially since said chamaleon

You must be registered for see links

. Asura boosters are canonically slower than a SM user considering Asura was

You must be registered for see links

at top speed. You're also forgetting that Jiraiya can stand on top of a toad summon while it leaps away, and toads can cross huge distances fast with their leaps. Asura missile explosions can be dodged with Jiraiya's speed feats, or worst case, he summons a toad to act as a meat shield for him.

:lol. Please tell me where I said anything that'd lead anyone to believe that the chameleon is faster. I only said Jiraiya's never staying at long range, ever. He doesn't need to be faster to close enough distance to hit him with Asura Path's missiles, which have massive AoE of their own already. Same reply goes to the Asura boosters, but I lol @ the logic you are using here. SM Naruto=/=SM Jiraiya so don't give any of his feats to the latter.

If he does that then he dies along with the toad since the AoE of the attack far exceeds the size of any individual toad.


Yes. Toads can cross large distance at once, but you literally have zero speed feats for any toad that'd lead me to believe it'd evade Asura Path's missiles if fired close enough. Which would be from mid to close range.

:lol. Still not sure how "Asura is phyiscally strong enough to rip off Jiraiya's arm" translates to "Asura missiles are strong enough to destroy giant toads." Unless I'm missing something?

Asura's actual artillery>Asura's raw physical strength.

Wrong. Wind bullet is stronger than water bullet. The two only matched each other since the wind bullet was being fired upwards against gravity while the water bullet was assisted by gravity.

NINJUTSU; Suiton: Teppoudama (Water Release: Gunshot)
User: Gamabunta
Offensive; Close, Medium, Long ranges; Rank: C

Main text

One kneads up chakra, converts it into Water, and then spits it out in the form of condensated balls...! Indeed, the high-speed waterball attack possesses just as much power to kill and main as an actual gunshot!! While this is a Suiton jutsu, it can still be employed someplace where no water is available, which is a great advantage. It's also possible to increase the power of destruction of the balls themselves by building up the chakra inside of them.

Captions

-A watery supra-cannonball!!

-A life-threatening shot straight at the enemy!!

Picture comments

-The number of bullets is determined while kneading chakra!

-Watery cannonballs are propelled from the Toad Boss' huge mouth. Their dimensions are extremely large in scale, akin to those of a small cliff!! By taking advantage of gravity, they brutally increase in power!!

Ok.

A single wind bullet is capable of

You must be registered for see links

. The matching suiton part was already explained.

It's just about as long as the width of the bullet, and that's because it's traveling over said trees, then there's the fact that wrecking a bunch of trees isn't a noteworthy feat. Either way, Bunta took one head on and only had some bruises/scratches. Bunta is not as durable as Jiraiya is. Not when Jiraiya outright tanked that yak's charge with no damage.

These toads are not taking Nagato out. Stop it. It's pure nonsense to think that Nagato in his own body loses to 3 toad summons when restricted of only Deva Path. Putting aside all weaponry, let's not forget the fact that Asura Path Nagato would physically manhandle each and every summon if it came to CQC.

He can't counter Frog Song

Doesn't need to considering Jiraiya will be a dead man before Frog Song ever gets off. The only strategy you have that even comes close to working is him running away from Asura's attacks.

Okay, maybe they can be spammed. Still they can only be used in short bursts (like every other rocket) and don't allow Nagato to coordinated flight like Onoki and Muu until he gets feats of him doing so.

He doesn't need coordinated flight to evade the toads attacks when Deva Path was dancing around the toads attacks with basic foot speed.

I hope you are not saying Asura Path can solo any form of Jiraiya. And ok. I was wrong about four missiles being his limit. And ok. Maybe the toad army isn't enough. But Jiraiya can win this. And it's definitely not a stomp.

.......Is this Asura Path vs. Jiraiya? Or Edo Nagato vs. Jiraiya? :lol. That should answer this question.

 

[Apêx1]

There's also this

You must be registered for see images

Still waiting for someone to explain how this is dodged/survived.

 

[DrProof]

Still waiting for someone to explain how this is dodged/survived.

It isn't you fool.

 

[Apêx1]

It isn't you fool.

You must be registered for see images