Venomous Cobra
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Luffy negs most of them except for law in g4, we are just discussing wether they push him to g4 difficulty.
I think that most people are saying g2/3 luffy mid diffs sanii, even though believe it's high diff
[Discussion] is g4 needed to beat zoro?
- Thread starter Venomous Cobra
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I think that most people are saying g2/3 luffy mid diffs sanii, even though believe it's high diff
ZoroXTashigi
Member
Luffy never beat Hancock, it the opposite, Hancock one shot Luffy when he tried to run.
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Not sure about striking speed but Luffy's base reaction speed feats absolutely dwarf Zoro's unless you want to include his plothole FTL reactions pre time skip vs Kuma. Destructive Capacity is immensely in Luffy's favor as well. His King Kong Gun was calced at 1.5 gigatons. That's small island level. Zoro's greatest feat in the series' history was his Daisen Sekai against Pica which doesn't even remotely compare.
ZoroXTashigi
Member
Hancock - G4 high diff
Law - G4 mid diff
Zoro - G2/3 extreme diff
Jinbei - G2/3 high diff
Sanji - G2/3 high diff
Law - G4 mid diff
Zoro - G2/3 extreme diff
Jinbei - G2/3 high diff
Sanji - G2/3 high diff
That calculation of KKG has already be proven to be wrong. Regardless anyway, i was talking about g2/3 Luffy, not g4. And how is Zoro dodging Kuma's pad cannons a plot hole? Zoro's reaction speed has always been portrayed to be great especially when using his toro nagashi ever since against Hatchan. I also even forgot to add that Zoro has better range combat. His most destructive attacks not only have great range but are faster to cast or spam(making them hard to dodge) and that's without counting Asura
Elephant gun = 199kilotons
Elephant Gatling Gun = 2.32Megatons
I don't find the calculation of grizzly magnum, but at best it's 2times as strong as an elephant gun(398kilotons)
On the other side, we have
1080Pound Cannon = 748kilotons
Sanzen Sekai = 11.5 Megatons
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chopstickchakra
Active member
I was mixing up moments, I was thinking it was Hancock Luffy beat and saw the mark on her back.
Oh, puh-lease, dude. The KKG VSBW calc has not been debunked and even if it had it is unarguably around Island level. No matter how hard you try to low-ball or tamper with the data the fact remains the same; it *dwarfed* all hell out of every DC feat Zoro has and by a wide margin. Why are you arguing semantics? That statement was blasphemous.
Next, that doesn't make any sense. Regardless of how impressive Zoro's reaction speed is (which is only even considered impressive by OP power scaling) he was not even MHS pre time skip. His greatest feat at that point was a Mach 13 speed feat in Skypeia. Light moves at around Mach 880,000. He wasn't even tangibly in that realm of speed. Blitzing LS was utterly impossible for him. If him having FTL reactions now makes sense to you then you are simply off your rocker, let alone back at Thriller Bark. Furthermore, he's had no feat even remotely close to that one before or since. A complete outlier. How can you honestly sit here and try to defend this?
As I said, Luffy's reactions blitz Zoro's at base unless you count that single nonsensical outlier feat that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense from any standpoint except a biased one.
His DC eclipses Zoro's as well. If you were referring to Gears 2nd/3rd Luffy you should have made that clearer.
And about all of this "Asura" business, it's a technique not a form. You say it as if Zoro has an entire new moveset at his fingertips or something. If you do believe this then its just wishful thinking considering that wasn't what it was before. Just one technique. No, Sanji isn't the same. Even pts we saw different techniques at Sabody with Diamble jambe. It was always versatile so it isn't far fetched that Sanji has an entirely new moveset with it. Zoro, even at Sabody, used the same one technique.
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I'm not trying to low ball anything. Hence why i didn't talk much about it, hence why i said that even if it was island level like you claim, it didn't matter since i was comparing Zoro's destructive capacity to g2/3 Luffy's. Because i forgot to explicitely mention it doesn't mean i wasn't. Hence why i said i expected Asura to be close to even g4 or that Chinjao who fought g2/3 Luffy. Everything in that paragraph screams around the fact that i was comparing Zoro to g2/3 Luffy except a mistake of mine of not directly adding that by the start of my sentence to the point that someone lacking common sense failed to notice
But if you want, here is the link of the energy scaling:
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If you go through it, you'd realize you won't see the KKG's calculations. It's because it has not been accepted in another forum
For G2/3 like i've said we have
Elephant gun = 199kilotons
Elephant Gatling Gun = 2.32Megatons
I don't find the calculation of grizzly magnum, but at best it's 2times as strong as an elephant gun(398kilotons)
On the other side, we have
1080Pound Cannon = 748kilotons
Sanzen Sekai = 11.5 Megatons
Concerning reaction speed, to each their own. Zoro has never been blitzed since the timeskip, so i'm not even sure what makes you so sure that Luffy is better in reaction. If i wanted to, i'd also say any reaction speed feat that Luffy has is incoherant. Facts speak louders than words
If you're going to claim a calculation is flawed or has been "debunked" you ought to bring your own accurate calc or address specifically what and where is flawed. Appealing to authority, one of he worst logical fallacies one can commit IMO. Just because ODB didn't accept or even read it doesn't mean anything. I went over the calculation myself and I fail to see any problem. Unless you're going to explain to me how it is flawed you have no argument there, buddy. "Facts speak louder than words" Ha, you've got some nerve spouting that line.
And no, you couldn't say that about Luffy's reaction speed. It has always been consistent from pre time skip. He even has two extremely similar liquid and gas explosion feats at base that were casually executed in the span of merely two arcs. There is nothing incoherent about Luffy's reaction speed feats. I have the calcs prepared if you would really like to debate this.
I lack common sense? Says the one who thinks a character moving at Mach 20 max is logically capable of FTL movement?
Also, Asura isn't some sort of performance enhancing mode with a new moveset. It's a single technique. I addressed it in my edit of my last post. You say to bring facts but you've done the exact opposite. Provided fan theories and bias speculation. Did you really just try to use the fact that Zoro hasn't been speed blitzed yet to defend FTL movement in Sabody? Lol, he's facing off against characters that are more than a million times slower than that. No, that isn't a hyperbole. Please, give me one single opponent Zoro has ever faced that was at least Mach 100. Please do. You are clearly a big a fan of Zoro's but no, his feat is downright ridiculous and one of a kind. Never seen since or before. Completely random and, as you put it, incoherent.
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What a joke comparing Luffy's strength to Zoro's in the same category.
Zoro uses a cutting action which reduces friction by a sharp blade and deals damage by cutting. Luffy is raw power and goes for knock out and internal damage.
Do you think it takes the same amount of energy to cut a steak with a knife or to punch it in half ?
Zoro uses a cutting action which reduces friction by a sharp blade and deals damage by cutting. Luffy is raw power and goes for knock out and internal damage.
Do you think it takes the same amount of energy to cut a steak with a knife or to punch it in half ?
I didn't try to explain the mistake in the calculation because once again it wasn't even the point, so stop using g4 feats since it wasn't the point. Regardless if it's island level or not anyway i already know g4 delivers greater destructive feats than anything Zoro showed so far, hence why i didn't even try to compare Zoro to it. You're the only one putting words in my mouth
As for the reaction speed difference, once again putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying that since Zoro has not been blitzed since the timeskip, how are you so sure if Luffy has better reactions? You may call the dodging of pad cannons feats an outlier, but then ask yourself this. If it was really an outlier, why did Oda hype the speed of those pad cannons only for Zoro to dodge it the page after? Or do you think that while writing it, Oda forgot the hype he made the page before? Don't be so stupid lol
As for Asura, it's complete name is
Kiki Kyutoryu: Asura (鬼気 九刀流 阿修羅 Kiki Kyūtōryū: Ashura?, literally meaning "Demon Spirit Nine Sword Style: Asura")
Note it's talking about a Nine Sword Style, just like Itoryu(1sword style), Nitoryu(2swords style), Santoryu(3swords style)
And in the style in question, Zoro already showed 2 different Asura techniques
Asura Ichibugin
Asura Makyusen
Even 3 if we count the movie
Hence why i said it depends on how Oda will decide to develop it. He can perfectly make it a mode or a finisher
As for the reaction speed difference, once again putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying that since Zoro has not been blitzed since the timeskip, how are you so sure if Luffy has better reactions? You may call the dodging of pad cannons feats an outlier, but then ask yourself this. If it was really an outlier, why did Oda hype the speed of those pad cannons only for Zoro to dodge it the page after? Or do you think that while writing it, Oda forgot the hype he made the page before? Don't be so stupid lol
As for Asura, it's complete name is
Kiki Kyutoryu: Asura (鬼気 九刀流 阿修羅 Kiki Kyūtōryū: Ashura?, literally meaning "Demon Spirit Nine Sword Style: Asura")
Note it's talking about a Nine Sword Style, just like Itoryu(1sword style), Nitoryu(2swords style), Santoryu(3swords style)
And in the style in question, Zoro already showed 2 different Asura techniques
Asura Ichibugin
Asura Makyusen
Even 3 if we count the movie
Hence why i said it depends on how Oda will decide to develop it. He can perfectly make it a mode or a finisher
@Bogard Let me get this straight you think Luffy needs G4 to beat Zoro but he can beat Law without G4? Also correct me if I'm wrong but you're not claiming those pad cannons were light speed right, just that they were very fast and emphasis was put on them?
Black Mamba
Active member
Re: what difficulty does luffy best these characters
Law - Luffy high diff
Jinbei - Luffy mid-high diff
Sanji - Luffy mid diff
Hancock - Luffy mid diff
....all this is without using G4
Zoro - Luffy very high diff
Law - Luffy high diff
Jinbei - Luffy mid-high diff
Sanji - Luffy mid diff
Hancock - Luffy mid diff
....all this is without using G4
I still believe G4 isn't an absolute necessity for Luffy atm. Unless Zoro or Law can replicate
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I don't think Luffy would use it but it would definitely help. I don't think G2 haki attacks will be tickling Law and Zoro.You're just contradicting yourself at this point, m8. You claim Gear 4th isn't relevant to your argument to which I've already admitted that I mistakenly replied thinking you were referring to it but for some reason you are actively engaging me in an argument concerning Gear 4th.
"That calculation of KKG has been proven wrong already". Followed by your ramblings which are basically synonymous for "but it doesn't matter though." Next you provide a link for yet another rebuttal to Gear 4th being island level. If it's so irrelevant to your argument and you wish not to discuss it why are you actively trying to debunk my arguments? You're not making any sense.
How am I sure Luffy has better reactions? Really? Zoro has no comparable feats except for that ridiculous outlier. The better question is how couldn't you be sure Luffy has better reactions? That is clear bias. Out of every feat of Zoro's in the entire series you choose this one ridiculous outlier as the entire basis of arguing the very possibility of Zoro having superior reaction speed. This entire thing you're doing is just silly.
Oh God, you've abandoned all forms of logic and reason. Just a second ago you were mentioning calculations and providing data and now all of a sudden none of that matters anymore because of Oda's intentions that you somehow know. As Rikerslade once put it, "Oda must reply to your SBS questions privately", m8. The exact same mathematically indisputable brand of evidence you were trying to bring to the table is now being tossed aside because it is no longer beneficial to your argument. Thus your argument is invalid. You are going to truly impressive lengths to deny that the Roronoa Zoro has a feat that is nothing but Oda doing whatever the f*ck he wants too. But that's okay, because we all know what he's really capable of. The bias is still unwarranted and makes you come off as obnoxious.
You can continue to call me names and sling insults you've already made it blatantly clear that you are incapable of sustaining any kind of argument without doing so. I admit, Oda can go either way with Asura but it wasn't really that important either way. The point was that Zoro's feat was complete bull and Luffy's reaction speed > his.
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lelerskates
Banned
Show me one fight post timeskip where zoro actually got serious in a fight. I'll wait...
That's like me bragging about beating someone in basketball when they are playing casually and im putting all of my effort into it.
And shut up about all of this nothing had been debunked bullshit. Are you seriously sitting there and trying to tell me your mathematical calculations based on an imaginary world actually means something? Why don't you put that energy into playing some sports or getting some fresh air outside because you sound like you need it.
G4 is needed to beat Zoro and thats IF he can even beat him. Just because Luffy is the main character doesn't make him automatically stronger than Zoro. Zoro even has the advantages because of his swords.
It would be extreme diff either way.
And here comes the irrational Zoro wankers. Well, since your reading comprehension is almost as shit as your manga comprehension I ought to explain these things in a way that your tiny, tiny, pea-brain would be able to understand.
Zoro's greatest feat was 11.5 MT which is nearly 100x less destructive than Luffy in Gear 4th. Please, with his current feats your beloved Zoro gets low-mid diffed by Gear 4th. This entire thread has come to that extremely obvious consensus. Only with extremely generous Asura wank would he reach high diff. Extreme? Not on your life. You're the sole fap-boy who, according to his fanatical fantasies, believes Zoro can even attempt to combat Gear 4th. Also, simply because you're brain-dead and unable to do simple math doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat. You simply wish to deny the validity of calculations because you either A) cannot understand them, or B) they make your hero Zoro look bad. Either way it doesn't matter because your argument is ill of holes much like your brain.
Further more, you have almost triple as many posts on here as I do and while knowing nothing about me has claimed I have no life solely because I debunked your favored claim concerning a manga you like. Which one of use has no life? Lol, please go cry in your corner over Zoro's lack of feats. He is factually weaker than Luffy and everyone knows it.
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Portgas D Xatch
Member
If luffy was to fight his friends I believe it would play put like this ....
Zoro, a very straight forward fight, Zoro is great bo doubt about that, and to some degree luffy is at a disadvantage against any capable swordsman, since his ability has no advantage against cutting weapons. So that means it's down to haki ..and well luffy is just going to be better than zoro, it may take him to g4.but he wins
Trafgar law...this opponent will give luffy the most trouble in the world of brains and df ability...law is 10x smarter than luffy and would fight twords that advantage..but he will lose in haki and endurance...laws abilities take too much of a toll and luffy does have that all important plot armor that gets him through anything.
Jinbe is tricky since we don't know completely what he's capable of, but since he doesn't have a df the fight will come down to physical skill and luffy currently has no equal on that front .
Sanji is tricky, it's implied he's on Zoro's level...but besides vinsion haki, he has an advantage against against luffy's body with his fire based attacks, that plus flight and speed is a problem, but only a minor one, luffy wins w/o g4
Hancock isn't worth mentioning
Zoro, a very straight forward fight, Zoro is great bo doubt about that, and to some degree luffy is at a disadvantage against any capable swordsman, since his ability has no advantage against cutting weapons. So that means it's down to haki ..and well luffy is just going to be better than zoro, it may take him to g4.but he wins
Trafgar law...this opponent will give luffy the most trouble in the world of brains and df ability...law is 10x smarter than luffy and would fight twords that advantage..but he will lose in haki and endurance...laws abilities take too much of a toll and luffy does have that all important plot armor that gets him through anything.
Jinbe is tricky since we don't know completely what he's capable of, but since he doesn't have a df the fight will come down to physical skill and luffy currently has no equal on that front .
Sanji is tricky, it's implied he's on Zoro's level...but besides vinsion haki, he has an advantage against against luffy's body with his fire based attacks, that plus flight and speed is a problem, but only a minor one, luffy wins w/o g4
Hancock isn't worth mentioning