Edo Hiruzen vs Obito

[Lord Tywin]

^^^^^Coming from this niga[

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This fuckstick please tell me how Hiruzen would get enma out of genjutsu when Obito is pressuring them? The moment Enma is summoned he'll be under genjutsu with Obito being right up Hiruzen's ass

Lmao so they have no time when they are together?

not when Enma isn't summoned in his staff form, and has to transform.

How do they get overpowered? They are too versatile (when allowed Kohona jutsus and Hiden) to get wacked around.

Even if Hiruzen uses suiton with all of his clones their techniques get overpowered, as Obito's katon is far superior. Obito can also use Kamui to get behind Hiruzen while he's busy countering Katon and use another Katon from behind

What difference? Mind as well said Hiruzen since isn't separated with Enma. He is using him as a weapon.

Emma has to transform first

Your reading is garbage: I-r-r-e-l-e-v-a-n-t

*sigh* your dumbass said kage level ninjas have ways to counter genjutsu, and I named some kage level ninjas falling to sharingan genjutsu.

but let's drop the genjutsu argument, as Obito isn't a genjutsu type of fighter

So you decide not to read, twice? Do I need to remove quotes?:

"Not that it matters when physical contact needs to be made for Kamui, which Shadow Possession craps on[

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] and Shadow Clone Feint. "

"I dont need to elaborate on Shadow Clones (apparently I do), which was basically canon. But Shadow Possession outright shows it doesnt overlap Kamui[

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]. Therefore once bind, the fight's over. "

The different Hiruzen clone and everyone else is that he has jutsus that Kamui can't overlap against. Ino clan And Shikimaru clan. They dont overlap his physical body, so it will work when it connects.

1. He doesn't need to wrap with Kamui to win
sll of hiruzen's techniques are phased through with Kamui
3. Kamui shits on shadow possession with teleportation
Yamanaka clan techniques require Hiruzen to focus. Not to mention Obito shat on it in manga
read your dumbass arguments and tell me why I should take them seriously?

 

[KidGamer65]

-Clones are useless since Obito will know they are clones, and won't try to warp any of them. He'd just kill them in ghost mode CQC with shurikens or other ninja tools.

-Diversionary tactics are good and all, but what attack does Hiruzen have that Obito can't react to in time to go intangible?

-How is Juubi Sized Katon blocked or overpowered?

Once clones are out of the picture, Obito can just phase through all of Hiruzen's attacks, get up in his face and genjutsu him, then rip his soul out with Human path.

-This assumes that Obito has the capability to run through Hiruzen's clones like they are fodder, but he can't. Any widespread elemental jutsu forces them to go ghost mode entirely, meaning Hiruzen is completely safe from the incoming attack. Then that assumes that he can dominate them with his Shuriken and Ninja Tools when in reality Hiruzen would effortlessly block all of them with Enma or his own Shuriken spam. The only way his clones die like this is if they stay and try to kill Obito in CQC despite none of their attacks working.

-There is no "react in time". It's automatic until he turns it off to warp. And like I said, Mind Body Control hits him regardless of Kamui or not.

-All his clones using Suiton blocks Katon.

 

[Lord Tywin]

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It won't work with Obito having intel on Yamanaka techniques, and knowing their posture when they execute their technique. Obito would start moving around which means Hiruzen would be in risk of missing Obito, and thus Obito one shotting Hiruzen

 

[BlacLord™]

Location: [

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Distance: Reasonable

Intel: Manga.

Conditions: Hiurzen can use DB4 via All Konoha Element and Hiden as feats.

Restrictions: Summoning Gedo Statue

Databook 4 said that he had mastery over the five basic natures. The only mention of Hiden in his section was tied in with the statement about knowing of most ninjutsu, not being able to use them. The Hiden bit was special because Hiden are usually secret techniques, so Hiruzen knowing of their existence is notable.

Anyway, you should have restricted Kamui. Then Hiruzen would have a decent chance.

 

[KidGamer65]

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1. Hiruzen>>>>>Ino when it comes to power.
2. He only needs to hit him long enough to inflict some kind of wound.

 

[Zexion~]

Aren't Obito's body parts transported to the dimension for him to become intangable...meaning if he uses it on his head his mind wouldn't be there to hit anymore?

Unless I misinterpreted the trash chapter.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Even if Hiruzen uses suiton with all of his clones their techniques get overpowered, as Obito's katon is far superior. Obito can also use Kamui to get behind Hiruzen while he's busy countering Katon and use another Katon from behind

Doubt it will take out 3 layers Hiruzen's Suiton as Obito's Katon lost focused power(capable of breaking floor) to making it wide range focus (unable to break debris) by feats.

No Obito cant leave behind Katon and have it continue while he does it again from behind, what kind fan fic is that. 2.) I said contributed with clones. 3.) Hiruzen can sense/track chakra signatures.

but let's drop the genjutsu argument, as Obito isn't a genjutsu type of fighter

So you wrote all that just to waste both of our time.

1. He doesn't need to wrap with Kamui to win
sll of hiruzen's techniques are phased through with Kamui
3. Kamui shits on shadow possession with teleportation
Yamanaka clan techniques require Hiruzen to focus. Not to mention Obito shat on it in manga
read your dumbass arguments and tell me why I should take them seriously?

Nope, only the ones that overlaps his physical body.
Irrelevant, Hiruzen wins by analyzing how Kamui works and strategies on connecting what works.
Except I never said anything about Hiurzen blindly using this jutsu without a plan to finish him. I only mention it that it works against Kamui, you think makes him untouchable.

3rd time you showed me you dont bother to read, and I should be offended by your insults? Please

 

[LuckyMan]

Databook 4 said that he had mastery over the five basic natures. The only mention of Hiden in his section was tied in with the statement about knowing of most ninjutsu, not being able to use them. The Hiden bit was special because Hiden are usually secret techniques, so Hiruzen knowing of their existence is notable.

Anyway, you should have restricted Kamui. Then Hiruzen would have a decent chance.

Regardless of what the DB specifically said, it's true Hiruzen can use all the leaf techniques.

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The translation I read says specifically at a young age he had more talent than Tobirama and he could use all Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Hiden techniques in this village.

 

[Tera Path]

Stopped reading all of the posts after like the 12th post, but I'd like to point out something important which seemingly everyone in the Base never brings up.
It doesn't matter much if someone can break out of a genjutsu because of a partner, they will still be caught for a few seconds, and for Obito those few seconds should be plenty to stab Hiruzen with a chakra rod or 2.

And why the hell are you using shadow possession as an argument? It's a KKG, or, are you giving Hiruzen all of the Leaf Village's KKGs now? If you do that, you might as well give him FTG and wood style and say he shits on Obito.

 

[LuckyMan]

Stopped reading all of the posts after like the 12th post, but I'd like to point out something important which seemingly everyone in the Base never brings up.
It doesn't matter much if someone can break out of a genjutsu because of a partner, they will still be caught for a few seconds, and for Obito those few seconds should be plenty to stab Hiruzen with a chakra rod or 2.

And why the hell are you using shadow possession as an argument? It's a KKG, or, are you giving Hiruzen all of the Leaf Village's KKGs now? If you do that, you might as well give him FTG and wood style and say he shits on Obito.

That moment when you realize Shadow Possession is no KKG.......

 

[BlacLord™]

Regardless of what the DB specifically said, it's true Hiruzen can use all the leaf techniques.

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The translation I read says specifically at a young age he had more talent than Tobirama and he could use all Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Hiden techniques in this village.

The same very early manga stage that stated he was still the strongest current Kage and strongest Hokage? I think I'll pass on antiquated hype that was retconned by the recent databook and much later manga reveals.

That translation was wrong. The DB stated he showed more potential in using the five basic natures, compared to Tobirama and that he was highly proficient with them. It doesn't even count for much that he had more potential in that area anyway, since Tobirama was a specialist in Space-Time Ninjutsu and general ninjutsu.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Databook 4 said that he had mastery over the five basic natures. The only mention of Hiden in his section was tied in with the statement about knowing of most ninjutsu, not being able to use them. The Hiden bit was special because Hiden are usually secret techniques, so Hiruzen knowing of their existence is notable.

Thats not what I read. The page I read gave made it in a form of a list of things.

Anyway, you should have restricted Kamui. Then Hiruzen would have a decent chance.

Nope dont need to. Hiruzen counters it.

 

[Lord Tywin]

1. Hiruzen>>>>>Ino when it comes to power.
2. He only needs to hit him long enough to inflict some kind of wound.

Hiruzen>>>Ino overall, but in using techniques unique to Ino's clan? I doubt it. There is a factor of Kyuubi's chakra in the second scan, which Ino could still only increase her time on Obito.
Obito knows the posture a mind transfer user takes before executing their techniques. He'd know Hiruzen is goint to use mind transfer technique. Obito would start moving around to make Hiruzen miss him.

Doubt it will take out 3 layers Hiruzen's Suiton as Obito's Katon lost focused power(capable of breaking floor) to making it wide range focus (unable to break debris) by feats.

Hiruzen's suiton blocking Obito's giant ass Katon? not to mention Hiruzen's suiton is pretty unfocused too

No Obito cant leave behind Katon and have it continue while he does it again from behind, what kind fan fic is that. 2.) I said contributed with clones. 3.) Hiruzen can sense/track chakra signatures.

what?
Obito uses his huge katon, then the moment he's done he'd teleport behind Hiruzen.
2. With clones he'd still get shitted on
3. He can sense Kamui while trying to counter Obito's katon, when Karin, a far better sensor than Hiruzen couldn't sense Sasuke getting wrapped inside of Jinton? sounds legit

So you wrote all that just to waste both of our time.

Hiruzen can get caught by genjutsu

Nope, only the ones that overlaps his physical body.
Irrelevant, Hiruzen wins by analyzing how Kamui works and strategies on connecting what works.
Except I never said anything about Hiurzen blindly using this jutsu without a plan to finish him. I only mention it that it works against Kamui, you think makes him untouchable.

3rd time you showed me you dont bother to read, and I should be offended by your insults? Please

Kakashi analyzed how it worked, and his solution was Kamui. Kakashi analyzed it and his solution was Kamui. Minato analyzed it and his solution was FTG lvl2. Minato's reaction speed and striking speed>>>Hiruzen. KCM Naruto clones>>Hiruzen clones, yet they all were destroyed effortlessly.
Kamui makes Obito untouchable against slower opponents, which Hiruzen is one of them.

 

[LuckyMan]

The same very early manga stage that stated he was still the strongest current Kage and strongest Hokage? I think I'll pass on antiquated hype that was retconned by the recent databook and much later manga reveals.

That translation was wrong. The DB stated he showed more potential in using the five basic natures, compared to Tobirama and that he was highly proficient with them. It doesn't even count for much that he had more potential in that area anyway, since Tobirama was a specialist in Space-Time Ninjutsu and general ninjutsu.

Then go get the translation.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Hiruzen's suiton blocking Obito's giant ass Katon? not to mention Hiruzen's suiton is pretty unfocused too

Yup, lets not overate it as I mention, it lost focus of power for wider spread.

Read manga? When Suiton is form into a stream, its focus. And base on the collision of between Zetsu and his. But this time its being used as a wall ([

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]<- wiki is using DB description)

what?
Obito uses his huge katon, then the moment he's done he'd teleport behind Hiruzen.
2. With clones he'd still get shitted on
3. He can sense Kamui while trying to counter Obito's katon, when Karin, a far better sensor than Hiruzen couldn't sense Sasuke getting wrapped inside of Jinton? sounds legit

Ok lol and the moment Obito is done Hiruzen's clones are done, point?
2. Baseless. Whats Obito going to do that will crap on them?
3. Yup, still an off screen feat isnt valid. Unless you want to say an inferior sensor, Fuu, shouldnt have replicated such a feat. Quit the wank.

Hiruzen can get caught by genjutsu

Zero factor. But its nice to know.

Kakashi analyzed how it worked, and his solution was Kamui. Kakashi analyzed it and his solution was Kamui. Minato analyzed it and his solution was FTG lvl2. Minato's reaction speed and striking speed>>>Hiruzen. KCM Naruto clones>>Hiruzen clones, yet they all were destroyed effortlessly.
Kamui makes Obito untouchable against slower opponents, which Hiruzen is one of them.

Minato having better reaction speed is not relevant(even though Hiruzen almost dodged mindless Juubito, which is impressive) @Bold also not relevant, unless you want to claim everyone Obito face has to have Minato's strike speed. GL with that since Manga proves that wrong.

KCM clones being superior is not relevant, since KCM doesn't have the same abilities as Hiruzen (which are more useful against Obito) @Underline Proof that clones were destroyed effortlessly? It was one that was used as a decoy.

@Italic, Base on Guy, nope. Base Guy outright proves you dont need to move KCM or Minato level. Obito = Kakashi (base on physical stats when they fought) Orochimaru is superior or = to. Hiruzen can keep up with that, plus Edo being able to almost move away from Juubito engaging him.

 

[Tera Path]

That moment when you realize Shadow Possession is no KKG.......

I refuse to believe.
Proof pls

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I refuse to believe.
Proof pls

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[Lord Tywin]

Yup, lets not overate it as I mention, it lost focus of power for wider spread.

Read manga? When Suiton is form into a stream, its focus. And base on the collision of between Zetsu and his. But this time its being used as a wall ([

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]<- wiki is using DB description)

The same suiton gets overpowered by the greater power of Obito's katon. Obito would break he water wall with ease. By feats Hiruzen can't generate more than what he produced against SZ, which is small compare to what Obito did. Hiruzen can make his water wall focused or not :lol but they get blasted through it

Ok lol and the moment Obito is done Hiruzen's clones are done, point?
2. Baseless. Whats Obito going to do that will crap on them?
3. Yup, still an off screen feat isnt valid. Unless you want to say an inferior sensor, Fuu, shouldnt have replicated such a feat. Quit the wank.

The fire doesn't end in the instance that Obito stops spitting fire. Look at the distance between head of the fire to its tail. It's huge

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Obito is fast enough to teleport behind that before Hiruzen is done doing whatever you think he can do to katon.
Obito can kill the clones with giant ass shurikens or another burst of katon.
What the actual ****? Obito didn't travel to Kamui world against Fuu as he did when he saved Sasuke. It's fact that he saved Sasuke before Karin could detect his chakra, which speaks of Obito's speed when he actually tries to do something fast. FOH with it being off screen. Dumbass says I'm the one wanking when he's comparing Hiruzen's sensory abilities to that of a sensor from Yamanaka clan, a clan specializing in sensing. And thinking he can detect Obito popping on his ass when Karin, a far better sensor couldn't.

Zero factor. But its nice to know.

isn't?

Minato having better reaction speed is not relevant(even though Hiruzen almost dodged mindless Juubito, which is impressive) @Bold also not relevant, unless you want to claim everyone Obito face has to have Minato's strike speed. GL with that since Manga proves that wrong.

Let me make it simple for you, since you're having a hard time understanding a simple concept.
If you can't bypass Obito's reaction speed, you can't beat him. Hiruzen can't in a million years.

KCM clones being superior is not relevant, since KCM doesn't have the same abilities as Hiruzen (which are more useful against Obito) @Underline Proof that clones were destroyed effortlessly? It was one that was used as a decoy.

Not that Naruto's KCM clones>>>>>Hiruzen's
Not that Obito can counter whatever Hiruzen and his clones can throw at him with absolute ease. Including Mind Transfer and Shadow possession. Already explained, so go read again

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Please don't even come again with the notion of Hiruzen providing any kind of challenge to Obito

@Italic, Base on Guy, nope. Base Guy outright proves you dont need to move KCM or Minato level. Obito = Kakashi (base on physical stats when they fought) Orochimaru is superior or = to. Hiruzen can keep up with that, plus Edo being able to almost move away from Juubito engaging him.

Base Gai's striking speed>Minato and KCM Naruto. Obito is never =Kakashi. Obito takes a creamy shit on him if serious. If even Kakashi is, by your logic, the only reason is because of Kamui. Hiruzen doesn't have shit on Obito. Accept it man.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

The same suiton gets overpowered by the greater power of Obito's katon. Obito would break he water wall with ease. By feats Hiruzen can't generate more than what he produced against SZ, which is small compare to what Obito did. Hiruzen can make his water wall focused or not :lol but they get blasted through it

No feat suggest it does. Being "big" doesn't support your claim that it will. It went right pass 1tail Kurama cloak and couldn't even break apart debris from the ground like a concentrated C rank Katon could.

The fire doesn't end in the instance that Obito stops spitting fire. Look at the distance between head of the fire to its tail. It's huge

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Nope no evidence for that. A flame thrower is put out when the user stops it. A fireball jutsu is what continues without the user needing to continuously release it.

Obito is fast enough to teleport behind that before Hiruzen is done doing whatever you think he can do to katon.

Nope, no evidence.

Obito can kill the clones with giant ass shurikens or another burst of katon.

Not when they can counter it with his own giants ass shurikens coded with elements, which will multiply more then his. Or repealed by Enma, even though they are avoidable. Bursting another katon from that range you put him against Hiruzens is a lost against his own elements. Plus the fact he will have someone waiting from him underground.

What the actual ****? Obito didn't travel to Kamui world against Fuu as he did when he saved Sasuke. It's fact that he saved Sasuke before Karin could detect his chakra, which speaks of Obito's speed when he actually tries to do something fast. FOH with it being off screen. Dumbass says I'm the one wanking when he's comparing Hiruzen's sensory abilities to that of a sensor from Yamanaka clan, a clan specializing in sensing. And thinking he can detect Obito popping on his ass when Karin, a far better sensor couldn't.

Dont matter how you interpret it, its still slower[

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] so quit the crying and the wank. Having Obito warp to Hiruzen is a lost. Can't differentiate clones and physically touching him means he get bind via Nara Clan. Can't wait until you show me stating "Hiruzen's sensory abilities to Yamanaka". Like I litteraly only brought that up to further helps his reaction just like any sensor in the manga does compare to a non sensor.

isn't?

Mhm

Let me make it simple for you, since you're having a hard time understanding a simple concept.
If you can't bypass Obito's reaction speed, you can't beat him. Hiruzen can't in a million years.

Let me make this simple for you. Stop the wank. Everyone here is aware Obito can react to Hiruzen moveset. But the only way Obito can take out Edo Hiruzen is sending them to Kamui world (physical touch) and Chakra rods (still needs physical encounter). Which works perfectly for Hiruzen.

Not that Naruto's KCM clones>>>>>Hiruzen's
Not that Obito can counter whatever Hiruzen and his clones can throw at him with absolute ease. Including Mind Transfer and Shadow possession. Already explained, so go read again

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Please don't even come again with the notion of Hiruzen providing any kind of challenge to Obito

-Repeating a irrelevant point isn't going to make you more right. Does Naruto have jutsu that can bypass Kamui? Nope. Does Hiruzen? Yup. I can make a list of reason why bringing up KCM Naruto encounter is irrelevant.
-I already explained Shadow possession usage above.
-Since you thought these scans are relevant. Please explain what I already know about these scans. A shadow clone decoy, slipping through Obito whopty-doo. Hiruzen's clone dont go out by a swap.

The only scan I find relevant in this match up is this[

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], which Base Guy, KCM Naruto, and MS Kakashi (Fuu and Torune) all have different physical stats proves its not relevant when attempting to counter Kamui.

Base Gai's striking speed>Minato and KCM Naruto. Obito is never =Kakashi. Obito takes a creamy shit on him if serious. If even Kakashi is, by your logic, the only reason is because of Kamui. Hiruzen doesn't have shit on Obito. Accept it man.

Again not relevant who you think is inferior/superior in these stat category. If its superior then Orochimaru physical stats then you have no argument to claim its one sided. No evidence that he can overpower Kakashi physically, just like Kamui world so they are = in physical states, overall with jutsu is not relevant to my point. Now you just need to accept that the only argument you can provide of Obito's victory is what I already mentioned above. 1. Suck him into Kamui world or 2) Pin him down with chakra rods.

 

[BLAZE]

Obito whoops his ass