Unorthodox vs Beans2

[EZQ]

Dear god what have i done?

Did i really offer to judge this? Beans vs Unorthodox? Hell i hate wallies.

It'll take me a long time, lol.

 

[Beans2]

Spoiler

Thanks but no thanks im just going to make a reply my 2nd post is going to be leaps inbounds better than this

Going against your own Disciple is heart hurting but sometimes you got to put them in there place.

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Nothing to say here.

While the Gokage is trying to set up this combination Nagato summons his Rinnegan Summonings to start off the battle while taking flight and getting his distance, With the combination of Deva's levitation and Asura path's Rocket boots

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→

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this basically gives Nagato flight in the scan of Madara we saw him Bijuu height when levitated he can get much higher as Deva path has already shown when he used Chou Shira Tensei on the Leaf Village. Madara was shown to have decent speed when using Deva abilties as flight, Nagato using the same technique in conjunction with Rocket boost give him better flight ability and would increase his speed and mobility.

Not saying Nagato can't take flight this way. There's still plenty of issues with this paragraph. First off, Madara definitely didn't use a Rinnegan ability to levitate to Matatabi's height since he didn't have the Rinnegan. It should be obvious he jumped, especially when jumping to a bijuu level height is nothing special for ninja of that caliber. Examples below:

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If Nagato goes airborne this way, he won't be very fast or have coordinated flight. His Deva ability wasn't shown to do anything except let him

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like a balloon. Asura's rockets can give him a little mobility, but its speed is nothing special considering he was

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, and on top of that there's no proof that they can be used continuously since those rockets likely can only be used in short bursts due to needing a recharge time (like all of Asura's missiles.)

The fact that Nagato can fly is not helpful against a whole team that can fly and is faster than him in the air.

Mei and Gaara's sand and hidden mist jutsu only makes them protected from Nagato's sensory abilities while the others Tsunade,A,Onoki are sensed easily due to different chakra identities Nagato having 4 different faces

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along with sharing vision with his summonings 2 of which can fly, The bird stays strictly in the air to cover his blind spot the top of his head.

Wrong because Nagato would only be sensing the chakra in the mist and sand around him, which blocks off the chakra signatures of his opponents unless they come very near him.

The bugs have a different chakra signature than the

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, but the wide scale bug jamming blocked the Mist shinobi's sensing so he couldn't sense anyone below him. If we go by your logic, Kakashi would have been able to see the other Edo ninja swordsmen through Hidden Mist with his sharingan because they have different chakra signatures than Zabuza (the one producing the mist), but he didn't see them. Shared vision is useless due to mist obscuring their vision.

Disconnecting him from his animals would only work if he was caught in the mist with flight he evades it all together.
Not sure if serious with jamming Nagato's sensory abilities with a technique called Bug jamming logically meaning that only a shinobi of ,Aburame Ichizoku clan can use that ability. Add the fact none of the Gokage has shown that ability and this is how it is utilized.

So no this is not happening.

Actually, it is. Bug jamming is spreading thousands of tiny bugs everywhere which confuses sensors because the bugs' chakra interferes with the chakra of the targets. Now we all know Gaara's sand contains chakra. So Gaara spreads his

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, (something he can do for miles in every direction) and the chakra in the millions of individual grains of sand block chakra sensing similar to how the thousands bugs do it. All Nagato would be sensing is Gaara's chakra in the sand.

Using Preta to absorb the mist is not what he's going for especially knowing that the mist is to large to absorb quick enough for him to kill the Gokage effectively. Knowing they have a Destructive monster on their team or atleast someone strong enough to kill him with a single punch trying to absorb the mist would be dumb but it could work.

Nagato sensory skills can point out when tsunade is coming because her chakra is not meshed with the mist and sand so he will know when she is coming add the fact Nagato reacted to a V2 shunshin from Killerbee by using Preta path

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albeit this was Kabuto using Nagato meaning his reaction would be a tad bit much better add his sensory and we have a solid counter to them trying to use Tsunade as a weapon to catch him off guard.

Well I'm glad you agree Preta isn't a viable way to absorb the mist. But you wasted your time explaining how Nagato can react to Tsunade's speed, that much should be obvious :lol.

Onoki and A Combo gets nullified by Preta path Killerbee had a V2 cloak on not only is it chakra it has physical properties aswell even Base Killerbee Lariat threw V2 Ei off his feet

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meaning his physically power alone should be enough to atleast hurt Nagato yet no damage was tooken at all.

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The Kage combo punch shoots some type of chakra based

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which gets absorbed completely i know Added-Weight Rock would still pack a punch but if Nagato survived a lariat from V2 bee without a single scratch him absorbing the majority of the attack would still leave him alive to where he could revive himself with Naraka path or Nagato could bail out from that and use his flight and shira tensei to his advantage. Nagato can absorb and attack at the same time we've already seen it

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even in your scan Naruto blatantly says (his rinnegan is still new so he cannot asborb and cast jutsu at the same time) Meaning if he was experience like Nagato he would be able to attack and absorb at the same time.

Wow...can't believe you included this in your argument despite this notion having been shitted on before.

Raikage's chakra shroud is not what is doing the damage. Raikage's actual, physical fist, when it hits Nagato, is what does the damage. And because of Onoki making the punch heavy, Nagato won't survive it. Would the chakra shroud be absorbed? Sure. Will it save Nagato? Not a chance in hell. Saying Ay's punch is a chakra based attack is a ridiculous assumption, especially when nothing in the manga supports it. The thing that went through Susanoo was probably the shockwave from the punch, which closely resembles Hirudora or Evening Elephant, both attacks which are not chakra based...so basing your assumption off appearance alone isn't valid proof.

-Ay was

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.
-Mutiply that force by

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due to Onoki making his fist heavy.
-The result is an attack that can

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.

So unless you think Nagato is more durable than Susanoo, I suggest you drop this point. Your Killer Bee comparison doesn't hold up because Nagato survived that only due to Edo regeneration. Bee hit Nagato before Preta was activated.

Spoiler

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Not only that, but a weighted punch is far more destructive than Bee's lariat, with or without chakra.

Lastly, I said Nagato can't CAST jutsu at the same time he has Preta activated. He already had soul rip in use, and used Preta after it had already been cast. Manga specifically says the word "cast" [

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].

Pretty much countered, Shira tensei can repel the mist all together

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not only does that clears the mist and sensing sand it throws his opponents so far back that they will not reach a levitated Nagato in the air fast enough before the 5 seconds is up, Nagato could make his stronger considering Naruto already said he's stronger than pain. Lightened Ei as i stated above preta path absorbs Ninjutsu-Taijutsu quite well Ei without Onoki on his back gets sucked backed to base without leaving a single mark on him and his punch was only deadly to Madara because Onoki used added-rock right before the punch with no Onoki his punch is to soft

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Shinra Tensei being used to repel the mist = Ay blitzing in the cooldown time. Toads were pushed outside the village walls from the epicenter which is a large distance I agree, but lightened Ay can cover that distance in less than 5 seconds. I'll explain below.

-Chibaku Tensei's crater is at least as big as the Leaf village [

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].
-Rasenshuriken covered the entire crater's length in one second. [

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] (read where it says "Four seconds to the next jutsu").

So now all I have to do is prove that lightened Ay is faster than FRS. And he easily is, considering V2 Ay alone is fast enough to dodge Amaterasu from short range. Whereas FRS's traveling speed was matched by Enton arrow which is slower than Amaterasu.

You might say that Ay's shunshin can't cover a distance like that because his momentum will eventually slow him down, but here's the beautiful thing about the backpack combo with Onoki: Ay is weightless, and has no gravity. That means he has less weight to carry himself forward and can cross greater distances faster (I can run faster normally than I can when I'm carrying 35 lb barbells so don't deny that weight is important.) Since Onoki removed Ay's gravity and the gravity of the air around him, there's no friction or air resistance slowing him down. In other words, Ay will still be moving at the same speed he was when he first kicked off the ground, thirty seconds later. It's the same principle as if I throw a rock in outer space, the rock will continue to travel through a straight line forever since there is no gravity acting upon it, and Databook states that the jutsu also lightens the atmosphere around the target so there's no air resistance.

Because of this, Nagato being airborne won't save him from a blitz since Ay can cross incredible distances if he's lightened, and Ay was already shown capable of jumping high into the sky (

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).

Unless A has Onoki on his back his punches are not doing much that simple if so i would agree he could take out the bigger summonings such as the bull and rhino etc. Gaara cannot sense the chamaleon because after that shira tensei Nagato just used his sand was blown away, The chameleon invisibility escape KMC Naruto's danger sensing

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Nagato can plan another shira tensei attack through the Chameleon like he did in canon before they can get there defenses set back up.

Nagato's bird is almost non existent here it serves as eyes and the Gokage will simple ignore it once they see its not attack plus there focus would be on Nagato who is also flying Gaara would not be even sweating this bird. Cerberus splitting into

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parts negates a jinton one shotted it same with added rock tech, Onoki is doing alot if you ask me does he has the reserves to keep up these bushin and lightened everyone up the Gokage as a whole is damaged by his past Shira tensei's, Also with No Onoki i'v already explained why Ei is not that deadly, Nagato pressures his rock bushin with Asura and Deva path once they take a hit they're basically done for as well.

Nagato is attacking the Gokage as a whole or he could opt to pick them off while Gaara takes care of cerberus.

I'm confused as to why you think Ay won't have Onoki on his back. He will literally be on his back for the entirety of the battle, adjusting his weight when he needs to.

KCM Naruto did not sense the chamaleon with his negative emotions sensing because the chamaleon is a dead puppet controlled by chakra rods and doesn't have emotions. Gaara on the other hand can sense invisible objects through sensor sand using physical contact, like the Mizukage's clam. Literally no reason why this wouldn't work. Nagato camping in the chamaleon and periodically using Shinra Tensei like this (

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) is not a strategy that's going to work, because he has to focus the ST forward so it goes out of the chamaleon's mouth. Otherwise Nagato would accidentally repel the chamaleon. Therefore Nagato can't blow away all the sand around him, only the sand directly in front of him, meaning Gaara still locates the chamaleon and kills it in a sand coffin.

Cerberus splitting into ten parts just means easy pickings. The Gokage will most likely ignore the Cerberus summon and not waste time on it.

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And if the foolish dog decides to attack, it gets bodied by any single one of the kage. Overall animal summons are non factor and the Gokage will choose to ignore them if they can.

Gaara is not saving everyone while taking down majority of Nagato's Animals shira tensei mows through any and all of Gaara's sand defenses especially when Nagato uses a similar scaled shira tensei to the one pain blew the Gama trio up with. Asura path is good for sight and stalling while the 5 second intervals are over also its rocket boots provide great flight for Nagato and its multiply arms makes soul stealing so much more easier Asura path plays a big role.

Oh boy...

Gaara doesn't need to focus on animals since they can be ignored. Asura rockets are literally non factor against any single one of the kage.

-Ay dodges the rockets.
-Tsunade tanks them and regenerates.
-Mei blocks them with her water wall.
-Gaara tanks them with his sand.

Soul stealing is not going to be possible since the only one who is going to come within close range of Nagato is Ay, who Nagato can't even react to, let alone steal his soul away from him.

I never said that Gaara's sand can tank ST. But he will catch himself with his lightened sand which softens the impact, and Ay still blitzes in the cool down time.

Except Preta path has already absorbed Gaara's sand, Full arm of sand which is wrapped around Madara's arm

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after preta path

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meaning the sand got absorbed or atleast the chakra Gaara has infused with the sand is absorbed making his sand no different than ordinary sand.


Once Chakra enters the preta orb what happens? It gets absorbed nothing changes for Gaara the reason his sand fell down so suddenly is because it had no more chakra controlling it this happens every time it gets close to the orb so preta pretty much limits Gaara,Onoki,Ei (Ninjutsu-taijutsu gets absorbed without the user taking damage) Mei, and Tsunade who was useless from the get go.

I'v already annihilated the rest of the post after that.
1. Nagato can hover well above the mist as if it has not already been countered above.
2. Asura path

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and

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would plow the sand back or atleast hold it off for a shira tensei.

Even if that combo where to work well the snagging him with the sand part atleast what would stop Nagato from dislocating a

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through asura path? or using a larger shira tensei to blow the sand away and his opponent the moment the sand touches him to many ways to counter that you pick your poison.

Preta canonically failed to absorb Gaara's sand [

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]. It doesn't really make sense, but the manga specifically showed and stated that Madara couldn't absorb Gaara's sand so that's how it is. So Gaara just snags him with sand and crushed him in a sand coffin.

Even if it could absorb the chakra within the sand, Gaara just has to pile a massive amount of sand on top of him and seal him in a pyramid,

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, especially considering that he can

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. Asura blaster might work in repelling the sand, but I'm pretty sure that attack can't be spammed, so on Gaara's second attempt at putting him in a pyramid it works... But this is besides the point, since Preta can't absorb sand so a pyramid is unnecessary- a quick sand coffin will do, and it takes less time for Gaara to snag Nagato with the sand below his feet and use sand coffin than it does to execute the Asura blaster.

As for the dislocating a limb part, I have no idea why that would help Nagato (your link is broken too.) Shinra Tensei obviously would work in repelling sand around him, but I'm talking about this happening in the cool-down time which is why I made a point of saying Gaara can dispatch him in less than five seconds.

I Agree with your presuppositions but you have no idea how much force is applied upon contact and even if its not enough to kill them we cannot say it will not hurt them at all and they're still pushed to far back to reach Nagato during his 5 second intervals to do something so he will rinse and repeat until the job is done.

Actually, we do know how much force is applied on contact. Not nearly enough to damage any of the kage.

-Naruto's SM clones did not go poof when the force was applied.
-Killer Bee took no damage from a focused Shinra Tensei when the force was applied. (

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).
-

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took no damage when the force was applied.

Already addressed the part about ST pushing them back.

Implying that Nagato would use the same shira tensei Pain used against clones to just get them away from him even though the manga has stated Nagato is stronger than the Latter using the shira tensei he used on the gama trio surely breaks some bones on impact being light does not increase your durability.

No one in the manga has EVER taken damage before they hit the ground. V2 Ay is more durable than Base Bee who took no damage, so what's your point?

They won't take damage when they hit the ground because the hit the ground with extremely little impact due to having no weight, and no gravity.

Agreed.

Good.

False it does not completely take away gravity hell even when your on the moon gravity is not completely gone he just took away most of it if it had no gravity at all he would not have needed to lift it, it would have just floated away.

Umm...NOT FALSE, because after Onoki lightens people they float around like a balloon due to having no gravity (

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) and Onoki did not have to pick up turtle island, it naturally floated upwards unless you're saying that after Onoki lightened it he went underwater into the ocean beneath the turtle and pushed the turtle up.

DB already said it takes away the target's gravity not my problem if you want to disagree with facts.

Nope Shira tensei throwing you to the ground gets nullified getting hit upon contact is still like getting smacked with a truck on the highway they'll feel the full force of the impact and if it can sends boss summonings flying away like that im pretty sure it can break some bones.

I feel like you didn't read anything I said. Ay being lightened with no weight or gravity = he hits the ground with zero impact don't compare heavy ass toads to something that weighs less than a feather.

Are you implying the susanoo smack = > A Larger shira tensei from Nagato if so where is the proof? not to mention he had a block of sand infront of him and something that can tossed Boss summonings village range > a Susanoo punch that does not even destroy the human body when its not smashing it between the ground in something else

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so those scans a pointless Nagato's average shira tensei ripped trees from their

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No I'm not implying that. I'm just saying that lightened sand reduces the impact when the target hits the ground like it was shown to do since hitting hard earth is obviously different from falling into a field of soft pillows. And this doesnt even matter because even if Gaara or whoever dies, Ay will just close the distance between himself and Nagato and smack him with a heavyweight punch.

Nagato cannot track Ei on the ground yes but he's not nearly that fast in the air. @Bold if only i didn't kill that nonsense argument ages ago. Shira tensei does not need to be focused when its blows a 360, Ei is not tanking it surviving it yes but tanking know add to the distance he gets thrown then add the fact he's not blitzing anyone who can fly from the ground he simply gets toyed with. A does gets located then Universal pulls him in then he is pinned down with

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Sand is absorbed and blasted it away by asura and Preta path.

Ay is not going to be in the air at all unless he's blitzing Nagato in ST's cool down time so no Nagato can't track him therefore he doesn't know his location therefore he doesn't know where to focus his ST therefore he can't hit Ay with focused ST or draw him in with Bansho Tenin.

Addressed how Nagato being airborne changes nothing but I'll post it again so you get the point.

Spoiler

You might say that Ay's shunshin can't cover a distance like that because his momentum will eventually slow him down, but here's the beautiful thing about the backpack combo with Onoki: Ay is weightless, and has no gravity. That means he has less weight to carry himself forward and can cross greater distances faster (I can run faster normally than I can when I'm carrying 35 lb barbells so don't deny that weight is important.) Since Onoki removed Ay's gravity and the gravity of the air around him, there's no friction or air resistance slowing him down. In other words, Ay will still be moving at the same speed he was when he first kicked off the ground, thirty seconds later. It's the same principle as if I throw a rock in outer space, the rock will continue to travel through a straight line forever since there is no gravity acting upon it, and Databook states that the jutsu also lightens the atmosphere around the target so there's no air resistance.

Because of this, Nagato being airborne won't save him from a blitz since Ay can cross incredible distances if he's lightened, and Ay was already shown capable of jumping high into the sky (

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).

The bold is wrong nothing supports it and i've already explained why Ay tanks it because of the lightened boulder jutsu and you agreed with me. Also 360 degree Shinra Tensei is weak considering Tsunade and her Anbu survived unfocused village buster ST in base so Ay tanks it easily.

Post is funny, Full scale 360 shira tensei would floor these kages the leaf survived due to all the debri in the fact that the epicenter of CST was aimed at the center of the village is what kept some ninja alive, Nagato flying near them then releasing CST would kill them all on sight. Full scale focused Shira tensei would have a large aoe still he aims for Onoki Ei & Gaara turning them to nothing more but smears on the ground. His Bird finally emerges to swoop him off his feet keeping him away from the mei and tsunade while they
get bombed from above eventually killing them as well or rods take them down pick your poison.

Wow this paragraph is bad. Full scale 360 degree Shinra Tensei was used on the village and guess who survived it? Tsunade and her fodder Anbu, you can clearly see Pain jumping away from them here (

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) and Tsunade following (

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). then after 360 degree CST is used Tsunade and her Anbu are still alive (

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). Saying the leaf survived it because of the debris is a lame way of downplaying the obvious fact that when it's not focused ST is weak.

Focused ST is not an option against Ay, since Nagato can't track Ay's speed therefore he won't know where he is or where to focus it. Funny you think Ay, Onoki, and Gaara will conveniently be grouped together for Nagato to nail them no they won't be.

-Even if by some miracle Nagato hits Ay/Onoki with focused ST, Gaara (who is somewhere else on the battlefield) is still alive and he takes a dump on Nagato after he loses his Deva powers.
-If Nagato targets Gaara with focused CST, then Ay is still alive and he shits on Nagato w/o Deva powers.

Not needed here at all only a chakra waster

Glad you agree.

If only this had already been shitted on. Honestly i do not see how you can even reply when the base of your argument was countered hard with the bug jamming and the speed blitzing.



Did not mean to do em this bad.


probably had a couple spelling errors but dammit this was the quickest large post i even made 2hr 10minutes on this it usually takes around 5hrs

honestly didn't think it would be this easy.

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[EZQ]

Am i still a judge of this?

 

[Beans2]

Am i still a judge of this?

If you still want to be one. If you don't it's fine.

 

[EZQ]

If you still want to be one. If you don't it's fine.

I could start with it on wednesday i hope that's okay. Anyways it would take me 1 day.

 

[TRE MERCER]

I could start with it on wednesday i hope that's okay. Anyways it would take me 1 day.

How when Unorthodox hasn't even posted his 2nd post?​

 

[EZQ]

How when Unorthodox hasn't even posted his 2nd post?​

Oh, i tought this was done, lol. Okay then it's better, more time to rest.

 

[Unorthodox]

Unorthodox is god

About time you posted my counter will be up friday or thursday more likely friday though

 

[Beans2]

What's the deal Dox it's been a week.

 

[EZQ]

About time you posted my counter will be up friday or thursday more likely friday though

What's the deal dox it's been a week.

 

[Unorthodox]

What's the deal dox it's been a week.

Just have not had the right motivation to debate this matchup any longer im pretty sure my first post was enough but i know i could put the nail in the coffin with a second post if i do not have a post by 2mah you can go ahead and judge it as it is


Im sad i ruined my own debate

 

[Beans2]

Just have not had the right motivation to debate this matchup any longer im pretty sure my first post was enough but i know i could put the nail in the coffin with a second post if i do not have a post by 2mah you can go ahead and judge it as it is


Im sad i ruined my own debate

Smh, quit with that "I could have won this" nonsense. The manga facts were too much for you. Simple. You can either back out and forfeit this debate, or we could have someone judge it as it is (in which case you know I'll win anyway.) Or you could grow a pair and post again.

 

[EZQ]

For me it's Ok. One less wallie to read.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Since this over i want to debate Beans=D​

 

[Beans2]

Since this over i want to debate Beans=D​

Never ever going to debate you. So you can chase that silly notion out of your head.

 

[EZQ]

Should i judge it?

Since dox didn't even make a second post and beans didn't make any major flaw in his post honestly i don't think it's needed. But i can start this afternoon if you want me to.

 

[Beans2]

Should i judge it?

Since dox didn't even make a second post and beans didn't make any major flaw in his post honestly i don't think it's needed. But i can start this afternoon if you want me to.

Yes. Please judge it.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Never ever going to debate you. So you can chase that silly notion out of your head.

The ducking will end soon.​

 

[EZQ]

Already started judging it. I'll edit this post.

 

[EZQ]

I survived another minor surgery people

The bad news is that i'm a bit dizzy. I hope you don't mind me posting the veredict tomorrow