Unorthodox vs Beans2

Unorthodox · Aug 31, 2015

Beans2 said:
I've actually already written about half of my opener. Do you want to wait until the end of the day for me to post or do you want to go ahead? It doesn't matter to me.

Phuck it just go post

TRE MERCER · Aug 31, 2015

Beans stay sneak dissin lmao. Nagato wins this inb4 Beans claim ST won't hurt you unless you hit the ground LMAO gtfoh.

Beans2 · Sep 1, 2015

Let's get this started.

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Since this is manga intel, Tsunade will tell her teammates all about Pain's abilities.

The Gokage will start the battle by setting up their combos. Mei will

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Onoki will make a rock clone which will lighten Gaara's sand to give it a speed boost. Gaara will spread his sensor sand over the battlefield. This dual screen of sand and mist completely shuts off Nagato's perception of the battlefield around him.

1. The mist will block the Rinnegan's vision and

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Nagato has with his summoning animals.
2. The chakra in the wide scale sensor sand will

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.

Nagato can try absorbing the mist with Preta, but this will prove to be an ineffective strategy since Nagato can only absorb the mist immediately surrounding him because of the way Preta works, and he

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.

Shinra Tensei would be a good way to repel the sand and mist around him, if only lightened Ay couldn't shitblitz him in the five second cooldown. But he can, and he will.

Countering Nagato's arsenal.

Animal path:

Rinnegan summons are fodder in this matchup for obvious reasons. They serve no purpose offensively, and when they go in to attack, any one of the kage can dispatch them with ease, but I'll just use the most effective way of taking them out, which is lightened Ay blitzing them with a heavyweight punch. Only three summons are exempt from getting blitzed: The chamaleon, which is invisible. The bird, which can fly out of range. And the Cerberus, which can tank Ay's attack. Fortunately, Gaara can

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then squash it in a sand coffin. Gaara can snag the slow ass bird with sand, and crush its wing, causing it to fall to its death. Cerberus can be killed with Jinton, immobilized with weighted-rock tech with one touch from Onoki or his clone, sealed in a sand pyramid, melted with lava, or melted with Katsuyu acid.

Asura Path:

This path uses mechanical rockets and lasers. I don't see how they pose a problem when Gaara can protect his teammates and just tank them with his sand.

Preta Path:

Useful against Jinton or Mei's attacks. Not so useful against Gaara who can

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that caught Madara off guard, and not useful against Ay who can blitz and kill him

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. Madara couldn't react to his speed, so neither can Nagato especially considering his senses are dulled by the mist and sand so his reaction speed gets decreased.

Deva Path:

first off let's take a look at what Shinra Tensei does.

Bolded statements explain that Nagato creates a gravitational force to repel objects. The jutsu is pure force, which damages the target in two stages. The first stage (red) is when the force first hits the target. The second stage (green) is much more damaging, and occurs when the target collides with another object, namely the ground.

There are examples in the manga to support this.

1.

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When ST is used on Naruto's shadow clones, they get pushed back but don't expire and disappear with a puff of smoke until they hit the ground.

2.

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Upon being hit with ST, the toads make exclamations meaning the force hit them hard, but the real damage they took is when they collided into their surroundings hence the second exclamation.

Ay and Onoki's backpack combo have the perfect counter to a jutsu that uses gravity: a jutsu that takes away gravity.

The bold explains that the jutsu removes the target's gravity, so it can't take damage from Shinra Tensei's gravitational force when it first hits Ay, especially since Ay is much more durable than Naruto's shadow clones which survived that. The underlined explains how it also takes away the user's weight, so they don't take damage when they hit the ground. To explain it in scientific terms:

Force = mass x acceleration due to gravity

Onoki takes away gravity to make acceleration due to gravity equal to zero, so whatever number multiplied by zero still equals zero. Onoki takes zero damage when he hits the ground due to having no gravity, and Ay won't squash him when he lands on top since Ay is as light as a feather. And since the target's weight is reduced, the mass is reduced drastically also.

Don't believe me when I say this haxxed jutsu can completely take away gravity? Onoki

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and

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. Shinra Tensei's effect gets completely nullified.

Any one of the kage can take the initial force from ST, but the damage they get from hitting the ground is negated by Gaara softening their landing by catching them with his lightened sand (

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)(

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).

And that's just the beginning.

What makes this even worse for Nagato is that he can't track lightened Ay, especially with his senses dulled by the sand and mist, so he can't focus his ST on him without knowing his location. If he uses a cautionary 360 degree ST to prevent himself getting blitzed, Ay tanks it and blitzes him in the five second cooldown. Without being able to locate Ay, Nagato also can't draw him in with Bansho Tenin, which is literally just an invitation to get blitzed either by Ay or Gaara's lightened sand

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which quickly crushes his body in a sand coffin.

Now to move on to Nagato's trump cards: Chou Shinra Tensei, when focused, is a deadly attack which would kill any one kage. However, Nagato would have to choose which kage to focus it on, which would leave the other ones alive. Nagato can't even track Ay's speed, which means he doesn't know where to focus it. Even if by some lucky chance he hit Ay/Onoki with focused CST, he still has Gaara, Tsunade, and Mei to deal with, which he cannot do after losing his Deva powers. If he doesn't kill Ay with CST, he simply gets blitzed.

Chibaku Tensei is countered most easily of all, with a simple Jinton being

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.

Human Path and Naraka path are both useless for obvious reasons. Overall the five kage win mid difficulty. One Shinra Tensei and it's over for Nagato as he can't react to Ay's blitz.

Unorthodox · Sep 1, 2015

Beans2 said:
Those conditions are there to keep Unorthodox in check.

Thanks but no thanks im just going to make a reply my 2nd post is going to be leaps inbounds better than this

Beans2 said:
Let's get this started.

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Since this is manga intel, Tsunade will tell her teammates all about Pain's abilities.
The Gokage will start the battle by setting up their combos. Mei will
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Onoki will make a rock clone which will lighten Gaara's sand to give it a speed boost. Gaara will spread his sensor sand over the battlefield. This dual screen of sand and mist completely shuts off Nagato's perception of the battlefield around him.

Going against your own Disciple is heart hurting but sometimes you got to put them in there place.

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I'll add that Nagato would have decent knowledge on them due to the fact that Deidara knew Of Onoki dust release

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, Also he fought Gaara meaning he could have atleast told the akatsuki about his jutsu style, Nagato would already have basic information on Tsunade because of him being a student of Jiraiya so thats no problem. Mei and A he does not know to much about but as the battle progress he will find out.

While the Gokage is trying to set up this combination Nagato summons his Rinnegan Summonings to start off the battle while taking flight and getting his distance, With the combination of Deva's levitation and Asura path's Rocket boots

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→

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this basically gives Nagato flight in the scan of Madara we saw him Bijuu height when levitated he can get much higher as Deva path has already shown when he used Chou Shira Tensei on the Leaf Village. Madara was shown to have decent speed when using Deva abilties as flight, Nagato using the same technique in conjunction with Rocket boost give him better flight ability and would increase his speed and mobility.

Mei and Gaara's sand and hidden mist jutsu only makes them protected from Nagato's sensory abilities while the others Tsunade,A,Onoki are sensed easily due to different chakra identities Nagato having 4 different faces

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along with sharing vision with his summonings 2 of which can fly, The bird stays strictly in the air to cover his blind spot the top of his head.

Beans2 said:
1. The mist will block the Rinnegan's vision and
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Nagato has with his summoning animals.
2. The chakra in the wide scale sensor sand will
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.

Disconnecting him from his animals would only work if he was caught in the mist with flight he evades it all together.
Not sure if serious with jamming Nagato's sensory abilities with a technique called Bug jamming logically meaning that only a shinobi of ,Aburame Ichizoku clan can use that ability. Add the fact none of the Gokage has shown that ability and this is how it is utilized.

The user has a large amount of their kikaichū and has them spread out over a wide area around themselves. The insects then emit a small amount of the their host's respective chakra that they usually feed on. This confuses sensor-type shinobi's chakra-sensing ability, as the insects' irregular distribution and grouping together result in the creation of numerous false 'images' or chakra signals, making it more difficult to distinguish the user's actual location.

So no this is not happening.

Beans2 said:
Nagato can try absorbing the mist with Preta, but this will prove to be an ineffective strategy since Nagato can only absorb the mist immediately surrounding him because of the way Preta works, and he
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.

Using Preta to absorb the mist is not what he's going for especially knowing that the mist is to large to absorb quick enough for him to kill the Gokage effectively. Knowing they have a Destructive monster on their team or atleast someone strong enough to kill him with a single punch trying to absorb the mist would be dumb but it could work.

Nagato sensory skills can point out when tsunade is coming because her chakra is not meshed with the mist and sand so he will know when she is coming add the fact Nagato reacted to a V2 shunshin from Killerbee by using Preta path

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albeit this was Kabuto using Nagato meaning his reaction would be a tad bit much better add his sensory and we have a solid counter to them trying to use Tsunade as a weapon to catch him off guard.

Onoki and A Combo gets nullified by Preta path Killerbee had a V2 cloak on not only is it chakra it has physical properties aswell even Base Killerbee Lariat threw V2 Ei off his feet

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meaning his physically power alone should be enough to atleast hurt Nagato yet no damage was tooken at all.

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The Kage combo punch shoots some type of chakra based

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which gets absorbed completely i know Added-Weight Rock would still pack a punch but if Nagato survived a lariat from V2 bee without a single scratch him absorbing the majority of the attack would still leave him alive to where he could revive himself with Naraka path or Nagato could bail out from that and use his flight and shira tensei to his advantage. Nagato can absorb and attack at the same time we've already seen it

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even in your scan Naruto blatantly says (his rinnegan is still new so he cannot asborb and cast jutsu at the same time) Meaning if he was experience like Nagato he would be able to attack and absorb at the same time.

Beans2 said:
Shinra Tensei would be a good way to repel the sand and mist around him, if only lightened Ay couldn't shitblitz him in the five second cooldown. But he can, and he will.

Pretty much countered, Shira tensei can repel the mist all together

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not only does that clears the mist and sensing sand it throws his opponents so far back that they will not reach a levitated Nagato in the air fast enough before the 5 seconds is up, Nagato could make his stronger considering Naruto already said he's stronger than pain. Lightened Ei as i stated above preta path absorbs Ninjutsu-Taijutsu quite well Ei without Onoki on his back gets sucked backed to base without leaving a single mark on him and his punch was only deadly to Madara because Onoki used added-rock right before the punch with no Onoki his punch is to soft

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Beans2 said:
lightened Ay blitzing them with a heavyweight punch. Only three summons are exempt from getting blitzed: The chamaleon, which is invisible. The bird, which can fly out of range. And the Cerberus, which can tank Ay's attack. Fortunately, Gaara can
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then squash it in a sand coffin. Gaara can snag the slow ass bird with sand, and crush its wing, causing it to fall to its death. Cerberus can be killed with Jinton, immobilized with weighted-rock tech with one touch from Onoki or his clone, sealed in a sand pyramid, melted with lava, or melted with Katsuyu acid.

Unless A has Onoki on his back his punches are not doing much that simple if so i would agree he could take out the bigger summonings such as the bull and rhino etc. Gaara cannot sense the chamaleon because after that shira tensei Nagato just used his sand was blown away, The chameleon invisibility escape KMC Naruto's danger sensing

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Nagato can plan another shira tensei attack through the Chameleon like he did in canon before they can get there defenses set back up.

Nagato's bird is almost non existent here it serves as eyes and the Gokage will simple ignore it once they see its not attack plus there focus would be on Nagato who is also flying Gaara would not be even sweating this bird. Cerberus splitting into

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parts negates a jinton one shotted it same with added rock tech, Onoki is doing alot if you ask me does he has the reserves to keep up these bushin and lightened everyone up the Gokage as a whole is damaged by his past Shira tensei's, Also with No Onoki i'v already explained why Ei is not that deadly, Nagato pressures his rock bushin with Asura and Deva path once they take a hit they're basically done for as well.

Nagato is attacking the Gokage as a whole or he could opt to pick them off while Gaara takes care of cerberus.

Beans2 said:
This path uses mechanical rockets and lasers. I don't see how they pose a problem when Gaara can protect his teammates and just tank them with his sand.

Gaara is not saving everyone while taking down majority of Nagato's Animals shira tensei mows through any and all of Gaara's sand defenses especially when Nagato uses a similar scaled shira tensei to the one pain blew the Gama trio up with. Asura path is good for sight and stalling while the 5 second intervals are over also its rocket boots provide great flight for Nagato and its multiply arms makes soul stealing so much more easier Asura path plays a big role.

Beans2 said:
Useful against Jinton or Mei's attacks. Not so useful against Gaara who can
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that caught Madara off guard, and not useful against Ay who can blitz and kill him
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. Madara couldn't react to his speed, so neither can Nagato especially considering his senses are dulled by the mist and sand so his reaction speed gets decreased.

Except Preta path has already absorbed Gaara's sand, Full arm of sand which is wrapped around Madara's arm

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after preta path

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meaning the sand got absorbed or atleast the chakra Gaara has infused with the sand is absorbed making his sand no different than ordinary sand.

While Gaara is capable of controlling any sand, he keeps specially-made sand (特別製の砂, Tokubetsu Sei no Suna) in his gourd,[1] also made from this sand. This sand is infused with his chakra,

Once Chakra enters the preta orb what happens? It gets absorbed nothing changes for Gaara the reason his sand fell down so suddenly is because it had no more chakra controlling it this happens every time it gets close to the orb so preta pretty much limits Gaara,Onoki,Ei (Ninjutsu-taijutsu gets absorbed without the user taking damage) Mei, and Tsunade who was useless from the get go.

I'v already annihilated the rest of the post after that.
1. Nagato can hover well above the mist as if it has not already been countered above.
2. Asura path

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and

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would plow the sand back or atleast hold it off for a shira tensei.

Even if that combo where to work well the snagging him with the sand part atleast what would stop Nagato from dislocating a

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through asura path? or using a larger shira tensei to blow the sand away and his opponent the moment the sand touches him to many ways to counter that you pick your poison.

Beans2 said:
Bolded statements explain that Nagato creates a gravitational force to repel objects. The jutsu is pure force, which damages the target in two stages. The first stage (red) is when the force first hits the target. The second stage (green) is much more damaging, and occurs when the target collides with another object, namely the ground.
There are examples in the manga to support this.
1.
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When ST is used on Naruto's shadow clones, they get pushed back but don't expire and disappear with a puff of smoke until they hit the ground.
2.
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Upon being hit with ST, the toads make exclamations meaning the force hit them hard, but the real damage they took is when they collided into their surroundings hence the second exclamation.

I Agree with your presuppositions but you have no idea how much force is applied upon contact and even if its not enough to kill them we cannot say it will not hurt them at all and they're still pushed to far back to reach Nagato during his 5 second intervals to do something so he will rinse and repeat until the job is done.

Beans2 said:
The bold explains that the jutsu removes the target's gravity, so it can't take damage from Shinra Tensei's gravitational force when it first hits Ay, especially since Ay is much more durable than Naruto's shadow clones which survived that. The underlined explains how it also takes away the user's weight, so they don't take damage when they hit the ground. To explain it in scientific terms

Implying that Nagato would use the same shira tensei Pain used against clones to just get them away from him even though the manga has stated Nagato is stronger than the Latter using the shira tensei he used on the gama trio surely breaks some bones on impact being light does not increase your durability.

Beans2 said:
Onoki takes away gravity to make acceleration due to gravity equal to zero, so whatever number multiplied by zero still equals zero. Onoki takes zero damage when he hits the ground due to having no gravity, and Ay won't squash him when he lands on top since Ay is as light as a feather. And since the target's weight is reduced, the mass is reduced drastically also.

Agreed.

Beans2 said:
Don't believe me when I say this haxxed jutsu can completely take away gravity? Onoki
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and
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. Shinra Tensei's effect gets completely nullified.

False it does not completely take away gravity hell even when your on the moon gravity is not completely gone he just took away most of it if it had no gravity at all he would not have needed to lift it, it would have just floated away.

Nope Shira tensei throwing you to the ground gets nullified getting hit upon contact is still like getting smacked with a truck on the highway they'll feel the full force of the impact and if it can sends boss summonings flying away like that im pretty sure it can break some bones.

Beans2 said:
Any one of the kage can take the initial force from ST, but the damage they get from hitting the ground is negated by Gaara softening their landing by catching them with his lightened sand (
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)(
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).

Are you implying the susanoo smack = > A Larger shira tensei from Nagato if so where is the proof? not to mention he had a block of sand infront of him and something that can tossed Boss summonings village range > a Susanoo punch that does not even destroy the human body when its not smashing it between the ground in something else

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so those scans a pointless Nagato's average shira tensei ripped trees from their

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Beans2 said:
What makes this even worse for Nagato is that he can't track lightened Ay, especially with his senses dulled by the sand and mist, so he can't focus his ST on him without knowing his location. If he uses a cautionary 360 degree ST to prevent himself getting blitzed, Ay tanks it and blitzes him in the five second cooldown. Without being able to locate Ay, Nagato also can't draw him in with Bansho Tenin, which is literally just an invitation to get blitzed either by Ay or Gaara's lightened sand
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which quickly crushes his body in a sand coffin.

Nagato cannot track Ei on the ground yes but he's not nearly that fast in the air. @Bold if only i didn't kill that nonsense argument ages ago. Shira tensei does not need to be focused when its blows a 360, Ei is not tanking it surviving it yes but tanking know add to the distance he gets thrown then add the fact he's not blitzing anyone who can fly from the ground he simply gets toyed with. A does gets located then Universal pulls him in then he is pinned down with

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Sand is absorbed and blasted it away by asura and Preta path.

Beans2 said:
Now to move on to Nagato's trump cards: Chou Shinra Tensei, when focused, is a deadly attack which would kill any one kage. However, Nagato would have to choose which kage to focus it on, which would leave the other ones alive. Nagato can't even track Ay's speed, which means he doesn't know where to focus it. Even if by some lucky chance he hit Ay/Onoki with focused CST, he still has Gaara, Tsunade, and Mei to deal with, which he cannot do after losing his Deva powers. If he doesn't kill Ay with CST, he simply gets blitzed.

Post is funny, Full scale 360 shira tensei would floor these kages the leaf survived due to all the debri in the fact that the epicenter of CST was aimed at the center of the village is what kept some ninja alive, Nagato flying near them then releasing CST would kill them all on sight. Full scale focused Shira tensei would have a large aoe still he aims for Onoki Ei & Gaara turning them to nothing more but smears on the ground. His Bird finally emerges to swoop him off his feet keeping him away from the mei and tsunade while they
get bombed from above eventually killing them as well or rods take them down pick your poison.

Beans2 said:
Chibaku Tensei is countered most easily of all, with a simple Jinton being
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.

Not needed here at all only a chakra waster

Beans2 said:
Human Path and Naraka path are both useless for obvious reasons. Overall the five kage win mid difficulty. One Shinra Tensei and it's over for Nagato as he can't react to Ay's blitz.

If only this had already been shitted on. Honestly i do not see how you can even reply when the base of your argument was countered hard with the bug jamming and the speed blitzing.

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Did not mean to do em this bad.

probably had a couple spelling errors but dammit this was the quickest large post i even made 2hr 10minutes on this it usually takes around 5hrs

DrProof · Sep 1, 2015

Beans no Gaara can beat Nagato, I'm sorry you're not as knowledgeable as GodProof about Godara. Tis okay my man. I still luv u. No homo.

Zexion~ · Sep 1, 2015

Two Nagato debates :lol

History · Sep 3, 2015

nice debate so far

Unorthodox · Sep 3, 2015

i really don't see how i can lose this like i feel like i countered everything perfectly

Bogard · Sep 3, 2015

OG LEGEND said:
probably had a couple spelling errors but dammit this was the quickest large post i even made 2hr 10minutes on this it usually takes around 5hrs

Seriously?

TRE MERCER · Sep 3, 2015

Nike had a good post but it was based off 1 thing that isn't present here.

Full Knowledge.

Beans2 · Sep 4, 2015

Counter will be up this weekend, making this my placeholder. Unorthodox is always a pain replying to looks like he didn't read the condition

Condition- Debaters MUST use complete sentences with periods and commas when needed.

And he went overboard with the line breaks and borders, shit's annoying bruh.

TRE MERCER · Sep 4, 2015

Numer 1 rule when debating with KG and NIKE prepare yourself for a finals essay.

Zexion~ · Sep 4, 2015

I dont think knowing when to stop and start again really impedes on Unorthodox getting his point across :lol you people shit on his grammar for no reason, like damn if you're that smart you'll understand regardless.

Just looking for something to mock him about, it got un-funny ages ago.

Unorthodox · Sep 4, 2015

Zexion~ said:
I dont think knowing when to stop and start again really impedes on Unorthodox getting his point across :lol you people shit on his grammar for no reason, like damn if you're that smart you'll understand regardless.

Just looking for something to mock him about, it got un-funny ages ago.

Thank you I'm not good with commas at all

Beans2 · Sep 4, 2015

Zexion~ said:
I dont think knowing when to stop and start again really impedes on Unorthodox getting his point across :lol you people shit on his grammar for no reason, like damn if you're that smart you'll understand regardless.

Just looking for something to mock him about, it got un-funny ages ago.

It makes understanding his points more difficult for me. Not trying to mock him.

OG LEGEND said:
Thank you I'm not good with commas at all

A good way to get the hang of commas is to read the post out loud, then when there's a break between words you put a comma in there.

Zexion~ · Sep 4, 2015

OG LEGEND said:
Thank you I'm not good with commas at all

I feel you hate those shits

Beans2 said:
It makes understanding his points more difficult for me. Not trying to mock him.

How exactly? Debaters signal they're moving to a new topic when adressing a different quote so its not even like you could get confused as to if he segwayed or not, def not neccesary to make it a insulting condition :lol

Beans2 · Sep 4, 2015

Zexion~ said:
I feel you hate those shits

How exactly? Debaters signal they're moving to a new topic when adressing a different quote so its not even like you could get confused as to if he segwayed or not, def not neccesary to make it a insulting condition :lol

Bruh, I'm just asking him to use grammar. Nobody should feel insulted by that.

Zexion~ · Sep 4, 2015

Beans2 said:
Bruh, I'm just asking him to use grammar. Nobody should feel insulted by that.

We both know everyone tries to flame :lol, and not everyone's that great with composition doesn't mean your ideas are any less off just bear with it and enjoy the debate or if its not enjoyable don't ask to debate him.

But ight my man have fun debatting the lesser of the two Nagato debates.

Tantalus Thief · Sep 4, 2015

Looking forward to see how this will end.

DrProof · Sep 4, 2015

Zexion~ said:
I dont think knowing when to stop and start again really impedes on Unorthodox getting his point across :lol you people shit on his grammar for no reason, like damn if you're that smart you'll understand regardless.

Just looking for something to mock him about, it got un-funny ages ago.

OG LEGEND said:
Thank you I'm not good with commas at all

I agree. @ Both.

Unorthodox vs Beans2

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