[VS] Zoro vs Mihawk

[ssjelf]

I never said that that's guaranteed to happen. It's also not guaranteed it won't. That's simply an explanation of how it could happen. How about you actually explain why the logic is terrible.

Mihawk said with the proper Busoshoku, any blade can become Yoru. Unless you think Zoro's Haki is comparable or equal to Mihawk's, Zoro can't cut through the blade. There's zero evidence Zoro can cut through Mihawk's.

And why are people bringing up the two years like that's some huge amount of time? Rayleigh said he was surprised Luffy progressed as much as he did in two years because two years isn't enough to master the BASICS of Haki. Even if we assume Zoro had the same special growth, what's two years of making it past the basics compared to how long Mihawk must have had Haki? Bear in mind Ray's statement implies he didn't master the basics in two years, and he's a monster placed in the same light as Whitebeard by Garp.

The logic is bad because you are assuming mihawk can use 75% of his strength with the knife. Simply by using the knife he is limiting himself. It was implied that even using the sword, if mihawk tried as little as possible, it would still be too much for zoro at that point. The knife was needed to lower his strength to even be near the realm of zoros at that time. Therefore the knife itself is a severe limiter even if mihawk used haki. If mihawk used haki with that knife I dont see him reaching much higher than 60% of his strength given that mihawk cant use his full strength with it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

The logic is bad because you are assuming mihawk can use 75% of his strength with the knife. Simply by using the knife he is limiting himself. It was implied that even using the sword, if mihawk tried as little as possible, it would still be too much for zoro at that point. The knife was needed to lower his strength to even be near the realm of zoros at that time. Therefore the knife itself is a severe limiter even if mihawk used haki. If mihawk used haki with that knife I dont see him reaching much higher than 60% of his strength given that mihawk cant use his full strength with it.

I'm talking about putting in the effort equivalent to a level 75 going all out. Which means, using his Haki, physical strength, speed and skill that would make him equivalent to a level 75 fighter. I'm not talking about output here, I'm talking about effort.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

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It's interesting because I have different translation.

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Do you even read one piece ???? Bcoz there is an iron clad rule Of new world, work with them or go against them. Mihawk works with shanks like friend bcoz shanks is kind and linenient guy, stupid..........

Mihawk is not even in the New World, these days.

 

[giostep]

Updating Shanks and Alliance is kind of working with him only......Every shichibukai has to work under a younkou and Mihawk works with shanks pretty much doffy with kaidou!!!!!

Shanks and Mihawks (possible) alliance is different from the relationship that Doffy has with Kaido. I think that Shanks (possible) alliance with Mihawk is just a mutual agreement that Mihawk does what he wants and he wont have any issues with Shanks and wont confront him. Mihawk attacked Luffy knowing his relationship with Shanks, and I doubt if Shanks found out that he would hold it against him. But thats going off topic. My main idea is that in the New world you can work for, with, or against a Yonko. I say that Mihawk works with Shanks but with pure autonomy not as an underling. Also who says that Shanks is in the New world? I dont remember ever seeing or hearing anything about him since the TS...

 

[Relostar Devil]

Shanks and Mihawks (possible) alliance is different from the relationship that Doffy has with Kaido. I think that Shanks (possible) alliance with Mihawk is just a mutual agreement that Mihawk does what he wants and he wont have any issues with Shanks and wont confront him. Mihawk attacked Luffy knowing his relationship with Shanks, and I doubt if Shanks found out that he would hold it against him. But thats going off topic. My main idea is that in the New world you can work for, with, or against a Yonko. I say that Mihawk works with Shanks but with pure autonomy not as an underling. Also who says that Shanks is in the New world? I dont remember ever seeing or hearing anything about him since the TS...

I agree with you of mihawk working with shanks. I have already wrote that in my above posts.
Mihawk attacking luffy is completely diff. From shanks and mihawk agreement. Shanks is in the new world?? Then where is he????Grand line??? East blue, taking care of his baby???

 

[KesOnFire]

Mihawk

 

[ssjelf]

I'm talking about putting in the effort equivalent to a level 75 going all out. Which means, using his Haki, physical strength, speed and skill that would make him equivalent to a level 75 fighter. I'm not talking about output here, I'm talking about effort.

So not only can mihawk low diff zoro using a knife which:

1. Isn't mihawks primary style and
2. Isn't one one of the 12 great swords which is also naturally kokuto but is sure to be stronger using haki,

but he can also do it using 75% of his effort? By your logic, zoro will never beat mihawk.

 

[Punk Hazard]

So not only can mihawk low diff zoro using a knife which:

1. Isn't mihawks primary style and
2. Isn't one one of the 12 great swords which is also naturally kokuto but is sure to be stronger using haki,

but he can also do it using 75% of his effort? By your logic, zoro will never beat mihawk.

You very poorly understood what I said.

Mihawk was able to low diff Zoro in East Blue by using just enough of his strength to create a certain gap between them. I believe Mihawk can recreate that gap, even while using his knife, simply by adjusting the effort he uses to accommodate Zoro's growth in strength. Which means, using Haki, dodging, blocking attacks, etc.

He can infuse Haki into the knife so Zoro can't cut it. He can infuse Haki through his body to tank Zoro's attacks. He can use his speed to dodge them. He can use his speed to get in close and pierce Zoro's Haki with his own, stabbing him in the throat.

If Mihawk is at his peak at level 100, then Zoro will be able to beat him if he reaches that level or surpasses it. For now, he's nowhere near it, so he'll still be low diffed if Mihawk puts in enough effort.

 

[giostep]

I agree with you of mihawk working with shanks. I have already wrote that in my above posts.
Mihawk attacking luffy is completely diff. From shanks and mihawk agreement. Shanks is in the new world?? Then where is he????Grand line??? East blue, taking care of his baby???

Meant to say Mihawk lol.

 

[giostep]

You very poorly understood what I said.

Mihawk was able to low diff Zoro in East Blue by using just enough of his strength to create a certain gap between them. I believe Mihawk can recreate that gap, even while using his knife, simply by adjusting the effort he uses to accommodate Zoro's growth in strength. Which means, using Haki, dodging, blocking attacks, etc.

He can infuse Haki into the knife so Zoro can't cut it. He can infuse Haki through his body to tank Zoro's attacks. He can use his speed to dodge them. He can use his speed to get in close and pierce Zoro's Haki with his own, stabbing him in the throat.

If Mihawk is at his peak at level 100, then Zoro will be able to beat him if he reaches that level or surpasses it. For now, he's nowhere near it, so he'll still be low diffed if Mihawk puts in enough effort.

isnt difficulty determined by how much effort you put in to win? Yes Mihawk puts in less effort with a stronger sword but that has nothing to do with the effort of another weapon. If Mihawk low diff Zoro way back when with that knife do you think that after several years of training and fighting strong opponents and even getting trained by Mihawk that zoro will still lose low diff, meaning that Mihawk required no more effort to beat him the second time than it did the first time? I completely agree that Mihawk will beat Zoro using his strongest sword or even second strongest if he has one, I even think he can stalemate Zoro with a knife, not because Zoro is weak and can't beat a knife but because Mihawk wouldn't allow Zoro to beat him regardless of the weapon. We have seen Mihawk low diff Zoro with a knife so if Mihawk has to put more effort into beating Zoro with that same knife then it's not low diff.

 

[ZoroXTashigi]

I believe the baratie Zoro vs Mihawk is a stomp fight not low diff. And I do believe even use Yoru, Zoro can push Mihawk to midd diff, because I can see Zoro close to Vista. But don't take me wrong, even if Mihawk using knife or shinai he still beat Zoro with mid diff, because it's doesn't matter what your weapon, if you are strong, anything can became deadly weapon (even Kuzan using grass). Similar with Shanks, even he loss one his arm, his power doesn't decrease at all.

 

[Punk Hazard]

isnt difficulty determined by how much effort you put in to win? Yes Mihawk puts in less effort with a stronger sword but that has nothing to do with the effort of another weapon. If Mihawk low diff Zoro way back when with that knife do you think that after several years of training and fighting strong opponents and even getting trained by Mihawk that zoro will still lose low diff, meaning that Mihawk required no more effort to beat him the second time than it did the first time? I completely agree that Mihawk will beat Zoro using his strongest sword or even second strongest if he has one, I even think he can stalemate Zoro with a knife, not because Zoro is weak and can't beat a knife but because Mihawk wouldn't allow Zoro to beat him regardless of the weapon. We have seen Mihawk low diff Zoro with a knife so if Mihawk has to put more effort into beating Zoro with that same knife then it's not low diff.

That's a really good point, I'll have to ponder on that

 

[ssjelf]

You very poorly understood what I said.

Mihawk was able to low diff Zoro in East Blue by using just enough of his strength to create a certain gap between them. I believe Mihawk can recreate that gap, even while using his knife, simply by adjusting the effort he uses to accommodate Zoro's growth in strength. Which means, using Haki, dodging, blocking attacks, etc.

He can infuse Haki into the knife so Zoro can't cut it. He can infuse Haki through his body to tank Zoro's attacks. He can use his speed to dodge them. He can use his speed to get in close and pierce Zoro's Haki with his own, stabbing him in the throat.

If Mihawk is at his peak at level 100, then Zoro will be able to beat him if he reaches that level or surpasses it. For now, he's nowhere near it, so he'll still be low diffed if Mihawk puts in enough effort.

Pretty much what giostep said. But also I fundamentally disagree with your assessment of mihawks strength using th knife. Using 100 percent effort Mihawk still shouldn't be able to recreate that gap because his total strength output has been capped by using a weaker weapon and a weapon that isn't his style. My point is to say that no matter what effort Mihawk puts in, his total strength using the knife can't be that much greater than zoro at this point in the story otherwise all of zoros training will have been a waste of our time.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Pretty much what giostep said. But also I fundamentally disagree with your assessment of mihawks strength using th knife. Using 100 percent effort Mihawk still shouldn't be able to recreate that gap because his total strength output has been capped by using a weaker weapon and a weapon that isn't his style. My point is to say that no matter what effort Mihawk puts in, his total strength using the knife can't be that much greater than zoro at this point in the story otherwise all of zoros training will have been a waste of our time.

Yeah, he can. The basis of your argument is that Mihawk can't do the same destruction he could do with Yoru or Zoro can do with his swords, so he can't produce enough effect to win. Thats the same case back in East Blue. Mihawk couldn't cut the things using that knife Zoro could with his three swords, but he still beat Zoro. Once again, Mihawk doesn't need to split mountains or send long ranged slashes with it. He can just Busoshoku to tank Zoro's attacks(power scaling also puts him as being able to blitz Zoro), and stab him a few times in the throat, then continue dodging and tanking till poor Zoro bleeds out or loses air from all the holes in his windpipe.

I do suppose it wouldn't be "low diff" technically due to the level of strength Mihawk uses but it wouldn't be high or extreme and he wouldn't sustain anti injuries.

Stop saying Zoro's training would have been for nothing. You know that losing to Mihawk right now wouldn't mean he basically made no progress because this time it would require Mihawk to use Haki, to actually block and to actually dodge and actually move. That means progress. It just means Zoro has not progressed enough to match the physical stats of a Yonko level fighter

 

[ssjelf]

Yeah, he can. The basis of your argument is that Mihawk can't do the same destruction he could do with Yoru or Zoro can do with his swords, so he can't produce enough effect to win. Thats the same case back in East Blue. Mihawk couldn't cut the things using that knife Zoro could with his three swords, but he still beat Zoro. Once again, Mihawk doesn't need to split mountains or send long ranged slashes with it. He can just Busoshoku to tank Zoro's attacks(power scaling also puts him as being able to blitz Zoro), and stab him a few times in the throat, then continue dodging and tanking till poor Zoro bleeds out or loses air from all the holes in his windpipe.

I do suppose it wouldn't be "low diff" technically due to the level of strength Mihawk uses but it wouldn't be high or extreme and he wouldn't sustain anti injuries.

Stop saying Zoro's training would have been for nothing. You know that losing to Mihawk right now wouldn't mean he basically made no progress because this time it would require Mihawk to use Haki, to actually block and to actually dodge and actually move. That means progress. It just means Zoro has not progressed enough to match the physical stats of a Yonko level fighter

Losing low diff means he has made little to no progress. If you check my original post I said zoro loses mid high diff (max) I think he could push him to high diff though. And the argument boils down to certain swords have more attack power as a whole, not just cutting though the opponents swords. So mihawks knife will also have a harder time damaging zoro even though he has superior Haki. Mihawk cannot cut zoro like he did with yoru back in chapter 30 if he wasn't using yoru. Better swords also likely mean better flying slash attacks. It would be very difficult to attack zoro with a short knife now and the knife won't damage zoro as much as it used to.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Losing low diff means he has made little to no progress. If you check my original post I said zoro loses mid high diff (max) I think he could push him to high diff though. And the argument boils down to certain swords have more attack power as a whole, not just cutting though the opponents swords. So mihawks knife will also have a harder time damaging zoro even though he has superior Haki. Mihawk cannot cut zoro like he did with yoru back in chapter 30 if he wasn't using yoru. Better swords also likely mean better flying slash attacks. It would be very difficult to attack zoro with a short knife now and the knife won't damage zoro as much as it used to.

Alabasta Zoro is stronger than East Blue Zoro. If Alabasta Zoro fought knife Mihawk, what diff does Mihawk win at?

By empowering it with his Haki, yes, he can. And even if it doesn't do as much damage, he can just puncture his wind pipe with a few good blitzes and Zoro dies from the inability to breathe.

 

[ssjelf]

Alabasta Zoro is stronger than East Blue Zoro. If Alabasta Zoro fought knife Mihawk, what diff does Mihawk win at?

By empowering it with his Haki, yes, he can. And even if it doesn't do as much damage, he can just puncture his wind pipe with a few good blitzes and Zoro dies from the inability to breathe.

Alabasta zoro loses low diff, zoro up to saobody likely loses low diff. What does this prove? With a two year time skip zoros strength increase has been much more than anything that happened between east blue and saobody. the difference being that zoro trained directly under Mihawk. And now that we are supposedly 70% complete, if zoro hasn't improved enough to not lose low diff to knife Mihawk then the time skip was a waste.

Zoro skill, speed and strength has also improved. Mihawk needs a more suitable weapon and more powerful weapon to blitz zoro like you describe.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Alabasta zoro loses low diff, zoro up to saobody likely loses low diff. What does this prove? With a two year time skip zoros strength increase has been much more than anything that happened between east blue and saobody. the difference being that zoro trained directly under Mihawk. And now that we are supposedly 70% complete, if zoro hasn't improved enough to not lose low diff to knife Mihawk then the time skip was a waste.

Zoro skill, speed and strength has also improved. Mihawk needs a more suitable weapon and more powerful weapon to blitz zoro like you describe.

It proves Zoro can make progress and still lose low diff. So, that little favorite of yours goes out the window. Zoro can lose no diff and it'll still be progress. No, the time was not a waste, you are severely overestimating it. 2 years isn't enough to master the basics of Haki in most cases, but that's supposed to be some huge substantial gap? No, it was meant to prepare them to enter the New World. Traveling through the NW and gaining experience is what will prepare them for people like Mihawk, not 2 years of mastering the basics of an ability Mihawk has probably had for decades.

Not enough for a Yonko level opponent when Luffy, his superior, is still on questionable standing with someone like Doflamingo with Law's, another superior's, help.

 

[ssjelf]

It proves Zoro can make progress and still lose low diff. So, that little favorite of yours goes out the window. Zoro can lose no diff and it'll still be progress. No, the time was not a waste, you are severely overestimating it. 2 years isn't enough to master the basics of Haki in most cases, but that's supposed to be some huge substantial gap? No, it was meant to prepare them to enter the New World. Traveling through the NW and gaining experience is what will prepare them for people like Mihawk, not 2 years of mastering the basics of an ability Mihawk has probably had for decades.

Not enough for a Yonko level opponent when Luffy, his superior, is still on questionable standing with someone like Doflamingo with Law's, another superior's, help.

Mihawk isn't yonko level using his knife

And it's still a waste of 2 years of fighting Mihawk, because if he can't overcome an obstacle that defeated him back in East blue after then he really hasn't actually accomplished anything. Progress sure, but it's a waste because he failed to overcome that barrier

 

[Punk Hazard]

Mihawk isn't yonko level using his knife

And it's still a waste of 2 years of fighting Mihawk, because if he can't overcome an obstacle that defeated him back in East blue after then he really hasn't actually accomplished anything. Progress sure, but it's a waste because he failed to overcome that barrier

He still has Yonko level speed, stamina, strength, endurance and durability. Only thing hindered is his offensive power, which doesn't matter much because speed blitz followed by a wind pipe stab.

Keep telling yourself that, it's clear you didn't understand the point of the training and I'm sure you think it makes sense for Rayleigh to say two years isn't enough for the basics, but that's enough time to shoot Zoro from being one shotted by Kuma to pushing Mihawk's speed, durability, endurance and stamina to mid or high diff. All of which is Yonko class based on portrayal so far. Meanwhile, two men of his superior barely brought down someone below Yonko.

He overcame that barrier. Haki and Yonko level stats are just the new ones in his face and he's not ready for that yet.