How Kaguya should have been Introduced

[Rohan]

I've read your analysis of this relationship before, and this was likely Kishi's intent. However, as a reader, I wasn't looking for an alternate identity, so the anticipation of the reveal wasn't adequately set up. For me, her character just meant another 10 chapters in what was starting to feel like a rapid succession of villains.

Kaguya had two identities which were shown : Her will Black Zetsu who was introduced by the end of Part 1 (Way before Tobi, Pain and Madara were introduced) and The Juubi which was introduced in Five Kage Summit Arc and had a lot of significance in the War Arc.

Both the Mask Characters, i.e; Black Zetsu and Juubi had a huge role in the manga; Black Zetsu manipulated all the major villains (save for Orochimaru) and The Juubi was the end goal for all the Villains (Juubi was foreshadowed in Part 1 also as Akatsuki wanted all Nine Bijuus). So, Kaguya's role in the story was already massive (Way more than all the Villains) but her contribution was hidden.

When Tobi was introduced, Obito had Zero Character or Plot Development (Except for that short Gaiden which was pretty much a short story as it was not included in the main manga), Both only happened when the mask came off. As a result, the reveal was shocking even if it got diluted (Thanks to those flashbacks). If Kishi had developed the character of Obito before the mask came off, the whole Mystery and Shock plot elements will fall flat.

The same is with Kaguya, Kishi did not show her true identity until the last moment, and both the reveals of Kaguya being Black Zetsu and the Juubi were pretty shocking (In my opinion the shock effect was more than the Tobi reveal simply because of Madara's fall).

So yeah,what you consider a fault is actually what was intended by Kishi to be considered something good. This was mostly to add mystery and shock elements.

 

[NineSNS]

Kaguya had two identities which were shown : Her will Black Zetsu who was introduced by the end of Part 1 (Way before Tobi, Pain and Madara were introduced) and The Juubi which was introduced in Five Kage Summit Arc and had a lot of significance in the War Arc.

Both the Mask Characters, i.e; Black Zetsu and Juubi had a huge role in the manga; Black Zetsu manipulated all the major villains (save for Orochimaru) and The Juubi was the end goal for all the Villains (Juubi was foreshadowed in Part 1 also as Akatsuki wanted all Nine Bijuus). So, Kaguya's role in the story was already massive (Way more than all the Villains) but her contribution was hidden.

When Tobi was introduced, Obito had Zero Character or Plot Development (Except for that short Gaiden which was pretty much a short story as it was not included in the main manga), Both only happened when the mask came off. As a result, the reveal was shocking even if it got diluted (Thanks to those flashbacks). If Kishi had developed the character of Obito before the mask came off, the whole Mystery and Shock plot elements will fall flat.

The same is with Kaguya, Kishi did not show her true identity until the last moment, and both the reveals of Kaguya being Black Zetsu and the Juubi were pretty shocking (In my opinion the shock effect was more than the Tobi reveal simply because of Madara's fall).

So yeah,what you consider a fault is actually what was intended by Kishi to be considered something good. This was mostly to add mystery and shock elements.

Somewhere in this explanation I'm sure that my intelligence was insulted, but I got too caught up in what you were saying to be able to point right to it. XD Nice explanation, though. Sorry can't rep you. Please accept these instead :flowers.

 

[Lia]

Naruto and sasuke should have had an awesome battle against madara until they all were destroyed and all weakened, (...) Rather Madara let Himself be transformed into Kaguya with an evil smile telling Naruto and Sasuke they would never win.

Wow, never thought about that, but it sounds really great!!!
But then Kaguya would have had to be a much better and deeper character than just be like Gollum with " my precious!!" (chakra in that case). The way she was written can only be described as 'pathetic'.

Oh and cutting away the Juubito-Arc.
Obito should've died to Rinne Tensei directly after his fight with Kakashi in the Kamui Dimension. That would've given Kishimoto enough time.

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

OP would've softened the blow, alright. Still would've been outrageous though.

 

[Angelic.]

Kaguya had two identities which were shown : Her will Black Zetsu who was introduced by the end of Part 1 (Way before Tobi, Pain and Madara were introduced) and The Juubi which was introduced in Five Kage Summit Arc and had a lot of significance in the War Arc.

Both the Mask Characters, i.e; Black Zetsu and Juubi had a huge role in the manga; Black Zetsu manipulated all the major villains (save for Orochimaru) and The Juubi was the end goal for all the Villains (Juubi was foreshadowed in Part 1 also as Akatsuki wanted all Nine Bijuus). So, Kaguya's role in the story was already massive (Way more than all the Villains) but her contribution was hidden.

When Tobi was introduced, Obito had Zero Character or Plot Development (Except for that short Gaiden which was pretty much a short story as it was not included in the main manga), Both only happened when the mask came off. As a result, the reveal was shocking even if it got diluted (Thanks to those flashbacks). If Kishi had developed the character of Obito before the mask came off, the whole Mystery and Shock plot elements will fall flat.

The same is with Kaguya, Kishi did not show her true identity until the last moment, and both the reveals of Kaguya being Black Zetsu and the Juubi were pretty shocking (In my opinion the shock effect was more than the Tobi reveal simply because of Madara's fall).

So yeah,what you consider a fault is actually what was intended by Kishi to be considered something good. This was mostly to add mystery and shock elements.

obviously an ancient evil will be fv bc when people mess with that stuff they get burnt. the problem is that bz was just a zetsu that followed tobis orders and did surveilance until it was revealed he was madaras will then hashi sensing something at vote wich we had to guess on. obito got flashbacks (and gaiden is canon) unlike bz. bz and kaguya suck lol

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

Kaguya revived the Hyuuga. She made sure to make the Uchiha fans salty.

 

[SatanicGod]

Agreed; there was never a real "Fight" against Juubi Jin Madara. It was a drawn-out cluster**** of ninjas feebly trying to hold him off until Naruto/Sasuke returned with their power-ups, and then neither side really had a chance to go all-out before Madara was backstabbed. Madara deserved to go out with a "bang", not a fizzle.

Also, Kaguya needed far more development. It would have been good to get some flashbacks to see her perspective (why she was driven to eat the fruit, what caused her to succumb to lust for power, etc.). Kishi has admitted, in interviews, that he was given a strict time limit, roughly around that time, and that he was forced to wrap up his manga sooner than expected.. so Kaguya appears to be the rushed result.

How come Kishi has to have a time limit, yet series like One Piece have as much time as they want??

 

[Lia]

Where was the point of Kaguya anyway?

The story also would've fit if Hagoromo was a normal human-priest who ate the holy fruit to stop wars in narutoverse. The Shinju could've been a godly tree like Yggdrasil which was 'just there'. After the fruit was stolen, it got mad and turned into the Juubi. Hagoromo with godly powers defeated that monster and created the moon. After that he had two sons and bla bla, so it all began.

No Need for Kaguya, Hamura, Ootsutsuki-Aliens in general who travel through the universe to plant several Shinjus.
Kishi ****ed it all up pretty badly.

 

[Rohan]

Somewhere in this explanation I'm sure that my intelligence was insulted, but I got too caught up in what you were saying to be able to point right to it. XD Nice explanation, though. Sorry can't rep you. Please accept these instead :flowers.

Thank You. :bdpf:

obviously an ancient evil will be fv bc when people mess with that stuff they get burnt. the problem is that bz was just a zetsu that followed tobis orders and did surveilance until it was revealed he was madaras will then hashi sensing something at vote wich we had to guess on. obito got flashbacks (and gaiden is canon) unlike bz. bz and kaguya suck lol

You cannot use that as a basis cause it's plot progression. Kishi was trying to throw us off by changing Black Zetsu's role multiple times. It's kinda slight but Kishi also tried to throw us off by making us believe that Tobi was actually Danzo in disguise. Black Zetsu was the real mastermind and it's a given he would be very flexible in changing roles just like how Tobi was flexible (First Goofy Tobi, Then Madara, Then Nobody). Their flexibility was their attempts to disguise their true identities and throw people off track.

Bold : Yeah the Kakashi Gaiden is cannon, but it was published separately. There are high chances that first time readers might skip it completely and when they see the Obito reveal they will be like "Who the hell is Obito ?". Ironically in that case, Kaguya actually had multiple flashbacks by both Madara and Hagoromo before she was revealed in the main manga, but Obito ? He had none.

 

[Seventh Sama]

Where was the point of Kaguya anyway?

The story also would've fit if Hagoromo was a normal human-priest who ate the holy fruit to stop wars in narutoverse. The Shinju could've been a godly tree like Yggdrasil which was 'just there'. After the fruit was stolen, it got mad and turned into the Juubi. Hagoromo with godly powers defeated that monster and created the moon. After that he had two sons and bla bla, so it all began.

No Need for Kaguya, Hamura, Ootsutsuki-Aliens in general who travel through the universe to plant several Shinjus.
Kishi ****ed it all up pretty badly.

She was just a gateway for more spinoffs.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Where was the point of Kaguya anyway?

The story also would've fit if Hagoromo was a normal human-priest who ate the holy fruit to stop wars in narutoverse. The Shinju could've been a godly tree like Yggdrasil which was 'just there'. After the fruit was stolen, it got mad and turned into the Juubi. Hagoromo with godly powers defeated that monster and created the moon. After that he had two sons and bla bla, so it all began.

No Need for Kaguya, Hamura, Ootsutsuki-Aliens in general who travel through the universe to plant several Shinjus.
Kishi ****ed it all up pretty badly.

I like this version. It removes Kaguya and lets me blame Hagoromo for everything even more than i already do.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Where was the point of Kaguya anyway?

The story also would've fit if Hagoromo was a normal human-priest who ate the holy fruit to stop wars in narutoverse. The Shinju could've been a godly tree like Yggdrasil which was 'just there'. After the fruit was stolen, it got mad and turned into the Juubi. Hagoromo with godly powers defeated that monster and created the moon. After that he had two sons and bla bla, so it all began.

No Need for Kaguya, Hamura, Ootsutsuki-Aliens in general who travel through the universe to plant several Shinjus.
Kishi ****ed it all up pretty badly.

Just because Kishi failed at properly developing Kaguya and Otsutsuki, you say the idea is fuked up badly. The idea is great for me if properly developed. All Kishi doing was planned by him earlier but the deadline is to short. Kishi couldnt change his original plan all of sudden.

He stated in interview about Villains route=Madara>Juubi/Kaguya>Sasuke. See

 

[Uchihakil]

I think we should've had a final battle between Naruto n sasuke vs Madara with both teams at their prime.. then after madara got weaken by sasuke and Naruto this is when black zetzu should've interfered it would made more sense.. taking out weak madara. taking him out in his prime was BS. Anyways I feel like kishi revealed too less about kaguya. who could've been an awesome villain 20 chapters does not make a great villain. She came and got sealed poor written to be honest,

exactly what i told ma friends some while back,

 

[KesOnFire]

Tell that to kishi lol

 

[MAN OF SIN]

The whole point was that neither Naruto or Sasuke were able to take Madara down in his prime.

Only Plot Combination Asspull No Jutsu could.

He was simply just to OP for them. .....even though i see your point; they couldnt do it. And remember... with Madara at his prime Sasuke would not have access to the Bijuu which would mean no Indras Arrow. Again Only Plot Combination Asspull No Jutsu was able to defeat him (Madara)...

This has been debunked many times by the fact that the Kaguya stuff was alluded to before even Obito became a Juubi jin. Even by Kishi himself saying that because he didn't have enough time.

 

[Lia]

Just because Kishi failed at properly developing Kaguya and Otsutsuki, you say the idea is fuked up badly. The idea is great for me if properly developed. All Kishi doing was planned by him earlier but the deadline is to short. Kishi couldnt change his original plan all of sudden.

He stated in interview about Villains route=Madara>Juubi/Kaguya>Sasuke. See

Yeah yeah, he went all DBZ-wank in the end.
As an author/writer you can't just establish an ancient Alien-race in the last like 5% of the manga, that's stupid storytelling. Narutoverse was totally fine without cosmic/space things.
Even if he had developed it 200 or 300 chapters before the end, I would've still disliked the Alien-conspiracy. If i want something like that then I watch DBZ. But this has nothing to do with a great developed, deep Story like naruto had until the pain arc or the kage summit.