ezequielosses (MS Kakashi) vs NSUNSR (MS Obito)

NSUNSR · Aug 19, 2015

In my second post i will explain why Kakashi isn't besting Obito at Cqc, Obito's wining strategy, and countering my opponent's post.

Why Obito >= Kakashi in Cqc:

There are three reasons as to why Obito is besting Kakashi in CQC:

The weapon: Obito can use his chakra rods --> (

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) to fight Kakashi, which can disrupt ones chakra --> (

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), and can also be made longer --> (

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). Furthermore Obito can use fuma shurikens to fight with. --> (

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) - (

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) - (

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) Finally Obito has dealy Mokuton techniques, which can esily pierce trough an enemy --> (

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), and are fast enough to trap Naruto. --> (

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) While they may not be capabe of instantly killing Kakashi, the can damage him, reducing his speed and reflexes, making this fight easier for Obito.

Speed: Obito is capable of dodging KCM Naruto's attack point blank, while in mid air --> (

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) Here is another scan of Obito dodging KCM Naruto's attack, while in mid air, and barely a meter away from his attacker. --> (

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) The fact that Obito covered the distance from the 5 tails to the 8 tails is also very impressive. You could say that he used Kamui, but there is no indication of him doing so. Young Obito is able to imress Minato so much, he is mistaken for Madara by Minato. --> (

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) Obito ws even able to match Minato in speed, before Minato teleported. --> (

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) Obito is surely not inferior to Kakashi in speed.

Stamina: Obito has massive chakra reserves, allowing him to clash with Kakashi for as long as he wants. Unfortunately for Kakashi, the same thing can't be said for him, and he will eventually tire himself.

Countering my opponent's post:

1- As NSUNR already stated, one of Kakashi’s strategies would be sending a clone to the kamui dimension. After Obito sees Kakashi has sent a clone to the kamui dimension he’d choose to fight without using intangibility, since if he uses it, he gets striked from the clone in the pocket dimension. This gives Kakashi a massive advantage because it forces Obito to fight without his strongest jutsu (ghost mode). Then Kakashi would beat him on base skills given the fact that Obito relies too much on Kamui while Kakashi has decent feats on all categories too.

Refer to my explanation, as why Kakashi isn't besting Obito in Cqc.

2- The second one is Kakashi’s easiest way to win. If kakashi can perform this, Obito is screwed and it would be a low-med diff win for Kakashi. This strategy is about sending the clone to the other dimension without Obito noticing it. As it happened in cannon, if Obito doesn’t know there’s a clone on the other dimension, he’d fight normally using his ghost mode, which is why he got his mask broken.
All Kakashi has to do is to make a mud wall to block Obito’s LoS, and then send the clone away with kamui without Obito knowing it. After that he only needs to strike Obito so he turns intangible and then the other clone stabs him from the other dimension. Kakashi can also perform this strategy by going underground, if he used hiding like a mole, and makes the clone underground and warps it away, there’s no way Obito would know Kakashi has a clone on the pocket dimension.
This strategy is the best way for Kakashi to win.
To clear misconceptions from the first minute:
-Kakashi’s Kamui is too fast for Obito’s eyesight, so if Kakashi plays right, Obito won’t see the warping of the clone, ever.Inb4 someone says he was able to stop Kakashi’s kamui against gedo mazo, thus making it obvious he can see Kakashi’s kamui. When Kakashi warps a big object (such as the gedo mazo’s head) the warping takes more time, which gave Obito more time to react. Here are two examples of Kakashi’s kamui being faster than what Obito can perceive when the objects were smaller than the gedo mazo’s head:

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-Inb4 someone says Kakashi’s clone wouldn’t get the chance to strike Obito from the other dimension because he wouldn’t know where Obito’s body parts are gonna spawn, let me say that its pretty clear that the clone would know where Obito is on the real dimension, letting him know where is he gonna spawn on the pocket dimension when he goes intangible. Proof? Here:

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Kakashi warped exactly where Obito was. How’s that possible? Kakashi knows where Obito is from the pocket dimension, so his clone would know where to be when Obito uses ghost mode.

Creating a mud wall, without being attacked, and the fact that Obito has already fallen prey to this strategy, will make Obito suspicious, thus leading him to investigate Kakashi's actions. The fastest way to do this, is for Obito to use hiding like a mole, when Kakashi creates the mud wall. This way Obito will be able to sense Kakashi's clone, and also notice how it disappears. This will hint to Obito, that Kakashi has sent a clone to the Kamui dimension. You could argue, that Kakashi could wait for Obito to use his fuma shurickens at Kakashi, but Obito can then fastly phase through the wall, before Kakashi has any chance to make a shadow clone. --> (

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Okay no to counter NSUNS arguments.

This is only viable if Kakashi uses strategy n°1, which is letting Obito know he has a clone on the pocket dimension. If Kakashi does it secretly then he would suffer the same fate as he did against BM Naruto’s clone.
Anyways, even if things were to play out like this, Kakashi still beats Obito due to his superior feats on base skills that don’t involve Kamui.

Refer to my explanation, as to why Kakashi isn't besting Obito in Cqc.

Bold: How come? You should counter everything.

Not necessarily in the first post.

I tought this was MS Obito without chakra rods (which come from rinnegan) but okay.

Ms Obito has used chakra rods. --> (

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) Even if he didn't have chakra rods, i have already stated, that Obito's elemental attacks, will counter lighting hound.

I must concede on the fact that long ranged jutsus are not helping Kakashi here. He would only win with the usage of clone feints, superior CQC and speed. None of Kakashi’s long range jutsus are useful against someone like Obito if he has chakra rods.
Anyways:
-Giant fireball jutsu: Gets countered by going underground, as Kakashi did to Itachi:

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-Katom bombm blast dance: The same as above, Kakashi goes underground. This jutsu is bigger but still doesn’t reach underground.

Agreed.

-Mokuton techs: These are easely dodged or overpowered by Kakashi’s raiden and raikiri. Kakashi’s speed feats are too good to say he would get caught by that jutsu.

True, but valid only if Obito uses Mokuton for ranged attacks.

-He reacted to a v2 jin strike, which were fast enough to given even KM Naruto could react properly. Kakashi’s feats get even better when he fights 4 of them just by his own. I’ll post it after showing this:

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KCM Naruto was fighting against multiple opponents at the same time, who had two major advantages, which V2 jiinchuruki lack. Rinnengan for shared vision, and Sharingan to calculate the best timing to attack, or avoid an attack. --> (

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) When these two abilities combine, you get both nigh impossible to dodge attacks, coupled with extreme difficulty, to land a hit on the enemy. Your other two scans show that Kakashi can't dodge the jins attacks, and relies on blocking their attack instead, so they actually work against you. --> (

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-He kept up with 4 v2 jins all by himself until Naruto came out of the 4 tail’s stomach. Since its clearly showed, Bee and Naruto were bussy against Son Goku, Gai was bussy against the 5 tails in full BM, and Kakashi was bussy against the remaining 4 jins which were all in v2 form, look at the bottom panel on the right

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The scan you have only shows Kakashi cutting trough the jins hands, and not fighting face to face with them. Kakashi can't keep up with jins. His attacks are either dodged --> (

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), or he isn't able an attack form a jins. --> (

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) Whatever way you look at it Kakashi has done badly against jins. Not to mention that Kakashi was only fighting one jin straight on in these scans. One V2 jin is all you need to best Kakashi in Cqc, saing that he can keep up with 4 at a time is ridiculous.

The rest of the fight was outpaneled. But Kakashi survived against them sustaining no injuries until the moment naruto came out of the bijuu’s stomach 2 chapters after that.

And since it was oitpanneled, we cant give Kakashi nonexistent feats.

So Kakashi is not getting caught by Obito’s mokuton in a million years. He dodges it or destroys it with raiden.
So if Kakashi sends a clone to the other dimension in front of Obito’s nose, thus making him fight without his intangibility, he beats him due to his superior taijutsu skills, reflexes and clone feints abilities. He could keep up with 4 v2 jins at the same time so he is definitely faster than Obito sunshin wise. Obito has no feats of a striking speed good enough to match 4 v2 jins at the same time without Kamui

I have already proven you wrong on this subject.

-First of all, you’re underrating Kakashi’s clone. Lightining clone is not like a normal bunshin, it’s a lot stronger and faster. It’s almost as strong as fast as the real Kakashi. Look here, he was still a lot faster than Pain, and he could even perform chidori variants. So lightining clone is not weak as normal clones are.

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The clone was even able to use lightining wolf technique. So if Obito tries to take the clone down with wood technqiques (which I already addressed are too weak to take down Kakashi) then the clone destroys it with a chidori variant, or simply avoids it. He’s faster than Obito.

The weakness of a clone, is that it becomes obvious its a clone, once it is hurt. All that Obito needs to do is scratch Kakashi, ad this will be extremely easy, as his jutsu has a good range --> (

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) and was able to catch BM Nauto, who is far faster than Kakashi off guard. --> (

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) Now you might rgue, that these are different jutsus, so they aren't with the same speed, but if anything, Obito's piercing jutsu is faster, as it aims straight at the opponent, while the jutsu he used against Naruto, was trying to go around all of Naruto's body.

-Second of all, you’re assuming Kakashi would wait until his clone gets destroyed to pup of the ground, which is fallacious, why would he do that?

Maybe because he has never fought with a clone at the same time? Clones have been proven to be best at examiing the opponent, or distracting them. Unless they are a lot, they are useless in combat, and easy to make go "poof".

The clone is merely a distraction, as soon as Obito goes chasing after the clone, he can take the chance and come up and surprise Obito.

You sound as if Obito will be not be aware of his surroundings. Itachi's 30% clone has already reacted to kakashi's underground attacks. --> (

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) I don't see why Obito can't do the same.

-Third of all, you’re overrating Obito’s mokuton capabilities. Obito’s mokuton is not as strong as when he used it against those fodder shinobis. He was using zetsu as a armour and that’s why he could use that technique so well. We already saw how much mokuton techs improve when the user is using Zetsu as an armour, look at what Yamato did to the Gokage.

In no way am i overrating Obito's mokuton abilities. He has the chakra to contol 6 bijuus at the same time, and use Kamui multiple times with 0 exhaustion. He was able to contol the Juubi with his Mokuton (though with Madaras help too) --> (

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) and could channel his chakra into the Juubi to make it shoot hundreds of huge wooden spikes. --> (

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Obito’s mokuton without Zetsu is like this:

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No where near the level of the one he used when he was with zetsu. This one was barely able to restrain Naruto (which didn’t work because naruto scaped easely).
Those dangerous spikes made of wood are clearly Zetsu’s powers, not Obito’s. Look here, Zetsu performed it without Obito. Yamato didn’t have that ability either.

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I have already explained why Obito's Mokuton is still very powerful. Not only did Naruto get caught off guard by Obito's Mokuton, nut he was also forced to headbutt Obiton, in order to escape from it. --> (

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Anyways, even if Obito could perform it without zetsu, that’s not getting Kakashi with that.
Obito has no way to beat Kakashi without his intangibility. Kakashi bests him in speed, reflexes and has better attacks. If Obito uses to use intangibility he gets killed by the clone on the pocket dimension.

If Kakashi goes for strategy n2 (which is not letting Obito know he sent a clone to the kamui dimension) Obito won’t find a reason to fight without intangibility and use it as its easier to fight that way, and then he gets beaten like it happened to him against Naruto.
Konoha’s copy cat ninja > Akatsuki’s ghost.

Addressed already.

Finishing Kakashi off:

With Obito's superior weaponry, speed equal or even greater to that of Kakashi, and far greater stamina than Kakashi, it is as clear as day, that Obito will best Kakashi in close combat. After some time Kakashi will tire out, allowing for Obito to finish him off. It is also highly likely for Obito to restrain, or hurt Kakashi with his mokton, making this fight even easier.

Real Akatsuki Leader >>> Copy Clown :bdpf:

EZQ · Aug 20, 2015

Nice post NSUNSR i'm just out of a surgery so i'll reply in a while, i'm still dizzy so i don't have the energy to counter ribht now

EZQ · Aug 20, 2015

NSUNSR said:
In my second post i will explain why Kakashi isn't besting Obito at Cqc, Obito's wining strategy, and countering my opponent's post.
Why Obito >= Kakashi in Cqc:

There are three reasons as to why Obito is besting Kakashi in CQC:

The weapon: Obito can use his chakra rods --> (
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) to fight Kakashi, which can disrupt ones chakra --> (
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), and can also be made longer --> (
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). Furthermore Obito can use fuma shurikens to fight with. --> (
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) - (
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) - (
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) Finally Obito has dealy Mokuton techniques, which can esily pierce trough an enemy --> (
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), and are fast enough to trap Naruto. --> (
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) While they may not be capabe of instantly killing Kakashi, the can damage him, reducing his speed and reflexes, making this fight easier for Obito.

-Kakashi has already been hurt by chakra rods (by pain and by Obito himself). So he would fight avoiding enterin in contact with them since he knows they’re dangerous. Kakashi is an expert dealing with opponents with weapons. Hence Hidan and Zabuza are experts CQC users with weapons, and Kakashi stalemated both with barely a kunai.

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Obito’s feats with chakra rods are not enough to say he can give Kakashi trouble, since Kakashi himself has already proved to be very effective in CQC even against enemies with better weapons than Obito’s.

-Obito only got Naruto with that Mokuton because he was too close to him and Naruto was there protecting Kakashi worried about him. Not to mention, Naruto was able to move and clash his head against Obito’s while being restrained by it, meaning its strength is not that high. Kakashi with his sharingan pre-cog would react to that mokuton and wouldn’t be restrained since he has very good speed at dodging (as I showed in my first post against the jins). And why do you keep showing scans of Zetsu’s mokuton? Obito can’t make those spikes, simple. Without those spikes Obito’s only option is restraining Mokuton which can be countered by slicing it with raikiri.

Speed: Obito is capable of dodging KCM Naruto's attack point blank, while in mid air --> (
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) Here is another scan of Obito dodging KCM Naruto's attack, while in mid air, and barely a meter away from his attacker. --> (
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) The fact that Obito covered the distance from the 5 tails to the 8 tails is also very impressive. You could say that he used Kamui, but there is no indication of him doing so. Young Obito is able to imress Minato so much, he is mistaken for Madara by Minato. --> (
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) Obito ws even able to match Minato in speed, before Minato teleported. --> (
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) Obito is surely not inferior to Kakashi in speed.

-Obito dodging that attack was situational. His fan was plugged between those floating rocks and all he had to do was to pull the rope so he could move out of the way. In this fight he has no floating rocks since he’s no summoning the gedo mazo. His speed alone is not enough to dodge that attack being as every other time he faced KM Naruto’s same chakra arm attack he used kamui instead of dodging. The second scan you posted is about him going intangible, nothing related to his foot speed.
-Obito covering a large distance is not impressive since we don’t have a parameter to know how much time it took him to perform that move. By that logic, it’s a very impressive feat for Kakashi too since he already reached that position from far away (since he was no where to be seen before)

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-

What proof is that of Obito keeping up with Minato’s speed? They were both running against eachother. If I start running against a car and the car is coming against me at full speed, and someone takes a photo of the moment we clash, does that photo show that I’m as fast as the car? Hell no. Also, Minato was not going at full speed there, his plan was to teleport just when Obito was about to grab him, so he needed to make Obito think he could grab him so he deactivated his intangibility. Null argument.
-Here are more of Kakashi’s speed feats to stop this subject:

*Kakashi dodged a point blank attack with a very huge AoE of surprise while being mid air. Getting out of that AoE so fast indicates high sunshin speed and reaction speed.

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*Kakashi intercepted Sasuke’s chidori and he was no where near when sasuke made it.

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*Kakashi outspeeded Sasuke on their little CQC encounter.

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*Kakashi intercepted ration gian and was no where near to be seen before

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*Sakura made a (!) of Kakashi’s speed. He was standing some meter behind her and as soon as she gave a step forward Kakashi was already several mts on her front.

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Stamina: Obito has massive chakra reserves, allowing him to clash with Kakashi for as long as he wants. Unfortunately for Kakashi, the same thing can't be said for him, and he will eventually tire himself.

Kakashi doesn’t need a lot of stamina to end this fight. Plus, he’s no baby when it comes to chakra. On the war arc he used
5 Kamui ; 8 raikiris, 2 bunshin and 2 doton wall before getting chakra refill from the kiuuby.
Anyways it’s irrelevant, since this wouldn’t be a dragged out battle since he only needs to beat one enemy, and he has the right jutsu to do so (kamui).

Countering my opponent's post:
Refer to my explanation, as why Kakashi isn't besting Obito in Cqc.

-Kakashi showed to be more than able to manage against opponents with weapons like he did against Pain, Hidan and Zabuza. Plus his fight against the v2 jins is also proof since their tails and chakra arms are also like powerful weapons. Mokuton gets countered by raikiri or dodged. BM Naruto was trapped because he was there to stop obito killing Kakashi, and Obito’s dangerous Mokuton can’t be made without zetsu.
-Obito’s speed, while good, is not at Kakashi’s level as I already debunked your minato argument, and showed more of Kakashi’s feats.
-Stamina is not a huge factor.

Creating a mud wall, without being attacked, and the fact that Obito has already fallen prey to this strategy, will make Obito suspicious, thus leading him to investigate Kakashi's actions. The fastest way to do this, is for Obito to use hiding like a mole, when Kakashi creates the mud wall. This way Obito will be able to sense Kakashi's clone, and also notice how it disappears. This will hint to Obito, that Kakashi has sent a clone to the Kamui dimension. You could argue, that Kakashi could wait for Obito to use his fuma shurickens at Kakashi, but Obito can then fastly phase through the wall, before Kakashi has any chance to make a shadow cloneb. --> (
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Kakashi can counter this making more than one clone : Kage bunshin no jutsu Kakashi’s version.
There are at least 20 clones there. Obito won’t tell the difference if one of the clones is missing.

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So Kakashi makes 20 clones and makes the mud wall, then warps one of them (his kamui is faster than anything Obito can do as I already proved) and then fight normally. The remaining clones would be defeated easely obviously but Kakahi has already a clone on the other dimension, that only needs one strike to end this. Obito’s sensing won’t help against so many clones.
Another thing Kakashi can do and you haven’t countered is to make all the procedure under earth. Sharingan can’t see under earth (as I showed in Kakashi vs Itachi pt 2) so If kakashi makes the clone and warps it under the floor Obito is still screwed.
The bold is countered by the fact that Kakashi first makes the clones and after that he make the wall.
Tactic n°2 is still valid for Kakashi.

Refer to my explanation, as to why Kakashi isn't besting Obito in Cqc.

Yes he is. His displayed feats against the v2 jins (which in v1 and in base gave trouble to KM Naruto and Bee) are enough to say he is better than Obito in CQC, who’s speed and weapons won’t help, and his wood is not useful here.

Not necessarily in the first post.

You’re right

Ms Obito has used chakra rods. --> (
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) Even if he didn't have chakra rods, i have already stated, that Obito's elemental attacks, will counter lighting hound.

I think that’s not a chakra road but a weapon but I’m okay with Obito using chakra rods he was too restrained on this thread.
And no way he’s countering Kakashi’s long ranged attacks with elemental attacks. Lightining hound is not straight, look here Kishimoto drawed the path the wolf followed and it seems the wolf can move freely, not on a same direction, so if Obito counters it with fire Kakashi makes the wolf dodge it around.

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Agreed.

Cool

True, but valid only if Obito uses Mokuton for ranged attacks.

What’s the difference if its from close? Kakashi can cut it with raikiri if its close too. It’s a restraining mokuton, Kakasshi can destroy it as soon as it starts moving towards him or just jump back (thing that Naruto didn’t do because he was distracted and protecting kakashi).
Also, what stops Kakashi from warping the mokuton away with kamui?
In the case Obito is using it to restrain Kakashi from a really short distance Kakashi can do this

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He warps the mokuton away with kamui. He did it to susano arrows with no problem.

KCM Naruto was fighting against multiple opponents at the same time, who had two major advantages, which V2 jiinchuruki lack. Rinnengan for shared vision, and Sharingan to calculate the best timing to attack, or avoid an attack. --> (
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) When these two abilities combine, you get both nigh impossible to dodge attacks, coupled with extreme difficulty, to land a hit on the enemy. Your other two scans show that Kakashi can't dodge the jins attacks, and relies on blocking their attack instead, so they actually work against you. --> (
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-Kakashi was fighting even more opponents than Naruto. Naruto was fighting 2 v1 jins while Kakashi was fighting 4 v2 jins. And even without sharingan and rinnegan, these v2 jins had a major advantage that was the v2 cloak. V2 cloak gives an amazing power up to the jin, just watch Naruto vs Oro and see how much Naruto’s power grew. You saying Naruto was having a harder time doesn’t take merit of what Kakashi did.
Kakashi still landed rasengan on them, it didn’t pierce because they have high durability, but the speed to hit them was still there.

The scan you have only shows Kakashi cutting trough the jins hands, and not fighting face to face with them. Kakashi can't keep up with jins. His attacks are either dodged --> (
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), or he isn't able an attack form a jins. --> (
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) Whatever way you look at it Kakashi has done badly against jins. Not to mention that Kakashi was only fighting one jin straight on in these scans. One V2 jin is all you need to best Kakashi in Cqc, saing that he can keep up with 4 at a time is ridiculous.

-Chakra arms are really fast. And Kakashi still managed to slice 8 of them and avoid getting hurt.

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-He fought them face to face when he and Gai went to see if they used Pain’s abilities. His attack got dodged 1 time while it landed 2 times. Look again the pages I posted on the first post.
Bold: Kishimoto only drew one scan of him fighting one jin. After that we clearly see Kakashi and Gai both were facing 6 of them.

And since it was oitpanneled, we cant give Kakashi nonexistent feats.

I didn’t give him any feat

Kakashi kept up with 4 jins until naruto came out of the bijuu’s stomach. Even before that we’ve already seen he was able to fight them and land raikiri on them . The fact that raikiri didn’t hurt them has nothing to do with kakashi’s speed which was high enough to slice chakra arms without being hurt, dodge and cover from their strikes and land raikiri on them

I have already proven you wrong on this subject.

The weakness of a clone, is that it becomes obvious its a clone, once it is hurt. All that Obito needs to do is scratch Kakashi, ad this will be extremely easy, as his jutsu has a good range --> (
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) and was able to catch BM Nauto, who is far faster than Kakashi off guard. --> (
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) Now you might rgue, that these are different jutsus, so they aren't with the same speed, but if anything, Obito's piercing jutsu is faster, as it aims straight at the opponent, while the jutsu he used against Naruto, was trying to go around all of Naruto's body.

-The bold made me cry:
1- Kakahsi’s lighting clone is a lot stronger than normal clones. Kakashi states that it took him half of his chakra reserves. So don’t compare it to kage bunshin. This clone was very fast and was able to perfor high level jutsu as I already stated.
2- You said it yourself, Naruto was caught out of guard . Plus Naruto didn’t have a jutsu to overpower it like Kakashi’s clone would have rasengan.
-Obito doesn’t have a piercing mokuton jutsu, period. He needed Zetsu to perform it because as it seems, it’s a lot stronger than any other mokuton Obito has showed to do just by himself. And again, not even with that level of mokuton Obito is getting Kakashi or his lightining clone as he was able to react against v2 jins.

Maybe because he has never fought with a clone at the same time? Clones have been proven to be best at examiing the opponent, or distracting them. Unless they are a lot, they are useless in combat, and easy to make go "poof".

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:l
All Kakashi has to do is pop up from underground as Obito chases the clone. I never mentioned “figting at the same time with the clone”. Kakashi would use it as a distraction, nothing more.
Bold: And kakashi can make a lot of clones. A lot of fodder clones for distraction.

You sound as if Obito will be not be aware of his surroundings. Itachi's 30% clone has already reacted to kakashi's underground attacks. --> (
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) I don't see why Obito can't do the same.

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God, Itachi reacted to it because Kakashi popped right in front of him. Here, Kakashi would do the opposite. He’d send his clone up first to distract Obito and then he can pop up anywhere he wants far from Obito so he wouldn’t notice. Exactly like this:
Itachi bussy with the clone and Kakashi pops out BEFORE the clone foes poof (making Obito realize it is a clone). Just switch Obito with Itachi on this panel:

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See? Kakashi uses the clone as a distraction and can come of the ground whenever he wants and wherever he wants. In this case, Kakashi would send the clone to Obito, and he would pop up from another location to perform a back stab.
(Arguing this subject is a little silly, since once Kakashi makes the clone underground he warps it to the other dimension to follow tactic n°2 which is an easy win, I see no reason for him to send the clone up to distract Obito, but nvm, this works too)

In no way am i overrating Obito's mokuton abilities. He has the chakra to contol 6 bijuus at the same time, and use Kamui multiple times with 0 exhaustion. He was able to contol the Juubi with his Mokuton (though with Madaras help too) --> (
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) and could channel his chakra into the Juubi to make it shoot hundreds of huge wooden spikes. --> (
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All I’ve seen is you giving Obito mokuton abilities he can’t perform without Zetsu, period. (And if you think they’re useful against someone with Kakashi’s reflexes is ridiculouss. Plus, any incoming mokuton can be warped away with kamui if they are too close to kakashi from him to dodge them. Or in the case he in fact gets restrained by the wood)

I have already explained why Obito's Mokuton is still very powerful. Not only did Naruto get caught off guard by Obito's Mokuton, nut he was also forced to headbutt Obiton, in order to escape from it. --> (
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Very powerful? “restrained” naruto could move easely on it. And again, Naruto was distracted.
Kakashi’s sharingan pre-cog (which allowed him to react to susano arrows, v2 jins, etc…) is not falling to that mokuton. He destroys it when its coming against him.
Kakashi can warp the wood away with kamui too.

Addressed already.
Finishing Kakashi off:

With Obito's superior weaponry, speed equal or even greater to that of Kakashi, and far greater stamina than Kakashi, it is as clear as day, that Obito will best Kakashi in close combat. After some time Kakashi will tire out, allowing for Obito to finish him off. It is also highly likely for Obito to restrain, or hurt Kakashi with his mokton, making this fight even easier.

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The bold is hilarious.
-Kakashi has already showed to fight opponents with big weapons with just a kunai. His reflexes and speed allow him to do so.
-His speed feats are greater than Obito’s. You didn’t interpretate the scans of him against the jins properly. The fact that he was actually able to hit them with raikiri, react to their attacks and cut 8 of their arms with raiden plus all the other speed feats I addressed (specially him dodging kakuzu’s futon) puts Kakashi above Obito in speed.

-Stamina is not a major factor here.
- Mokuton gets dodged, destroyed with raikiri or warped away with kamui.

I still don’t see a valid counter to Kakashi’s n°2 tactic. He sends a clone to the other dimension without obito knowing it. He can make more than 20 clones afterall, Obito won’t know there’s one missing. The rest of the fight is easy since Obito would spam intangibility like he always does and BAM from the other dimension.

Real Akatsuki Leader >>> Copy Clown :bdpf:

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Fixed:
The man who killed rin > The man who cries like a baby about it.

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:bdpf: u mad obito?

NSUNSR · Aug 20, 2015

LMAO What are you doing Selan? Reported.

Selan · Aug 20, 2015

What's the matter?!

NSUNSR · Aug 20, 2015

You don't just make posts like that in other people's debate.
It is up to debaters to defend their characters.

Selan · Aug 20, 2015

I didn't know that, otherwise I wouldn't have. Anyway, at least, I think I've brought some good points for the debaters.

Jugram Haschwalth · Aug 20, 2015

Selan said:
I didn't know that, otherwise I wouldn't have. Anyway, at least, I think I've brought some good points for the debaters.

Delete your post or the mods will.

Selan · Aug 20, 2015

Deleted.

EZQ · Aug 22, 2015

Come oon NSUNSR i want to post another joke against Obito lol. Hurry

NSUNSR · Aug 22, 2015

Expect my final post in 12 to 16 hours.

NSUNSR · Aug 23, 2015

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This is my third and last post, and i'll simply counter ezequielosses arguments.

-Kakashi has already been hurt by chakra rods (by pain and by Obito himself). So he would fight avoiding entering in contact with them since he knows they’re dangerous. Kakashi is an expert dealing with opponents with weapons. Hence Hidan and Zabuza are experts CQC users with weapons, and Kakashi stalemated both with barely a kunai.

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Obito’s feats with chakra rods are not enough to say he can give Kakashi trouble, since Kakashi himself has already proved to be very effective in CQC even against enemies with better weapons than Obito’s.

Good argument, but my point is still valid, as Obito's weaponry is better. In a fight where both opponents have comparable battle prowess, the weapon is very important.

-Obito only got Naruto with that Mokuton because he was too close to him and Naruto was there protecting Kakashi worried about him. Not to mention, Naruto was able to move and clash his head against Obito’s while being restrained by it, meaning its strength is not that high.

While Naruto did want to protect Kakashi, you can clearly see him trying to punch Obito, but is stopped by Obito's Mokuton. Consequently, Naruto's goal at that very moment was not to protect Kakashi, but rather attack Obito, and yet Naruto's attack is still stopped.

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-Obito dodging that attack was situational. His fan was plugged between those floating rocks and all he had to do was to pull the rope so he could move out of the way. In this fight he has no floating rocks since he’s no summoning the gedo mazo. His speed alone is not enough to dodge that attack being as every other time he faced KM Naruto’s same chakra arm attack he used kamui instead of dodging. The second scan you posted is about him going intangible, nothing related to his foot speed.

Even if the first dodge was situational, Obito clearly dodges Naruto's chakra arm in the second scan. Want a better view? Here you go --> (

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-Obito covering a large distance is not impressive since we don’t have a parameter to know how much time it took him to perform that move. By that logic, it’s a very impressive feat for Kakashi too since he already reached that position from far away (since he was no where to be seen before)

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I am leaving this argument, since it is impossible to judge, how much time has passed, although, since it is a fight, and only one panel, it should be only a few seconds.

- What proof is that of Obito keeping up with Minato’s speed? They were both running against eachother. If I start running against a car and the car is coming against me at full speed, and someone takes a photo of the moment we clash, does that photo show that I’m as fast as the car? Hell no. Also, Minato was not going at full speed there, his plan was to teleport just when Obito was about to grab him, so he needed to make Obito think he could grab him so he deactivated his intangibility. Null argument.

I knew you would say this, and you surely caught the bait. Look at the bottom right panel --> (

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"It comes down to speed. Whoever strikes first will win."

Even Minato states, that the clash would come down to whom strikes faster, and striking speed is the most important in Cqc. Both of them are also clearly portrayed, to move with the same foot speed, against each other too. --> (

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-Here are more of Kakashi’s speed feats to stop this subject:

*Kakashi dodged a point blank attack with a very huge AoE of surprise while being mid air. Getting out of that AoE so fast indicates high sunshin speed and reaction speed.

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*Kakashi intercepted ration gian and was no where near to be seen before

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Agreed with these feats. They are impressive, but nothing Obito can't top.

*Kakashi intercepted Sasuke’s chidori and he was no where near when sasuke made it.

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*Kakashi outspeeded Sasuke on their little CQC encounter.

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Irrelevant feats, since Sasuke was exhausted after his fight with Danzo. Base Naruto was also able to intercept Sasuke's attack, and save Sakura. --> (

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) I guess that base Naruto is as fast as Kakashi. What a boss. :bdpf:

Kakashi doesn’t need a lot of stamina to end this fight. Plus, he’s no baby when it comes to chakra. On the war arc he used
5 Kamui ; 8 raikiris, 2 bunshin and 2 doton wall before getting chakra refill from the kiuuby.

Still nowhere, as near as chakra Obito has.

And why do you keep showing scans of Zetsu’s mokuton? Obito can’t make those spikes, simple. Without those spikes Obito’s only option is restraining Mokuton which can be countered by slicing it with raikiri.

and Obito’s dangerous Mokuton can’t be made without zetsu.

-Obito doesn’t have a piercing mokuton jutsu, period. He needed Zetsu to perform it because as it seems, it’s a lot stronger than any other mokuton Obito has showed to do just by himself. And again, not even with that level of mokuton Obito is getting Kakashi or his lightining clone as he was able to react against v2 jins.

You continue to state, that Obito can't use piercing Mokuton, yet you bring no new evidence. If you think, that i will repeat myself to counter your hollow arguments, then you're surely mistaken. If you want to prove your point, you can click the spoiler,to see my arguments, and counter them properly:

In no way am i overrating Obito's mokuton abilities. He has the chakra to contol 6 bijuus at the same time, and use Kamui multiple times with 0 exhaustion. He was able to contol the Juubi with his Mokuton (though with Madaras help too) --> (

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) and could channel his chakra into the Juubi to make it shoot hundreds of huge wooden spikes. --> (

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Kakashi can counter this making more than one clone : Kage bunshin no jutsu Kakashi’s version.
There are at least 20 clones there. Obito won’t tell the difference if one of the clones is missing.

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So Kakashi makes 20 clones and makes the mud wall, then warps one of them (his kamui is faster than anything Obito can do as I already proved) and then fight normally. The remaining clones would be defeated easely obviously but Kakahi has already a clone on the other dimension, that only needs one strike to end this. Obito’s sensing won’t help against so many clones.

Kakashi's clones can only be used to fool one, and ar not appropriate for combat. --> (

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) If you want to make Kakashi warp one of them, then that would be a complete waste of chakra. You're underrating the capabilities of sensing targets, which can allow a sensor to count hundreds to thousands of people. 20 clones are nothing. People like Minato and Tobirama were able to sense and count 20 enemies in a second. --> (

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) -(

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) Obito will notice if a clone suddenly disappears.

Another thing Kakashi can do and you haven’t countered is to make all the procedure under earth. Sharingan can’t see under earth (as I showed in Kakashi vs Itachi pt 2) so If kakashi makes the clone and warps it under the floor Obito is still screwed.
The bold is countered by the fact that Kakashi first makes the clones and after that he make the wall.

There is no space underground for Kakashi to make a clone, and teleport it underground. Also Sharingan can easily see chakra underground. --> (

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Tactic n°2 is still valid for Kakashi.

Does that mean that tactic n°1 is out of option? :bdpf:

And no way he’s countering Kakashi’s long ranged attacks with elemental attacks. Lightining hound is not straight, look here Kishimoto drawed the path the wolf followed and it seems the wolf can move freely, not on a same direction, so if Obito counters it with fire Kakashi makes the wolf dodge it around.

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Fireball jutsu might be dodged, but wide attacks, like Katon Bakufu Ranbu incenerate the dog. --> (

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What’s the difference if its from close? Kakashi can cut it with raikiri if its close too.
It’s a restraining mokuton, Kakasshi can destroy it as soon as it starts moving towards him or just jump back (thing that Naruto didn’t do because he was distracted and protecting kakashi).

I have already showed, that Naruto wasn't distracted at that time, so Kakashi isn't reacting to the Mokuton.

Also, what stops Kakashi from warping the mokuton away with kamui?
In the case Obito is using it to restrain Kakashi from a really short distance Kakashi can do this

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He warps the mokuton away with kamui. He did it to susano arrows with no problem.

This will work on the restraining Mokuton, but it doesn't matter if Kakashi teleports away, Mokuton that has already pierced him. Kamui will not only drain some chakra from Kakashi, but will also leave him vulnerable, to Obito's kamui.

-Kakashi was fighting even more opponents than Naruto. Naruto was fighting 2 v1 jins while Kakashi was fighting 4 v2 jins. And even without sharingan and rinnegan, these v2 jins had a major advantage that was the v2 cloak. V2 cloak gives an amazing power up to the jin, just watch Naruto vs Oro and see how much Naruto’s power grew. You saying Naruto was having a harder time doesn’t take merit of what Kakashi did.
Kakashi still landed rasengan on them, it didn’t pierce because they have high durability, but the speed to hit them was still there.

@bold: You mean Raikiri right? Kakashi was able to hit a jin once, and miss it once. His feats are inconsistent.

-Chakra arms are really fast. And Kakashi still managed to slice 8 of them and avoid getting hurt.

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Kurama is far superior to other jins, and Orochimaru had to outrun the arm, Kakashi only needed to evade them.

Bold: Kishimoto only drew one scan of him fighting one jin. After that we clearly see Kakashi and Gai both were facing 6 of them.

After that, the rest of the fight was out paneled. :|

I didn’t give him any feat

You know you're guilty.

Kakashi kept up with 4 jins until naruto came out of the bijuu’s stomach. Even before that we’ve already seen he was able to fight them and land raikiri on them . The fact that raikiri didn’t hurt them has nothing to do with kakashi’s speed which was high enough to slice chakra arms without being hurt, dodge and cover from their strikes and land raikiri on them

Kakashi never kept up with 4 jins, and he got outclassed by a single jin. He got a single hit, but he missed his second attack. --> (

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-The bold made me cry:
1- Kakahsi’s lighting clone is a lot stronger than normal clones. Kakashi states that it took him half of his chakra reserves. So don’t compare it to kage bunshin. This clone was very fast and was able to perfor high level jutsu as I already stated.
2- You said it yourself, Naruto was caught out of guard . Plus Naruto didn’t have a jutsu to overpower it like Kakashi’s clone would have rasengan.

Kakashi's clone is fast, but not faster than Kakashi himself, who isn't capable of reacting to Mokuton.

God, Itachi reacted to it because Kakashi popped right in front of him. Here, Kakashi would do the opposite. He’d send his clone up first to distract Obito and then he can pop up anywhere he wants far from Obito so he wouldn’t notice. Exactly like this:
Itachi bussy with the clone and Kakashi pops out BEFORE the clone foes poof (making Obito realize it is a clone). Just switch Obito with Itachi on this panel:

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See? Kakashi uses the clone as a distraction and can come of the ground whenever he wants and wherever he wants. In this case, Kakashi would send the clone to Obito, and he would pop up from another location to perform a back stab.
(Arguing this subject is a little silly, since once Kakashi makes the clone underground he warps it to the other dimension to follow tactic n°2 which is an easy win, I see no reason for him to send the clone up to distract Obito, but nvm, this works too)

Fodder clones won't distract Obito even for a second, so they are useless. This strategy might have worked on Itachi, who was busy handing Kakashi, but someone as versatile as Obito can keep Kakashi at bay by shooting chakra rods, warping Fuma Shurikens, and even by using Mokuton. Kakashi has zero knowede, on Obito's Mokuton no Sashiki no Jutsu, so even if Kakashi dodges it, Obito can make it expand and pierce Kakashi. --> (

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) Mokuton Sashiki no jutsu is also a great method of dealing with bunshins from a far. "Fodder" bunshins get immediately pierced, and lightng clones, get hit when the jutsu expands.

I haven't quoted some parts of ezequielosses post, since they are things that have been stated twice.

Fixed:
The man who killed rin > The man who cries like a baby about it.

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:bdpf: u mad obito?

Lml You can't compare trash like Kakashi, to someone on Obito's level.

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He even state it in front of his students.

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Too bad Kakashi just got stomped.

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End of my final post

EZQ · Aug 23, 2015

the most important part is the war of jokes.

I won't be countering until in two days so i hope there's no problem. I have chemo tomorrow

EZQ · Aug 24, 2015

NSUNSR said:
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This is my third and last post, and i'll simply counter ezequielosses arguments.

Final post people. I did it today because I’m gonna be a little weakened tomorrow.

Good argument, but my point is still valid, as Obito's weaponry is better. In a fight where both opponents have comparable battle prowess, the weapon is very important.

Didn’t say it wasn’t important. But Kakashi has showed to be really proficient fighting good weapons with just a kunai. With his feats we can say he wouldn’t be affected by Obito’s chakra rods since:
-He has knowledge on how dangerous chakra rods are and how they work
-He has enough speed feats and reaction speed feats to say he can fight against them
-His kunai is OP lmao, it matched Zabuza’s sword and Hidan’s scythe

While Naruto did want to protect Kakashi, you can clearly see him trying to punch Obito, but is stopped by Obito's Mokuton. Consequently, Naruto's goal at that very moment was not to protect Kakashi, but rather attack Obito, and yet Naruto's attack is still stopped.

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Naruto made a linear attack against an opponent he already knew he couldn’t touch to protect his sensei. Obito’s mokuton was going straight to Naruto’s punch, which is a good feat of how fast it comes out of his body, but not a good speed feat of its travelling speed itself, since Naruto was the one that made a linear attack straight to it.
This is countered by raikiri.

Even if the first dodge was situational, Obito clearly dodges Naruto's chakra arm in the second scan. Want a better view? Here you go --> (
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Dude, you sure you posted the right scan?
You’ve only showed one scan of Obito dodging KCM Naruto’s arm and it was when his fan got plugged between 2 rocks. Every other damn time, he needed kamui phasing to avoid getting hit. He never dodged KCM Naruto’s chakra arm with foot speed. He only dodged it with his kamui intangibility and with his situational fan plugged between the floating rocks.
This is an unvalid feat of Obito’s speed.

I am leaving this argument, since it is impossible to judge, how much time has passed, although, since it is a fight, and only one panel, it should be only a few seconds.

Yes but then Kakashi replicated that same feat or even better.

I knew you would say this, and you surely caught the bait. Look at the bottom right panel --> (
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"It comes down to speed. Whoever strikes first will win."

Even Minato states, that the clash would come down to whom strikes faster, and striking speed is the most important in Cqc. Both of them are also clearly portrayed, to move with the same foot speed, against each other too. --> (
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:l Okay..
So, minato says its down to speed because the one that strikes first is the winner.
-Minato said this because Obito only needed to touch him to warp him away.
-Minato was not going at full speed since he needed Obito to think that he was able to warp him so he’d materialize and then get him with rasengan.
-Again, if I run against a car and somebody takes a picture of it, does it show I’m as fast as the car?
Minato wasn’t even going at full speed, Obito’s warping speed with kamui was what was a threat to Minato, not his foot speed.

Agreed with these feats. They are impressive, but nothing Obito can't top.

Based on what? There’s nothing that suggest Obito can replicate these feats without Kamui. He doesn’t speed feats to put him on Kakashi’s category since:
-He never dodged KCM Naruto’s attacks with his speed
-Minato wasn’t going at full speed on their encounter nor did Obito pressure him with his foot speed, it was his warping speed since Obito only needed to touch him and bye minato.
-Every damn time he faced a fast attack he used intangibility even if it meant getting his ass kicked by Kakashi on the other dimension.
If his speed was enough to dodge chakra arms he would have done it, but here we fing him using intangibility even when he already knew Kakashi was gonna pound him from the other dimension. So his speed feats are… none
(Also a good feat for Kakashi’s strength department. He made Obito cough blood with just one punch)

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Irrelevant feats, since Sasuke was exhausted after his fight with Danzo. Base Naruto was also able to intercept Sasuke's attack, and save Sakura. --> (
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) I guess that base Naruto is as fast as Kakashi. What a boss. :bdpf:

-Sasuke was healed after his fight with danzo. He took a bite of karin’s arm and gained some chakra back.
-Nothing related to his speed on making a chidori. Sakura was less than 1 mt away from him. It wouldn’t have made a lot of difference if Sasuke wasn’t exhausted.
-This only tells us Base naruto is really fast. It doesn’t mean he is as fast as Kakashi. That they both manage to make the same thing doesn’t mean they’re equals on this department. That’s like saying, Madara kills ten ten, and kakashi can kill her too, meaning kakashi is a strong as madara? Hell no.
Naruto replicated one of Kakashi’s speed feats, it doesn’t mean he can replicate his best speed feat (without the kiuuby ofc).

Still nowhere, as near as chakra Obito has.

Irrelevant. It won’t be a dragged out battle.

You continue to state, that Obito can't use piercing Mokuton, yet you bring no new evidence. If you think, that i will repeat myself to counter your hollow arguments, then you're surely mistaken. If you want to prove your point, you can click the spoiler,to see my arguments, and counter them properly:

In no way am i overrating Obito's mokuton abilities. He has the chakra to contol 6 bijuus at the same time, and use Kamui multiple times with 0 exhaustion. He was able to contol the Juubi with his Mokuton (though with Madaras help too) --> (
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) and could channel his chakra into the Juubi to make it shoot hundreds of huge wooden spikes. --> (
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What is this?
You are the one that says Obito can use piercing Mokuton and brings no evidence.
- The only mokuton Obito has shown to use without Zetsu is the one used against Naruto.
- Piercing mokuton is clearly zetsu’s abilitie. I already posted a scan. Obito can’t perform that level of mokuton without zetsu.
- You give useless evidence like “he controlled the 6 bijuu” or “he can use kamui multiple times”… how is that even related to his abilitie with mokuton? It says a lot of his chakra control, but his mokuton abilities are nothing related to that, at all.
If he could make high level mokuton like that all by himself then believe me, he would have used it.

Kakashi's clones can only be used to fool one, and ar not appropriate for combat. --> (
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) If you want to make Kakashi warp one of them, then that would be a complete waste of chakra. You're underrating the capabilities of sensing targets, which can allow a sensor to count hundreds to thousands of people. 20 clones are nothing. People like Minato and Tobirama were able to sense and count 20 enemies in a second. --> (
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) Obito will notice if a clone suddenly disappears.

-I already know they’re not appropriate for combat. Kakashi only needs them to distract Obito and send just one of them to the kamui dimension.
-You are comparing Obito’s sensing abilities with Tobirama’s and Minato’s? Lmao. First of all, Obito needs to use hiding like a mole to be able to sense, and he doesn’t sense the chakra, he senses the magnetism, so you would be implying Obito would be even able to tell the difference in the magnetism created by 21 clones and 20 clones, which is fallacious.
-Obito is not a sensor type, so he can’t sense as Minato and Tobirama do. If he uses hiding like a mole to sense then he’d be sensing the magnetism over his head, and he wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between so many clones if just one of them is missing
-You’re implying that Obito would actually be able to go underground and sense what’s happening about him before Kakashi can send a clone to the other dimension? You’re forgetting Kakashi’s speed with kamui boy.

There is no space underground for Kakashi to make a clone, and teleport it underground. Also Sharingan can easily see chakra underground. --> (
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Is this a joke? What do you mean there’s no space undergroung for kakashi to make a clone and teleport it? Lmao. Kakashi has already showed to be able to make clones while being underground, after that, the only thing he needs to do is to warp it away with kamui.
Sharingan can see barely underground, but it can’t see trough layers and layers of ground. Hence why Itachi couldn’t see it.

Does that mean that tactic n°1 is out of option? :bdpf:

-Tactic n1: Kakashi is superior on base skills and Obito can’t take him out with his mokuton feats even if we give him the piercing one. Kakashi outspeeds him and ends him with Chidori to the chest.
-Tactic n2: Kakashi makes 20 clones and sends one to another dimension. It doesn’t matter if the rest of the clones are fodder, they’re there just to distract Obito. He makes a mud wall to block Obito’s vision and then its done. Obito can’t sense if one of the clones are missing with hiding like a mole since it works with the magnetism over one’s head, and he’s not a sensor type either.
Even Tobirama, a sensor type, when was about to die, he said “they’re around 20”. So he wasn’t sure if they were 20 or not, and Obito’s sensing is a lot worse than tobirama’s, so hell no, he’s not telling the difference.
If Kakashi performs this while under the ground its the same. He makes a clone and sends it away while being underground. Obito’s sharingan won’t see trough so many layers of ground. Proof: Itachi’s eyes couldn’t see it.
Once Kakashi has a clone on the other dimension Obito is screwed. If he doesn’t know this, then he’d just phase trough any attack Kakashi makes and bam, death for Obito.
Kakashi wins both.

Fireball jutsu might be dodged, but wide attacks, like Katon Bakufu Ranbu incenerate the dog. --> (
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True.

I have already showed, that Naruto wasn't distracted at that time, so Kakashi isn't reacting to the Mokuton.

This mokuton gets chopped with raikiri or warped away with Kamui.
Not that Kakashi would go to a straight and linear attack against Obito like Naruto did anyways..

This will work on the restraining Mokuton, but it doesn't matter if Kakashi teleports away, Mokuton that has already pierced him. Kamui will not only drain some chakra from Kakashi, but will also leave him vulnerable, to Obito's kamui.

Obito doesn’t have piercing Mokuton, and even if he had, Kakashi can teleport it away before it hits him.
How’s kakashi vulnerable to Obito’s kamui? If Obito sends Kakashi away with kamui, then kakashi leaves a clone in the dimension and comes back by himself as he has already shown to do.

@bold: You mean Raikiri right? Kakashi was able to hit a jin once, and miss it once. His feats are inconsistent.

Yes I meant raikiri.
You don’t get it do you? Kakashi was able to hit the jin with raikiri, and only got counterted because the jins could tank it easely.

Kurama is far superior to other jins, and Orochimaru had to outrun the arm, Kakashi only needed to evade them.

You say Kurama was far superior to the toher jins but still:
-The other jins were giving trouble to KM Naruto on v1, while Kakashi faced them on v2.
-Orochimaru was keeping up just with one of them, Kakashi with 8.

After that, the rest of the fight was out paneled. :|

And the only thing I said is that Kakashi survived it. Against 4 v2 jins, by himself…

You know you're guilty.

For preaching with the truth?

Kakashi never kept up with 4 jins, and he got outclassed by a single jin. He got a single hit, but he missed his second attack. --> (
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Kakashi survived against four of them with no injuries, meaning he kept up. And he didn’t get outclassed, the jin dodged his raikiri and countered but Kakashi reacted perfectly as well.

Kakashi's clone is fast, but not faster than Kakashi himself, who isn't capable of reacting to Mokuton.

Chakra arms, Susano arros, v2 jins attacks… all of them faster than Mokuton, and you say Kakashi can’t react? Smh.

Fodder clones won't distract Obito even for a second, so they are useless. This strategy might have worked on Itachi, who was busy handing Kakashi, but someone as versatile as Obito can keep Kakashi at bay by shooting chakra rods, warping Fuma Shurikens, and even by using Mokuton. Kakashi has zero knowede, on Obito's Mokuton no Sashiki no Jutsu, so even if Kakashi dodges it, Obito can make it expand and pierce Kakashi. --> (
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) Mokuton Sashiki no jutsu is also a great method of dealing with bunshins from a far. "Fodder" bunshins get immediately pierced, and lightng clones, get hit when the jutsu expands.

Let’s leave this strategy to the judges. Work with mi 2nd post.
I already stated then only thing Kakashi would be making the clone would be for warping it away. He wouldn’t make it face Obito, so its not this important.
And if Obito kills all the bunshins it doesn’t matter, they did their job, that it was to distract Obito even for one second. I keep telling myself you are underestimating Kakashi’s speed with kamui.

I haven't quoted some parts of ezequielosses post, since they are things that have been stated twice.

Lml You can't compare trash like Kakashi, to someone on Obito's level.

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He even state it in front of his students.

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Too bad Kakashi just got stomped.

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Sorry i don’t have the energy fot the jokes war so you won.

NSUNSR · Aug 24, 2015

I was joking, when I said that Naruto is as fast as Kakashi.
We need two more judges. Does anyone want to help?

EZQ · Aug 24, 2015

I asked beans2 but i doubt he can do it. If he can then if you agree we should let him judge.

Of the 3 judges TRE MERCER is the only one available

EZQ · Aug 26, 2015

Don't die little thread. We all wanna see you judged

EZQ · Aug 26, 2015

zexion will be the replacement for TAC

TRE MERCER · Aug 27, 2015

NSUNSR

PROS- In your opener i like how you stated ways Kakashi would fight Obito and countered them right away instead of posting a bias opener with scenario's that fit perfectly for Obito.

I like how you proved that Obito can keep up with Kakashi in cqc you did well on proving that point.

You also Made good use of Obito's abilities and how they would work against Kakashi Raition techs.

You also countered the Doton wall plus clone argument very well as how Obito would slip through the wall once Kakashi makes it since there wouldn't be any clones in the Kamui dimension.

CONS- You kept claiming Obito can use Chakra rods when in-fact he can't because that was a pipe he stabbed Konan with not a chakra rod.

You also kept saying Obito can use Spiked Mokuton without Zetsu but you never went into detail on that at all.(With the exception of Juubi which we can't accurately say it did or didn't help Obito preform this feat)

Ezequielosses

PROS- You came up with many strategies for Kakashi to utilize while fighting against Obito and approached each of them in decent ways.

You completely debunked Obito speed against Minato argument.

You explained went into a good explanation on why/how Kakashi won't be running out of stamina/chakra here.

You explained in great Detail how Obito won't be able to stop Kamui snipe on a smaller target seeing as he couldn't even tell what happened to Naruto's Rasengan/Clone.

You called him out on his Spiky Mokuton without Zetsu claims and he still didn't back what he said up either.

CONS- You claimed that Kakashi raition clones are faster than the average clones and didn't show any proof of this.

Using Kakashi getting one over on a beaten chakra drained Sasuke didn't help your claim at all.

/SPOILER]

Winner

Ezequielosses wins imo. NUNS argument relied heavily on chakra rods and spiked Mokuton feats. I did my research and found out that it wasn't even a rod he put through Konans back. He never used spiked mokuton feats without the aid of something or someone else. NUNS overall had better arguments and used strategies well.

EZQ · Aug 27, 2015

:bfps:

ezequielosses (MS Kakashi) vs NSUNSR (MS Obito)

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