Yeah because obito was clearly using Kamui in his battle with Kakashi... Oh wait. Also Obito clearly didn't state he wanted kakashi to destory the seal on his heart.... Oh wait.
Also itachi does defeat kisame more than not, But kisame has his chances to kill itachi.
Anyway, B did not het "punked", In the end he Forced Itachi to retreat to one of Nagato's summon once he pulled out his Sword style.
Second, Kisame did not get "punked" by bee, At least not in his Bee in his Base form (same form he fought itachi in). Kisame held his ground perfectly fine. He only started taking hits when bee started using his Bijuu cloak (a form which he didn't use against itachi)
Yeah, makes sense that he fails to land a hit, then pressures Itachi to retreat. Even though Itachi wanted to get KA going.
Sasuke has proven that Bijuu cloak was worse for CQC than his base form because of the linear attacks. And Kisame and B never had CQC battle. B never used his seven sword style nor did he manage to use Raiton Kenjutsu which is why he never landed a hit. Not because of Kisames skills to dodge an attack. If that Samehada couldn't absorb chakra, Kisame would have died there.
I don't care if it's been debunked by fans.
In the cannon, An eye that can see chakra, Failed to do so when vision is blocked by Smoke/Dust.
Yeah because obito was clearly using Kamui in his battle with Kakashi... Oh wait. Also Obito clearly didn't state he wanted kakashi to destory the seal on his heart.... Oh wait.
Also itachi does defeat kisame more than not, But kisame has his chances to kill itachi.
I'm not sure you know was "getting punked" Means.
Anyway, B did not het "punked", In the end he Forced Itachi to retreat to one of Nagato's summon once he pulled out his Sword style.
Second, Kisame did not get "punked" by bee, At least not in his Bee in his Base form (same form he fought itachi in). Kisame held his ground perfectly fine. He only started taking hits when bee started using his Bijuu cloak (a form which he didn't use against itachi)
I don't care if it's been debunked by fans.
In the cannon, An eye that can see chakra, Failed to do so when vision is blocked by Smoke/Dust.
As i relpied to the other person
"Yeah because obito was clearly using Kamui in his battle with Kakashi... Oh wait. Also Obito clearly didn't state he wanted kakashi to destory the seal on his heart.... Oh wait."
Thats simply you assuming Naruto went all out. He was talking to itachi, Didn't use chakra arms (which in cannon cannot be predicted by sharingan Pre-cog), Didn't use clones, Nor the speed he used to Dodge A/Blitz kisame. While he was also fighting less chakra than his normal self due to having multiple clones heading to the battle field.
Sasuke pretty much did the same thing Itachi did, Block the first volley of hits. only difference is that Itachi is both faster and better than 3T sasuke at CQC thus had the ability to disengage from the fight.
Simply because he blocked the first view initial hits doesn't mean he wasn't pressured into backing off.
Sasuke has proven that Bijuu cloak was worse for CQC than his base form because of the linear attacks.
There is a huge difference between someone dodging an attack and someone moving so fast the other cannot react.
A easily could have seen him move but once at full speed their isn't much he can do about it, he is at the mercy of his own momentum. That is why chidori requires sharingan. Look at A vs Sasuke, Do you think A couldn't react to Sasuke when Sasuke was using chidori? Of course A could see him dodge his elbow strike, but not much he could about, as oppose to Sasuke who could predict the movement, thus could dodge elbow bolt.
The Ay vs MS Sasuke was a different scenario entirely, obviously he did react, but against Naruto Ay said he was coming at him with his Max speed. And Naruto moved faster to get out of the way.
Also Ay didn't react because the exclamation mark was absent.
And did Naruto have the capacity to escape either of them? No. Did Itachi try to hurt Naruto like, say, he tried to hurt Orochimaru? No, he was only stalling him and spiritually breaking him down by showing him things he loves/talking to him in Genjutsu. He was not actually trying to inflict damage like he did against Orochimaru. Not to mention, Itachi can do what Sasuke did to Danzo. Change a single factor in the fight and keep everything else consistent with real life. The clones thus will not know they are under Genjutsu in the first place. And you act like Itachi will watch Naruto break out his clones from Genjutsu smh. The second Naruto's clones are placed into Genjutsu, Itachi either one shots them with Yasaka Magatama or uses his Susano's sword to blitz them all. Stop treating Itachi like he's a low-intellect Mongolian comparable to the likes of Naruto.
Again referencing the past is irrelevant because it was the past Itachi didn't put KCM Naruto under genjutsu once, & if he's a PJ then Genjutsu becomes Obsolete entirely.
Ok fair enough. But KCM Naruto barely has any feat wars since it was BM Naruto 99% of the time. Guess KCSM is out the window and thus Naruto loses with less difficulty then I imagined. Although the context in which OP stipulated, he wanted everything to be the same it was at the Nagato vs Bee/Itachi/Naruto occasion. Except it'd be Naruto vs Itachi instead of Nagato.
Nope doesn't say it's the Same Naruto or the Same Itachi. But if it was then Itachi gets One shot by Koto like in canon :lol
Kisame was not looking, but I agree he could blitz. Doesn't change the fact that Itachi not only has better reaction speed (reacted to Kirin) but he also has his Mangekyo Sharingan which gives him pre-cognition. And based on the fight they were being portrayed as equals CQC wise, so I don't really see Itachi being affected much by Naruto's speed, especially if you consider his ability to use a Susano variant far before Naruto reaches his location, and smash him with it. But lol at Ay not reacting to Naruto. That literally has to be the biggest twisting of a manga scan I have seen to date barring KH's arguments. Naruto was reflexive enough to react to Ay's v2. Anyways, this scan proves that Naruto would've been hit by Amaterasu had it been aimed at him [
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]. He clearly hadn't even seen the flames moving, he started jumping away after that because he knew he couldn't dodge it, so he probably went to hide (Ay could dodge it with superior reactions). When the Amaterasu did not hit Naruto he was surprised because he knew its speed would be too great for him to dodge, but it was his lucky day because it wasn't aimed at him. Same thing happens here, Naruto dosn't dodge it. Having a SM clone won't help, he obviously knew it was going to happen long before based on his remarks. Lol at smoke bombs though. Didn't do it last time so he won't do it this time.
Edo Itachi =/ Alive Itachi even then
It's very possible Itachi activated
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& How is what I said wrong about Ay? There were exclamation marks showing a reaction when Naruto shunshined out of the way. He probably didn't notice until Naruto spoke. Also fail how is Naruto not evading Amaterasu when Ay himself outsped it? & smoke bombs aren't out of character I believe you just don't want to address them.
Uh what? It's not infinite chakra, it's infinitely regenerative. You can only use as much chakra as you would while alive in one go. But otherwise your chakra regenerates far faster then you lose chakra. Susano does not even take that much chakra, so the regeneration will obviously trump the exertion of chakra dramatically. It's not like it regens only when he's not using Susano smh. And Naruto knowing its best to fight from a distance won't change the fact that ITACHI's Totsuka can extend like Orochimaru's Kusanagi can. It has no physical form, so it extends as much as the user wants it to (in addition to it being Kusanagi's variant).
Fixed & yes I was wrong about that. I still don't see Totsuka blade touching KCM Naruto though. It's reach extending proves nothing as Naruto's reactions are much greater than Orochimaru's & Nagato's.
Which will lead to them being hit by Amaterasu as they cannot evade it in mid-air (or on the ground). Also, by summoning the Toads Naruto has effectively granted Itachi control of 3 Bijuu sized summons (Sharingan controls them). Thanks.
What a joke Amaterasu isn't going to consume Gamakichi & Naruto instantly. :lol I only stated Gamakichi not 3 boss size summons which you just Said Itachi will Kill anyways with amaterasu so no help for him :lol
Uh what? Only because Base Naruto is slower then KCM Naruto he is also somehow more prone to being hit by Genjutsu? Makes sense lmao.
No shit? Naruto had no idea his crows could do that in the first place. Since KCM Naruto has intel from those two + Is much stronger, faster & experienced with negative emotion sensing & Kyuubi chakra too boot, how is he getting trapped in Genjutsu? Already addressed if he's a PJ genjutsu is a Nonfactor.
They've distracted DSM Kabuto enough for Itachi to land a hit on him and it distracted EMS Sasuke and Hebi Sasuke. Obviously low tier or high tier is irrelevant as they will follow you, they will flock you, and the Sharingan eye will look at you. And stop using Ay as an example. Madara was not even trying to stomp them, he was entertaining them. Itachi, on the other hand, puts everyone he fights into Genjutsu the second they look at him. Deidara from second one, Orochimaru from second one, Sasuke from second one, Killer Bee from second one. Here's 4 people who are far more intelligent then Naruto being put into Genjutsu from the very first second of the fight. And do note Naruto's been put into Genjutsu three times, only because he's faster and stronger due to a Kyuubi enhancement does not mean he's any less prone to Genjutsu, as his low-intelligence will surely fail him again.
As stated above genjutsu is a non factor, also you sound very biased towards Naruto right now man.
I''ll agree with you on the Madara example soley due to him being Much stronger with PS.
Just lol at that logic. Naruto could react because of his SM, has nothing to do with movement speed. If you are suggesting this scan portrays them being equal speed then I guess Bee and v2 Ay clashing with Lariats puts them at equal speed, lol. So no, SM Naruto is nowhere close to v1 Ay speed.
Why not? Did Senjutsu not make Sasuke, Naruto faster?
Bijuu chakra make Naruto & Bee faster?
Juubi chakra/Rikudou senjutsu make Obito & Madara faster?
Rikudou chakra make Naruto & Sasuke faster? The list goes on & on. So lol @ Your logic.
Naruto needs to be above Itachi to use FCD. 1. He will never get above Itachi without being put into Genjutsu or getting smashed with Totsuka. 2. v3 Susano tanks FCD like it didn't even happen. Anyways, this fight will be Itachi camping in his v4+Totsuka+Yata. He's not losing this, ever.
I'm using canon feats. If B really overwhelmed Itachi, he would've fallen. Only reason he retreated was to get KA on himself, and really makes zero sense if B didn't land a hit at first, gets overwhelmed by Itachi's Shunshin and suddenly forces retreat.
Itachi was on auto pilot he couldn't have retreated because he wanted to activate Koto. Talk about doesn't make sense. You can't overwhelm someone when you are the one on the defensive? What kind of logic is that?
Cqc he already proved he can match KM Naruto. Chakra hands gets counter by rib-cage Susanoo hands. Rasenshurikens are ignited with Amaterasu before they can even get off. or Simply tanked by v4 Susanooo and Yata mirror combination. Totsuka rips through his defense and genjutsu one shots in summonings anything else?
The Ay vs MS Sasuke was a different scenario entirely, obviously he did react, but against Naruto Ay said he was coming at him with his Max speed. And Naruto moved faster to get out of the way.
Also Ay didn't react because the exclamation mark was absent.
Exactly! Max speed thus he couldn't change his trajectory. Saying he is going max speed doesn't indicate in anyway he couldn't react to Naruto. I'm not saying Naruto didn't move faster, so that is irrelevant. I'm saying that nothing indicates A could not react. It did not show an exclamation part because it skipped the part of Naruto moving out of the way, for Dramatic Effect.
- Amaterasu gets evaded considering Naruto's speed...Especially when Ay did so.
- Genjutsu? No. On his clones? No as well...Genjutsu is completely useless against a Jin and clones.
- Naruto can produce multiple Kage level clones that can distract Itachi...Add that with the fact that he can use FCD while Itachi is distracted.
- Ma and Pa can be summoned and they can prepare their Genjutsu while Itachi is distracted...They can even use Frog Song which can paralyze Itachi leaving him open for attacks.
- Multiple FRS would destroy Susanoo...Meaning Itachi dies shortly.
The Smoke bombs can also play a big factor. The Rinnegan failed to see through Naruto's smoke bombs...I don't believe the Sharingan can see through it because the Rinnegan showed the ability to see through Gai's pressure points like Madara said
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and Kakashi with the Sharingan said he couldn't see the pressure points
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. If The Sharingan had better insight, it should be able to see that leading me to believe it won't see through smoke bombs since the Rinnegan didn't.
With that being possible, Naruto can use smoke bombs to his advantage possibly using chakra arms from underneath Susanoo and can even throw attacks he can't see.
Haizaki;19448183
The Smoke bombs can also play a big factor. The Rinnegan failed to see through Naruto's smoke bombs...I don't believe the Sharingan can see through it because the Rinnegan showed the ability to see through Gai's pressure points like Madara said [url said:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/672/3/[/url] and Kakashi with the Sharingan said he couldn't see the pressure points
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. If The Sharingan had better insight, it should be able to see that leading me to believe it won't see through smoke bombs since the Rinnegan didn't.
With that being possible, Naruto can use smoke bombs to his advantage possibly using chakra arms from underneath Susanoo and can even throw attacks he can't see.
Again referencing the past is irrelevant because it was the past Itachi didn't put KCM Naruto under genjutsu once, & if he's a PJ then Genjutsu becomes Obsolete entirely.
Itachi didn't put KCM Naruto under Genjutsu=he can't? lmfao. And he's not a PJ, because OP stipulated that he isn't since this is KCM Naruto that fought Nagato (based on conditions). Also, his initial reply to my Genjutsu argument makes it clear that he isn't PJ.
Nope doesn't say it's the Same Naruto or the Same Itachi. But if it was then Itachi gets One shot by Koto like in canon :lol
Clearly is based on initial reply. And Naruto doesn't control the KA, so the Genjutsu only tells him to protect Konoha. Doesn't change anything here, nor is it part of the debate since it'd be considered 'prep' like Konan's 10 million paper bombs would be 'prep'.
Edo Itachi =/ Alive Itachi even then
It's very possible Itachi activated
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& How is what I said wrong about Ay? There were exclamation marks showing a reaction when Naruto shunshined out of the way. He probably didn't notice until Naruto spoke. Also fail how is Naruto not evading Amaterasu when Ay himself outsped it? & smoke bombs aren't out of character I believe you just don't want to address them.
Sasuke would have noticed it and wouldn't have been as surprised to see Itachi alive. So exclamation marks=blitz? That's news to me. Ay dodged it because of his reaction speed. Naruto having greater movement speed and lesser reaction speed does not compensate for it. So again, stop denying manga fact, Naruto outright claimed he'd not be capable of dodging it [
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]. Manga>anything you say. Show me Naruto using smoke bombs ever. And if it was IC for him to use it against Ama then he would've when he was in that situation, yet he didn't. So stop mentioning it.
Fixed & yes I was wrong about that. I still don't see Totsuka blade touching KCM Naruto though. It's reach extending proves nothing as Naruto's reactions are much greater than Orochimaru's & Nagato's.
All his clones can't keep dodging it with Shunshin, because if he has 10 clones and 10 clones use shunshin every time he swings his Totsuka then Naruto is going to have chakra problems based on the amount of chakra it takes, and the limited amount of Kyuubi chakra Naruto possesses while not a PJ.
What a joke Amaterasu isn't going to consume Gamakichi & Naruto instantly. :lol I only stated Gamakichi not 3 boss size summons which you just Said Itachi will Kill anyways with amaterasu so no help for him :lol
Ok I misunderstood. Don't see how that changes anything though. Itachi still makes Gamakichi his pet and Naruto won't realise it while Gamakichi swings his sword at Naruto.
No shit? Naruto had no idea his crows could do that in the first place. Since KCM Naruto has intel from those two + Is much stronger, faster & experienced with negative emotion sensing & Kyuubi chakra too boot, how is he getting trapped in Genjutsu? Already addressed if he's a PJ genjutsu is a Nonfactor.
How does that change the fact that the crows will always be flocking the area? Naruto has to look somewhere, and that alone means the crow can get to the location he's looking at and cast the Genjutsu. There's literally no running away from it. He also has to look at Itachi, and given he's been caught 3 times in Genjutsu, and ALL 3 times having had intel on Genjutsu, he's clearly being caught again. Sasuke was caught like 5 times and he's 10 times as intelligent as Naruto and also has a Sharingan. Stop trying to act like the Kyuubi chakra makes him immune to Genjutsu, because all it does is give him a boost to all his physical stats and ninjutsu, like Senjutsu would. It does not make him any less vulnerable to Genjutsu at all.
As stated above genjutsu is a non factor, also you sound very biased towards Naruto right now man.
I''ll agree with you on the Madara example soley due to him being Much stronger with PS.
I don't, I'm just trying to convey that his intelligence is the reason he's either immune or prone to Genjutsu. His power is irrelevant to it.
Why not? Did Senjutsu not make Sasuke, Naruto faster?
Bijuu chakra make Naruto & Bee faster?
Juubi chakra/Rikudou senjutsu make Obito & Madara faster?
Rikudou chakra make Naruto & Sasuke faster? The list goes on & on. So lol @ Your logic.
It does, but as fast as v1 Ay? Not a chance man.
Obviously.
Obviously, they are getting boosted by the most powerful chakra.
By your logic, if I boost Konohamaru with Kyuubi chakra he'll become as fast as v1 Ay. Or if I give part 1 Naruto SM he'll somehow become as fast as v1 Ay merely due to the fact that power-ups increase speed. False analogy, nothing quantifies SM Naruto at anywhere close to v1 Ay. Only because he can react doesn't mean he's as fast. Dodai reacted with his rubber ball, doesn't mean he's going to be moving as fast as v1 Ay anytime soon.
