Clearing up a misconception : Naruto blitzing Kaguya.

[LeSauce]

I really don't think I am.
My argument does not imply they only come when S-T ninjutsu is used, it implies that the marks used are obviously different from those used to illustrate fast movement.
I do not see how Madara switching with his limbo using the same marks affects the argument. I always thought Limbo switching works similar to ameno switching.

It doesn't. You can clearly see Madara speed off using his own speed. That shows that it has been used on high speed movement, as well as the one that comes out with Gai.

 

[shadowcb]

This is to be expected OP. Naruto fanboys are going to deny a position that nerfs Naruto even when valid evidence has been provided.

It's okay though, this is actually good entertainment seeing them getting flustered as fuark and making pathetic arguments as a result.

Pathetic argument. Proving facts is not considered pathetic. Fanboys, don't expect anything less.

I have defeated this thread. There is nothing supporting Sasuke used a S/T on Naruto. There have always been some indication from the manga when Sasuke used his S/T on Naruto. We don't have that here. We didn't see Sasuke do anything immediately prior or after Naruto attacked Kaguya that would support his using his S/T jutsu. We don't see Naruto and Sasuke communicate even thought the previous things he used S/T on Naruto there was communication between them.

2 - Guy used the same SFX when he first used the 8th Gate -

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that Naruto did -

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[KesOnFire]

I have returned! And in conclusion naruto is faster than kaguya.
All info regarding him and kaguya, implies naruto's speed is most likely
stale competition with kaguya's though his reaction gives him the edge!

Behold the #mangaphax!

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All their interaction regarding speed shows Naruto countering Kaguya, and blitzing her.

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All of that while spending massive amounts of chakra(Or some speed as you say)
on clones.

I have returned! And in conclusion naruto is faster than kaguya.

^^stopped reading here
I said Naruto is faster than kayuga....

 

[Ripple Hole]

i said naruto is faster than kayuga....

Now you wanna argue people don't change?!

 

[Alastor]

I have already explained this.

Like I said there is nothing supporting Sasuke used a S/T on Naruto. There have always been some indication from the manga when Sasuke used his S/T on Naruto. We don't have that here. The only thing you have to support your claim is SFX that was used. We didn't see Sasuke do anything immediately prior or after Naruto attacked Kaguya that would support his using his S/T jutsu. When Naruto and the rest of the rookies fought Obito they communicated. For Naruto to communicate telepathically his chakra must be touching that person. His chakra wasn't touching Sasuke.

It's fact Naruto is very fast and have very fast relaxes. It fact the more Naruto uses his speed the better and faster he becomes.

Guy was using his Night Moth -

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- at that time. It's distort space, but it's not a S/T jutsu. He's not traveling through Space and Time.

Guy was uisng Evening elephant here -

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- The manga explained to use his that jutsu works -

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Not really, you haven't.

Just like there is nothing disproving that he did. Saying that there have always been distinction from the manga to when it happens is irrelevant, that like saying that just because there have been distinctions to when Sasuke prepares Enton before then he must not have used it on the Juubi minions here even though he clearly did.

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Similarly, saying that you didn't see Sasuke do anything prior to it is irrelevant because we didn't see Minato do anything prior to teleporting the Juubi's Bijuu bomb or right afterwards. That does not disprove the argument in any way.

Good for him. I don't think I ever said that Naruto wasn't very fast or didn't have good reflexes.

The mere fact that it distorts space means that it can affectively be used as a space-time Ninjutsu, this is fact regardless of what you call it. Also wrong, Guy had gotten close to Madara to use Evening elephant, the movement itself is not evening elephant.

 

[KesOnFire]

Now you wanna argue people don't change?!

Argue?? What are you talking about :| change?? What are you talking about?

 

[Ripple Hole]

Argue?? What are you talking about :|

You said that you said Naruto is faster than Kaguya, as if I can't say the same because I said he wasnt.
I also agreed, Naruto's speed + reaction > Kaguya's > Sasuke's.

 

[KesOnFire]

You said that you said Naruto is faster than Kaguya, as if I can't say the same because I said he wasnt.
I also agreed, Naruto's speed + reaction > Kaguya's > Sasuke's.

Please just don't ever quote me again. Thank you.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Please just don't ever quote me again. Thank you.

Yw .

 

[Nagi]

lol. Interesting thread.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Your excuse for Sasuke's ST blitz attempt failing and Naruto's succeeding is flawed because despite the fact that she changed dimensions at the moment of the attack, she still absolutely totally dodged him by flying upwards. She didn't teleport away. If you argue that the dimensional gravity impeded Sasuke, recall that it should have also impeded Kaguya as well. She was affected by the gravity too remember. Here is a link

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It's quite plain that she dodged Sasuke's attack. She dodged by flying upwards IN THE DESERT DIMENSION NOT THE GRAVITY DIMENSION.

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This is despite the fact that he had the element of surprise as Kaguya was not expecting his attack. He was sadly too slow.

Now in addition to using flimsy sfx to justify your claim, you are now making excuses for Sasuke's failure that don't hold water.

Naruto on the other hand blitzed her in the desert dimension where she had free mobility--enough to dodge Sasuke's earlier attempt. And she was staring at Naruto the whole time! If he used Sasuke's technique, why did it work this time after failing so woefully earlier?

Also in the panel before Naruto's blitz, we see Naruto shifting his feet as if about to attack, why would he do that if Sasuke was going to teleport him?

 

[Megax Rocker7]

People are denying the sfx? Denying mangaphax much?

ot: good eye OP very impressive I can't believe I missed the sfx.

Leave those people who deny the manga.

When the anime comes up they'll realize it.

 

[Alastor]

Your excuse for Sasuke's ST blitz attempt failing and Naruto's succeeding is flawed because despite the fact that she changed dimensions at the moment of the attack, she still absolutely totally dodged him by flying upwards. She didn't teleport away. If you argue that the dimensional gravity impeded Sasuke, recall that it should have also impeded Kaguya as well. She was affected by the gravity too remember. Here is a link

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It's quite plain that she dodged Sasuke's attack. She dodged by flying upwards IN THE DESERT DIMENSION NOT THE GRAVITY DIMENSION.

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This is despite the fact that he had the element of surprise as Kaguya was not expecting his attack. He was sadly too slow.

Now in addition to using flimsy sfx to justify your claim, you are now making excuses for Sasuke's failure that don't hold water.

Naruto on the other hand blitzed her in the desert dimension where she had free mobility--enough to dodge Sasuke's earlier attempt. And she was staring at Naruto the whole time! If he used Sasuke's technique, why did it work this time after failing so woefully earlier?

Also in the panel before Naruto's blitz, we see Naruto shifting his feet as if about to attack, why would he do that if Sasuke was going to teleport him?

Where is the flaw you are supposedly debunking ? Sasuke was slowed down due to being hindered by gravity that allowed Kaguya to realize that he was there trying to attack her and thus she could dodge his surprise attack. Gravity affects the speed at which your body could move not your thoughts process so Kaguya being also affected by gravity when Sasuke tried to attack doesn't matter because that would have no influence whatsoever on her reaction time.

Kaguya doesn't need to keep her reflexes as high to dodge Sasuke's attack. She already knew that Sasuke teleported and was about to attack her because it happened in the gravity dimension, she literally saw him doing it, all she had to do was outrun him. In Naruto's case however he wasn't affected by gravity at all which means that Kaguya didn't have any extra time to notice his attack or prepare her escape. So what you are saying doesn't disprove my points.

I'm making excuses ? I'm sorry for stating the truth and arguments a debater in Vs forum would use. You are free to disagree with my claims, but you certainly aren't presenting actual evidence against them to claim that they don't hold water. And no, repeatedly asking the same questions 3 or more times in the same post does not qualify as a legit argument, even less since I already addressed it once and am sure to do so in the next post.

Oh yeah, it's not like that thing at his feet is the guy he is talking about or anything.

 

[Alastor]

lol. Interesting thread.

Thanks

People are denying the sfx? Denying mangaphax much?

ot: good eye OP very impressive I can't believe I missed the sfx.

Leave those people who deny the manga.

When the anime comes up they'll realize it.

Thanks you, and I sure hope that the anime would clarify.
If only it wasn't for all the pointless filler...

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Where is the flaw you are supposedly debunking ? Sasuke was slowed down due to being hindered by gravity that allowed Kaguya to realize that he was there trying to attack her and thus she could dodge his surprise attack. Gravity affects the speed at which your body could move not your thoughts process so Kaguya being also affected by gravity when Sasuke tried to attack doesn't matter because that would have no influence whatsoever on her reaction time.

Kaguya doesn't need to have keep her reflexes as high to dodge Sasuke's attack. She already knew that Sasuke teleported and was about to attack her because it happened in the gravity dimension, she literally saw him doing it, all she had to do was outrun him. In Naruto's case however he wasn't affected by gravity at all which means that Kaguya didn't have any extra time to notice his attack or prepare her escape. So what you are saying doesn't disprove my points.

I'm making excuses ? I'm sorry for stating the truth and arguments a debater in Vs forum would use. You are free to disagree with my claims, but you certainly aren't presenting actual evidence against them to claim that they don't hold water. And no, repeatedly asking the same questions 3 or more times in the same post does not qualify as a legit argument, even less since I already addressed it once and am sure to do so in the next post.

Oh yeah, it's not like that thing at his feat is the guy he is talking about or anything.

So I guess Obito ashes were doing sth worthy of an sfx. Maybe the ashes wanted to blitz kaguya too XD

The fact that Kaguya already realised Sasuke had teleported changes nothing since she physically removed herself from the path of the attack. it went like this

One instant: Sasuke teleports to kill a Kaguya that can't move well due to her own gravity.

Next instant: Kaguya moves to another dimension, removing the gravity impediment, allowing both of their next moves to be executed at normal speed. Kaguya completely and utterly dodged it. Once they were in the desert dimension it was back to normal. It was not Kaguya's ability to think that saved her but her ability to move. I can realise a bomb is about to explode but if im nt fast enough to get away in time I'm screwed.

Teleportation merely moves you in a postion to carry out your attack at close range. If your opponent is fast enough to evade it even at that distance then there is no advantage. This was why Obito and Madara could evade Minato and cut off his arms.

Kaguya was physically capable of completely avoiding Sasuke despite the fact that he was already at point blank range due to his ST tech. Your point about gravity makes no sense as it slowed both of them down;reduced Sasuke's attack speed as well as Kaguya's.

your point that she already knew he was there holds no water as

Obito knew Minato had teleported above him with that Rasengan during their fight. Yet that did not make him physically capable of doing anything. Kaguya on the other hand could dodge because Sasuke ST blitz was slower than her.

It makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because prior to that he was fast enough to evade when Kaguya tried to throw him in another dimension like she did Sasuke. She hailed his speed. Sasuke on the other hand was not able to use his ST tech to evade(she easily threw him in the desert) or attack Kaguya(she easily evaded his chidori)Naruto's physical speed had already accomplished more against Kaguya than Sasuke's ST.He, like Kaguya, could survive Sasuke's ST blitz as well during VOTE2 and he did it despite being distracted by a fire ball

it makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because if Sasuke could touch Kaguya with his ST he'd have done it at least once throughout the duration of the fight. After his attempt failed he started attacking with Susanoo. Was he too stupid to know another blitz would work?

It makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because Sasuke had already gone ahead when he saw Naruto was still talking with Obito. There was no plan between them. Sasuke was not shown at all in connection to the attack and one would think Kishi would mention that considering it was the first debilitating hit on Kaguya.

It makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because that sfx was used with Guy and Madara who weren't teleporting.

Your argument is an argument from silence. No one said Sasuke was not involved so therefore he was. I could justify my claim in the same way. No one said Sasuke was involved therefore he wasn't.

 

[Seventh Sama]

Not really, Sasuke didn't need to focus his rinnegan the previous times he teleported. It seems to me more like he was about to teleport Sakura but noticed the Susanoo in that scan and stopped.

He doesn't need to do that when he teleports himself. Only when teleporting an object or someone else.

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or he needs to communicate with them to let them know he's gonna ameno them.

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unless ofc you have proof sasuke and naruto communicated telepathically. :lol
Also sasuke wouldn't have been able to switch with naruto during the final fight since he could only use ameno three times before needing to recharge.
He used ameno when he tried to attack kaguya in the gravity dimension, second time when he used ameno on naruto (according to you) and a third time to get close to nartuo here.

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He wouldn't be able to use ameno here if he used it on naruto. :lol

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And no the gravity didn't slow him down since kaguya adjusted the gravity for her ash bones can fire properly but even if it did. The heavy gravity would've given him an advantage with him aiming his chidori down faster.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

Naruto could have used the Body Flicker to hit Kaguya, if Sasuke did help then I think Kishi would have implied it.

 

[ComplexCity]

He proved Naruto was teleported by Sasuke. Y'all are sad now.

It's like your responses get dumber and dumber



OT: I enjoy ppl making threads that seem to not understand anything about the manga.

So your theory is that Sasuke teleported Naruto to Kaguya who couldn't react due to low chakra. However this is flawed as:

Sasuke could quite have easily teleportd himself to Kaguya and done the same by that logic and yet he never touched her throughout the fight. Ever. Plus Naruto would have to be in on the plan which he absolutely wasn't.

Kaguya was perfectly capable of creating a world destroying Godoudama few moments after, poking a hole in the low chakra theory.

No need for this thread to hit 10+ pages. This response ends it

 

[Punk Hazard]

It's like your responses get dumber and dumber



OT: I enjoy ppl making threads that seem to not understand anything about the manga.





No need for this thread to hit 10+ pages. This response ends it

That's Bill Gates, coming from you.

 

[Alastor]

So I guess Obito ashes were doing sth worthy of an sfx. Maybe the ashes wanted to blitz kaguya too XD

Because that's exactly what I said, right ?
The fact that Kaguya already realised Sasuke had teleported changes nothing since she physically removed herself from the path of the attack. it went like this

No, it changes everything. Knowing that an attack is coming allows you to effectively defend, sometimes agaisnt people and things much faster than yourself. Street levelers in comics can dodge lasers because they know they are being fired even though their speed in nowhere near the speed of light. Heck, the concept has been around in Naruto for a long time due to Sharingan, do I need to remind you of how effectively Sasuke was fighting against Kn0 who was massively faster than him thanks to the sharingan allowing him to see his attacks ?

One instant: Sasuke teleports to kill a Kaguya that can't move well due to her own gravity.

I like how you just left out the fact that Sasuke couldn't move well either due to that same gravity.

Next instant: Kaguya moves to another dimension, removing the gravity impediment, allowing both of their next moves to be executed at normal speed. Kaguya completely and utterly dodged it. Once they were in the desert dimension it was back to normal. It was not Kaguya's ability to think that saved her but her ability to move. I can realise a bomb is about to explode but if im nt fast enough to get away in time I'm screwed.

You do realize that what I sad is that Kaguya knowing beforehand that she was being attacked gave her enough time to prepare her escape right ? I never said that Kaguya dodged due to her ability to think, quite the opposite, I said that knowing in advance that you are being attacked allows you to make use of your speed to dodge. And your bomb argument is bad because bombs are omni-directional unlike a Chidori blitz. If you know when someone plans to shoot you, even dodging a bullet with normal human speed becomes possible, it is called aim-dodging.


Teleportation merely moves you in a postion to carry out your attack at close range. If your opponent is fast enough to evade it even at that distance then there is no advantage. This was why Obito and Madara could evade Minato and cut off his arms.

The funny thing is that this is what I said a few months ago in one of my threads. Too bad back then no one even wanted to acknowledge the difference between attack and movement speed nor that there is no such a thing as teleportation attack speed.


Kaguya was physically capable of completely avoiding Sasuke despite the fact that he was already at point blank range due to his ST tech. Your point about gravity makes no sense as it slowed both of them down;reduced Sasuke's attack speed as well as Kaguya's.

So, what part of gravity does not decrease reaction time don't you get ?


your point that she already knew he was there holds no water as


Obito knew Minato had teleported above him with that Rasengan during their fight. Yet that did not make him physically capable of doing anything. Kaguya on the other hand could dodge because Sasuke ST blitz was slower than her.

False, Obito had no idea he did that until he got attacked.

It makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because prior to that he was fast enough to evade when Kaguya tried to throw him in another dimension like she did Sasuke. She hailed his speed. Sasuke on the other hand was not able to use his ST tech to evade(she easily threw him in the desert) or attack Kaguya(she easily evaded his chidori)Naruto's physical speed had already accomplished more against Kaguya than Sasuke's ST.He, like Kaguya, could survive Sasuke's ST blitz as well during VOTE2 and he did it despite being distracted by a fire ball

That doesn't make much sense. For one naruto already knew Kaguya was trying to throw him in another dimension because that's what she literally did a few seconds ago to Sasuke. The first time in happened both Naruto and Sasuke got caught before they could do anything. And the next time it happened Naruto couldn't even tell Sasuke was being targeted until she caught him, it was pure dumb luck the Sasuke was chosen and not him Kaguya could have just as easily done it to Naruto back then. Being able to survive Sasuke's speed blitz is irrelevant, he tanked that Chidori not dodged why would you even bring that up.

it makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because if Sasuke could touch Kaguya with his ST he'd have done it at least once throughout the duration of the fight. After his attempt failed he started attacking with Susanoo. Was he too stupid to know another blitz would work?

NO, as he said, he was going to be the distraction so Naruto could pull off an attack that could extract the tailed beasts.


It makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because Sasuke had already gone ahead when he saw Naruto was still talking with Obito. There was no plan between them. Sasuke was not shown at all in connection to the attack and one would think Kishi would mention that considering it was the first debilitating hit on Kaguya.

Not this plan thing again. How many times do I need to explain that is irrelevant ? And Sasuke quite clearly stated that he was going to play the distraction, so some sort of plan must have been underway regardless.

It makes more sense that Naruto blitzed Kaguya on his own because that sfx was used with Guy and Madara who weren't teleporting.

Oh, yeah, Guy who can bend space and a Madara who was switching place with Limbo, very convincing indeed.

Your argument is an argument from silence. No one said Sasuke was not involved so therefore he was. I could justify my claim in the same way. No one said Sasuke was involved therefore he wasn't.

This is quite possibly the least successful attempt at twisting an argument I've seen this entire month. I am actually using on panel showings explaining why Sasuke could have been involved, while you are the one claiming that just because we do not see doing it, we do not see him discussing a plan or being connected to it then he must not have been involved so it's rather funny of you to play the argument from silence card.

He doesn't need to do that when he teleports himself. Only when teleporting an object or someone else.

That's just jumping to conclusions. Doesn't seem like needed to do it when he teleported Madara

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or he needs to communicate with them to let them know he's gonna ameno them.

Also jumping to conclusions. Sasuke has constantly been shown to tell Naruto "now" whenever he wanted him to use the Yin-Yang seal.

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unless ofc you have proof sasuke and naruto communicated telepathically. :lol

Well, you certainly do not have proof they didn't

Also sasuke wouldn't have been able to switch with naruto during the final fight since he could only use ameno three times before needing to recharge.

We also don't know about that, for all we know Sasuke could have used Ameno more times when he was trying to escape Kaguya dimensions or maybe to cool down is only needed after switching places withs something. Both interpretations much just as much sense

And no the gravity didn't slow him down since kaguya adjusted the gravity for her ash bones can fire properly but even if it did. The heavy gravity would've given him an advantage with him aiming his chidori down faster.

The gravity was still affecting them though. And it wouldn't make the chidori faster as he still needed to step forward

Sorry if replying in such a way is inconvenient, it's much easier for me. =D