Clearing up a misconception : Naruto blitzing Kaguya.

[Ripple Hole]

Why do you think Kayuga is faster then Naruto? Can you explain or show any proof that Kayuga is faster?

Naruto couldn't run away from her, though he was actively trying.

 

[Alastor]

So your theory is that Sasuke teleported Naruto to Kaguya who couldn't react due to low chakra. However this is flawed as:

Sasuke could quite have easily teleportd himself to Kaguya and done the same by that logic and yet he never touched her throughout the fight. Ever. Plus Naruto would have to be in on the plan which he absolutely wasn't.

Kaguya was perfectly capable of creating a world destroying Godoudama few moments after, poking a hole in the low chakra theory.

Sasuke not being able to touch Kaguya (he did by the way) is irrelevant to what happened. That's like Saying that Naruto cannot use TBB on people just because he chose to use them on TBB and other large things instead. The plan argument has already been addressed.

Kaguya only created her TSB after absorbing chakra from the Infinite Tsukuyomi, so that's flawed as well.

 

[shadowcb]

Well, that's good... I guess.


I have already addressed most of those points in the previous thread. The reason, I called Minato's a possible mistake is due to the fact that Minato was quite clearly using the hand signs for Shunshin and SFX for Shunshin even though he teleported towards that kunai. So it's possible that Kishimoto simply made a mistake since that was among the most recent uses of the jutsu and S-T teleportation in general. So as I said, either it was a mistake or perhaps Minato used Hiraishin to escape then Shunshin to place the Kuani for some reason.

1) Sasuke needing to communicate his plan is irrelevant to Naruto not needing to. Naruto can and has communicated his though telepathically to people before thanks to chakra linking and as Black Zetsu stated he was linked to Sasuke through the Yin-Yang chakra seals.

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2) That is actually a pretty good point. But Guy is the man capable of bending space in his 8th gate form similar to S-T jutsus so I'm not sure that should be considered a regular body flicker movement.

I'm not sure what your last argument is supposed to show ?

Yes, I know. Its BS that you believe Kishi made a mistake with 4th S/T, but can't believe he might mistake with Naruto's speed.

Like I said there is nothing supporting Sasuke used a S/T on Naruto. They are fighting Kaguya and Sasuke already stated it's very important that they survive and defeat her. Every time we have seen Sasuke use his S/T jutsu on Naruto they communicated and had a plan. We don't see that here. When Naruto and the rest of the rookies fought Obito they communicated. For Naruto to communicate telepathically his chakra must be touching that person. His chakra wasn't touching Sasuke. What's important is they communicated. That didn't communicate here.

I see can't explain Guy's SFX. Madara did talk about Guy distorted space, but he still wasn't using a S/T jutsu and they was later when he was using Night Moth -

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- He wasn't using that jutsu at that time.

 

[KesOnFire]

Naruto couldn't run away from her, though he was actively trying.

Show me scan please

 

[LeSauce]

We do not need to have indicators as that's more for dramatic purpose and we actually the S-T SFX was shown on that Madara panel, check around his head.

You're dismissing the evidence to suit your argument.

What the marks were used for doesn't really matter because they were used at moments where there was no S/T involved, therefore proving your argument (which states that this mark only comes out when S/T is used) wrong.

Also, the mark came out as Madara switches his body with Limbo.

 

[Punk Hazard]

He didn't prove anything. There was no communication between Sasuke and Naruto before he attacked. We have seen Sasuke use his S/T on Naruto before and they communicated prior to the S/T being used. There was a plan. That didn't happen here. We don't see Sasuke doing anything immediately prior or after the attack -

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- It would be very dumb and danger for Sasuke to use his S/T on Naruto without telling him against Kaguya. Naruto wasn't surprise during his attack. If Sasuke have S/T Naruto he would have been surprise.

2 - Guy used the same SFX when he first used the 8th Gate -

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that Naruto did -

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- So now Guy can use S/T jutsu.

The part about communication means nothing. Naruto and Sasuke have pulled off flawless teamwork without talking before.

The Gai thing is a really good point though, I hadn't noticed that.

 

[shadowcb]

The lack of communication doesn't matter. Back in part one, it was stressed that Naruto and Sasuke can pull off flawless teamwork without communication. Go back to where they did the Shadow Shuriken combo to Zabuza. It happened again when they combined Amaterasu with Rasenshuriken and while they were bonded with Kurama coated in Susano'o, they didn't need to talk for it to work.

Also, saying that the SFX doesn't work because Kishi doesn't always include them is like saying if Sasuke doesn't say Chidori, then the lightning in his palm isn't Chidori anymore. It doesn't matter that Kishi doesn't always include them. What matters is, when he does include them, he assigns specific SFX to the movement. What matters is the SFX for FTG is never used for anything but FTG; the SFX for Shunshiin is never used for anything but Shunshiin; the SFX for Ameno is never used for anything but Ameno.

Communication is important. Every time we saw Sasuke use his S/T jutsu on Naruto they communicated and had a plan. We don't see that here. When Naruto and the rest of the rookies attacked Obito they communicated -

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to

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- That didn't communicate here.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Show me scan please

Trust me, I'm a plumber.

 

[KesOnFire]

Trust me, I'm a plumber.

Where is the scan?

 

[Ripple Hole]

Where is the scan?

No scans, trust the plumber.
Neg rep me, I want a lightsaber

 

[KesOnFire]

No scans, trust the plumber.
Neg rep me, I want a lightsaber

Well I gtg for an hour hope when I come back you can prove kayuga being faster than Naruto even though I didn't ask you I asked someone else.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Well I gtg for an hour hope when I come back you can prove kayuga being faster than Naruto even though I didn't ask you I asked someone else.

Sure.

Still waiting for my rep .

 

[Alastor]

Yes, I know. Its BS that you believe Kishi made a mistake with 4th S/T, but can't believe he might mistake with Naruto's speed.

Like I said there is nothing supporting Sasuke used a S/T on Naruto. They are fighting Kaguya and Sasuke already stated it's very important that they survive and defeat her. Every time we have seen Sasuke use his S/T jutsu on Naruto they communicated and had a plan. We don't see that here. When Naruto and the rest of the rookies fought Obito they communicated. For Naruto to communicate telepathically his chakra must be touching that person. His chakra wasn't touching Sasuke. What's important is they communicated. That didn't communicate here.

I see can't explain Guy's SFX. Madara did talk about Guy distorted space, but he still wasn't using a S/T jutsu and they was later when he was using Night Moth -

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- He wasn't using that jutsu at that time.

I do not think Naruto's case is a mistake because we actually have a logical way to explain it, whereas you can't just sit there and tell me that it's normal for Minato to be using a shunshin jutsu hand sign and having the shunshin SFX but teleporting instead. Let's not forget that Kishi didn't even effectively differentiate between shunshin and Hiraishin back then and would often confuse the two.

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And it's like you didn't actually read. Sasuke needs to communicate his thoughts out-loud, not Naruto. To Obito who was an onlooker, Naruto didn't seem to communicate anything to anyone when he was talking to Lee and co, that's what matters. Just because you do not see it happen on panel does not mean that it didn't. And Naruto doesn't need to touch people, he just needs to be linked via chakra which he was due to the Yin-Yang seals.
I did explain Guy's SFX actually, distorting space allows you to teleport... that's pretty much how S-T ninjutsu works regardless of how it's called. Madara not being able to see guy move and reach him is further proof that wasn't merely movement as he could keep up with Guy's attacks to some degree.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Sasuke not being able to touch Kaguya (he did by the way) is irrelevant to what happened. That's like Saying that Naruto cannot use TBB on people just because he chose to use them on TBB and other large things instead. The plan argument has already been addressed.

Kaguya only created her TSBV after absorbing chakra from the Infinite Tsukuyomi, so that's flawed as well.

Sasuke teleporting Naruto to attack Kaguya makes no sense as

Sasuke never told Naruto

Sasuke just attempted to teleport blitz Kaguya a few panels before and failed(this was immediately after Obito was stabbed) yet Kaguya could react fast enough to counter(you posted the panel yourself in the ST sfx examples) Why would they try the same failed only a few moments later? And why would it suddenly work without any prior planning and no change in the variables apart from the fact that Naruto was attacking and not Sasuke?

ST tactics are usually executed with the person being teleported having prior knowledge of the fact that he is about the jump:

Tobirama liased with Minato on their switching tactic against Obito
Minato planned the barrier positionings with the other Kage
Kakashi and team 7 planned their ST tactic that eventually sealed Kaguya

Without prior information the teleported party usually ends up with a shocked look on their face.

Like when Tobirama used his jutsu to save a few fodders from the god tree.

Anytime Naruto is summoned by the toads without prior notice.

When Team 7 were teleported by Kaguya to her different dimensions

When Obito was teleported by Minato and Tobirama with their FTG swap tech.

Heck when Obito warped Sakura in and out of his dimension; first when he was about to seal bijuu into Naruto and when he wanted to save her from Madarw

So you're basically saying that sth which didn't work for Sasuke suddenly worked a few seconds later for Naruto when it was attempted without any prior planning at all.


Your whole theory is based on sfx.

 

[NarutoX28]

This is to be expected OP. Naruto fanboys are going to deny a position that nerfs Naruto even when valid evidence has been provided.

It's okay though, this is actually good entertainment seeing them getting flustered as fuark and making pathetic arguments as a result.

 

[Alastor]

You're dismissing the evidence to suit your argument.

What the marks were used for doesn't really matter because they were used at moments where there was no S/T involved, therefore proving your argument (which states that this mark only comes out when S/T is used) wrong.

Also, the mark came out as Madara switches his body with Limbo.

I really don't think I am.
My argument does not imply they only come when S-T ninjutsu is used, it implies that the marks used are obviously different from those used to illustrate fast movement.
I do not see how Madara switching with his limbo using the same marks affects the argument. I always thought Limbo switching works similar to ameno switching.

 

[Ripple Hole]

This is to be expected OP. Naruto fanboys are going to deny a position that nerfs Naruto even when valid evidence has been provided.

It's okay though, this is actually good entertainment seeing them getting flustered as fuark and making pathetic arguments as a result.

Naruto doesn't need to be faster than Kaguya :^)
Just faster than Sasuke.

 

[Alastor]

Sasuke teleporting Naruto to attack Kaguya makes no sense as

Sasuke never told Naruto

Already addressed.

Sasuke just attempted to teleport blitz Kaguya a few panels before and failed(this was immediately after Obito was stabbed) yet Kaguya could react fast enough to counter(you posted the panel yourself in the ST sfx examples) Why would they try the same failed only a few moments later? And why would it suddenly work without any prior planning and no change in the variables apart from the fact that Naruto was attacking and not Sasuke?

Because Sasuke failed to tag her when he was affected by increased gravity whereas Naruto is not and because Kaguya had just wasted even more chakra switching dimensions again to escape from Sasuke's chidori which would have made her even slower.
ST tactics are usually executed with the person being teleported having prior knowledge of the fact that he is about the jump:

Tobirama liased with Minato on their switching tactic against Obito
Minato planned the barrier positionings with the other Kage
Kakashi and team 7 planned their ST tactic that eventually sealed Kaguya

Without prior information the teleported party usually ends up with a shocked look on their face.

Like when Tobirama used his jutsu to save a few fodders from the god tree.

Anytime Naruto is summoned by the toads without prior notice.

When Team 7 were teleported by Kaguya to her different dimensions

When Obito was teleported by Minato and Tobirama with their FTG swap tech.

Heck when Obito warped Sakura in and out of his dimension; first when he was about to seal bijuu into Naruto and when he wanted to save her from Madarw

Literally none of what you said here matters. Naruto can and has communicated his plans without using speech, none of the posted people above have.

So you're basically saying that sth which didn't work for Sasuke suddenly worked a few seconds later for Naruto when it was attempted without any prior planning at all.

Yeah, it's not like Sasuke was hindered with gravity or anything and it's not like Kaguya just switched dimensions again seconds prior to that either.
Your whole theory is based on sfx.
It is, but it still seems sound unlike your counter arguments.

Addressed above

 

[shadowcb]

I do not think Naruto's case is a mistake because we actually have a logical way to explain it, whereas you can't just sit there and tell me that it's normal for Minato to be using a shunshin jutsu hand sign and having the shunshin SFX but teleporting instead. Let's not forget that Kishi didn't even effectively differentiate between shunshin and Hiraishin back then and would often confuse the two.

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And it's like you didn't actually read. Sasuke needs to communicate his thoughts out-loud, not Naruto. To Obito who was an onlooker, Naruto didn't seem to communicate anything to anyone when he was talking to Lee and co, that's what matters. Just because you do not see it happen on panel does not mean that it didn't. And Naruto doesn't need to touch people, he just needs to be linked via chakra which he was due to the Yin-Yang seals.
I did explain Guy's SFX actually, distorting space allows you to teleport... that's pretty much how S-T ninjutsu works regardless of how it's called. Madara not being able to see guy move and reach him is further proof that wasn't merely movement as he could keep up with Guy's attacks to some degree.

I have already explained this.

Like I said there is nothing supporting Sasuke used a S/T on Naruto. There have always been some indication from the manga when Sasuke used his S/T on Naruto. We don't have that here. The only thing you have to support your claim is SFX that was used. We didn't see Sasuke do anything immediately prior or after Naruto attacked Kaguya that would support his using his S/T jutsu. When Naruto and the rest of the rookies fought Obito they communicated. For Naruto to communicate telepathically his chakra must be touching that person. His chakra wasn't touching Sasuke.

It's fact Naruto is very fast and have very fast relaxes. It fact the more Naruto uses his speed the better and faster he becomes.

Guy was using his Night Moth -

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- at that time. It's distort space, but it's not a S/T jutsu. He's not traveling through Space and Time.

Guy was uisng Evening elephant here -

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- The manga explained to use his that jutsu works -

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[Ripple Hole]

well i gtg for an hour hope when i come back you can prove kayuga being faster than naruto even though i didn't ask you i asked someone else.

I have returned! And in conclusion naruto is faster than kaguya.
All info regarding him and kaguya, implies naruto's speed is most likely
stale competition with kaguya's though his reaction gives him the edge!

Behold the #mangaphax!

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All their interaction regarding speed shows Naruto countering Kaguya, and blitzing her.

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All of that while spending massive amounts of chakra(Or some speed as you say)
on clones.