VOTE Madara vs Gaiden Sasuke (No Sage Power)

[KeyofDestiny]

]So why are you defending them when i claimed they're going to dislike other people's post because they're your friends?[/B] Also im not about to argue over a dislike button and the obvious. This thread is Sasuke vs Madara and since i already stopped you on that im done with it.

Because that is not why. Can you even read?

Oh wait.

 

[Unorthodox]

Because that is not why. Can you even read?

Oh wait.

If your not interested in the debate please do not reply to me

 

[KeyofDestiny]

If your not interested in the debate please do not reply to me

Then please don't cry to me (you started this conversation) when people dislike your posts.

 

[Unorthodox]

Then please don't cry to me (you started this conversation) when people dislike your posts.

I was not crying about people disliking my post because i don't give a phuck about a dislike i was just saying why they dislike a post is because there your squad. Why you always gotta use the word cry damn that annoys me. I started it and i'll end it that simple but your still not trying to debate the thread topic so much for ignoring me

 

[Bieber]

Sasuke wins.

 

[Lariatoo]

I do not know you so do not reply to my post and if your not disliking shit why you even talking?



Waiting for my counter argument

Im just saying my opinion...

 

[Waltz]

Sasuke shits. He overpowers Madara's Genjutsu on Kurama with Rinnegan Genjutsu and then puts it into CT. He proceeds to fight Madara and then use outter paths to absorb Kurama's power. His Bijuu PS becomes stronger then he was at VOTE because 100% Kurama solo's.
I'll add this here:

Spoiler

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This was before Sasuke received his Rinnegan. Assume Oro spoke of alive EMS Madara and knew everything about him, that leads me to believe Sasuke in his 30's is prime, and with Rinnegan he should be far superior to Madara. Note that he would surpass, not be on par with. Without a Rinnegan.

This will never work.

1)There's no way Sasuke can engage Madara and simultaneously utilize Outer paths ability (which is rather time consuming) to absorb the Kyuubi's Chakra.

2) Madara will simply re-summon the Kyuubi out of CT and regain control of it. Madara has a contract with the Kyuubi; a simple Chibaku tensei isn't going to keep him from summoning it again just as Chibaku didn't restrain the Gedou Mazou from being Summoned. ​

 

[Apêx1]

This will never work.

1)There's no way Sasuke can engage Madara and simultaneously utilize Outer paths ability (which is rather time consuming) to absorb the Kyuubi's Chakra.

2) Madara will simply re-summon the Kyuubi out of CT and regain control of it. Madara has a contract with the Kyuubi; a simple Chibaku tensei isn't going to keep him from summoning it again just as Chibaku didn't restrain the Gedou Mazou from being Summoned. ​

It was merely an option. But I agree with your second point, he can release it and then summon it again. But it doesn't change the fact that it would still be under Sasuke's Genjutsu.

So Sasuke can simply absorb the Kyuubi's chakra with Preta Path. Nagato has already shown the capacity to absorb huge amounts of chakra. He absorbed the entire v2 cloak off of Bee. Given Sasuke being the initial owner of the eye, and probably having greater ability with it then that particular sick Edo Nagato, Sasuke can absorb quite a bit of chakra to enhance his PS to a level far beyond that of what Madara can create. And it's definitely not going to be hard for Sasuke to absorb its chakra with his ability to Ameno to it.

Another point, Madara cannot summon the Kyuubi while he's in his PS. He and Obito have both shown to need to put their hands on the floor to summon it [

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][

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]. If Madara ever deactivates to such a level then Sasuke has the opportunity to one shot him with Ameno or PS. Otherwise Madara will have to deal with not having the Kyuubi, while he's fighting a Kyuubi-chakra enhanced Rinnegan Sasuke.

@bold clairfy

 

[Waltz]

@Apex:

Also; Orochimaru's assumption that Sasuke will surpass Madara does not equate to Sasuke will always be stronger than Madara. The only time Sasuke surpassed EMS Madara was when he received the Powerup from Hagoromo. Although VoTE-2 Sasuke vs Naruto utilized many chakra consuming techniques, it was not nearly as lengthy a battle as Hashrama vs Madara. In terms of chakra control; putting Hagoromo's gift aside----nothing Sasuke showcased in the war before complaining for Chakra rivals what Madara did (control the Kyuubi + utilize Perfect Susano'o + other Jutsu) in his fight which lasted over 12hrs. Then there is the key factor that Madara almost outlasted Hashirama's Chakra pools which attests to this: ​

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[Rιver]

Uh, not it doesn't. It still means MS>3T Genjutsu. It just means 3T is capable of such feats when enhanced by Hashirama's cells. Not to mention, Obito had Yagura, a perfect Jin, under his control. Also had like 5 Bijuu under Genjutsu at the same time. He's on some next level shit. Hashirama's cells were there since he was a kid and had the Kyuubi under control. So my point stands. Hiruzen using all ninjutsu was obviously hyperbole smh. Itachi's statement cannot be hyperbolised, he was stating a fact. You cannot hyperbolise or falsify a character saying deidara>minato or something.

Smh, did you literally skip the part where the Bijuu were defying him and he used Outer Path to control them as well?

Smh again, Hashiramas cells do not boost his MS techniques not genjutsu just gives smaller interval between them. By this logic Obito should have had boosted Kamui.

Smh still remains a hyperbole.

It's in the databook 4. That's all the proof you need. And IT was only viable against non-Rinnegan users. That's more then enough for me to believe Rinnegan has a greater capacity for Genjutsu then EMS does. As Itachi stated, you need the same Dojutsu to counter a Genjutsu coming from that Dojutsu. To counter an MS Genjutsu, you need MS or something enhancing your 3T to the point where it's MS level. To counter IT, a Rinnegan Genjutsu, you need Rinnegan. It's THAT simple.

Everything in this is trash.

1. MS Genjutsu broken by 3T in canon.

2. Nagato had no genjutsu yet can resist Rinnegan Genjutsu due to canon evidence.

3. Only reason one can resist genjutsu is if they use the same eyes.

Smh dude.

Orochimaru has showed 0 Genjutsu skills but has a 5 in Genjutsu. What's your point? Not that I ever mentioned he has Sharingan Genjutsu in the first place.

Orochimaru has gotten trashed already in genjutsu why bring it up? Stop giving Nagato genjutsu dude. Smh.

Yep, but 3T cannot cast genjutsu on Rinnegan, Rinnegan would be capable of casting Genjutsu on 3T (assuming it has Genjutsu capacity). In Sasuke's case however, he has tomoe rinnegan allowing him to cast Rinne level Genjutsu. The superior eye wins, so nothing can block his Genjutsu while his Genjutsu can block all since the Rinnegan is the ultimate level of Dojutsu.

Did you skip the part of the manga where Kakashi and Obito stalemated in genjutsu despite him having Rinnegan? All I can say is smh again.

It means his Rinnegan casts Genjutsu. That puts it above all other Genjutsu.

Smh.

Yep, but a dimension in which everything was under Oro's control.

He changed the Genjutsu completely, what are you talking about. And he changed it INSIDE of the Genjutsu, while his real self was fighting Naruto. That shits on your whole point.

>complete control
>Sasuke takes over

Nice control.

And smh I just said this what are you talking about.

Zetsu said what I am arguing against? So by your interpretation of that scan, 3T can cast Genjutsu upon EMS if the 3T user is far more powerful then the EMS user. Even though Itachi clearly stated otherwise.

No, it clearly wasn't. He had an external factor strengthening his jutsu.

Not at all. It's just your usual lacklustre interpretation of manga.

Oh my god.

White Zetsu asks why MS user was beaten by 3T user. Black Zetsu replies that Sharingan is just a tool that is dependent on users skill. Mode has nothing to do with it.

And you with your heavy balls have the courage to say mode > skill while Zetsu and Obito literally destroyed your argument here with just 2 pages. Smh.

Yeah give me some proof that Hashiramas cells has anything to do with genjutsus strength.

 

[Apêx1]

@Apex:

Also; Orochimaru's assumption that Sasuke will surpass Madara does not equate to Sasuke will always be stronger than Madara. The only time Sasuke surpassed EMS Madara was when he received the Powerup from Hagoromo. Although VoTE-2 Sasuke vs Naruto utilized many chakra consuming techniques, it was not nearly as lengthy a battle as Hashrama vs Madara. In terms of chakra control; putting Hagoromo's gift aside----nothing Sasuke showcased in the war before complaining for Chakra rivals what Madara did (control the Kyuubi + utilize Perfect Susano'o + other Jutsu) in his fight which lasted over 12hrs. Then there is the key factor that Madara almost outlasted Hashirama's Chakra pools which attests to this:

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​

You misunderstood that scan. Orochimaru had absolutely no way of knowing Sasuke would meet Hagromo and receive a power-up, that is a blatant assumption on your part. He was clearly talking about EMS Sasuke. This is Rinnegan Sasuke. He's 30 and has either reached Madara's level had he been EMS, or surpassed him. For the sake of argument I'll say EMS Sasuke would be equal to EMS Madara at the age of 30. But unfortunately for you, Sasuke attained the Rinnegan. So Sasuke will win this regardless of anyway you look at it. @underlined The 9 Chibaku Tensei's were probably more chakra then Madara used his entire fight. Not that it matters, because this is Sasuke at 30, whereas he was 17 against Naruto. 13 years easily means he's increased his chakra levels dramatically since chakra grows through the development of spiritual and physical energy. The former is experience while the latter is physical development. Sasuke has clearly developed his chakra enough to not be affected by a prolonged battle. If you are suggesting this will become a battle of attrition, I beg to differ as Sasuke has more firepower and greater potential for victory with Ameno, Genjutsu, Enton Kagutuschi and all his Rinnegan techniques. Do note, the absorption of Susano chakra is also a possibility and sending a clone to do so would surely be beneficial (even uses Kage Bunshins in the upcoming canon movie). And don't forget Madara will be using Kurama from the get-go, Sasuke absorbs its chakra after putting it into Genjutsu and any notions of Madara outlasting become ludicrous.

@river, if you don't know that Hashirama's cells increase the power of your jutsu then I don't see the need in continuing our debate. It's not like the caster of Edo Tensei received greater control of his Edo's right? Not like Izanagi was only possible because of Hashi cells, not like KA's cooldown was enhanced. These are all juts which either are related to the Sharingan or concern 'control'. Not to mention Itachi stated it's only possible to control the Kyuubi with MS. Obito controlling it is obviously going to be attributed to external factors ie Hashi cells. It is the only way to prevent any manga contradiction.

 

[Waltz]

You misunderstood that scan. Orochimaru had absolutely no way of knowing Sasuke would meet Hagromo and receive a power-up, that is a blatant assumption on your part. He was clearly talking about EMS Sasuke. This is Rinnegan Sasuke. He's 30 and has either reached Madara's level had he been EMS, or surpassed him. For the sake of argument I'll say EMS Sasuke would be equal to EMS Madara at the age of 30. But unfortunately for you, Sasuke attained the Rinnegan. So Sasuke will win this regardless of anyway you look at it. @underlined The 9 Chibaku Tensei's were probably more chakra then Madara used his entire fight. Not that it matters, because this is Sasuke at 30, whereas he was 17 against Naruto. 13 years easily means he's increased his chakra levels dramatically since chakra grows through the development of spiritual and physical energy. The former is experience while the latter is physical development. Sasuke has clearly developed his chakra enough to not be affected by a prolonged battle. If you are suggesting this will become a battle of attrition, I beg to differ as Sasuke has more firepower and greater potential for victory with Ameno, Genjutsu, Enton Kagutuschi and all his Rinnegan techniques. Do note, the absorption of Susano chakra is also a possibility and sending a clone to do so would surely be beneficial (even uses Kage Bunshins in the upcoming canon movie). And don't forget Madara will be using Kurama from the get-go, Sasuke absorbs its chakra after putting it into Genjutsu and any notions of Madara outlasting become ludicrous.

Where did I assume that? I stated this:

Orochimaru's assumption that Sasuke will surpass Madara does not equate to Sasuke will always be stronger than Madara. The only time Sasuke surpassed EMS Madara was when he received the Powerup from Hagoromo.

@ Underlined: What qualifies that? Age is irrelevant tbh.

@ Red: That is only true within context of your false premise that EMS Sasuke at 30=EMS Madara at Vote.

@ Blue: He had the Rikudo Powerup.

@Yellow: Still does not qualify to say that Sasuke's is greater than or equates to Madara's at VoTE.

@ Green: Gaiden Sasuke didn't endure any "prolonged" battles to qualify or quantify that Statement.

@ Purple: What firepower does Sasuke possess that can breech Madara's Kanzentai's defenses? Having an extended arsenal doesn't automatically suggest victory. Amenotijikara isn't affecting Madara as long as he remains in Perfect Susano'o who's shear size alone keeps him outside of it's radius. Woah....Apex, don't run off giving Sasuke Kage-bunshin's because of a movie trailer when we're still in unawares of the reason he was able to do. It could have been a "Genjutsu" scene or perhaps a "Dream"; point is we're in unawares. Preta's absorption takes time and for Sasuke to absorb Susano'o it means he must be directly in contact with it via Preta's orb which only extend's a few inches from the users body. Being that close to Madara's Kanzentai will leave him subject to the full force of it's destruction incarnate sword swipes----In other words----potential death. Clarify? Who stated Madara would be using Kurama from the get-go? Again, putting Hagoromo's gift aside there's nothing Sasuke displayed in the war prior to complaining for Chakra that rivals what Madara did at VoTE against Shodaime.
​

It was merely an option. But I agree with your second point, he can release it and then summon it again. But it doesn't change the fact that it would still be under Sasuke's Genjutsu.

So Sasuke can simply absorb the Kyuubi's chakra with Preta Path. Nagato has already shown the capacity to absorb huge amounts of chakra. He absorbed the entire v2 cloak off of Bee. Given Sasuke being the initial owner of the eye, and probably having greater ability with it then that particular sick Edo Nagato, Sasuke can absorb quite a bit of chakra to enhance his PS to a level far beyond that of what Madara can create. And it's definitely not going to be hard for Sasuke to absorb its chakra with his ability to Ameno to it.

Another point, Madara cannot summon the Kyuubi while he's in his PS. He and Obito have both shown to need to put their hands on the floor to summon it [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. If Madara ever deactivates to such a level then Sasuke has the opportunity to one shot him with Ameno or PS. Otherwise Madara will have to deal with not having the Kyuubi, while he's fighting a Kyuubi-chakra enhanced Rinnegan Sasuke.

@bold clairfy

@ Bold: It does because by contract, it will no longer be under his control. Its the same reason why that Sexy Blondie was able to release Kurama's control from Obito. So whatever else you suggested can be omitted. Why are you applying the No limits fallacy to Preta that because it was able absorb a cloak that it would be able to absorb the almost limitless chakra of the kyuubi (which it can continue to recharge while being absorbed)? Also that would be an extremely time consuming process which again firstly, grants Madara a vast window to intercept the absorption and lastly does not occur because Madara will re-summon the Kyuubi.

@ Red: Susano'o does not prohibit him from moving his arms. He even utilized Katon Jutsu from within the Susano'o. He can use Susano-o's outer casing as a substitute for what you call "floor". ​

 

[LuckyMan]

Sasuke uses Shadow Clones now? Since when?

 

[Rιver]

@Apex: I accept your concession.

 

[Rιver]

Sasuke uses Shadow Clones now? Since when?

Movies.

 

[Zef]

Sasuke uses Shadow Clones now? Since when?

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[LuckyMan]

Movies.

Ay IV used Shadow Clone jutsu in the Blood Prison movie, made by the same guy who made the Last, so are we allowing him to spam clones with his Bijuu amounts of chakra and shitblitz to infinity?

 

[King Of Pop]

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and before any one says "it might be genjutsu bla bla", it explicitly showed him forming the seals so yeah.

OT. based on how i feel would have progressed had he not met hags, he wins here.

 

[Rιver]

Ay IV used Shadow Clone jutsu in the Blood Prison movie, made by the same guy who made the Last, so are we allowing him to spam clones with his Bijuu amounts of chakra and shitblitz to infinity?

This movie is canon.

 

[ARGUS]

Orochimaru clearly stated that sasuke has the potential to surpass madara one day
Doesn't mean that he has actually done so
Nor was it explicitly stated that it had to be EMS sasuke,

Using orochimarus statement to justify that EMS sasuke can surpass EMS madara holds no merit when feats and portrayal heavily disagree