Rinnegan Sasuke vs SM Hashirama

[KeyofDestiny]

Unsubstantiated? Ya know; At a point I gave thought to what is 'harder' your skull or the Jubi's hide but I'll be honest, you entertained me. Speaking of the main argument; in your previous post you stated something so logically detestable that it heavily swayed my interest from continuing this discussion. You stated this:

​

Or in other words that: If there is every a case regarding the uncertainty in a Jutsu or anything for that matter then what Cannon say's goes because Canon statements will always trump uncertain assertions.

I'll draw a final example of the ridiculousness in your logic. An individual which we will call "A" makes an uncertain pertaining to a particular Jutsu:

Uncertain Assertion made by "A": I do not believe Rikiri can cut a Lightening bolt or even Kirin simply because the Databook say's so.

Your logic and line of reason: The Databook (cannon) says Rikiri can cut a lightening and you don't have proof of it doing so, so It can cut Kirin.

Reality: Due to it's shear magnitude and power Kirin would evaporate both Kakashi and his Rikiri.​

Are you really going to continue making yourself look like a fool with these shitty examples? This debate has declined in quality because all you can do is make assumptions, ignore canon, and cry about logical fallacies when they don't even apply here.

1. Kirin is not a regular Lightning bolt. Kirin is a combination of many lightning bolts formed into a giant dragon. So it doesn't even fall under the category of being able to be cut by Raikiri. Why the hell are you mentioning it?

2. Whether or not Raikiri can cut Kirin isn't an uncertain assumption, because Raikiri's feats in the Manga are proof that it cannot overpower Kirin. There is no uncertain statement here. You are trying to invent one like you've tried to do for the past 3 posts.

Your examples become stupider and stupider the more you post.

Now, you see everything within this spoiler (Take a good look at it):

It is essentially this:

Not only is it a fallacy but the mere fact that you go on to defend the silly notion of Hiruzen knowing all the Jutsu within the leaf shows that your entire way of thinking is fallacious. There is no longer any need for me to waste post's responding to you. I initially got the notion after reading this:

Red herring? Once again, you throw a fallacy that doesn't apply here at a post that you have no counter for. You brought up those piss poor things you have the nerve to call valid examples to the table, ignoring the whole basis you need to have to even make a comparison. UNCERTAIN STATEMENTS. None of your statements were uncertain, and I showed that. Please tell me where I "changed the subject". Oh wait, I don't expect an answer. I expect you to find another fallacy from the internet and copy and paste it here since nothing intelligent can come from your own mind.

Like I said, it depends on what one thinks when the term "all jutsu in the leaf" is mentioned. But of course, Waltz is gonna do what Waltz does best and ignore statements that clearly address the nonsense he spews. Please save me the bullshit pal.

The underlined is essentially:

Oh look. Another logical fallacy that doesn't apply here. Your fallacy falls short for the simple reason that there is no unfavorable circumstance for my argument. What's even funnier about your idiotic style of debating is that while you sit there copy and pasting logical fallacies instead of addressing the arguments in front of you, you fail to realize that this very fallacy is one you've made.

-You state that Sasuke using PS is why Obito fell, because they were fighting before with Susanoo and Kurama and lost.
-Yet you ignore that Sasuke used PS, and that Sasuke armored PS onto Kurama and then defeated Obito.

You state that Obito fell because Sasuke brought out PS, but no Manga panel proves that. Manga panels show that the combination of their Avatars is what beat him. Manga panels show that Boosted Susanoo=Perfect Susanoo (Sasuke's)

Since we do not know the full capabilities of Rin'negan-Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o without the Rikudo powerup, the red is essentially:

I made a detailed post on why his boosted Susanoo is equal to his Perfect Susanoo, but all you could do was ignore it and throw "conjecture" at it. So please tell me how appeal to ignorance works here when I've posted my reasoning for everything I've stated and have never once stated that "it's right because Manga doesn't say it's wrong"? You need to learn how to read first of all, and then stop picking pieces of my post and throwing fallacies at them while ignoring the parts with the actual evidence. Please tell me how my argument is conjecture when I've posted scans that prove my argument.

Nothing but a joke poster with sub par argumentation at best.


I'm 100% convinced that you don't even know how to apply these fallacies to an opponent's argumentation if needed, because all you have done this whole debate is cry" fallacy that, fallacy this" even though none of them even begin to apply. Do me a favor and stop wasting my time. Any spectator with half a brain probably wishes for the same.​

 

[Varrah]

I can't get past Gehrman on Bloodborne.​

 

[ARGUS]

Lol just like the previous thread, nothing has changed. SS will always shit on him

SS canonically took out a far superior PS along with Full Kyuubi, sasukes inferior PS alone stands no chance as he gets pummelled down into the dirt and garbaged by a single chojo kobetsu,

PS is the best thing that sasuke posseses, its offense wont have any affect on even mokujin or hobi, and a superior defense was one shotted in canon despite having the aid of full kyuubi counterattacking SS's fists

PS chidori (if sasuke can do it) is the strongest offense he has, but at best its equivalent to a standard TBB, but requires a direct contact to land, probably the dumbest thing to do since he gets wide open for mokujin to manhandle at close quarters or he's wide open for chojo

No amount of rinnegan techniques would help sasuke the second hashirama brings out his constructs.

--amenos range isnt helping ssasuke evade hashiramas attacks and it being used as a close range attack wont have an affect either, since hashiramas reactions > sasukes, meaning he reacts, and blocks his attack. If he has mokuton clones around then sasuke gets ganged up on and overwhelmed in close quarters

--CT gets shat on by Chojo

--CST gets tanked with little to no damage

--any other six path jutsu is trash to even sasukes PS, let alone hashirama

sasuke using his rinnegan techniques in conjunction with PS is something thats fanfic, since he doesnt have the reserves to use something as taxing as PS and rinnegan together. based on feats and portrayal, Nagatos reserves are above sasukes and he was pushed to limits after using his six path jutsus,

all of it doesnt matter anyways since using the rinnegan or PS wont have any affect

and did i really see clowns claim that amatearsu or entons are the game changer? these are the same flames that:

--failed to burn even the KN0 chakra and got swept aside

--failed to even affect Ay

--failed to burn fodder zetsus

--failed to burn through the samurai armor

base mokutons that needed the output of several rasengans to match are not getting affected by theses flames let alone constructs like mokujin, let alone SS

 

[Waltz]

You don't have a real reason as to why Sasuke wins, aside from all the speculative nonsense you were spouting earlier.

Gave you one from the get go as I referenced PDG's question. :xD:

Hashirama knows nothing of the inner workings of Sasuke's Rinne-Sharingan. With Amenotejikara Sasuke can shift himself, others, and objects, a set distance away from his original location. Since the Sharingan could give Sasuke an internal visual of the opponent; if Sasuke is able to get Hashirama within its radius by some means would you agree that he could remove Hashirama's heart? ​

 

[ARGUS]

Gave you one from the get go as I referenced PDG's question. :xD:

Hashirama knows nothing of the inner workings of Sasuke's Rinne-Sharingan.​

Your post immediately lost credibility here, since his dojutsu is just the rinnegan as stated by himself, the manga and the DB,

With Amenotejikara Sasuke can shift himself, others, and objects, a set distance away from his original location. Since the Sharingan could give Sasuke an internal visual of the opponent; if Sasuke is able to get Hashirama within its radius by some means would you agree that he could remove Hashirama's heart?

​

amenotejikaras range is primitive, he is never getting to hashirama,
besides its still based on the users reactions and as it stands, he isnt reflexive enough to blitz hashirama wiith no reaction, when he failed to do so against BM naruto through downscaling,
his strike will always get blocked and during his cooldown, he gets smacked aside

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Gave you one from the get go as I referenced PDG's question. :xD:

Hashirama knows nothing of the inner workings of Sasuke's Rinne-Sharingan. With Amenotejikara Sasuke can shift himself, others, and objects, a set distance away from his original location. Since the Sharingan could give Sasuke an internal visual of the opponent; if Sasuke is able to get Hashirama within its radius by some means would you agree that he would be able to remove Hashirama's heart? ​

Spoiler

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The contents of the spoiler should tell you my answer. :lol Amenotejikara lets Sasuke enter other dimensions and it lets him teleport to any location in his radius or teleport anything in his radius wherever he pleases. Hashirama is in his radius, but Hashirama's organs are inside of his body. Separate from the outside area which is what Sasuke can warp.

I really hope you aren't going to take advantage of what Ameno's ability is listed as to say Sasuke can start warping people's insides out of their bodies, something no teleporter has ever shown to do. Shin grabbed a hold of Sasuke's blade and Sasuke was only able to warp away without it. [

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] Why would we give Ameno nonsensical abilities such as removing the opponent's organs? Lmfao. I honestly feel like I'm being trolled here.

I'm expecting you to throw:

-Conjecture.
-Ad ignorantium.
-argumentum ad ignorantiam

In my face though, despite how unsupported and crazy such a claim is,

 

[solorflare99]

Gave you one from the get go as I referenced PDG's question. :xD:

Hashirama knows nothing of the inner workings of Sasuke's Rinne-Sharingan. With Amenotejikara Sasuke can shift himself, others, and objects, a set distance away from his original location. Since the Sharingan could give Sasuke an internal visual of the opponent; if Sasuke is able to get Hashirama within its radius by some means would you agree that he could remove Hashirama's heart? ​

I was following you until the bold.
First you would have to prove that Sharingan can see as far enough into peoples bodies that it can see organs.
Second you would have to prove that Ameno can remove things that it teleports.

 

[Waltz]

Your post immediately lost credibility here, since his dojutsu is just the rinnegan as stated by himself, the manga and the DB,

amenotejikaras range is primitive, he is never getting to hashirama,
besides its still based on the users reactions and as it stands, he isnt reflexive enough to blitz hashirama wiith no reaction, when he failed to do so against BM naruto through downscaling,
his strike will always get blocked and during his cooldown, he gets smacked aside

Your answer to this question with determine the end of our discussion.

In a battle, would it be out of character for Hashirama to engage in CQC with Sasuke? ​

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Sasuke wins high diff.imo

Rikudo chakra may boost the strength/speed of a attack and may even stretch the duration of any with limit, however it doesn't change the overall effect of things like ningendo,soul dragon, rinne genjustu or even the process of CT(not needing a core). Not to mention hashirama has less ways of killing sasuke than vice versa. Soussano is much better than buddha when it comes to mobility and now that sasuke can merge elements with his sousano like enton and raiton, he would at least destroy to some extent. Not to mention that sasuke's sousnao can fly, meaning he can reach hashirama way faster than hashirama can reach him. with that being said amatrasu can burn slowly into it untill it falls down or reach the point where hashirama is controlling it. The golem will go down after few CSTs so it'll not be much of a problem. And it'll eventually come down to half destroyed SS which is slowly getting burned to the core+SM hashirama vs rinnegan sasuke with no sousano. Sasuke will then only need to summon the gedo mazo and use the soul dragon to force hashirama to dodge it meaning he will leave the point where he is controlling the SS and will then come down to Sasuke vs hashirama in one vs one which I then believe that sasuke will take due basho tenin followed by ningendo.

 

[ARGUS]

Your answer to this question with determine the end of our discussion.

In a battle, would it be out of character for Hashirama to engage in CQC with Sasuke? ​

not only is hashirama superior to sasuke in CQC, but it doesnt even matter when its in character or not,
however chances are that upon seeing an oppnent like hashirama, sasuke would take out his PS, making it a batttle where he gets shat on

 

[Waltz]

not only is hashirama superior to sasuke in CQC, but it doesnt even matter when its in character or not,
however chances are that upon seeing an oppnent like hashirama, sasuke would take out his PS, making it a batttle where he gets shat on

Then Hashirama is within Amenotejikara's radius.​

I was following you until the bold.
First you would have to prove that Sharingan can see as far enough into peoples bodies that it can see organs.
Second you would have to prove that Ameno can remove things that it teleports.

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@ Underlined. Amenotejikara is a Space-time Ninjutsu: It warps space and time. ​

 

[Waltz]

Spoiler

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The contents of the spoiler should tell you my answer. :lol Amenotejikara lets Sasuke enter other dimensions and it lets him teleport to any location in his radius or teleport anything in his radius wherever he pleases. Hashirama is in his radius, but Hashirama's organs are inside of his body. Separate from the outside area which is what Sasuke can warp.

I really hope you aren't going to take advantage of what Ameno's ability is listed as to say Sasuke can start warping people's insides out of their bodies, something no teleporter has ever shown to do. Shin grabbed a hold of Sasuke's blade and Sasuke was only able to warp away without it. [

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] Why would we give Ameno nonsensical abilities such as removing the opponent's organs? Lmfao. I honestly feel like I'm being trolled here.

I'm expecting you to throw:

-Conjecture.
-Ad ignorantium.
-argumentum ad ignorantiam

In my face though, despite how unsupported and crazy such a claim is,

Do you agree that Hashirama's organ's make up 'Hashirama'? ​

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Do you agree that Hashirama's organ's make up 'Hashirama'? ​

Do they "make him up"? Not necessarily, depending on what exactly you mean. Are they components in his body that are absolutely needed for him to survive? Yes.

 

[solorflare99]

Then Hashirama is within Amenotejikara's radius.​

[

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@ Underlined. Amenotejikara is a Space-time Ninjutsu: It warps space and time. ​

I can see my vains too. Show me deeper. @ @ Underlined still not enough. Unless you can show him detaching things while teleporting then you will have a claim. He sure has had opportunities, but it has never happened.

 

[Waltz]

Do they "make him up"? Not necessarily, depending on what exactly you mean. Are they components in his body that are absolutely needed for him to survive? Yes.

Then Amenotejikara has already removed his heart.​

I can see my vains too. Show me deeper. @ @ Underlined still not enough. Unless you can show him detaching things while teleporting then you will have a claim. He sure has had opportunities, but it has never happened.

@ Bold: Cellular activity within them as well?

@ Red: Would you agree that anything capable of warping spacetime to the extent that it can warp and relocate solid objects within other regions of Space-time would be able to warp through a few arteries?

@Blue: "He has never been shown to do it, therefore he can't" - Ad ignorantiam.
​

 

[Varrah]

I can see my vains too. Show me deeper.

I think this post is alluding to the fact the insight of the Sharingan allowed Sasuke to see things within the blood coursing through his veins. It's be using used as evidence for Sasuke being able to see Hashirama's organs. ​

@Underlined still not enough.

...Eh​

Unless you can show him detaching things while teleporting then you will have a claim.

He has a claim: Amenotejikara can remove Hashirma's heart because it is a space-time ninjutsu.​

He sure has had opportunities, but it never happened.

True—could be attributed to the author—but true nevertheless. ​

 

[KCN]

Rinneshifting Hashirama's heart is right up there with Totsuka sealing water and rocks. Keep it up Waltz, you absolute legend of a man.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Then Amenotejikara has already removed his heart.​

]

Which is once again you twisting the definition of Sasuke's jutsu to do things it has never proven capable of doing. Ameno lets Sasuke teleport things in his radius. Hashirama is in his radius, but Hashirama's organs are in his body, thus off limits to Sasuke's jutsu. Being able to perceive them visually doesn't mean squat as it does not change their location.

-Sasuke can perceive organs with Sharingan. Yet he can't light someone's insides on fire with Amaterasu.
-Kakashi can perceive organs with Sharingan. Yet Kamui can't warp someone's organs out of their body.
-Minato has Space Time Ninjutsu, yet he can't warp anything out of anyone's body.
-Sasuke was trying his hardest to kill Naruto, yet when he used Ameno he resorted to attacking instead of this "warp heart out of chest BS".
-Nagato can't pull someone out of Susanoo using Bansho Tennin.

Though seeing the BS you've resorted to, I won't be surprised if you try and support these claims as well.

But keep going. It's amusing to see you grasp at whatever straws you can find to try and make your stance seem more valid than it really is. The sad part about it all is that you probably believe that what you are saying is legit.

 

[solorflare99]

Then Amenotejikara has already removed his heart.​

@ Bold: Cellular activity within them as well?

@ Red: Would you agree that anything capable of warping spacetime to the extent that it can warp and relocate solid objects within other regions of Space-time would be able to warp through a few arteries?

@Blue: "He has never been shown to do it, therefore he can't" - Ad ignorantiam.
​

@ @ bold of course no, but is my veins as deep in my body as my heart.

@ @Red: No because I am not the author of Naruto thus I'm not a credible source in the matter, but also because we have seen him at such point in time where it would be useful, yet hasn't done it once.

@ @Blue "He has never been shown thus, won't be allowed in the versus section of the Narutobase forums " Ad nofanficium

Really? Be better. There is a reason I put "Never lose all credibility." as a status. Technically this is all fanfic, but It is all about what is the most probabable outcome based off what the author has provided us.

Your fanfic: Teleports his Heart out
My fanfic: He regenerates a new heart.
Someone else: Sasuke uses Susanoo to use a huge fireball
another user: Hashirama use a huge Suiton to counter it and then he uses FTG to get close.
Someother person: FTG!? All of this is up for discussion but FTG?
Troll: Ad ignorantiam.

So do you see why you stick to Manga feats, and leave to fanfic feats out of the versus section.

 

[Waltz]

Rinneshifting Hashirama's heart is right up there with Totsuka sealing water and rocks. Keep it up Waltz, you absolute legend of a man.

Um..Because..Amenotejikara isn't a Space time Ninjutsu and Sasuke couldn't use it to remove Hashirama's heart?

Oh wait---Perhaps Hashirama's heart is composed of Princesssu Kant-Chan's pixie dust as well making it immune to the curvature of space and time. ..Lol.​