[Taijutsu] Tsunade vs. Gai

[KidGamer65]

If everything Ninjutsu related is restricted, then wouldn't that mean that Tsunade doesn't have CES? Cause if she doesn't then I really don't know how anyone in their right mind would argue for her.

-Taijutsu and overall CQC skill and ability easily goes to Gai.

You must be registered for see images

He can react so fast and seamlessly that he fights against armed foes w/o a weapon of his own. He outperforms KCM Naruto's CQC ability when matched up against Obito. [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] DB also states that he's a master of many types of weapons, but only uses weapons without blades because he prefers them.

You must be registered for see images

So we have Gai who shits in Taijutsu skill and shits in weapon skill here against Tsunade. Nothing but weapons and Taijutsu. I wonder who gets raped? She won't be shrugging off his attacks considering he can crush boulders in Base, and he has a Kunai here anyway. Her attacks aren't going to one shot him considering she has no strength feat that'd let her do that without CES. Especially against someones who's body has been hyped to be like steel. Very durable.

You must be registered for see images

So how the hell is she winning S1? She's not tanking multiple hits from the guy who can easily smash boulder who also has a Kunai at his disposal when she can't regenerate or heal. Eventually she wears down. How is she trumping him in CQC? Even if I appeased the Tsunade fans and said that their skill was dead even. Gai shits in speed. Shits in reflexes. Shits in reaction speed. Shits in Bukijutsu.

She can take all his attacks and heal in S3 since he's restricted to 3G while she is basically at full power, but S1 is a mid diff win for Gai at best.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

So Jiraiya stated Tsunade's combat skills were unmatched......

I was brought up that scan to show how flexible Tsunade is in Taijustu.

And Tsunade stated she can never die in battle... You want to take that statement for fact too and bet your life on it? Because manga feats and databook statements suggest otherwise.

Your underlined was suggesting otherwise, which was what my response was based from. Also, DB3 accounts for the beginning of Shipudden to right before the pain arc.

 

[Apêx1]

Lol We are just going by what the DB states but if we take into a account manga feats, Tsunade destroys in stamina.

And again her speed, stamina, all based on a rusty Tsunade's body and ability.

Obviously gates techniques put him far above her when it comes to taijustu but I never stated she matches his gates techniques so I dont even know why you are bringing that up.

What? We are using logic and manga facts here. Stamina is achieved through hard training and experience. Her Senju lineage obviously has an influence, but she was still a 4 with it being consistently the same. She'd need to train physically to bring her stamina any higher. But again, what proof do you have she went through lots of training, and what explanation do you have to justify that training being even close to as rigorous as Gai's? Nobody trains as hard as Gai. Period. The 8 gates are limiters on the chakra flow in the body. You can't open more then the 5th gate if you don't have the chakra to increase your chakra flow tremendously past the 4th Gate's chakra release. Gai however, can open all 8. So again, what proof or implications do you have suggesting Tsunade's stamina is even in the same ballpark as Gai's?

Again, stamina is barely affected by being rusty as chakra=physical energy+spiritual energy. She would have to train to put it over the previous 4 regardless of how rusty she was.

He doesn't need gates to beat her in Taijutsu smh. I never mentioned his Gates, I am suggesting Madara claimed his Taijutsu skills are at the limit. The 8 Gates only add strength/speed/etc. They don't give you superior Taijutsu technique, which was the thing that Madara commended.

 

[RedRobin]

And Tsunade stated she can never die in battle... You want to take that statement for fact too and bet your life on it? Because manga feats and databook statements suggest otherwise.

Your underlined was suggesting otherwise, which was what my response was based from. Also, DB3 accounts for the beginning of Shipudden to right before the pain arc.

You just brought up a hyped statement about Gai being a master in Taijustu. I also brought up a hyped statement.

Yeah and Tsunade still hadnt fought since part 1 Sannin fight. She showed no new feats until after DB3 was released.

 

[Rιver]

Tsunade has no CES but her natural strength is still strong.

 

[RedRobin]

What? We are using logic and manga facts here. Stamina is achieved through hard training and experience. Her Senju lineage obviously has an influence, but she was still a 4 with it being consistently the same. She'd need to train physically to bring her stamina any higher. But again, what proof do you have she went through lots of training, and what explanation do you have to justify that training being even close to as rigorous as Gai's? Nobody trains as hard as Gai. Period. The 8 gates are limiters on the chakra flow in the body. You can't open more then the 5th gate if you don't have the chakra to increase your chakra flow tremendously past the 4th Gate's chakra release. Gai however, can open all 8. So again, what proof or implications do you have suggesting Tsunade's stamina is even in the same ballpark as Gai's?

Again, stamina is barely affected by being rusty as chakra=physical energy+spiritual energy. She would have to train to put it over the previous 4 regardless of how rusty she was.

He doesn't need gates to beat her in Taijutsu smh. I never mentioned his Gates, I am suggesting Madara claimed his Taijutsu skills are at the limit. The 8 Gates only add strength/speed/etc. They don't give you superior Taijutsu technique, which was the thing that Madara commended.

After chasing after Kabuto and Orochimaru

You must be registered for see links

. That never happened at all against Madara while she was doing way more strenuous things. Obviously she trained her body from that rusty point she was at.

 

[Blackdeath667]

If everything Ninjutsu related is restricted, then wouldn't that mean that Tsunade doesn't have CES? Cause if she doesn't then I really don't know how anyone in their right mind would argue for her.

-Taijutsu and overall CQC skill and ability easily goes to Gai.

You must be registered for see images

He can react so fast and seamlessly that he fights against armed foes w/o a weapon of his own. He outperforms KCM Naruto's CQC ability when matched up against Obito. [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] DB also states that he's a master of many types of weapons, but only uses weapons without blades because he prefers them.

You must be registered for see images

So we have Gai who shits in Taijutsu skill and shits in weapon skill here against Tsunade. Nothing but weapons and Taijutsu. I wonder who gets raped? She won't be shrugging off his attacks considering he can crush boulders in Base, and he has a Kunai here anyway. Her attacks aren't going to one shot him considering she has no strength feat that'd let her do that without CES. Especially against someones who's body has been hyped to be like steel. Very durable.

You must be registered for see images

So how the hell is she winning S1? She's not tanking multiple hits from the guy who can easily smash boulder who also has a Kunai at his disposal when she can't regenerate or heal. Eventually she wears down. How is she trumping him in CQC? Even if I appeased the Tsunade fans and said that their skill was dead even. Gai shits in speed. Shits in reflexes. Shits in reaction speed. Shits in Bukijutsu.

She can take all his attacks and heal in S3 since he's restricted to 3G while she is basically at full power, but S1 is a mid diff win for Gai at best.

always leave it it too you to show true common sense and back it up

 

[KidGamer65]

Tsunade has no CES but her natural strength is still strong.

The best feat she has w/o CES is crushing a small rock in her palm. And even then we don't know if she used CES. Since nothing was stopping her, I'm gonna go ahead and say that she was. All her major strength feats in Part 1 have been attributed to CES by the DB.

-One finger trench feat.
-Lifting Bunta's Tanto.

Whatever feat she has w/o CES, I'd feel safe betting that it does not surpass what Gai is capable of.

By feats and hype, Gai's strength>>Tsunade's natural strength. She has no feats using her natural strength alone that'd surpass boulder busting. It's not really surprising that a man with a body like steel would be physically superior to some 50 yr old lady.

 

[Worm]

Pretty obvious he outclasses her here.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

You just brought up a hyped statement about Gai being a master in Taijustu. I also brought up a hyped statement.

Yeah and Tsunade still hadnt fought since part 1 Sannin fight. She showed no new feats until after DB3 was released.

Difference being Gai actually has manga feats that support the notion. You have any that support her being the best CQC fighter in the manga? Any to support the notion that she's unbeatable? Didn't really think so.

Doesn't change the fact that those stats account for her skills at that current time (Chapters 245-400ish), despite of any shown feats.

 

[Mihael Keehl]

Foot speed.

Tsunade's strike speed i superior to Gai's in base. her reactions are also better. In close range legit close range only an idiot would assume shes not hitting Gai even once.

Now provide Gai's "god level" footspeed that Tsunade can't take on in CQC. If this was long range the speed wank would look credible. But wanking on a dude's base speed in CQC without any proof.. lol yea. not gonna help.

The databook stats all account for base and no additional power-ups (e.g. sharingann, sage mode, gates and etc.).
I don't see the argument, Gai is literally rated a full 1.5+ tier above, the difference in speed is laughable.
And her entire fighting style is predicated on her being slow (e.g. Byakgou) so she can tank everything and move on.
If you factor in any of the Gates, for someone like Tsunade, Gai becomes untouchable.

 

[RedRobin]

If everything Ninjutsu related is restricted, then wouldn't that mean that Tsunade doesn't have CES? Cause if she doesn't then I really don't know how anyone in their right mind would argue for her.

-Taijutsu and overall CQC skill and ability easily goes to Gai.

You must be registered for see images

He can react so fast and seamlessly that he fights against armed foes w/o a weapon of his own. He outperforms KCM Naruto's CQC ability when matched up against Obito. [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] DB also states that he's a master of many types of weapons, but only uses weapons without blades because he prefers them.

You must be registered for see images

So we have Gai who shits in Taijutsu skill and shits in weapon skill here against Tsunade. Nothing but weapons and Taijutsu. I wonder who gets raped? She won't be shrugging off his attacks considering he can crush boulders in Base, and he has a Kunai here anyway. Her attacks aren't going to one shot him considering she has no strength feat that'd let her do that without CES. Especially against someones who's body has been hyped to be like steel. Very durable.

You must be registered for see images

So how the hell is she winning S1? She's not tanking multiple hits from the guy who can easily smash boulder who also has a Kunai at his disposal when she can't regenerate or heal. Eventually she wears down. How is she trumping him in CQC? Even if I appeased the Tsunade fans and said that their skill was dead even. Gai shits in speed. Shits in reflexes. Shits in reaction speed. Shits in Bukijutsu.

She can take all his attacks and heal in S3 since he's restricted to 3G while she is basically at full power, but S1 is a mid diff win for Gai at best.

First off you and I both agreed she had raw strength when I admitted she used CES because you brought the DB page where it states she does. But even then she was still shown to do this[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] which caused this

You must be registered for see links

right before she ran out of chakra[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Now

You must be registered for see links

also

You must be registered for see links

this

You must be registered for see links

when he faced Orochimaru.

That shows she has raw strength.

 

[Apêx1]

After chasing after Kabuto and Orochimaru

You must be registered for see links

. That never happened at all against Madara while she was doing way more strenuous things. Obviously she trained her body from that rusty point she was at.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the focal point of my post though, which you repeatedly seem to ignore. Spiritual+physical energy=stamina=chakra. Gai trains those continuously so even if she trained after that, she couldn't have possibly trained it up to the point where she surpassed Gai. She would never even approach him stamina-wise as he trains much harder then she'd ever hope to train. So once again, your claim that her stamina>his is false. Your claim that anything she has>him bar strength, is false. So once again, I ask you, how does Tsunade beat him? You're debating passively because you have absolutely no arguments.

 

[RedRobin]

Difference being Gai actually has manga feats that support the notion. You have any that support her being the best CQC fighter in the manga? Any to support the notion that she's unbeatable? Didn't really think so.

Doesn't change the fact that those stats account for her skills at that current time (Chapters 245-400ish), despite of any shown feats.

Where the **** did I say Tsunade is better than Gai? Someone PLEASE BRING ME THE QUOTE. All I am arguing for is her not getting destroyed in CQC which she wont.

Too bad it states based on past performance which would only contribute to her Part 1 fight.

 

[KingHashirama]

Both Oro and Jiraiya were in a worse shape than Tsunade. Jiraiya could barely stand, and had problem with molding chakra. Other guy had his soul sucked out of his hands. He was shaking during the whole fight. FACTS. All of these are in the manga.

If those are in the manga.. then this is the manga as well.

Tsunade, sword stab right through middle of chest, starts shaking (you can actually see the shaking, not Orochimaru's little shaking.)

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Deep cut here, that nearly knocked her out of it:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Another deep wound, she can barely move here :

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

She is shaking still, and insta punches Orochimaru, who showed nothing about speed lag or anything:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

See now the thing in all of these scans is that, your so called "orochimaru was shaking, hardly move"..yet in all of those he showed no trouble moving.. in fact he was attacking fast.

In that entire encounter.. where she punches Orochimaru who is on the other side of Naruto.. gets ****ed up. This wasn't done by a healthy Tsunade.. this was done by a Tsunade who had 3 serious wounds and who also had just gotten over her shaking.

So idk where you get your whole crap about "Jiraiya was in a worst state".. when Jiraiya in the entire fight had no serious wounds on him.

She he was cut. Different than broken bones that she'll get from Gai. That would make her immobile.

He can't sorry, unless he goes 5th gate+

lmao this guy says I have no argument, yet he brings nothing to the discussion. Prove that Tsunade "Dominates" Gai in base. Prove Tsunade can overcome Gai's far superior striking speed and far greater reaction time, and then I'm gonna take you seriously.

@Bold, yet you have no feats of those.


You can do the following:

- Pull in the "fast as flash reflexes" thing for Gai... Though you'll be comparing this to what?

- You can then bring up the overused comparison of Kcm Naruto and Gai against Obito.. yet KCM Naruto never had any legit CQC feats, despite dodging Ay's blitz. And he never mastered that speed, and was using normal speed most of the fight.

Nowhere will you find a legit scan to make him rival Tsunade..

 

[KidGamer65]

First off you and I both agreed she had raw strength when I admitted she used CES because you brought the DB page where it states she does. But even then she was still shown to do this[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] which caused this

You must be registered for see links

right before she ran out of chakra[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Now

You must be registered for see links

also

You must be registered for see links

this

You must be registered for see links

when he faced Orochimaru.

That shows she has raw strength.

I agreed that she had raw strength, but on par with Gai? No. Or more relevant, enough to obliterate him with a single hit like she normally would if her punch landed? Definitely not. KN3's attack was much stronger and caused much more damage.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Then there's the the fact that the distance KN3 threw Oro is far greater to what Tsunade managed to do.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

KN3 is far stronger than her.

 

[Mihael Keehl]

First off you and I both agreed she had raw strength when I admitted she used CES because you brought the DB page where it states she does. But even then she was still shown to do this[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

] which caused this

You must be registered for see links

right before she ran out of chakra[

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Now

You must be registered for see links

also

You must be registered for see links

this

You must be registered for see links

when he faced Orochimaru.

That shows she has raw strength.

It doesn't substantiate your claim as well as you think, Orochimaru was exhausted and armless (i.e. he wasn't moving as fast he could have).

 

[Apêx1]

Obviously gates techniques put him far above her when it comes to taijustu but I never stated she matches his gates techniques so I dont even know why you are bringing that up.

You clearly imply that Tsunade is comparable to Gai in Taijutsu while he's in base. No need to play it passively and say you were only arguing for Tsunade not getting stomped.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Where the **** did I say Tsunade is better than Gai? Someone PLEASE BRING ME THE QUOTE. All I am arguing for is her not getting destroyed in CQC which she wont.

Too bad it states based on past performance which would only contribute to her Part 1 fight.

And even at that, you failed at accomplishing. I see it being no more then a medium-difficulty fight, based on the first scenario's stipulations.

Show me what you're referring to.

 

[RedRobin]

I agreed that she had raw strength, but on par with Gai? No. Or more relevant, enough to obliterate him with a single hit like she normally would if her punch landed? Definitely not. KN3's attack was much stronger and caused much more damage.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Then there's the the fact that the distance KN3 threw Oro is far greater to what Tsunade managed to do.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

KN3 is far stronger than her.

Tsunade pulled Orochimaru to her and then hit him while Naruto just him back.

And then when your scale up her part 1 attack because she was rusty what do you get?

Fair enough. Doesn't change the focal point of my post though, which you repeatedly seem to ignore. Spiritual+physical energy=stamina=chakra. Gai trains those continuously so even if she trained after that, she couldn't have possibly trained it up to the point where she surpassed Gai. She would never even approach him stamina-wise as he trains much harder then she'd ever hope to train. So once again, your claim that her stamina>his is false. Your claim that anything she has>him bar strength, is false. So once again, I ask you, how does Tsunade beat him? You're debating passively because you have absolutely no arguments.

Never stated she was better than Gai. Never once stated that.

She was cut in half and survived and was able to summon a large portion of Katsuyu. She was then able to live through the process of healing the Kages which Katsuyu used her chakra for, let me remind you that she was still cut in half during this time.

Her chakra was used to heal the shinobi village. Then after giving all her chakra away she dashed to the epicenter of where CST hit.

And even at that, you failed at accomplishing. I see it being no more then a medium-difficulty fight, based on the first scenario's stipulations.

Show me what you're referring to.

You must be registered for see images