DRSM Madara vs The Last BSM Naruto

[Beans2]

His senjutsu is mastered to the highest degree. That's rikudo senjutsu.

Stop it. Right now.

 

[ARGUS]

Limbo and Gedo Mazo are restricted.

Then it all depends on the boost that Madara is granted here because it all comes down to the power of his PS
Logically he should have the rikudo chakra flowing through him since that's what enabled to him to activate his Rinnegan, in which case he is utilizing all his rikudo chakra whilst naruto is still in BSM that has some small rikudo boost
If this is the case then madaras PS would end up overwhelming naruto

However what we saw in the manga is that madaras rikudo boost was almost negligible in his susanoo
If that's the case then naruto stomps, horribly

 

[Beans2]

However what we saw in the manga is that madaras rikudo boost was almost negligible in his susanoo
If that's the case then naruto stomps, horribly

When did Madara use Susanoo after getting a Rikudou boost?

 

[Lord Tywin]

Stop it. Right now.

:lol why?

 

[Zee U]

Madara's Rikudou boost is negligible, almost non existant. Meanwhile Naruto has half of Hagoromo's chakra flowing natively through his body, meaning his BM would be on a way, way higher level than his past one even without activating Rikudou Senjutsu. This battle will come down to BSM vs PS, and Naruto trumps decisively.

 

[Omar19992010]

When did Madara use Susanoo after getting a Rikudou boost?

His Susano'o got destroyed by all the Tailed Beasts.

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[Amaterasu]

Lmaooo Naruto wins both, the second one is a neg-low diff

 

[Beans2]

His Susano'o got destroyed by all the Tailed Beasts.

That was blind Madara without any Rinnegan. If you count Hashirama's SM as a sort of Rikudou boost, that's nowhere near the kind of boost he'd get from being the original wielder of both Rinnegans.

 

[Rιver]

Madara never used Susanoo after Rikudo boost but doesn't say he can't. Sasuke got huge upgrade just because of Rinnegan, and so should Madara. Add the fact that Madara already had bigger reserves than Madara he should get even bigger boost. And with that boost alone Sasuke was going toe to toe with RSM avatar that easily is stronger than the Lasts BSM avatar.

 

[KidGamer65]

^ Sasuke got a huge upgrade because his Rinnegan came packaged with half of Hagoromo's chakra. Madara gets no such perk. The only boost he gets is from the Rikudo Chakra he got when he stole Hashirama's DNA, and the chakra he'd get from being the original wielder of the Rinnegan.

OT: DA termed Madara's Rikudo charka perfectly. "K-Mart quality" Lmao. Makes sense for the quality of his chakra to be far weaker than Sasuke's considering Sasuke got his straight from the source. Madara's is composed of his Indra chakra and a piece of Hashirama's Ashura chakra. So yes, there should be a boost since the difference between EMS Madara and Rinnegan Madara's chakra should be noticable, but is it anything compared to what having half of Hagoromo's power does for Naruto? I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

-Chidori=Rasengan.
-Chidori wrecked a Meteor the size of Hokage Mountain. That puts it at Mountain Level at the very lowest. Probably low-mid since he vaporized it.
-Rasengan should do the same.
-Oodama Rasengan>Rasengan.
-Chou Oodama Rasengan>>>Rasengan.
-FRS>>>>Rasengan.

FRS would be over 10x the power of that Chidori, and that Chidori was already wrecking Meteors. Imagine those same attacks enhanced by Sage Mode. Gudo Dama tanked Naruto's BSM BD and Sasuke's Senjutsu Susanoo Arrow with only a hole going across it. In The Last Naruto hit the Gudo Dama with only a few Chou Oodama Rasengan in his Rasengan barrage, yet he completely obliterated the Gudo Dama. So unless Toneri's GD are far weaker than Obito's, The Last BSM Naruto's Chou Oodama Rasengan Barrage>>>Naruto's BSM War Bijuu Dama, considering only a few attacks in that barrage actually landed the mark.

So that means that Naruto would be capable of doing some damage to Madara's regular PS w/ attacks like FRS and Chou FRS let alone Bijuu Dama. Not sure how much stronger Madara's PS would be, but is it so much stronger that we'd be able to say that he'll take Naruto's regular Continuous BD with minor damage let alone his Flash BD? Doubt it.

The Last Naruto wins with ease.

 

[Rιver]

^ Sasuke got a huge upgrade because his Rinnegan came packaged with half of Hagoromo's chakra. Madara gets no such perk. The only boost he gets is from the Rikudo Chakra he got when he stole Hashirama's DNA, and the chakra he'd get from being the original wielder of the Rinnegan.

Maybe, but:

1. Madara already had much bigger reserves compared to Sasuke.

2. Sasuke didn't get half of his chakra nor Naruto. They got a portion, explaining how Hagoromo was still a piece of flying chakra.

3. Kakashi got a comparable boost to Sasuke with just small portion, and he had one of the worst reserves in the entire manga.

4. Hagoromo was also not at his best, Minato used the same tactic and was on verge of death. That was just a small piece as well.

OT: DA termed Madara's Rikudo charka perfectly. "K-Mart quality" Lmao. Makes sense for the quality of his chakra to be far weaker than Sasuke's considering Sasuke got his straight from the source. Madara's is composed of his Indra chakra and a piece of Hashirama's Ashura chakra. So yes, there should be a boost since the difference between EMS Madara and Rinnegan Madara's chakra should be noticable, but is it anything compared to what having half of Hagoromo's power does for Naruto? I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

Addressed.

-Chidori=Rasengan.
-Chidori wrecked a Meteor the size of Hokage Mountain. That puts it at Mountain Level at the very lowest. Probably low-mid since he vaporized it.
-Rasengan should do the same.
-Oodama Rasengan>Rasengan.
-Chou Oodama Rasengan>>>Rasengan.
-FRS>>>>Rasengan.

FRS would be over 10x the power of that Chidori, and that Chidori was already wrecking Meteors. Imagine those same attacks enhanced by Sage Mode. Gudo Dama tanked Naruto's BSM BD and Sasuke's Senjutsu Susanoo Arrow with only a hole going across it. In The Last Naruto hit the Gudo Dama with only a few Chou Oodama Rasengan in his Rasengan barrage, yet he completely obliterated the Gudo Dama. So unless Toneri's GD are far weaker than Obito's, The Last BSM Naruto's Chou Oodama Rasengan Barrage>>>Naruto's BSM War Bijuu Dama, considering only a few attacks in that barrage actually landed the mark.

Except that these are regular jutsus. Sure, he might be able to pull of a bigger Rasengan. But that's based on his reserves and not Kuramas. If I recall correctly, Kurama has never managed to increase his chakra levels. It's always the same. The only difference Naruto could make is prolong the time limit and control the chakra better. And even if this is full Kurama, 9 Bijuus > Kurama

So that means that Naruto would be capable of doing some damage to Madara's regular PS w/ attacks like FRS and Chou FRS let alone Bijuu Dama. Not sure how much stronger Madara's PS would be, but is it so much stronger that we'd be able to say that he'll take Naruto's regular Continuous BD with minor damage let alone his Flash BD? Doubt it.

The Last Naruto wins with ease.

That's if his TBB is so much stronger.

 

[Apêx1]

-Chidori=Rasengan.
-Chidori wrecked a Meteor the size of Hokage Mountain. That puts it at Mountain Level at the very lowest. Probably low-mid since he vaporized it.
-Rasengan should do the same.

Based on what are their jutsu equal at that point?

 

[Transcendence]

Based on what are their jutsu equal at that point?

I'm pretty sure he means based on the progression in which Naruto and Sasuke showed up until the Last.

- Sasuke's Chidori busting that meteor.
- Naruto can throw FRS in base mode amongst other things, showing his own improvement.

The techniques have consistently been shown to be equal in this manga, so by logic of progression, they're still equal and you can scale the progression that Sasuke's chidori showed, on to Naruto's Rasengan and it's variants.

 

[KidGamer65]

Maybe, but:

1. Madara already had much bigger reserves compared to Sasuke.

Doesn't matter. His chakra is irrelevant as we are talking about what he got.

2. Sasuke didn't get half of his chakra nor Naruto. They got a portion, explaining how Hagoromo was still a piece of flying chakra.

Wrong.

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If he only gave a portion away he wouldn't be saying that he has no chakra left. He gave away most of his chakra. All he has left is what he's using to maintain his physical form.

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"I can feel the other half of his power". Hagoromo's. In Sasuke.

3. Kakashi got a comparable boost to Sasuke with just small portion, and he had one of the worst reserves in the entire manga.

Except he didn't. Nothing supports that he did. Not to mention once again, the reserves of the person is almost irrelevant to their power boost. Not to mention you are forgetting that Obito gave him all his chakra. So Kakashi had Obito's chakra amount, which is massive.

4. Hagoromo was also not at his best, Minato used the same tactic and was on verge of death. That was just a small piece as well.

Minato and Hagoromo didn't do the same thing. Not even close. Minato sealed a piece of his chakra inside of Naruto's seal. Hagoromo came back from the dead and transferred all of his chakra to Naruto and Sasuke so that they could beat Madara.

Except that these are regular jutsus. Sure, he might be able to pull of a bigger Rasengan. But that's based on his reserves and not Kuramas. If I recall correctly, Kurama has never managed to increase his chakra levels. It's always the same. The only difference Naruto could make is prolong the time limit and control the chakra better. And even if this is full Kurama, 9 Bijuus > Kurama

Why are you talking about chakra reserves and bigger Rasengan? Naruto's jutsu aren't any larger than they were in the War Arc. They are stronger, and that's because his chakra is much stronger than it was before. Whether or not Kurama increases his reserves doesn't matter. The strength of BSM Naruto's chakra in The Last>>>>War Arc Naruto's because one has Hagoromo's chakra and 2 years of training while the other has neither. We've already seen that RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama>>>>War naruto's BD, and that's for the same exact reason.

Not to mention BM isn't just Kurama's chakra. It's Naruto's chakra too.

That's if his TBB is so much stronger.

It will be.

Based on what are their jutsu equal at that point?

Based on the fact that their jutsu have always been equal, but even if you don't want to agree that they are equal, the overall point of the scaling still stands since a few Chou Oodama Rasengan obliterated something that Juubito fight Naruto's Senjutsu Bijuu Dama failed to destroy.

 

[Apêx1]

I'm pretty sure he means based on the progression in which Naruto and Sasuke showed up until the Last.

- Sasuke's Chidori busting that meteor.
- Naruto can throw FRS in base mode amongst other things, showing his own improvement.

The techniques have consistently been shown to be equal in this manga, so by logic of progression, they're still equal and you can scale the progression that Sasuke's chidori showed, on to Naruto's Rasengan and it's variants.

By logic of progression? In the upcoming movie Boruto outright states Sasuke is superior to Naruto. The logic of progression stopped right after VOTE2 in which Sasuke needed new feats to compare to RSM Naruto.

 

[KidGamer65]

By logic of progression? In the upcoming movie Boruto outright states Sasuke is superior to Naruto. The logic of progression stopped right after VOTE2 in which Sasuke needed new feats to compare to RSM Naruto.

Bold is a mistranslation. Even if it wasn't, that's Gaiden Naruto and Gaiden Sasuke. That's 10 years after The Last and that's when Naruto started slacking. He was still in top notch form, the best form he's ever been in during the Last. So your point doesn't stand either way. The logic of the progression of their Chidori and Rasengan still stands since even at the same VoTE you are using to try and debunk this point, their attacks were still equal. The rest of their techs are irrelevant.

 

[Praydara]

Naruto takes it.

 

[Apêx1]

Bold is a mistranslation. Even if it wasn't, that's Gaiden Naruto and Gaiden Sasuke. That's 10 years after The Last and that's when Naruto started slacking. He was still in top notch form, the best form he's ever been in during the Last. So your point doesn't stand either way. The logic of the progression of their Chidori and Rasengan still stands since even at the same VoTE you are using to try and debunk this point, their attacks were still equal. The rest of their techs are irrelevant.

Nope, it's on every translation of the movie that I have seen. And bold is a misunderstanding on your part. I said after VOTE2. Meaning Naruto had received the other half of Kurama and all his jutsu in that form would receive a massive upgrade. PS Chidori<the upgraded TBB. They would no longer clash as equals, hence Sasuke needed upgrades.

 

[Apêx1]

Bold is a mistranslation. Even if it wasn't, that's Gaiden Naruto and Gaiden Sasuke. That's 10 years after The Last and that's when Naruto started slacking. He was still in top notch form, the best form he's ever been in during the Last. So your point doesn't stand either way. The logic of the progression of their Chidori and Rasengan still stands since even at the same VoTE you are using to try and debunk this point, their attacks were still equal. The rest of their techs are irrelevant.

Nope, it's on every translation of the movie that I have seen. And bold is a misunderstanding on your part. I said after VOTE2. Meaning Naruto had received the other half of Kurama and all his jutsu in that form would receive a massive upgrade. PS Chidori<the upgraded TBB. They would no longer clash as equals, hence Sasuke needed upgrades.

 

[Praydara]

Why the f-uck are people even taking Boruto's word as the truth? He's like, a twelve year old kid who hates his dad. Of course he'll say his sensei is stronger, if he even did.