DRSM Madara vs The Last BSM Naruto

[KidGamer65]

Nope, it's on every translation of the movie that I have seen.

I'll get you evidence later on.

And bold is a misunderstanding on your part. I said after VOTE2. Meaning Naruto had received the other half of Kurama and all his jutsu in that form would receive a massive upgrade. PS Chidori<the upgraded TBB. They would no longer clash as equals, hence Sasuke needed upgrades.

How is this relevant to a regular Chidori vs. Rasengan clash between Base Naruto and Base Sasuke? Naruto getting the other half of Kurama wouldn't augment his abilities in Base, only when he uses Kurama's chakra.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

^ Sasuke got a huge upgrade because his Rinnegan came packaged with half of Hagoromo's chakra. Madara gets no such perk. The only boost he gets is from the Rikudo Chakra he got when he stole Hashirama's DNA, and the chakra he'd get from being the original wielder of the Rinnegan.

OT: DA termed Madara's Rikudo charka perfectly. "K-Mart quality" Lmao. Makes sense for the quality of his chakra to be far weaker than Sasuke's considering Sasuke got his straight from the source. Madara's is composed of his Indra chakra and a piece of Hashirama's Ashura chakra. So yes, there should be a boost since the difference between EMS Madara and Rinnegan Madara's chakra should be noticable, but is it anything compared to what having half of Hagoromo's power does for Naruto? I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

-Chidori=Rasengan.
-Chidori wrecked a Meteor the size of Hokage Mountain. That puts it at Mountain Level at the very lowest. Probably low-mid since he vaporized it.
-Rasengan should do the same.
-Oodama Rasengan>Rasengan.
-Chou Oodama Rasengan>>>Rasengan.
-FRS>>>>Rasengan.

FRS would be over 10x the power of that Chidori, and that Chidori was already wrecking Meteors. Imagine those same attacks enhanced by Sage Mode. Gudo Dama tanked Naruto's BSM BD and Sasuke's Senjutsu Susanoo Arrow with only a hole going across it. In The Last Naruto hit the Gudo Dama with only a few Chou Oodama Rasengan in his Rasengan barrage, yet he completely obliterated the Gudo Dama. So unless Toneri's GD are far weaker than Obito's, The Last BSM Naruto's Chou Oodama Rasengan Barrage>>>Naruto's BSM War Bijuu Dama, considering only a few attacks in that barrage actually landed the mark.

So that means that Naruto would be capable of doing some damage to Madara's regular PS w/ attacks like FRS and Chou FRS let alone Bijuu Dama. Not sure how much stronger Madara's PS would be, but is it so much stronger that we'd be able to say that he'll take Naruto's regular Continuous BD with minor damage let alone his Flash BD? Doubt it.

The Last Naruto wins with ease.

Nice post overall, but there's not conclusive proof that the Last Naruto's ransengan=chidori. I think it's considered a given that Sasuke increased his chakra. While Naruto clearly gets a boost from full Kurama, we can't conclusively say that his chakra intensity (disregarding Ashura Avatar), is equal to Sasuke's, even if it's plausible.

 

[KidGamer65]

Nice post overall, but there's not conclusive proof that the Last Naruto's ransengan=chidori. I think it's considered a given that Sasuke increased his chakra. While Naruto clearly gets a boost from full Kurama, we can't conclusively say that his chakra intensity (disregarding Ashura Avatar), is equal to Sasuke's, even if it's plausible.

I know there's no conclusive proof. It's just highly likely.

 

[Apêx1]

I'll get you evidence later on.

ok

How is this relevant to a regular Chidori vs. Rasengan clash between Base Naruto and Base Sasuke? Naruto getting the other half of Kurama wouldn't augment his abilities in Base, only when he uses Kurama's chakra.

Since when was the Chidori vs Rasengan clash the only clash that mattered? They are portrayed as equals. All their clashes should result in an equal stand off, ie PS Chidori vs Avatar TBB, Asura RS vs Indra's Arrow, Rasengan vs Chidori. Now only one of the three is equal, the other two are not. It's either all of them are equal or the logic of progression is a moot point as it doesn't apply to all circumstances anymore. That's the case here, as the 'equals' are not even close to equals once their colossal constructs are put up. So it's barely implicative.

 

[KidGamer65]

ok

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Read Indra's VM.

Since when was the Chidori vs Rasengan clash the only clash that mattered? They are portrayed as equals. All their clashes should result in an equal stand off, ie PS Chidori vs Avatar TBB, Asura RS vs Indra's Arrow, Rasengan vs Chidori. Now only one of the three is equal, the other two are not. It's either all of them are equal or the logic of progression is a moot point as it doesn't apply to all circumstances anymore. That's the case here, as the 'equals' are not even close to equals once their colossal constructs are put up. So it's barely implicative.

Wrong. You are ignoring the reason why Naruto edges out Sasuke in those clashes. The logic stood before, and the only reason Naruto and Sasuke can't clash as equals in their strongest forms is because Kurama is involved. Kurama is not involved when they are in Base, so why would Kurama giving Naruto the edge matter?

 

[Apêx1]

You must be registered for see links

Read Indra's VM.

You have a point then.

Wrong. You are ignoring the reason why Naruto edges out Sasuke in those clashes. The logic stood before, and the only reason Naruto and Sasuke can't clash as equals in their strongest forms is because Kurama is involved. Kurama is not involved when they are in Base, so why would Kurama giving Naruto the edge matter?

Again, you are only taking into account their clashing in base. If it was that simple Naruto would've died long ago. Kurama is just as relevant as Naruto himself in the fight, and their clash in their colossal construct is just as relevant as their clash in base. Only because Naruto can't clash with Sasuke in base via Rasengan vs Chidori doesn't mean he can't use Chou Odama Rasengan to clash. On the other hand, the clash in their colossal construct would be incredibly one sided as Naruto would be close to twice/1.5 times as strong as he was in VOTE2, meaning Sasuke's enhanced base Chidori would translate to an enhanced PS Chidori which would mean to an equal clash in their colossal constructs with the new TBB vs the stronger Chidori.

 

[KidGamer65]

You have a point then.




Again, you are only taking into account their clashing in base. If it was that simple Naruto would've died long ago. Kurama is just as relevant as Naruto himself in the fight, and their clash in their colossal construct is just as relevant as their clash in base. Only because Naruto can't clash with Sasuke in base via Rasengan vs Chidori doesn't mean he can't use Chou Odama Rasengan to clash. On the other hand, the clash in their colossal construct would be incredibly one sided as Naruto would be close to twice/1.5 times as strong as he was in VOTE2, meaning Sasuke's enhanced base Chidori would translate to an enhanced PS Chidori which would mean to an equal clash in their colossal constructs with the new TBB vs the stronger Chidori.

Because that is the only thing relevant. Kurama has nothing to do with what Naruto does in Base, without his chakra. Nothing at all. And explain the underlined. Getting the other half of Kurama is not going to change the result between Base Naruto and Sasuke's Chidori v Rasengan clash. How is the bold even relevant?

Why would Sasuke's enhanced PS Chidori match Naruto's enhanced Bijuu Dama when Naruto and Sasuke have the same progression but Naruto has the other half of Kurama under his belt? Even then, getting the other half of Kurama only means that Naruto can make larger BD. Doesn't change the fact that his standard will remain the same size, thus equal with Sasuke's PS Chidori. All the other half means is that his max BD is 2x larger than what it would be.

 

[Kenjamin Bing]

Since Naruto's BSM has no feat or logical reasoning to be half of Madara's power and Tengai Shinsei is tiers above RSM as feats show, Edo Madara takes this comfortably let alone Dual Rinnegan SM Madara who not even Hagoromo can beat.

Edo Madara low diff.

 

[Unorthodox]

Last Naruto > VOTE2 Naruto > JJ Madara 3 eyes > Base Rikudou Naruto > 1 rinnegan Madara > Double rinnegan Madara no Juubi

This is not comparable at all

 

[Maxum555]

naruto takes this mid-difficulty.

 

[Apêx1]

Because that is the only thing relevant. Kurama has nothing to do with what Naruto does in Base, without his chakra. Nothing at all. And explain the underlined. Getting the other half of Kurama is not going to change the result between Base Naruto and Sasuke's Chidori v Rasengan clash. How is the bold even relevant?

Why would Sasuke's enhanced PS Chidori match Naruto's enhanced Bijuu Dama when Naruto and Sasuke have the same progression but Naruto has the other half of Kurama under his belt? Even then, getting the other half of Kurama only means that Naruto can make larger BD. Doesn't change the fact that his standard will remain the same size, thus equal with Sasuke's PS Chidori. All the other half means is that his max BD is 2x larger than what it would be.

So being equals means the only thing that matters is their clash in base? That's news to me. Their base rasengan vs chidori clash is clearly not the only relevant thing, and never will be. They are supposed to clash as equals in all their jutsu vs jutsu clashes, not only one of them. Bold is suggesting he would have other options to clash with Sasuke's Chidori and still keeping the 'equals' thing going.

Meaning Sasuke's progressed faster then Naruto, but Naruto got a power-up from another source to match with Sasuke. Yin chakra is also more potent then Yang chakra. And no, Kurama's 100% standard BD is larger then 50% Kurama's standard BD. So Naruto's new standard BD will be that of 100% Kurama's, not that of his 50% Kurama. That would make no sense. Not to mention PS Chidori would need to clash with something more powerful then what is clashed with at VOTE2 as the Chidori strength would scale onto PS as well.

 

[KidGamer65]

So being equals means the only thing that matters is their clash in base? That's news to me. Their base rasengan vs chidori clash is clearly not the only relevant thing, and never will be. They are supposed to clash as equals in all their jutsu vs jutsu clashes, not only one of them. Bold is suggesting he would have other options to clash with Sasuke's Chidori and still keeping the 'equals' thing going.

Except I'm not arguing Naruto or Sasuke being equals all around. I'm arguing that their base clash is what is equal. So why in the world have you mentioned this irrelevant stuff? You keep telling me that since they can't clash equally with their Avatars, they can't clash equally in Base, even though there is an explicit reason they can't do so in their Avatars and it literally has nothing to do wit their Base.

Meaning Sasuke's progressed faster then Naruto, but Naruto got a power-up from another source to match with Sasuke. Yin chakra is also more potent then Yang chakra. And no, Kurama's 100% standard BD is larger then 50% Kurama's standard BD. So Naruto's new standard BD will be that of 100% Kurama's, not that of his 50% Kurama. That would make no sense. Not to mention PS Chidori would need to clash with something more powerful then what is clashed with at VOTE2 as the Chidori strength would scale onto PS as well.

Smh, and why would he? Where is that even coming from?

Part 1=Rasengan vs. Chidori is equal.
Part 2 at the bridge=Equal.
VoTE 2=Equal, again.

Why would the BD vs. Chidori clash yield any different results than it did at VoTe 2?

I suggest you learn why exactly 100% Kurama's standard BD is far stronger. It's because 100% Kurama is far larger than 50% Kurama. Naruto's Avatar already reaches a size larger than Full Kurama anyway. Getting the other half of his chakra is not going to increase the size of his Avatar like it did at VoTe. If Half Kurama were the same size, their standard BD would be the same size. Double chakra means that Full Kurama can make bigger maximum Bijuu Dama. That's all.

 

[Apêx1]

Except I'm not arguing Naruto or Sasuke being equals all around. I'm arguing that their base clash is what is equal. So why in the world have you mentioned this irrelevant stuff? You keep telling me that since they can't clash equally with their Avatars, they can't clash equally in Base, even though there is an explicit reason they can't do so in their Avatars and it literally has nothing to do wit their Base.

But the logic of progression applies to Naruto and Sasuke entirely, not only their base clashes. They were close/equal in part 1, part 2 and VoTE 2. The logic of progression applies first and foremost to them before it applies to their base rasengan vs base chidori clash.

Smh, and why would he? Where is that even coming from?

Part 1=Rasengan vs. Chidori is equal.
Part 2 at the bridge=Equal.
VoTE 2=Equal, again.

Why would the BD vs. Chidori clash yield any different results than it did at VoTe 2?

Because Base Chidori became far stronger so the PS amplification would scale it exponentially.

I suggest you learn why exactly 100% Kurama's standard BD is far stronger. It's because 100% Kurama is far larger than 50% Kurama. Naruto's Avatar already reaches a size larger than Full Kurama anyway. Getting the other half of his chakra is not going to increase the size of his Avatar like it did at VoTe. If Half Kurama were the same size, their standard BD would be the same size. Double chakra means that Full Kurama can make bigger maximum Bijuu Dama. That's all.

How would it not increase the size of Kurama like it did at VOTE? Aren't you the one who always argues 100% Kurama being 5x as large as 50% Kurama? S if anything, the size boost is identical. And he'd be able to mould twice as fast with twice the amount of chakra. Hence why Kurama could mould a massive TBB just as fast as 5 Bijuu could make the same sized TBB together. 100% Kurama would thus have a faster moulding speed and his standard TBB would thus be greater than 50% Kurama's. So bigger standard and bigger maximum BD.

 

[KidGamer65]

But the logic of progression applies to Naruto and Sasuke entirely, not only their base clashes. They were close/equal in part 1, part 2 and VoTE 2. The logic of progression applies first and foremost to them before it applies to their base rasengan vs base chidori clash.

Not when there is an explicit reason why they wouldn't clash equals in any mode involving Kurama.

Because Base Chidori became far stronger so the PS amplification would scale it exponentially.

And we've already seen that Naruto's base attacks are much stronger than they were at VoTe. Maybe if you ignore the fact that Naruto is stronger this would fly.

How would it not increase the size of Kurama like it did at VOTE? Aren't you the one who always argues 100% Kurama being 5x as large as 50% Kurama? S if anything, the size boost is identical. And he'd be able to mould twice as fast with twice the amount of chakra. Hence why Kurama could mould a massive TBB just as fast as 5 Bijuu could make the same sized TBB together. 100% Kurama would thus have a faster moulding speed and his standard TBB would thus be greater than 50% Kurama's. So bigger standard and bigger maximum BD.

Did you even read a word I said? Being bigger than 50% Kurama is completely irrelevant because VoTE Naruto's Kurama Avatar is not as large as 50% Kurama. It is larger than Full Kurama. Not to mention The Last and Gaiden show that Naruto's Avatar is not any larger. Twice the amount of chakra only means that he can mold chakra twice as fast, but that's irrelevant to what we are stating here. Being able to mold his standard BD faster isn't going to change the fact it'll be the same size it's always been. It only means he can make larger BD faster.

 

[Bronze]

I'm still unsure how The Last Naruto is supposed to be stronger than BSM Naruto; if the basis for this point is based on how Sasuke's Chidori destroyed a small meteor, then that is Sasuke that got stronger and not Naruto. Other than that, even Rock Lee did the same thing, so the meteor bust feat is illegitimate point. I've seen the movie myself. I saw no difference in strength between BSM Naruto and The Last Naruto. That being said, it's the same Naruto that, with Bee and 7 Bijuus, got killed by 1-eyed Rinnegan Madara who merely used the Gedo Mazou to do it. Same thing in this match-up.

 

[Transcendence]

By logic of progression? In the upcoming movie Boruto outright states Sasuke is superior to Naruto. The logic of progression stopped right after VOTE2 in which Sasuke needed new feats to compare to RSM Naruto.

Itani, your bias towards Sasuke is showing a little. You're going to take the word of someone who blatantly hates his father over what the manga has explicitly shown about the two techniques? Come on man.

 

[Eternal Mangekyo Sojobo]

May you be forgived for your sins.

 

[Apêx1]

Itani, your bias towards Sasuke is showing a little. You're going to take the word of someone who blatantly hates his father over what the manga has explicitly shown about the two techniques? Come on man.

Bias has nothing to do with it. I'll outright tell you 100% Kurama Naruto would eat Sasuke for breakfast. Fact remains that in my personal opinion, they are either always equals in every clash or not equals in every clash. If Naruto upgraded to SM, Sasuke would upgrade to MS, Naruto uprades to KCM/BM Sasuke upgrades to EMS, Naruto and Sasuke gets Hagromo chakra, etc etc. So in my personal opinion, Naruto getting 100% Kurama is stalemated by Sasuke's chakra potency developing to the point where his ninjutsu is capable of being largely superior to Naruto's. The base clash vs base clash being the only relevant thing is definitely not how I see it, but if KG believes so then he can believe so. No reason for me to believe so however, none at all, especially when every upgrade Naruto has ever received has been equaled with another upgrade from Sasuke.