Tsunade [RedRobin] vs Kisame [lKratos]
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Lord Tywin
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There are so many misconceptions about this match that people think Kisame easily wins. I am about show otherwise. Sorry Kisame fans I guess I am downgrading him since he is going to have a very hard time against Tsunade here OR we could upgrade Tsunade because she has the ability to take on Kisame.
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Counter below
I was already aware the fact that Tsunade doesn't use CES.
Now for that first paragraph, how did you come up with the assumption that Kisame needs to collide Samehada with Tsunade's fist? Not when Samehada can outmaneuver around Tsunade[
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][
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]Absorbing Tsunade's chakra like this is no problem at all either. First Kisame can use Samehada's sharp skin to cut through Tsunade's skin, while Samehada's outmaneuvering her. This will allow Samehada to absorb Tsunade's chakra straight from her chakra network. Kisame can easily outmaneuver her when he was able to do it it with v1 Bee, who is faster than Tsunade.
Regarding Kisame's strength, he's no weak shark . He broke
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. This Yamato was
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still with less wood release used. This Naruto was able to create destruction on
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level. Keep in mind that this version of Kisame was the weakest he has been. Other Kisame's strength feats are Knocking back a boss toad sized animal with a
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.Or his 30% self pushing Gai back with one hand, while Gai was using both.
So Kisame is no light weight either.
Tsunade is still pouring chakra into Katsuya. It's not like Tsunade can prevent Katsuya's chakra from being absorbed. She's merely giving more chakra to her. In turn she gave the chakra to the alliance. God Tree's branches never came for Katsuya. The branches were only going after the shinobi on the battlefield. So as long as Samehada is touching Katsuya he can absorb the chakra given to her by Tsunade. Liquid or solid form.
I've already addressed above why Kisame doesn't need to block with Samehada when he can outmaneuver her. Now since intel is manga, everyone knows of Tsunade's great strength and her power. So Kisame would know not to block with Samehada and outmaneuver her.
:lol at Tsunade being able to use Samehada. First of all she'll need to fight Samehada in her hands, as Samehada is obedient to Kisame, unless your chakra is more delicious than Kisame's as in the case with Bee. Second of all Samehada has to manually give chakra to its user, which won't happen as Samehada will fight to release itself to get back to Kisame.
Now regarding Katsuya "poofing" Kisame to another place.
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can be sucked dry, and she can die. With Samehada being able to suck 6 tails worth of chakra he'll suck her dry fast and will kill her.You're mistaken on Chakra sensing. Everything in NV has chakra. From animals to people.
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. Bugs have it. Dogs have it. Toads have it. Snakes have it. Same is true about Katsuya. She has her own distinct chakra. This'll be easy for Kisame when he can differentiate between the two different chakras he's dealing with. So Tsunade won't get out of the dome.Thinking heavenly kick of pain would do anything is funny. Not happening when Tsunade's kick hasn't shown to deal damage to something
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g. Even the kick itself won't disperse the water, as the
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by Kisame's chakra, as it was originally made from his own chakra.But regardless Tsunade won't get out of the dome.
Even if you're right about Katsuya's chakra, which you aren't, and Katsuya miraculously makes a smokescreen, Kisame can use his
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. This will let Kisame to cover every blind area he has in the dome. Kisame can also
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than hunt with their superb hunting senses. This will further allow Kisame to look for Tsunade. Sharks are easily able to tear Tsunade to shred after they find her.Kisame can use his bones to pierce Tsunade and suck her chakra. He doesn't have to go straight to her face and leave himself vulnerable in front of her. He come up behind her back and pierce her in the back. Also the fact that the force of Tsunade's punches is greatly reduced in the water.
Then she'll have breathing problems if she stays in the water for too long.
Literally the point of the water prison is its ability to not let the person in it not move a muscle. Tsunde needs to bite her hand and let blood come out to summon. She can't even bite when she can't move. She can't make hand seals either.
What comes in handy is this.
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Kisame can make Water clones and let Tsunade hit them. When she does so Kisame makes a handseal and traps Tsunade in the prison, which is literally made out of the water clone's body. This will Tsunade vulnerable to get Samehada through her skull.
I wasn't going to bother with low level suitons honestly, since I knew they wouldn't help Kisame out that much.
Kisame has no needs for this technique here.
Keep in mind the size of the water the sharks were in. They had no space to swim around freely, like they can do in the dome.
:lol Kisame literally has an ocean at his disposal.
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Now look at the size of the
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. Kisame has all the water he needs in the world to create 1000 shakrs. The size of the 1000 shakrs is puny compared to the dome. And We can also say that Kisame doesn't need nowhere near 1000 sharks for Tsunade. hundred will do. But Kisame can easily make the 1000 sharks in the dome.
Now how about we stop talking like Katsuya clones would provide a challenge to shark in water. Sharks are way faster, and Katsuya won't even be able to do a thing to the sharks in her liquid form.
Now this is where you shot yourself in the foot. Water pressure reduced the impact of Hirodura, same can be said about reducing the impact of Tsunade's punch. Water makes it harder for Tsunade to move, which means it greatly reduces her punching power.
Also the reduced power Hirudora was able to to do
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. Not even the full powered Hirudora. Tsunade at her best was able to to crack v3 Susanoo. Gai outright destroyed it. Madara was all dusty and was
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on a pile of rubble, giving us the hint that v3 Susanoo was destroyed. I said this to say that Tsunade's punching power will even reduce more than Gai's. Nothing that will Kisame.sigh
Addressed all of it. I agree that Tsunade's chakra>Kisame's, but with Samehada sucking 6 tails worth of chakra, Tsunade will run dry upon 2-3 contacts, like how I address Kisame can outmaneuver Tsunade, and suck her chakra.
Kisame has couple of ways to kill Tsunade.
1. Suck her dry
2. Drown her
3. Let his sharks eat her.
I've already addressed every single one of those.
Princessu Kaaantchan
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KingHashirama
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^^^^^ Was "debunked" for Itachi, not Kisame.
Kisame compared the title of the Sanin to his own and the uchiha.
Kisame compared the title of the Sanin to his own and the uchiha.
Lord Tywin
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TRE MERCER
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Awards
I really have nothing catchy to say because this took so long. Sorry.
Samehada will only take bits of chakra with slashes, no way is he taking 6 tails worth with each slash. Bee pretty much offered 6 tails worth of chakra ready on a silver plate for Samehada to eat. He did this by having his chakra
If Samehada wants to absorb large amounts of Tsunade's chakra then it needs to be
Is her strength known too? I thought it was just her medical career.
Well maybe not use it but as I showed she works through injury so she could still hold on to the handle then proceed to smash it into the ground like so. She lifted Bunta's sword so dont tell me Samehada gives her trouble and cant accomplish this and
I would say that would kill it or at least daze it so a clone Katsuyu can absorb it and take it to Shikkostu, taking it out of the equation. Katsuyu can absorb things super quickly as shown when she
Other Katsuyu clones stand in Kisame's way as this happens.
So again as I stated before Kisame not being able to sense where Tsunade actually is will jump into Katsuyu's liquid to find her like he did to Bee's ink[
Second you are overrating the size of the dome. Its only covers this span of trees[
Now as for the sharks you realize that
With the water he has he can only do one of those techniques. The dome or the 1000 sharks. I already explained the counter to WD and 1000 Katsuyu clones can handle the 1000 sharks since the sharks will come in like a
@Bold Its not a smokescreen, its Katsuyu's white liquid which covered
And I would argue that Tsunade has
I was just saying that if Tsunade used chakra in her hits Samehada would need to be touching the fist to absorb the chakra before an impact which would be impossible.
Samehada will only take bits of chakra with slashes, no way is he taking 6 tails worth with each slash. Bee pretty much offered 6 tails worth of chakra ready on a silver plate for Samehada to eat. He did this by having his chakra
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out of his body already, same when Kisame absorbed Bee's chakra in WD, it was
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, ready for the taking. If Samehada wants to absorb large amounts of Tsunade's chakra then it needs to be
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her body like so to really tap into her reserves instead of the chakra being hanging right out of the body all prepared like Bee had. Thankfully for Tsunade she doesnt use any form of external chakra but for Samehada/Kisame coming in close to touch Tsunade for long periods of time will only lead to them being severely injured. Remember when
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also remember his tongue could do this[
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]-[
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].I know Kisame is no light weight but against Tsunade she still over powers him seeing as how she lifted Bunta's sword and maneuvered it in the air with just her arms while being in her weakest form(Minutes from having no chakra to keep up her
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). Obviously chakra is still getting absorbed since a shinobi
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'even while our chakras are absorbed' but thats not my point. The god tree was sucking up chakra from so many shinobi at a time and liquid Katsuyu was able to defend against that and not die. The god tree sucks up more chakra and is way faster than Samehada. It was seen sucking up kurama's chakra as well as the shinobi's actual reserves in seconds[
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]-[
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] which lead to the Katsuyu clones also dying. When Samehada
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it definitely didnt suck as quickly since Bee didnt wrinkle like the shinobi did. Yes when 6 tails was presented to Samehada it ate it really quickly but as I explained over and over that was molded and presented right to Samehada but if Samehada wants to suck up Katsuyu's chakra it would need to touch Katsuyu for a long period. So solid or liquid, Samehada doesnt suck all Katsyu's chakra up in with a quick tap.... Tsunade is not being easily outmaneuvered when she was able to rip through a susano sword, grab it behind her and then slam it into Madara all while staying in the air as this all happens and all Madara could do was look on, he then reacted after she slammed it into his manifestation.
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Is her strength known too? I thought it was just her medical career.
So samehada is the one to give chakra to the user? The user cant just take the chakra by holding it? Well I said maybe.
Well maybe not use it but as I showed she works through injury so she could still hold on to the handle then proceed to smash it into the ground like so. She lifted Bunta's sword so dont tell me Samehada gives her trouble and cant accomplish this and
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.
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I would say that would kill it or at least daze it so a clone Katsuyu can absorb it and take it to Shikkostu, taking it out of the equation. Katsuyu can absorb things super quickly as shown when she
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but was later shown to have
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. Other Katsuyu clones stand in Kisame's way as this happens.
Sure unless its outright stated in the manga that she uses the
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and Katsuyu is not a normal animal seeing only portions of her get summoned, is any other animal like that?...Now to add more, Katsuyu has her own healing ability(DB4) why would she use only the Byakugo chakra if Tsunade and Kages were dying? Why not use her own chakra that she apparently has?
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]-[
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] where he will then be transported to Shikkostu forest to be melted by Katsuyu(95%).Something that big? Its a big bubble of water. Ponta was able to easily
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. Tsunade
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it, its not keeping its shape after that. Plus what feats exactly allow this thing to stay together after that attack? First off the
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is not boss toad sized. Its much smaller than a boss summon.[
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][
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]. Second you are overrating the size of the dome. Its only covers this span of trees[
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][
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] and boss summons can cover this span of trees[
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][
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][
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], obviously WD can cover more but boss summons definitely arent tiny like you thought, especially with the heights of WD and Boss summons both being above the trees. Plus Bee only spits a
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of ink which quickly spreads
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, it wouldnt spread so far if it was as big as you claim.
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Now as for the sharks you realize that
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. This
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was used for
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if he tried 1000 sharks and water dome at the same time then the water used for water dome will turn into sharks making the dome super small and making both techniques ineffective as there wont be any water left for the sharks to move on. With the water he has he can only do one of those techniques. The dome or the 1000 sharks. I already explained the counter to WD and 1000 Katsuyu clones can handle the 1000 sharks since the sharks will come in like a
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and Katsuyu wont be in a body of water and can divide
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. @Bold Its not a smokescreen, its Katsuyu's white liquid which covered
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. Kisame wont be able to physically see her. He wont know where she is in the water dome. And what bones are you talking about?
And I would argue that Tsunade has
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seeing how she could still move even after Kabuto
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so he could stay in the dome longer than other people could. I literally just showed you
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as well as
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in a water prison. And they were perfectly normal water prisons seeing as how Gai
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into one and everyone else was complaining about pressurized water.What would that change? They would still come right at the people who would repeat their defensive measures against the sharks.
Lol Tsunade is not going to try and punch Kisame in water. When did I say that? She wont even try knowing how ineffective a punch is in water. She wont try and fight in the water she will try to get out as fast as possible.
You dont have a counter to this. Once Kisame jumps into Katsuyu's liquid which is something he would do based on the manga, its over.
I already addressed this but again Samehada was able to swipe 6 tails worth of chakra because it was prepped and ready for him to take by Bee. Sameahda is not swiping 6 tails worth of chakra if its not prepared for him, he would need to be touching Tsunade for long periods of time to do this.
- Tsunade has more chakra than Kisame
- Tsunade is stronger than Kisame meaning grabbing hold of her is super dangerous
- Kisame wont be able to take her chakra easily
- Kisame cant absorb her attacks
- Kisame nor Samehada have shown to be as durable as V2 Susano which Tsunade kicked open and cracked
- Kisame wont have the bijuu chakra he had against bee to heal severe injuries
- Acid melts them both as well
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Unorthodox
Active member
I dont care who is debating for tsunade it could be kidgamer vs madvictory on this matchup there is no possible way this match ends in tsunade winning i can debate kisame vs gokage let alone tsunade stomp thread is stomped
- Clearly hasnt read my posts
- Probably wont bother to
- Still feels the need to post
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Lord Tywin
Active member
And My point is that Kisame has no need to absorb chakra from Tsunade's fists, when he can absorb from her vulnerable parts. With Kisame constantly outmaneuvering her[
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][
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] and slicing her every time Tsunade's going for a punch towards Kisame, Samehada comes in direct contact with Tsunade's chakra network, as Samehada's body is sharp, and Kisame can make Samehada sharp on
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. Samehada will forcefully pull chakra out of Tsunade's chakra network. However I agree that Samehada might not be able to pull as much as he did against Bee, but he has no need to here. He has no need to suck a massive amount of chakra when Kisame can do it more easily in the waterdome and in his fusion with Samehada.Now keep in mind that when Kisame outmaneuvered Bee he had no need to slice Bee's skin because of the chakra leak. But in Tsunade's case he'll need to slice her while outmaneuvering to increase the chakra absorption.
Kisame can do this every time Tsunade tries cqc with Kisame, as Kisame had no problem doing this to someone faster than Tsunade, Bee.
This method is mainly counter Tsunade's cqc, and to chip away chakra before Kisame pulls out the dome.
Yup, I agree that Kisame isn't as physically strong as Tsunade, but he won't be easily outpowered either.
Yes true that, but the shinobi had received a renewed cloak from Naruto. Also the fact that Naruto's fight with Obito shortly ended after Katsuya was summoned, so the shinobi weren't fighting for long against the branches. And there is also the fact that we don't know how many ninjas were left. And how many could dodge the branches. Too many factors here. There is also Minato and Tobirama saving ninjas from the branches.
I also I disagree about the chakra absorption rate. Samehada was able to absorb six tails worth of chakra, and was able to reduce Bee from v2 to v1. You're literally comparing a normal shinobi to Bee. You think a random ninjas chakra reserve on top of Kyuubi's cloak is same as Bee, as I highlighted it in bold. You say God Tree's absorption rate is faster than Samehada's absorption based on that scene, which is absolutely wrong. As I said a normal shinobi with kyuubi cloak isn't anywhere near Bee, or Bee's cloaked states, as Bee's receiving chakra from an actual bijuu, while the ninjas are receiving a fraction of kyuubi's chakra.
Samehada can absorb Katsuya's chakra if she turns into smaller pieces faster.
:lol really now? Since when is waiting for an attack to hit you and then healing the damage is the same as getting outmaneuvered? Since when is the scan you provided is that same as this?[
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][
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]Totally different things.
And Tsunade helped to end the war. As stated by Jiraiya. She had to do more than being a medic. She was even fighting the likes of Hanzo.
You literally have to be Kisame or have delicious chakra for Samehada to listen to you. So there is that.So samehada is the one to give chakra to the user? The user cant just take the chakra by holding it? Well I said maybe.
Well maybe not use it but as I showed she works through injury so she could still hold on to the handle then proceed to smash it into the ground like so. She lifted Bunta's sword so dont tell me Samehada gives her trouble and cant accomplish this andYou must be registered for see links.You must be registered for see images
I would say that would kill it or at least daze it so a clone Katsuyu can absorb it and take it to Shikkostu, taking it out of the equation. Katsuyu can absorb things super quickly as shown when sheYou must be registered for see linksbut was later shown to haveYou must be registered for see links.
Other Katsuyu clones stand in Kisame's way as this happens.
And she can get her chakra absorbed while doing so. You still have to bring an argument on how Tsunade can actually disarm Kisame, when Guy could barely do it to 30% Kisame. Gai's technique>Tsunade. Keep in mind that I said technique, not strength.
Smaller Katsuya get absorbed fast. This was evident as when God Tree absorbed Katsuya's smaller clones, she vanished.
So how does this disprove the fact that she has her own chakra? Sure she uses Tsunade's chakra for healing, but by no way did you prove she doesn't have her own chakra. And Kisame how kisame can't sense Tsunade outside of Katsuya.
Kisame has no need to to swim straight to the liquid katsuya. Not when he can surround the liquid katsuya with his 1000 shark technique to keep watch.
Ponta was kicked out. Are you really comparing the size of the heavenly kick of pain to the dome? I mean you showed the scan. Her kick range is pathetic compared to the dome. Also Tsunade's kicks and punches don't explode like Sakura's. Kisame can keep the shape of the dome, as it is made out of his own chakra. Proved by the dome moving wherever Kisame's planning to move.
You can even muliply the power of Tsunade's kick by 100 shown in that image, and bubble still won't pop.
So by no way of means is the kick going to pop a bubble that big, which was literally compared to the
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.But Tsunade won't even be able to get out.
Actually I agree that It's smaller, but it's not "much" smaller. Just a bit.
The raccoon and Bee close to each other[
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] Raccoon and the other guy next to each other [
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][
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]Naruto compared to Bunta[
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]The raccoon isn't much smaller than the boss summons.
I've already shown you how the raccoon isn't much smaller than the boss summons above
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is the raccoon compared to the edge of the dome. See how puny he is compared to the edge of the dome.As we know Kisame is in the center of the dome. This is the distance
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. There is an equal or even greater area behind Kisame. This should give you a good idea of the size of the dome, and how huge it is.This is the
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. This isn't the half of it.So no, you are severely underestimating the size of the dome.
lmao you're trying your best to undermine the size of the dome, and the gigantic amount of water kisame used for it. I've shown you above the size of the dome. This gives you an idea of the quantity of water used here.
Fact is he can easily use his 1000 sharks in the dome. Heck 500 will do. It's a bit overkill, but Kisame is a savage.
Already addressed how Kisame senses Tsunade if Katsuya turns liquid.
Fat breasts=Better lungs?
I'm talking about
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bones. There were able to pierce
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. They can also suck chakra.She can stay, but how long? She'll drown just like Bee would have.
For the sake of argument say she can. It'll provide no danger to Kisame, as his clones can are there to do it for him.
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So she'll only get rid of some clones.
Are we really discussing this? Are you saying Sharks freely swimming around=sharks bound to a little bubble of water? Sharks are faster than humans in water while they can freely swim, so there is that.
Good thing you conceded here, because Kisame can just speed blitz her in the water and suck her chakra. She won't get out of the dome. He'll have an easier time in the dome, as Tsunade's struggling for air, and is getting her chakra constantly sucked. And very fast at that, as Samehada's directly touching her.
By the time Tsunade tries to make a hand seal to "poof" kisame, Kisame'll suck little Katsuya's chakra all out.
Tsunade can literally do nothing against Kisame. All of her cqc gets counterd and will result in her chakra getting absorbed. Katsuya's acid on dry land gets washed away by suiton. Kisame has no answer to the dome, Kisame's speed in it, or any way to even pop it. Kisame'll eat her out.
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I hope people actually read my points because I feel I made some really good ones. And anyway I had a lot of fun with this debate.
As I have stated Tsunade works through injury very easily so even if shark skin rips her, it wont phase her and she would simply continue on with her punch which would surprise Kisame since he has no knowledge on how Byakugo works.
More on why Kisame is not handling Tsunade in CQC below.
So when Samehada goes to absorb the chakra of Katsuyu's solid parts it wont be as quick as when the
@Bold Jiraiya stated her
Sure she could disarm Kisame, she has many ways.
And again answer the question if Katsuyu has her own chakra and has her own restoration ability then why use Tsunade's Byakugo reserve when the Kages were dying, when her master was dying?
Katsuyu uses Tsunade's chakra, Tsunade will get masked in Katsuyu's liquid as long as she is touching her.
But the funny part is if Kisame can easily find Tsunade and what I said doesnt work then he will jump into Katsuyu's liquid to suck her chakra and will get poofed. Either way I win.
Plus what exactly has this thing been hit with that makes you think it will stay together after a big hit from the top? You are making baseless claims.
Again Bee spit out a tiny
Its a lot of water but not what you are making it out to be. Water dome of this size and 1000 Sharks cannot be used together effectively. The water dome will shrink immensely because the water is being used for the sharks and the sharks wont have the space to move which will give Tsunade a much easier time escaping.
And I still do not see these bones? Could you highlight them or something, all I see is tentacles wrapping around Kisame.
So to recap the points I made and brought evidence for:
As I have stated Tsunade works through injury very easily so even if shark skin rips her, it wont phase her and she would simply continue on with her punch which would surprise Kisame since he has no knowledge on how Byakugo works.
More on why Kisame is not handling Tsunade in CQC below.
It is faster. As I already stated Samehada was able to absorb 6 tails because Bee prepared that for him on a silver platter. But lets just measure how fast the tree and Samehada suck chakra when making physical contact. You see the tree eat Kurama's chakra and the base reserves of all those shinobi in seconds turning then old like[
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]-[
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]. When Samehada makes physical contact with Bee its a much slower absorption rate as seen by Bee just getting exhausted[
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]. So when Samehada goes to absorb the chakra of Katsuyu's solid parts it wont be as quick as when the
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since Katsuyu wont have 6 tails worth of chakra ready to be absorbed(Samehada needs to tap into the internal reserve) and Samehada does not absorb as fast as the tree. What? I said Tsunade is not getting easily outmaneuvered.
- First look at the
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- Tsunade Cuts the sword
- Grabs the broken part from behind her
- Slams it into Madara's manifestation which is the same
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- Then you see he had changed the
You must be registered for see linksbut only after Tsunade slammed the sword.
@Bold Jiraiya stated her
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, her strength has never been mentioned to be known throughout the world. I know you have to have delicious chakra for samehada to listen to you but you cant forcefully take chakra from samehada by holding it? I know it can give chakra to people.
Sure she could disarm Kisame, she has many ways.
- Her
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-
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- Her above feat with the sword shows just how quick her arms work.
- She is shown with
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Databook 2 - Ranshinshou:
Body Pathway Derangement (乱身衝, Ranshinshou)
Ninjutsu, A-rank, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
User: Tsunade
Disturbing body control by severing the pathways of [brain←→body] information flow!!
[pictures of Kabuto discovery his loss of body control]
↑One's own body moves in any way, except how one wants it to move...!? For the common shinobi, battle, not to mention even just walking, will become impossible
An attack that severs the control threads with a flash of lightning
[picture of Tsunade hitting Kabuto with this technique]
↑As soon as strike of the hand lands, electricity is poured into the enemy's nervous system, severing the signals!!
By transforming the chakra within one's body and giving it the properties of electricity, one creates an electric field. By pouring this into the nervous system of one's opponent, one deranges their body control! An extremely high-level technique, used as a medical ninjutsu. The human body is controlled with electrical signals from the brain, but a person who had those electrical signals cut off with this technique will become unable to make their body move as they want. Because she's an expert in medical treatments, Tsunade was able to master this technique.
Ninjutsu, A-rank, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
User: Tsunade
Disturbing body control by severing the pathways of [brain←→body] information flow!!
[pictures of Kabuto discovery his loss of body control]
↑One's own body moves in any way, except how one wants it to move...!? For the common shinobi, battle, not to mention even just walking, will become impossible
An attack that severs the control threads with a flash of lightning
[picture of Tsunade hitting Kabuto with this technique]
↑As soon as strike of the hand lands, electricity is poured into the enemy's nervous system, severing the signals!!
By transforming the chakra within one's body and giving it the properties of electricity, one creates an electric field. By pouring this into the nervous system of one's opponent, one deranges their body control! An extremely high-level technique, used as a medical ninjutsu. The human body is controlled with electrical signals from the brain, but a person who had those electrical signals cut off with this technique will become unable to make their body move as they want. Because she's an expert in medical treatments, Tsunade was able to master this technique.
Your only proof was 'every animal has chakra' but I already proved Katsuyu was different. No other animal has shown to use the User's chakra reserve only Katsuyu.
And again answer the question if Katsuyu has her own chakra and has her own restoration ability then why use Tsunade's Byakugo reserve when the Kages were dying, when her master was dying?
Katsuyu uses Tsunade's chakra, Tsunade will get masked in Katsuyu's liquid as long as she is touching her.
But the funny part is if Kisame can easily find Tsunade and what I said doesnt work then he will jump into Katsuyu's liquid to suck her chakra and will get poofed. Either way I win.
Tsunade is not kicking into the ocean, obviously she wouldnt disperse the ocean if she kicked it. What she is kicking into is a bubbled up body of water, once you hit the top you completely burst the bubble and nothing will keep together after that. It will simplyPonta was kicked out. Are you really comparing the size of the heavenly kick of pain to the dome? I mean you showed the scan. Her kick range is pathetic compared to the dome. Also Tsunade's kicks and punches don't explode like Sakura's. Kisame can keep the shape of the dome, as it is made out of his own chakra. Proved by the dome moving wherever Kisame's planning to move.
You can even muliply the power of Tsunade's kick by 100 shown in that image, and bubble still won't pop.
So by no way of means is the kick going to pop a bubble that big, which was literally compared to theYou must be registered for see links.
But Tsunade won't even be able to get out.
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across the ground.Plus what exactly has this thing been hit with that makes you think it will stay together after a big hit from the top? You are making baseless claims.
I will say that Kishi changes scales all the time. But Sabu has never looked like a dot compared to Ponta while with actual Boss summons people have looked like dots[
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][
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]. These are Boss summons towering and tearing up a forest[
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][
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][
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], this is Ponta not towering a forest and hardly sizing up next to tree[
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][
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]. The sizes are drastically different even taking into account Kishi's scaling.Again Bee spit out a tiny
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and it was seen easily
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which really gives you an idea to the size of it if the ink could spread out so far. Its a lot of water but not what you are making it out to be. Water dome of this size and 1000 Sharks cannot be used together effectively. The water dome will shrink immensely because the water is being used for the sharks and the sharks wont have the space to move which will give Tsunade a much easier time escaping.
Tsunade states she
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meaning Kabuto still hit her lungs. He even states an average person
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but Tsunade can move so yeah she has above average lung power. And I still do not see these bones? Could you highlight them or something, all I see is tentacles wrapping around Kisame.
Lol dont say 'For the sake of argument she can' Concede and say she can since you cant prove otherwise. I never said Kisame would be in danger. I said she easily counters a water prison.
What I am saying is even if the sharks had more water they would still come at people to bite them but Naruto was shown
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. Something Tsunade would have a way easier time doing. Thats my point. Sure I concede on a point I never made...But Kisame never finds her in Katsuyu's liquid, if he ever tried he would be poofed to Shikkotsu.
I was talking about when they are in the water dome so no he is not sucking all of liquid Katsuyu's chakra especially when the god tree couldnt.
So to recap the points I made and brought evidence for:
- Samehada is not taking 6 tails worth of chakra with each slash (Only happened because Bee prepare 6 tails worth of chakra)
- Kisame/Samehada need to physically touch Tsunade to absorb her chakra
- Tsunade is physically stronger than Kisame making above very hard
- Tsunade has more chakra than Kisame
- Samehada cannot absorb Tsunade's Physical attacks
- Kisame nor Samehada have shown to have V2 susano defenses
- Tsunade can handle Kisame in CQC
- Kisame will not have 6 tails worth of chakra to heal severe injuries
- Kisame wont be able to sense Tsunade in WD because Katsuyu will mask her, allowing Tsunade to escape and destroy the dome with a heavenly kick to the top
- If above doesnt work then Kisame senses Tsunade and jumps into Katsuyu's liquid to absorb her chakra and gets poofed to Shikkostu
- Water dome and 1000 Sharks cannot be used together effectively
- 1000 Katsuyu clones VS 1000 Water sharks
- Small scale suiton are useless as Kratos agreed
- Water prison is easily countered
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Lord Tywin
Active member
Final post of this debate. We need some judges.
And I neved said that this move's main use is for injuring Tsunade. Kisame'll use it to counter cqc with absolute ease. That move isn't to hold Tsunade in her place. It gets under her belly[
Kisame will have no problem in handling Tsunade in cqc. Not when he had no problem with Gai and Bee.
You didn't prove that she has enough power to burst the bubble. Kisame released the technique in that scan. Further proving my point that Kisame maintains the dome.
And funny thing is that you say I'm making baseless claim, when you didn't prove she has enough power to do anything to the dome. Or you didn't prove the water will flow out, when Kisame's maintaining its shape. you're the one making baseless assumptions here bud.
Sharks can freely swim around. They're not being summoned into the opponent's face, like what Kisame had to do because of the small size of the water prison. Sharks can bite from behind. From sides. From under. From top. And they can swim fast and freely while doing so.
I've already covered how Kisame can kill Tsunade. These are his 3 easiest options.
1. Drain her chakra
2. Let his sharks eat her
3. Drown her in the dome.
I felt like you had nothing solid regarding how Tsunade kills Kisame, or how she'll damage him. I've already explained why Tsunade's cqc is useless in front of Kisame. Already countered and differentiated between Katsuya's chakra and Tsunade's, and Tsunade's non-existent hope for getting out of the dome. I've shown you the size of the dome, and strategies Kisame can use while fighting Tsunade and Katsuya.
I've covered everything here. Judges can do their work now.
And I neved said that this move's main use is for injuring Tsunade. Kisame'll use it to counter cqc with absolute ease. That move isn't to hold Tsunade in her place. It gets under her belly[
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] and and throws her away to the other side.[
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] And as I said in the last post, Kisame can use Samehada's sharp skin to absorb some chakra from her.[
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]Kisame will have no problem in handling Tsunade in cqc. Not when he had no problem with Gai and Bee.
>Says Kisame isn't handling Tsunade in cqc
>Gai needed 6th gate for 30%Kisame, who was mainly using kenjutsu
>Gai needed 6th gate for 30%Kisame, who was mainly using kenjutsu
You never should have used that comparison. Bee's chakra>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A random ninja with kyuubi's cloak. Sucking Bee's chakra on top of Hachibi's actual chakra source>>>>what God Tree did. What you just said is a plain wrong comparison. I already stated other factors in that fight as well. Like the fight with Obito, who was controlling the branches, was shortly over. And the fact that Minato and Tobirama were teleporting ninjas in danger.
Katsyua won't have 6 tails worth of chara, but her parts get drained in an instant when she comes in contact with Samehada. There is the fact that Katsuya's entire body parts gets absorbed, as after God Tree had came out first, and drained the shinobi for the first time, Katsuya said her parts were dead. And there was no part of her body was present on the battlefield. Even though Sakura was present at that moment and Katsuya was tapping into Sakura's chakra.
There is also this statement here
Tsunade's statement tells us that 10% Katsuya can be summoned with only 2 Byakugou user. Tsunade on her own can't summon 10% Katsuya. This'll reduce Katsuya's size tremendously, and will further restrict her in the dome.
Katsyua won't have 6 tails worth of chara, but her parts get drained in an instant when she comes in contact with Samehada. There is the fact that Katsuya's entire body parts gets absorbed, as after God Tree had came out first, and drained the shinobi for the first time, Katsuya said her parts were dead. And there was no part of her body was present on the battlefield. Even though Sakura was present at that moment and Katsuya was tapping into Sakura's chakra.
There is also this statement here
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Bruh.....
Since you don't understand the difference between what Madara did and what Kisame did, I'm gonna spell it out for you.
First of all Tsunade was stabbed in the stomach, and she was stuck on the sword. Samehada's skin isn't long enough to hold Tsunade in place. Kisame has no need to hold Tsunade in one place, as this'll just help Kisame to make cqc null for her.
Tsunade is outmaneuvered.
Tsunade is a beast when it comes to her destructive fighting capacity. Kisame was also in akatsuki. They had intel on a lot of things.
Since you don't understand the difference between what Madara did and what Kisame did, I'm gonna spell it out for you.
First of all Tsunade was stabbed in the stomach, and she was stuck on the sword. Samehada's skin isn't long enough to hold Tsunade in place. Kisame has no need to hold Tsunade in one place, as this'll just help Kisame to make cqc null for her.
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. Kisame doesn't do that. He goes under her belly and throws her to the other side. There is no waiting period, like what Madara was doing, showing her impaled body to the other kages. I've already explained it above, for the third time. Being held in one place and then chopping a sword is different than getting tossed over to one side by a swing of sword, what Kisame can do. The two moves are fundamentally different. Happened to a faster Bee, happens to Tsunade.Tsunade is outmaneuvered.
Tsunade is a beast when it comes to her destructive fighting capacity. Kisame was also in akatsuki. They had intel on a lot of things.
No, only Kisame has been able to do that. Nothing to say Tsunade can forcefully take chakra from her.
:lol she used it on genin Naruto, sure she can use it on a S-class monster. That's pressure point? Or is it just Tsunade's speed along with the power of her finger that disarmed Naruto? Anyways, not happening with someone on Kisame's caliber. Not when she's not fast enough to pull something like that.
Tsunade doesn't have the speed to use body pathway. Not against Kisame. She'll get thrown to the other side.
:lol she used it on genin Naruto, sure she can use it on a S-class monster. That's pressure point? Or is it just Tsunade's speed along with the power of her finger that disarmed Naruto? Anyways, not happening with someone on Kisame's caliber. Not when she's not fast enough to pull something like that.
Tsunade doesn't have the speed to use body pathway. Not against Kisame. She'll get thrown to the other side.
And what did you actually prove? That Katsuya uses Tsunade's chakra to heal people? You didn't have to prove this. We already knew.
Now what did I prove? I proved that Katsuya has her own chakra. Every animal has its own chakra. No reason to believe Katsuya doesn't. And not a boss summon at that. Katsuya is merely a medium that allows Tsunade to heal more people in a shorter period of time.
And to answer your question on why Katsuha can't use her own ability. It's because Tsunade's chakra is like an amplifier to Katsuya. Byakugou enhances Katsuya. It doesn't prove that Katsuya doesn't have chakra.
Also if you claim she doesn't have chakra then how come she can use Byakugou's chakra? You need a chakra network to handle the flow of chakra. If you claim that Katsuya has no chakra, then how does she handle chakra without a chakra network? And if she doesn't have chakra then it means her chakra network is just a useless structure in her body.
So no bud, Katsuya has her own chakra. Just like ever other thing in the NV. Even the
Katsuya has her own chakra.
Now what did I prove? I proved that Katsuya has her own chakra. Every animal has its own chakra. No reason to believe Katsuya doesn't. And not a boss summon at that. Katsuya is merely a medium that allows Tsunade to heal more people in a shorter period of time.
And to answer your question on why Katsuha can't use her own ability. It's because Tsunade's chakra is like an amplifier to Katsuya. Byakugou enhances Katsuya. It doesn't prove that Katsuya doesn't have chakra.
Also if you claim she doesn't have chakra then how come she can use Byakugou's chakra? You need a chakra network to handle the flow of chakra. If you claim that Katsuya has no chakra, then how does she handle chakra without a chakra network? And if she doesn't have chakra then it means her chakra network is just a useless structure in her body.
So no bud, Katsuya has her own chakra. Just like ever other thing in the NV. Even the
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had chakra. Nothing to say she doesn't.Katsuya has her own chakra.
You didn't prove that she has enough power to burst the bubble. Kisame released the technique in that scan. Further proving my point that Kisame maintains the dome.
And funny thing is that you say I'm making baseless claim, when you didn't prove she has enough power to do anything to the dome. Or you didn't prove the water will flow out, when Kisame's maintaining its shape. you're the one making baseless assumptions here bud.
There are different tree heights. And I agree that the scaling is not when it comes to big animals. But what is accurate is the size of the dome. I've already proven how big it is.
Nah man, I don't know how many times I need to prove it to you that the dome is huge, so is its volume, and 1000 sharks are easily performed in the dome. Let me throw that baseless assumption at you again for "Kisame not being able to do 1000 sharks in the dome".
Tiny amount of ink? We've already seen how these "tiny" amounts get to huge proportions in a short time. [
I've shown you the size of the dome with proper scans, so nothing knew here. It proves that the ink Bee used was not tiny in anyway.
Nah man, I don't know how many times I need to prove it to you that the dome is huge, so is its volume, and 1000 sharks are easily performed in the dome. Let me throw that baseless assumption at you again for "Kisame not being able to do 1000 sharks in the dome".
Tiny amount of ink? We've already seen how these "tiny" amounts get to huge proportions in a short time. [
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][
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]I've shown you the size of the dome with proper scans, so nothing knew here. It proves that the ink Bee used was not tiny in anyway.
Sure, Tsunade can stay a bit longer. Will have breathing problem anyhow.
The bones I'm talking about
They'll suck her dry within moments.
The bones I'm talking about
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:lol sure a couple of clones go poof.
Sharks can freely swim around. They're not being summoned into the opponent's face, like what Kisame had to do because of the small size of the water prison. Sharks can bite from behind. From sides. From under. From top. And they can swim fast and freely while doing so.
Not happening when Kisame can distinguish between Tsunade and a mass of katsuya's liquid.
Already covered this. Simply horribly wrong comparison you made earlier. Covered that also.
1. Drain her chakra
2. Let his sharks eat her
3. Drown her in the dome.
I felt like you had nothing solid regarding how Tsunade kills Kisame, or how she'll damage him. I've already explained why Tsunade's cqc is useless in front of Kisame. Already countered and differentiated between Katsuya's chakra and Tsunade's, and Tsunade's non-existent hope for getting out of the dome. I've shown you the size of the dome, and strategies Kisame can use while fighting Tsunade and Katsuya.
Unorthodox
Active member
blah blah i can make long walls of text on how EMS Sasuke can defeat Juubito but does that mean its worth reading no
King of Camelot
Banned
I bothered to read both points of view. Very good job Red Ronin, but from the beginning this battle was decided.
IKratos wins this debate.
Kisame is the winner.
IKratos wins this debate.
Kisame is the winner.