Truth is itachi is only the shit with the hyped weapons! With just natural skills allot of ninjas beat him handily tbh. If this is going to be a true hyuga vs uchiha let's do there natural limits and abilities.
Itachi ain't gonna hang with the big dawgs with out them broken weapons!!! #Facts #NoHeDidnt #YesIDid
Intel is set to manga, with the specification that Itachi shares the knowledge that his comrades have on the Hyuga. This directly implies Itachi has all the intel that Shisui and Kisame possess. Shisui fought Ao, whom possessed the Byakugan; and Kisame skirmished around with Neji. Based on these two witnesses alone, Itachi should have intel on the Byakugans ability to see through genjutsu (Ao and Shisui), it's 360 degree vision, ability to see quantities of chakra, air palm, full body blow and it's ability to destroy chakra constructs (Neji and Kisame). All of which may or may not be common knowledge of the Hyuga. They are known as one of the Hidden Leafs oldest clans and possess the greatest bloodline [
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], obviously someone such as
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should have extensive knowledge on them; especially when we consider everything Kakashi (who has no correlation with the Hyuga) knows:
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With all that being said, Itachi should fully know and understand the danger in engaging the leader of the Hyuga in CQC; and the consequence of any single mistake.
Sharingan.
I'm not here to debate which eyes have the better insight.. I simply want to point out the advantages the sharingan grants Itachi against Hiashi. Nearly everything within a Hyugas arsenal requires body and muscle movement - from the way they position their body to spin and initiate Kaiten, to their arm thrust in order to air palm, and their body posture, hand formation, and hand strike when attempting to hit the enemies chakra points. This all requires steps of body movement, which the sharingan can pick up on and predict:
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So, much like the Byakugan that can see chakra build up and thus predict a jutsu being used, the sharingan can predict every body movement made. Aside from full body blow (which Itachi has intel on, thanks Kisame), everything in Hiashi's arsenal should be seen before it even happens. Bearing that in mind, in addition to Itachi's incredible speed and reflexes, nothing should catch Itachi by surprise. Everything will be predicted, and then avoided via his body movement or shunshin.
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GOAT.
The first course of action Itachi would take in this situation, is find a means to measure Hiashi's reaction and CQC capabilities. This will be done by creating two Karasu Bunshins, which would surround Hiashi like so:
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But a little more wide spread (I ain't drawing shit). Itachi and a Karasu Bunshin will then
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on Hiashi, with their impeccable shurikenjutsu; while the other Bunshin shoots a
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directly at him as well. This will undoubtedly force Hiashi to defend with Kaiten, which Itachi will predict, read, and observe. The same bunshin that used the Katon will then shunshin towards Hiashi as he stops revolving, and engage him in CQC to further gauge his reaction and CQC prowess. Based on feats, the Karasu Bunshins appear to be less proficient at everything then the original Itachi, so I don't see it really hardcore contesting Hiashi, but again, the purpose is for Itachi to gauge all of Hiashi's capabilities so that he knows exactly what he's up against. Soon as Hiashi defeats the Bunshin by whatever means, the clone will disperse into a flock of crows. Regardless if he got feinted or not, the sudden appearance of crows will in fact catch him off guard, as it did to another Dojutsu user (
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), as well as an elite sensor (
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), so I have no reason to believe Hiashi will be an exception against something he has no prior knowledge on. With the disarray of crows, the real Itachi will shunshin blitz with the end result being:
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Unless proven otherwise by Drae, Hiashi has no intel on Tsukiyomi. He would safely assume that he can
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with his Byakugan, only to fail due to the fact that Tsukiyomi is not like any other standard genjutsu. It only lasts a single moment in real world time, and can only be broken by a sharingan user with Itachi's same blood type. Unfortunately, Hiashi doesn't meet those requirements, and get's finished.
Why do I think Itachi's shunshin is adequate enough to pull this off against Hiashi?
Itachi's shunshin speed is so near instantaneous that Nagato didn't even have the time to realize his shared vision was blocked. As shown in the manga panel below, Nagato instantly see's exactly what his other set of eyes see via shared vision. They tracked Bee, and thus, Nagato immediately saw him coming from above as well, and countered accordingly.
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The very moment Itachi's kunai made contact with Nagato's summons to block the shared vision, Itachi shunshin'd from where he was concealing himself (within the forest) and caught Nagato completely by surprise [
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] before he even realized his shared vision had been
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. The time between the kunai's landing on the summons eyes, and Itachi shunshin'ing (with susano'o activated) as he ripped through Asura Path had to be split second timing, considering Nagato was not even given the chance to show a reaction to his vision being blocked.
Secondly, Itachi's shunshin is nigh susano'o arrow speed. We both know that DSM Kabuto has top tier perception and reaction. He was very easily able to avoid Sasuke's susano'o the first time around [
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]. However, with a
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, Sasuke was able to nail Kabuto the second time [
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]. A very comparable scenario to what Itachi did to Kabuto [
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]-[
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] immediately after. Thus, Itachi's shunshin speed is very easily around susano'o arrow speed - which the likes of
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and
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couldn't even properly react to.
So before I go any further, I'll leave it up to Draegod to prove how Hiashi's perception and reaction trumps someone like DSM Kabuto's, despite databook scores and statements that highly suggest otherwise
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Databook IV said:
Hiashi trained Neji, who was of the branch family. They dance in unison on the battlefield.
Hyuga's outright counter visual genjustu. I wont say how but the ridiculous way Hyuga fans say they counter it has some truth to it. But yeah its a pretty ridiculous way to counter genjustu.
Nice post Bruh. And I appreciate you doing a Chess style debate! I haven't had this style of debate since I debated against Varrah. I'll see what I can muster up.
Intel is set to manga, with the specification that Itachi shares the knowledge that his comrades have on the Hyuga. This directly implies Itachi has all the intel that Shisui and Kisame possess. Shisui fought Ao, whom possessed the Byakugan; and Kisame skirmished around with Neji. Based on these two witnesses alone, Itachi should have intel on the Byakugans ability to see through genjutsu (Ao and Shisui), it's 360 degree vision, ability to see quantities of chakra, air palm, full body blow and it's ability to destroy chakra constructs (Neji and Kisame). All of which may or may not be common knowledge of the Hyuga. They are known as one of the Hidden Leafs oldest clans and possess the greatest bloodline [
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], obviously someone such as
You must be registered for see links
should have extensive knowledge on them; especially when we consider everything Kakashi (who has no correlation with the Hyuga) knows:
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With all that being said, Itachi should fully know and understand the danger in engaging the leader of the Hyuga in CQC; and the consequence of any single mistake.
Ah I see you went as far as SHisu's knowledge to help Itachi. Good move on your part, but he Still doesn't know about the Secret techs in the Hyuga clan nor does he know about AO seeing chakra and how it is for him (unless AO his enemy told him, which you would have to then prove). Next is Neji breaking out of Water prison; Kisame has no idea how he did it, all he knows is that it was done. Since Neji did it with out warning and stated the move of choice to do it. But it isn't that important to even care about since he wouldn't know the mechanics anyway. But for sure he would know not to engage in CQC let alone get caught slipping.
Hiashi's Intel:
Hiashi would know everything he has seen cannon in the war from seeing Sasuke with EMS fight and EMS Madara fighting Hashirama (two EMS users). He would also Know what his two family members Hinata and Neji know as well, I will then list the fact he knows everything to know about the Uchihas.
- Neji (from teammate Lee): Know
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. Annd
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as well.
- Neji: the ability to
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- From all the
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- Hinata (from kakashi and crew): Knows
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etc etc (I have more scans btw, it's just too much and pointless, you get the point!)
So in short:
1. He knows about amatertsu from seeing sasuke personally fight, and hinata's run in with it
2. He knows about Genjutsu bar maybe tsukuyomi, but with the info Oru and kabuto have on itachi; thanks to hinata
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3. He knows about susanoo from seeing both sasuke and madara's.
4. He knows about the basic Sharingan feats from seeing sasuke fight and ofc his familiy's info on the uchiha.
He knows everything he need's to know on itachi just like Kumo knowing about Itachi and his hype. And whats worse is that Itachi doesn't know what Hiashi knows.
I'm not here to debate which eyes have the better insight.. I simply want to point out the advantages the sharingan grants Itachi against Hiashi. Nearly everything within a Hyugas arsenal requires body and muscle movement - from the way they position their body to spin and initiate Kaiten, to their arm thrust in order to air palm, and their body posture, hand formation, and hand strike when attempting to hit the enemies chakra points. This all requires steps of body movement, which the sharingan can pick up on and predict:
lol Although you are correct in muscle movements being needed to use most of the techs in our arsenal, Movement isn't need at all for the rest. With the Hyuga's ability to control chakra like no other, movement isn't need to leak chakra at all.
So, much like the Byakugan that can see chakra build up and thus predict a jutsu being used, the sharingan can predict every body movement made. Aside from full body blow (which Itachi has intel on, thanks Kisame), everything in Hiashi's arsenal should be seen before it even happens. Bearing that in mind, in addition to Itachi's incredible speed and reflexes, nothing should catch Itachi by surprise. Everything will be predicted, and then avoided via his body movement or shunshin.
But it's fact the sharingan can not see chakra build up that initiates a Jutsu or anything chakra related like the Byakugan. The only thing (prediction wise) the sharingan can do is See muscle movements and the color of chakra. And through hand seals they see jutsu's being used etc. With that being said, the Byakugan goes way beyond any Sharingan feat to see any and all chakra build up! I'll explain:
The byakugan's ability to Sense and Predict all ninjutsu and chakra related moves:
With the Byakugan Hiashi would be able to
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with No difficulty, he would also be able to see and predict any and
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before Itachi does anything. And ofc that includes the Infamous ..SHUNSHIN!
Databook 1 - Shunshin no Jutsu:
Body Flicker Technique (瞬身の術, Shunshin no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, D-rank, Supplementary
Users: Gaara, Hatake Kakashi, et al
A movement technique with extreme speed like a gust of wind!!
Appearing along with the wind, disappearing like the wind: the ninja's instantaneous movement technique. This super fast movement is almost impossible to grasp with the naked eye. If seen by an ordinary person, it would seem as if the user has teleported... In reality, the user has vitalized his body with chakra and moved at super speeds. The amount of chakra used up differs depending on the distance and elevation of their stopping point in comparison to the starting point.
The cloud of sand dances in the wind
[picture of Gaara using the Body Flicker]
[picture of Haku using the Body Flicker]
[picture of Kakashi using the Body Flicker]
↑→Haku's and Kakashi's Body Flicker. Dancing leaves and disappearing in an instant like mist. There are many variations of the "Body Flicker" for the various villages and user. Gaara's use includes the "Sand Body Flicker"*. There are also the "Mist Body Flicker"**, "Water Body Flicker"***, and "Leaf Body Flicker"****, among many others.
*Sand Body Flicker (砂瞬身, Suna Shunshin)
**Mist Body Flicker" (霧瞬身, Kiri Shunshin)
***Water Body Flicker" (水瞬身, Mizu Shunshin)
****"Leaf Body Flicker" (木ノ葉瞬身, Konoha Shunshin)
Now that You all have the databook entry on Shunshin I'll further break it down for the viewers and FT. Any and all shunshin's in the manga requires Chakra as it is ninjutsu and the user
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then unleash and burst forward appearing as if they teleported. As seen
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who are both faster then Itachi no disputing! With that being said, the Byakugan not only would instantly see chakra gather to the legs but also see the
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before any and all shunshin attempts are made. And just encase anyone is confused:
This is Itachi's regular Foot speed with no Shunshin:
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This is Itachi with Shunshin:
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And others but you guys get the point.
It is night and day difference on Itachi base speed and him using Shunshin. His foot speed isn't anything worth bragging about, and his Shunshin is predicted before he even uses it. He would never know that his Shushin would be gauged so he wouldn't know that Hiashi is ready to counter before the counter is done. Basically The element of surprise is on Hiashi's side.
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Now if Itachi decides to Shunshin towards Hiashi (after Hiashi see's his attempt before he does) he is instant Hit with either rotation
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! And keep in mind the although Itachi can read body movements the sharingan can not read nor predict Chakra from the user as seen below:
EMS Not predicting nor knowing Susanoo was about to be used:
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3 Tomoe not Predicting nor countering chakra cloak naruto:
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Sasuke not predicting the Wood rampart from encasing him:
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Also keep in mind, sasuke easily could have shunshin away the moment the wood popped out of the ground if he could. But since the sharingan cannot predict chakra related things he wasn't even prepared and instead had to break out of the wood jutsu.
Sasuke not predicting nor seeing Bee (with no hand signs) about to use Lightning style as well:
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And plenty of other example in the manga I have at my disposal. The point being they can only predict the ninja and there body, but nothing else that is chakra related. Although they can see the color of chakra, they cannot see when chakra will beused outside of hand seals and what the chakra will do once exposed. Manga fact!
So now that we got that out the way; Rotation not only will not be predicted, but also no form of Jyuuken or chakra will be seen coming since the sharingan cannot predict chakra build up nor chakra related attacks/enhancements. If and when in range Itachi will be forced to use Susanoo to tank and protect against Hiashi's giant rotation or be instantly killed from the impact.
The first course of action Itachi would take in this situation, is find a means to measure Hiashi's reaction and CQC capabilities. This will be done by creating two Karasu Bunshins, which would surround Hiashi like so:
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But a little more wide spread (I ain't drawing shit). Itachi and a Karasu Bunshin will then
You must be registered for see links
on Hiashi, with their impeccable shurikenjutsu; while the other Bunshin shoots a
You must be registered for see links
directly at him as well. This will undoubtedly force Hiashi to defend with Kaiten, which Itachi will predict, read, and observe. The same bunshin that used the Katon will then shunshin towards Hiashi as he stops revolving, and engage him in CQC to further gauge his reaction and CQC prowess. Based on feats, the Karasu Bunshins appear to be less proficient at everything then the original Itachi, so I don't see it really hardcore contesting Hiashi, but again, the purpose is for Itachi to gauge all of Hiashi's capabilities so that he knows exactly what he's up against. Soon as Hiashi defeats the Bunshin by whatever means, the clone will disperse into a flock of crows. Regardless if he got feinted or not, the sudden appearance of crows will in fact catch him off guard, as it did to another Dojutsu user (
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), as well as an elite sensor (
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), so I have no reason to believe Hiashi will be an exception against something he has no prior knowledge on. With the disarray of crows, the real Itachi will shunshin blitz with the end result being:
This is Where I think I will pick a part your Post. The tactic Itachi will take not only will fail but will show him nothing but the fact he should eliminate half his arsenal. As explained earlier all Shunshin will be seen ahead of time and all ninjutsu seen as well ahead of time.
Countering the Shuriken tactic:
Hiashi will simply
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and nothing more is needed to stop any and all Shurikens as seen in cannon
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(bare in mind Kido's arrows>>>>Standard shurikens). And Do not question whether he can have a layer of chakra around his body and fight temporarily.
Countering Katon or Suiton:
This is the easiest part that will Kill all long ranged attempts! When Hiashi's Chakra armor protects him from the Shurikens he can use Vacuum Palm to no diff destroy the Fire jutsu (or water) and destroy Itachi's clone at the same time!
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the clone and his fire jutsu is plowed straight through and either destroy the clone or make the crows scatter.
Countering the Crow clone Completely:
The byakugan would instantly see the Crow itachi lacks organs. Simple! Shadow clones copy the OG perfectly inside and out, Crow clone doesn't seeing as it is nothing but Crows flocked together in disguise as Itachi.
A human-shaped servant is created for get-togethers, inheriting his master's powers!!
A technique that produces a clone by projecting one's own chakra towards dozens of "crows". Because it uses crows as an medium, it requires less chakra then the normal "Shadow Clone Technique," while still being able to perform techniques.
[picture of Sasuke being surrounded by the crows from Itachi's Crow Clone]
→↓The dozens of crows come together to form the body of a clone. When the chakra projected by the user is severed, the crows disperse.
[picture of Itachi's Crow Clone flying apart in front of Naruto]
! And a Vacuum palm will be more then enough to kill the entire clone! "But Sage kabuto which is a sensor didn't see through it", that is because Kabuto doesn't have the Byakugan that not only see the Color of chakra, It also see's the Level of chakra,
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Something No sensor can do , nor can a sensor tell what is a clone besides from the chakra type (which the clone matches its user btw). So in short, Only Clones (like shadow clone, parasite and element clones) that copy inside and out are even worth bringing up. But of course since Itachi doesn't know the byakugan can go beyond just chakra he wouldn't know nor learn more of Hiashi's insight!
Unless proven otherwise by Drae, Hiashi has no intel on Tsukiyomi. He would safely assume that he can
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with his Byakugan, only to fail due to the fact that Tsukiyomi is not like any other standard genjutsu. It only lasts a single moment in real world time, and can only be broken by a sharingan user with Itachi's same blood type. Unfortunately, Hiashi doesn't meet those requirements, and get's finished.
Lets ignore the fact that Tsukuyomi is a Close range Jutsu. Lets then ignore that Rotation will Keep Itachi at bay or one shot him once in range (which is atleast 5-10 meters btw). Based on the common knowledge and Sharingan in general, Hiashi would either:
1. Close his eyes and Fight the sharingan with X-ray vision and still perfectly be able to fight as if his eyes were open.
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2. Fight him with his eyes looking up or down or left or right at all times while still being able to See itachi's every movement perfectly! He can literally stare at itachi's neck the entire fight and still be able to see the entire battle ground perfectly as if he was staring at itachi face to face!
3. See the build up of chakra in Itachi's eye that would lead to a genjutsu, then close his eyes to avoid the tech. Since Itachi would first have to activate Mangekyo, then initiate Tsukuyomi (fact). It isn't a "tsukuyomi is used instant with no chakra gather" tech. As all MS jutsu require chakra and a shit load of it at that!
4. And if a miracle impossible feat of getting them in a genjutsu happens (bar Tsuku) then they see it and break it no diff. So all normal genjutsu is also useless, hell even MS Koto was useless and seen through.
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I have then perfectly Countered all genjutsu equations. Not only would itachi not know this, he (based on your tactic that cannot be changed btw) has wasted a shit load of chakra attempting Tsukuyomi. So based off your starting strategy and tactic Itachi has already been perfectly countered and lost allot of chakra wasting Tsukuyomi.
Why do I think Itachi's shunshin is adequate enough to pull this off against Hiashi?
Itachi's shunshin speed is so near instantaneous that Nagato didn't even have the time to realize his shared vision was blocked. As shown in the manga panel below, Nagato instantly see's exactly what his other set of eyes see via shared vision. They tracked Bee, and thus, Nagato immediately saw him coming from above as well, and countered accordingly.
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The very moment Itachi's kunai made contact with Nagato's summons to block the shared vision, Itachi shunshin'd from where he was concealing himself (within the forest) and caught Nagato completely by surprise [
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] before he even realized his shared vision had been
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. The time between the kunai's landing on the summons eyes, and Itachi shunshin'ing (with susano'o activated) as he ripped through Asura Path had to be split second timing, considering Nagato was not even given the chance to show a reaction to his vision being blocked.
Secondly, Itachi's shunshin is nigh susano'o arrow speed. We both know that DSM Kabuto has top tier perception and reaction. He was very easily able to avoid Sasuke's susano'o the first time around [
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]. However, with a
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, Sasuke was able to nail Kabuto the second time [
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]. A very comparable scenario to what Itachi did to Kabuto [
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]-[
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] immediately after. Thus, Itachi's shunshin speed is very easily around susano'o arrow speed - which the likes of
I already countered any and all shunshin attempts in the beginning of my post. But will note that Itachi is no where near Susanoo arrow nor would it matter if he was. Seeing as The byakugan was able to help neji react to something that is able to cross 100 meters of land (with tree's in the way) with in a second or two! And ofc Hiashi was able to track something beyond any speed feat (bar 8th gate and SO6P related beings) displayed in the manga. And ofc Hiashi is able to move his feet in place faster then Itachi can Body flicker (will explain later).
So before I go any further, I'll leave it up to Draegod to prove how Hiashi's perception and reaction trumps someone like DSM Kabuto's, despite databook scores and statements that highly suggest otherwise
After he deflected the might of the juubi and it was a super fast pinpoint attack? That not even the rest of the ninjas there could intercept bar gate users? (bare in mind they weren't the only ninjas protecting naruto. Neji was simply the only one aware (byakugan) and fast enough to save them).
I haven't even began to get serious bro Sorry if my post is a bit lazy, I'm waiting on you to Go Super saiyan on my ass. Please push me to the next level with your next post.
I hope you eat it so I can then proceed to give you a stomach Virus! I'm going to show you the true meaning of Trapped Mouse! haha And yea, I was torn in between intro songs. Try and post one during your next post, something that I can vibe with when Reading it. Lets put on a show!!
I hope you eat it so I can then proceed to give you a stomach Virus! I'm going to show you the true meaning of Trapped Mouse! haha And yea, I was torn in between intro songs. Try and post one during your next post, something that I can vibe with when Reading it. Lets put on a show!!
First off, read the thread before looking stupid. Second, When did I use the databook stat sheet in this thread? When it is a fact current Hiashi and Itachi (prime) cannot be gauged by the stat sheet.
Why are you even here with your Scrub thoughts and post?
First off, read the thread before looking stupid. Second, When did I use the databook stat sheet in this thread? When it is a fact current Hiashi and Itachi (prime) cannot be gauged by the stat sheet.
Why are you even here with your Scrub thoughts and post?
I was joking, just repeating strict but inverting the function of Totsuka and Yata. Chill m8
I just thought it was funny that you would use data book stats to support your claim in one thread, then dismiss them in another. I was only messing around, gl
Ah I see you went as far as SHisu's knowledge to help Itachi. Good move on your part, but he Still doesn't know about the Secret techs in the Hyuga clan nor does he know about AO seeing chakra and how it is for him (unless AO his enemy told him, which you would have to then prove). Next is Neji breaking out of Water prison; Kisame has no idea how he did it, all he knows is that it was done. Since Neji did it with out warning and stated the move of choice to do it. But it isn't that important to even care about since he wouldn't know the mechanics anyway. But for sure he would know not to engage in CQC let alone get caught slipping.
It's pretty common knowledge that the Byakugan can see the chakra points and what not, so it shouldn't be a secret to Itachi that they can see chakra. In regards to Neji; Kisame witnessed the body posture Neji made, as he completely bursted the water prison in all directions. Based on that alone, as well as other basic knowledge on the Byakugan (like how air palm works, and the ability to stop/block chakra flow), Itachi should figure out the mechanics behind full body blow, and it being a 360 attack, without actually knowing the jutus name. It is Itachi Uchiha after all - I don't believe I need to expand on that.
Hiashi would know everything he has seen cannon in the war from seeing Sasuke with EMS fight and EMS Madara fighting Hashirama (two EMS users). He would also Know what his two family members Hinata and Neji know as well, I will then list the fact he knows everything to know about the Uchihas.
- Neji (from teammate Lee): Know
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. Annd
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as well.
- Neji: the ability to
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- From all the
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- Hinata (from kakashi and crew): Knows
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etc etc (I have more scans btw, it's just too much and pointless, you get the point!)
So in short:
1. He knows about amatertsu from seeing sasuke personally fight, and hinata's run in with it
2. He knows about Genjutsu bar maybe tsukuyomi, but with the info Oru and kabuto have on itachi; thanks to hinata
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3. He knows about susanoo from seeing both sasuke and madara's.
4. He knows about the basic Sharingan feats from seeing sasuke fight and ofc his familiy's info on the uchiha.
He knows everything he need's to know on itachi just like Kumo knowing about Itachi and his hype. And whats worse is that Itachi doesn't know what Hiashi knows.
Oh, shit lol. Wasn't expecting Hiashi to have this much intel. The only thing I disagree with is in the bold. You stated that based on the intel that Kabuto gathered and gave to Naruto, Hiashi would know every one of Itachi's major techniques. That isn't true at all, considering Kabuto didn't even know what Susano'o was until his fight against Edo Itachi and EMS Sasuke [
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], and clearly had no idea about Itachi's Karasu Bunshins, considering how off guard he was caught when it dispersed. So I have no reason to believe that book held extensive knowledge on Itachi's entire moveset, especially his MS techniques. So the only info I'll grant you on, pertaining to Itachi's MS, is Susano'o and Amaterasu. There is zero proof or anything that suggests he has intel on Tsukiyomi, Magnatamas, and the Totsuka Blade.
lol Although you are correct in muscle movements being needed to use most of the techs in our arsenal, Movement isn't need at all for the rest. With the Hyuga's ability to control chakra like no other, movement isn't need to leak chakra at all.
The sharingan can see muscle movement, and it can see when Hiashi is expelling chakra out of his body. So as I said before, nearly everything in the Hyugas arsenal can be seen and predicted before it happens.
But it's fact the sharingan can not see chakra build up that initiates a Jutsu or anything chakra related like the Byakugan. The only thing (prediction wise) the sharingan can do is See muscle movements and the color of chakra. And through hand seals they see jutsu's being used etc. With that being said, the Byakugan goes way beyond any Sharingan feat to see any and all chakra build up! I'll explain:
The byakugan's ability to Sense and Predict all ninjutsu and chakra related moves:
With the Byakugan Hiashi would be able to
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with No difficulty, he would also be able to see and predict any and
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before Itachi does anything. And ofc that includes the Infamous ..SHUNSHIN!
Now that You all have the databook entry on Shunshin I'll further break it down for the viewers and FT. Any and all shunshin's in the manga requires Chakra as it is ninjutsu and the user
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then unleash and burst forward appearing as if they teleported. As seen
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who are both faster then Itachi no disputing! With that being said, the Byakugan not only would instantly see chakra gather to the legs but also see the
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before any and all shunshin attempts are made. And just encase anyone is confused:
This is Itachi's regular Foot speed with no Shunshin:
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This is Itachi with Shunshin:
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And others but you guys get the point.
It is night and day difference on Itachi base speed and him using Shunshin. His foot speed isn't anything worth bragging about, and his Shunshin is predicted before he even uses it. He would never know that his Shushin would be gauged so he wouldn't know that Hiashi is ready to counter before the counter is done. Basically The element of surprise is on Hiashi's side.
I'm fully aware that the Byakugan can see chakra build up and predict jutsu, as I specifically said in my opening post. What needs to be mentioned here is, despite of all that, it's not impossible to overwhelm a Byakugan user or catch them off guard.
Exhibit A.)
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Exhibit B.)
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There are some more examples, but I believe I proved my point. It is not impossible to overwhelm a Byakugan user with fast consecutive attacks and/or extremely fast jutsu execution - which are both within Itachi's capabilities.
Now if Itachi decides to Shunshin towards Hiashi (after Hiashi see's his attempt before he does) he is instant Hit with either rotation
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! And keep in mind the although Itachi can read body movements the sharingan can not read nor predict Chakra from the user as seen below:
EMS Not predicting nor knowing Susanoo was about to be used:
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3 Tomoe not Predicting nor countering chakra cloak naruto:
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Sasuke not predicting the Wood rampart from encasing him:
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Also keep in mind, sasuke easily could have shunshin away the moment the wood popped out of the ground if he could. But since the sharingan cannot predict chakra related things he wasn't even prepared and instead had to break out of the wood jutsu.
Sasuke not predicting nor seeing Bee (with no hand signs) about to use Lightning style as well:
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And plenty of other example in the manga I have at my disposal. The point being they can only predict the ninja and there body, but nothing else that is chakra related. Although they can see the color of chakra, they cannot see when chakra will beused outside of hand seals and what the chakra will do once exposed. Manga fact!
So now that we got that out the way; Rotation not only will not be predicted, but also no form of Jyuuken or chakra will be seen coming since the sharingan cannot predict chakra build up nor chakra related attacks/enhancements. If and when in range Itachi will be forced to use Susanoo to tank and protect against Hiashi's giant rotation or be instantly killed from the impact.
Ignoring the fact that Itachi's top shunshin is ridiculously fast and nigh instantaneous; rotation will be predicted every single time (assuming it's able to be even initiated in time).
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Every time Kaiten is about to be initiated; the user must emit chakra out of his/her body, and then spin. The Sharingan will easily pick up on both. The very moment chakra is being released from the body, it will be visible to the sharingan. And before Hiashi even attemps to position his feet in order to spin himself, the image will be shown in Itachi's head before it even happens. That goes for nearly everything in Hiashi's arsenal. That entire spoiler you provided is irrelevant and doesn't apply to the Hyuga. Everything they do first requires muscle movement and then/or releasing chakra out of the body before they use one of their techniques. It's all seen and predicted via the sharingan.
The same applies with Juken as well.
It all works by first releasing chakra, then thrusting (muscle movement). The Sharingan sees the chakra being emitted and then predicts Hiashi's next move before he does it.
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With that all being said and established, successfully landing a hit on Itachi is going to be extremely difficult. Not only will Itachi be able to predict practically everything Hiashi throws at him, but his incredibly fast reflexes and speed (Above EMS Sasuke's) will allow him to avoid it all as well [
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]-[
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]-[
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]. And on the very rare occasion that Itachi finds himself in a scenario that he can't avoid something with his own bodily reflexes/speed then he can always fall back on Susano'o as a last resort.
This is Where I think I will pick a part your Post. The tactic Itachi will take not only will fail but will show him nothing but the fact he should eliminate half his arsenal. As explained earlier all Shunshin will be seen ahead of time and all ninjutsu seen as well ahead of time.
Countering the Shuriken tactic:
Hiashi will simply
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and nothing more is needed to stop any and all Shurikens as seen in cannon
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(bare in mind Kido's arrows>>>>Standard shurikens). And Do not question whether he can have a layer of chakra around his body and fight temporarily.
Nope. What really happened in cannon is Neji had to use Kaiten in order to deflect all of Kidomaru's kunai's [
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]. The only thing releasing chakra can accomplish is slowing down the momentum of a kunai, which gave Neji the opportunity to completely dodge it[
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]-[
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]. It's not strong enough to shield Hiashi from a 360 shurikenjutsu assault from Itachi; he'd need to use Kaiten. And no those weren't Kidomaru's arrows, those were his Kunai's. Big difference between the two. Also, bear in mind that "Shurikenjutsu" includes throwing kunais too, not just shurikens. There is no real major difference between the ones Kidomaru's produces and the ordinary ones that Itachi carries. Neji needed Kaiten to deflect Naruto's 3 shuriken anyways [
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], so that's not even an arguement.
Not to mention, Itachi can also slap explosive tags on them as well. So if by any non-manga supported chance that the chakra armor somehow becames a viable defense, Hiashi will then be blasted in point blank range (according to your strategy).
This is the easiest part that will Kill all long ranged attempts! When Hiashi's Chakra armor protects him from the Shurikens he can use Vacuum Palm to no diff destroy the Fire jutsu (or water) and destroy Itachi's clone at the same time!
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the clone and his fire jutsu is plowed straight through and either destroy the clone or make the crows scatter.
Hiashi's chakra armor is an inadequate defense, so from the start it's not going down this way. But going by your strategy, Hiashi get's pelted throughout his entire body by shuriken and kunai's (possibly explosive tagged) and the only thing he'd accomplish is countering the Katon. The air palm will never hit Itachi's bunshin because it will be predicted and seen by the real Itachi and the other Karasu Bunshin (Bunshins are linked to the original), so it will immediately move out of the air palms trajectory. Furthermore, since air palm will be predicted before it's even used (Itachi also has full intel on it); The real Itachi or bunshin can simply take this time to shunshin blitz at nigh susano'o arrow speed, as Hiashi uses air palm on the Katon. Remember when I said it's not impossible to overwhelm a Byakugan user or catch them off guard with overwhelmingingly fast consecutive attacks and extremely swift jutsu execution (even provided manga scans to prove it)? Well, Itachi say's hi, I'm the best at it. Hiashi is getting overwhelmed here without the use of Kaiten.
I made this entire strategy to force Hiashi to use Kaiten. You'd be wise to concede on that, or it's over before the battle really even begun.
The byakugan would instantly see the Crow itachi lacks organs. Simple! Shadow clones copy the OG perfectly inside and out, Crow clone doesn't seeing as it is nothing but Crows flocked together in disguise as Itachi.
Not only is the Crow clone fodder it will be
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! And a Vacuum palm will be more then enough to kill the entire clone! "But Sage kabuto which is a sensor didn't see through it", that is because Kabuto doesn't have the Byakugan that not only see the Color of chakra, It also see's the Level of chakra,
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Something No sensor can do , nor can a sensor tell what is a clone besides from the chakra type (which the clone matches its user btw). So in short, Only Clones (like shadow clone, parasite and element clones) that copy inside and out are even worth bringing up. But of course since Itachi doesn't know the byakugan can go beyond just chakra he wouldn't know nor learn more of Hiashi's insight!
This is all nice and dandy, but it's completely irrelevant to my premise. It was never a part of my argument to attempt at bunshin feinting Hiashi. Never. So why counter it as such? The purpose of the Karasu Bunshin was to aid Itachi in gauging Hiashi's capabilites and overwhelm him. It was never to feint him.
The first course of action Itachi would take in this situation, is find a means to measure Hiashi's reaction and CQC capabilities. This will be done by creating two Karasu Bunshins, which would surround Hiashi like so:
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But a little more wide spread (I ain't drawing shit). Itachi and a Karasu Bunshin will then
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on Hiashi, with their impeccable shurikenjutsu; while the other Bunshin shoots a
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directly at him as well. This will undoubtedly force Hiashi to defend with Kaiten, which Itachi will predict, read, and observe. The same bunshin that used the Katon will then shunshin towards Hiashi as he stops revolving, and engage him in CQC to further gauge his reaction and CQC prowess. Based on feats, the Karasu Bunshins appear to be less proficient at everything then the original Itachi, so I don't see it really hardcore contesting Hiashi, but again, the purpose is for Itachi to gauge all of Hiashi's capabilities so that he knows exactly what he's up against. Soon as Hiashi defeats the Bunshin by whatever means, the clone will disperse into a flock of crows. Regardless if he got feinted or not, the sudden appearance of crows will in fact catch him off guard, as it did to another Dojutsu user (
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), as well as an elite sensor (
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), so I have no reason to believe Hiashi will be an exception against something he has no prior knowledge on. With the disarray of crows, the real Itachi will shunshin blitz with the end result being:
1. Itachi creates 2 Karasu Bunshins
2. 2 of them use their shurikenjutsu, while the other Katons
3. Hiashi Kaitens or fails miserably at countering everything in your strategy
4. 1 Karasu Bunshin get's sacrificed in engaging Hiashi in CQC to ultimately gauge his reactions
5. The Karasu Bunshin disperses into crows (Hiashi has zero knowledge on)
6. The real Itachi shunshin blitzes in for a Tsukiyomi
Where did I ever incorporate a bunshin feint or imply that Hiashi will be feinted? He'd have to kill the Bunshin(s) either way, and when he does, they disperse into crows. Due to a lack of knowledge, the sudden flock of crows will undoubtedly catch Hiashi off guard (Not impossible, as Kisame's water prison caught Neji off guard) just as it caught Hebi Sasuke and DSM Kabuto off guard, which is the perfect gateway for a shunshin blitz per cannon. So being able to differentiate the bunshin from the original doesn't mean much or change the fact that he'd have no idea that it would suddenly disperse into crows.
Lets ignore the fact that Tsukuyomi is a Close range Jutsu. Lets then ignore that Rotation will Keep Itachi at bay or one shot him once in range (which is atleast 5-10 meters btw). Based on the common knowledge and Sharingan in general, Hiashi would either:
1. Close his eyes and Fight the sharingan with X-ray vision and still perfectly be able to fight as if his eyes were open.
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2. Fight him with his eyes looking up or down or left or right at all times while still being able to See itachi's every movement perfectly! He can literally stare at itachi's neck the entire fight and still be able to see the entire battle ground perfectly as if he was staring at itachi face to face!
3. See the build up of chakra in Itachi's eye that would lead to a genjutsu, then close his eyes to avoid the tech. Since Itachi would first have to activate Mangekyo, then initiate Tsukuyomi (fact). It isn't a "tsukuyomi is used instant with no chakra gather" tech. As all MS jutsu require chakra and a shit load of it at that!
4. And if a miracle impossible feat of getting them in a genjutsu happens (bar Tsuku) then they see it and break it no diff. So all normal genjutsu is also useless, hell even MS Koto was useless and seen through.
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I have then perfectly Countered all genjutsu equations. Not only would itachi not know this, he (based on your tactic that cannot be changed btw) has wasted a shit load of chakra attempting Tsukuyomi. So based off your starting strategy and tactic Itachi has already been perfectly countered and lost allot of chakra wasting Tsukuyomi.
Let's ignore the fact that a Karasu Bunshin just dispersed into a flock of crows, creating the perfect distraction. Let's then pretend that it's impossible to catch a Byakugan user off guard and overwhelm them, while forgetting that a Hyuga can be blitzed before being able to fully initiate Kaiten [
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]. Not even a concrete argument anyways, considering
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. Though, it's a close call.
More inadequate counters. For one, this is placing Hiashi way out of character. Making him fight with his eyes closed or purposely looking away and avoiding eye contact when he already knows that he can see through genjutsu (as you even stated)? He doesn't have any intel on Tsukiyomi, so there is no reason to take this extreme amount of procaution to avoid something that he thinks the Byakugan can see through. Either way, the closing eye tactic doesn't even work. Unlike DSM Kabuto, who competely
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and relies solely on his
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, Hiashi still relies on his vision; and thus wouldn't be immune to a visual genjutsu such as Tsukiyomi. Just like Killer Bee sees through his dark glasses, but still got caught by visual genjutsu twice; Hiashi sees through his eyelids the same way. There is literally no difference between the two. Killer Bee covers his eyes with dark shades, Hiashi covers his eyes with his eyelids. Neither of which block their eyesight, nor block genjutsu/chakra.
You've failed to properly counter practically everything.
I already countered any and all shunshin attempts in the beginning of my post. But will note that Itachi is no where near Susanoo arrow nor would it matter if he was. Seeing as The byakugan was able to help neji react to something that is able to cross 100 meters of land (with tree's in the way) with in a second or two! And ofc Hiashi was able to track something beyond any speed feat (bar 8th gate and SO6P related beings) displayed in the manga. And ofc Hiashi is able to move his feet in place faster then Itachi can Body flicker (will explain later).
You only established that Hiashi has the ability to see the chakra build up for shunshin, which doesn't mean much seeing as Neji was alarmed by Kidomaru's shunshin [
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]. The chakra build up takes a split second for most shunshins. So you didn't counter it. My premise entailed Hiashi being cought off guard by a sudden flock of crows appearing in result of dispersing a Karasu Bunshin, which you ignored. If it can catch Hebi Sasuke and DSM Kabuto off guard and distract them, then it can do the very same to Hiashi. Never said it was a straight up blitz.
I provided manga examples as to why I believe Itachi is nigh susano'o arrow speed, your word doesn't disprove of that. @ Bold, what are you even talking about bruh? Neji reacted by literally a few centimeters, that is nothing to brag about. Kidomaru was able to track and accurately alter it's trajectory in all different directions with pinpoint accuracy the entire time it was in motion. That shouldn't be used as an example as to why Itachi's shunshin is inadequate here, unless you're implying to me that Neji and Kidomaru can do much better against it then Killer Bee and Nagato did. @ Underline, I have no idea what you're referring to, so please elaborate. Also, please do elaborate on how Hiashi can move his feet faster then Itachi can shunshin from 25 meters, which Bee failed to track twice, which is faster then Nagato's comprehension of his vision being blocked, and what Kakashi and Danzo can't even physically react to. I would love to hear how Hiashi's movement speed trumps all this, despite the fact that he couldn't do a single thing to save his daughter from getting skewered 5-10 meters away [
Databook 4 said they dance in unison on the battlefield, which implies they are around the same speed. The outdated databook score reinforces that as well.
After he deflected the might of the juubi and it was a super fast pinpoint attack? That not even the rest of the ninjas there could intercept bar gate users? (bare in mind they weren't the only ninjas protecting naruto. Neji was simply the only one aware (byakugan) and fast enough to save them).
The bottom line is, Hiashi was unable to do anything. Despite seeing it beforehand with the Byakugan, Hiashi, Hinata, and Neji did not have enough time to initiate any of their techniques, because it was too fast. The best Neji and Hinata could do was jump in front of it, while Hiashi did absolutely nothing but watch it all go down from 5-10 meters away. He couldn't do a single thing, even knowing his daughter was about to die; which tells me his reaction and movement speed isn't anything to worry about for Itachi. Also further proves that it isn't impossible to trump a Hyuga with sheer speed and consecutive attacks.
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Susano'o.
Not that I even feel slightly pressured to use this, but I might as well bring it up now, seeing as we're only doing 3 posts right?
Susano'o: Uchihas clear trump over the Hyuga - offensively and defensively. Despite the Hyugas ability to destroy chakra, it isn't going to be very effective against this huge humanoid. That is because it takes time for them to first actively insert and invade the opposing chakra in order to progressively destroy it. As seen
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, Neji comments on how strong the jutsu is, and then begins inserting his chakra into the webs. It wasn't until 12 whole pages later that Neji was able to break out of the cacoon, which is evident by him thanking Naruto for buying him time [
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], and then he proceeds to explain how it was accomplished. Obviously, this is Hiashi we're talking about, but at the same time, the construct of chakra he is opposing is the susano'o. It should be fairly obvious that he isn't destroying it very quickly, and neither will he get the chance to do so either.
Itachi was capable of activating it against an attack that travels at
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. Meaning, it can be activated at any given moment to help defend him against any and all Hiashi's attacks if needed. That, added to the fact that it's arms can move far faster then DSM Kabuto's striking speed [
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]-[
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] (Also among others like Danzo [
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]) completely destroys Hiashi's hopes and dreams of ever getting the chance to completely destroy it with his Juken. It's activation is instant, and it's striking speed is
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.
Now that I've established why Hiashi would never get the amount of time to destroy it via physical contact of his Juken, I suppose his only other option would be to air palm. However, I have no reason to believe it would accomplish anything other then push Itachi's susano'o back. Just like the other Bijuu, the Juubi is a monsterous formation of chakra [
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], and the only thing air palm managed to do is push it back. It didn't destroy it, and it didn't stop it from using chakra. And the same thing applies to when it was used against Kisame. All it managed to do is push him back. So based on both manga examples, it doesn't have anything suggesting that it'll bypass Susano'o's defenses and hit Itachi. Regardless, Itachi can
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, in adittion to the sharingans precog predicting it, so he should have no problem avoiding it either way. Also, don't forget with my strategy, Itachi would have another bunshin set in place to counter strike while Hiashi attempts to air palm.
I'm still waiting on how you're going to prove to me how Hiashi will be able to use Kaiten before Itachi can shunshin, all while being caught off guard by a flock of crows... but let's just assume he somehow can. As I mentioned above, Itachi can instantly activate Susano'o. So upon seeing Hiashi attempting to Kaiten before he even does it, Itachi can simply activate Susano'o and easily smash through it. Just like all rotating structures, it's weakest point is in the middle (e.i. the eye of a tornado or hurricane). This even holds true in the manga as Kaiten was penetrated from the top middle:
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Thus, if Hiashi ever attempts to defend with Kaiten; Itachi will simply pulverize it, along with Hiashi.
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Inb4 Hiashi deflected the Jubi's arm; if we take a close look at the
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, you'll notice that the arm made contact directly inbetween both Neji's and Hiashi's Kaiten, which doubled the deflection power. That is completely different from deflecting something from directly on top and center of their individual Kaiten.
I almost feel bad tbh. So I'll just refrain from using both the god weapons to make this somewhat of a fair fight
