Baseless after baseless. Tobirama was always superior to that of Oro, but since Oro developed his jutsu, Tobirama's ET use is completely inferior. Not to mention part 1 Oro = part 2 as all of his feats, Itachi remembered them. So that means all his feat Oro had them in part 2 were already there in part 1. Plus Tobirama outright stated Oro decided to up the precsion this time then he didn't in part 1.
What the hell are you talking about? Who said that it's determinant on
strength of the user? Lol. Nice waste of my time kiddo. Nice waste of my time. Why do I even bother arguing with you?
Baseless and my thread shows this, even of that nitpicking from one character, Hashirama.
I've addressed your thread. If you are going to moan about "baseless" assumptions, then concede and don't reply. Only an idiot would try to assert that Part 1 Hashirama's Mokuton=Part 2 Hashirama's Mokuton.
Oh wait, look who I'm arguing with.
I claim whats base on the manga, while your claim end with no basis that supports it. So yes the jutsus that could be used were at the same strength. Your just nitpicking Hashirama's scaling.
Except they weren't. Addressed. Repeating a defeated argument isn't going to make fairies fly out of your ass, and warp reality so that you make sense. The fact you don't even know how to do a simple size comparison is pretty hilarious in itself.
It doesnt match because your nitpicking the details that were irrelevant. I was fully aware that the tendrils are smaller then part 2 Mokuton. My premise is base on the base board, since tendrils were always the smallest part and could always wrap up a human, even for part 2[
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]. The whole point was to show how close it was regardless. Not just Hashirama, but Tobirama. This is a clear retcon.
Listen pal. Let me tell you why your comparison is idiotic. Both Mokuton being able to wrap up a human doesn't mean shit when you can clearly show that they are the same size.
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Anyone who hasn't come here with the agenda of downplaying Hashirama so bad that they make themselves look like a fool would know that these two jutsu are COMPLETELY different when it comes to size and scale. The tip of the branches is what wrapped Hiruzen up. Compare those to the tips of the branches Madara uses. No comparison. Madara's are larger, by far. The middle of the branch, it is larger than Madara. The middle of the branch in Part 1, not even larger than Hiruzen, who is smaller than Madara. (Comparing the width of the branch to the height of the people btw)
Yet somehow they are the same scale?
Those Edo Zombies had their physical abilities downgraded, yet somehow their jutsu are the same? Why the hell are you even trying to make it seem like it's the same as Shoten? Shoten is weaker because of chakra amount, that's it. Edo Tensei zombies (for some) are weaker because they weren't brought back with enough power, not just chakra.
-Edo Madara and Alive Madara. Edo Madara's physical capabilities are inferior.
There is no retcon. You don't even have an argument. You've only made a terrible size comparison, and then thrown the usual "Part 2>Part 1 scale" argument and hoped that it'd carry your assertion to the finish line, but of course, it doesn't.
Base on what? We seen Deidara beat his sand speed so the comparison is not useless. Yea you did address it and I asked you why you think Hashirama could do to what Madara couldn't to Gaara? What makes the speed of breaches faster then Gaara's sand speed?
Once again, your inability to read fails you again. Deidara moving as fast as Gaara doesn't mean that he can get into the air as fast as Gaara. I literally just addressed this yet you reply with something completely irrelevant. He almost got killed by Sasuke trying to get in the air, Hashirama takes him apart. Stop comparing him to someone who can take flight with a single hand motion. It makes your argument look foolish.
@bold: Once again, learn to read.
Mokuton spawns at almost all ranges. One clap of the hands and Jukai Kotan or Kajukai Korin wraps Deidara up and crushes him to death. Even if he gets in the air, Mokuton can grow upwards like regular trees.
Not fully addressed. Then there's the fact that the whole forest spawned in literally a few seconds, and the branches weren't focused on Gaara as a target, so why in the world do you keep saying "Failed to do in canon"? Lmao. They grew out everywhere, and only hit the golem because he was right in front of Madara when it happened.
Then there's the fact that since Mokuton can grow like regular trees, he can just use those to reach Deidara in the air, box him in and slap him down, or just slap him down.
1. What kind of ABC logic are you using for your claim. First of all if Kakuzu futon encounter Naruto's attack then by far Kakuzu blows them to bits, not debatable. Second of all I never stated Kakuzu clears the whole field by the blast.
Assumption. I have no reason to believe Kakuzu's attack is as strong as a barrage of Kurama chakra enhanced Chou Oodama Rasengan. ABC logic? What in the hell are you talking about? The amount of power Naruto's attack put out was needed to stop it. Kakuzu doesn't have that power, so he dies. That simple. Whether or not he clears the whole thing is very relevant since the whole thing will be charging at him.
2. Base on what scaling? These
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in Kakuzu's location are about the same width, and arguably taller or same height, tall. Which consumed the length of 7-8 trees that are space in symmetrical. Plus the fact I never made the claim of hitting it all. Only the factors, in Kakuzu's space.
Height is irrelevant as the height of the Mokuton isn't what's going to get him killed. The width is piss poor compared to this. Please don't claim otherwise. I've already posted a scan of the area of the flower world. It dwarfs Madara's Katon, which dwarfs any jutsu Kakuzu has ever used.
3. What are split 30% of Mokuton clones going to do? Other then feint, the best feat shown was pushing back a summon size Juubi Minion.
They are going to use Hashirama's techniques.
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Quit it, nothing was matched, Naruto's won. Domu's best feat is being crushed underneath a Buijuu. Not to mention trying to call out Choji's move like his spike ball wont break Mokuton on contact. Keep talking.
If Naruto won, he would've plowed right through it and hit Madara. Jukai Kotan and Rasengan barrage hit each other, and they both stopped. Rasengan was gone, Mokuton was broken. That's a stalemate, or should I post a definition so you'll finally be able to get it.
A Jinchuuriki transformed into a Bijuu far smaller than what it regularly is. Not even a Perfect Jinchuuriki. Then there's the fact that the force of Jukai Kotan hitting a single target>>>>A single Bijuu's physical attack. Please don't make yourself look even dumber and claim otherwise.
I have no reason to believe Choju's spike ball attack would break Mokuton, let alone Jukai Kotan, on contact. Though when you are done ignoring arguments and making shit assumptions, I'll be over here.
Irrelevant to me since your making the claim on Hashirama's position. All I said what was implied in the manga/DB He lost because of Mokuton. Kakuzu escaped. Thats all I said, which is base on facts. The burdens on you to back your own claims, Lmao.
There is no claim of mine that needs to backed. A Hashirama who didn't go all out fought Kakuzu, and Kakuzu escaped. I said that Hashirama beat him w/o the need of his full power, which is obviously true unless you are dumb enough to tell me that he's as strong as Madara. That's the claim, that's the evidence. You replied with "He escaped Mokuton" as if it matters when Hashirama didn't go all out
Hashirama has no intel, so yes once he kills him whats he going to do? Be vigilant after his death? Hashirama chakra sense was never stated to be any good compare to his brother. For all we know he would need to turn it on and off in battle much like Minato. Regardless no evidence it will helps his reaction to someone standing a foot behind him, pulling a weapon, turn around and succeed before Danzo tags him. Same for forming a Mokuton to block and attack. Overrating Hashirama position here isnt working.
How many times will you use this weak ass argument? How many times will you use weak arguments period? :lol
1. That was when Hashirama was a kid.
2. Not good compared to Tobirama=/=Not good. Tobirama is a top tier sensor. Can Hashirama sense chakra? Yes he can. End of story pal.
3. When you are kneading chakra, as shown and stated by Tobirama, you can sense chakra.
Can Hashirama sense? Yes he can. Is he in battle using chakra? Yes he is. When Danzo appears behind him, he either claps his hand and blocks with Mokuton, or he counters with a weapon. You don't even have a real counter argument. All you have is "It'll happen cause I said so" and "Stop overrating Hashriama, boo hoo, wah wah"
-Matched Madara in CQC.
-Madara has reactions far surpassing the likes of MS Sasuke.
-MS Sasuke
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fast enough to Danzo's surprise attack, despite not being able to sense,
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A sensor with better reactions would obviously react much faster. In the time Sasuke turned around, Hashirama could easily evade, or even more easily clap his hands. Suggesting otherwise just makes you look like the Hashirama/Mokuton downgrading tool you aim to be every time he's involved in a match up.
Hashirama's position has jack shit to do with my argument. Feats do, and not the twisted version of feats you use.
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Since his strike speed would be as slow
Lmao. The wank for this dude's sealing jutsu is amazing. Sasuke used a Ninjutsu to break out of it. Ninjutsu being possible isn't debatable.
Your premise is using Mokuton first. Never claim of actually sucking Mokuton. I stated the pollen. Plus the fact even shows these beaches can crush something like Baku.
Meh, whatever. I've already addressed Baku anyway.
Baku has zero durability feats. No reason to believe it won't be crushed by a sea of branches that took up the whole battlefield and then some when Madara fought the Gokage. Then there's the fact that it can pierce, bind and crush. Either way, Baku is rendered useless.
Nope Pollens are in six locations, he just needs to take care of his location. Plus the fact that Danzo getting knock out is irrelevant, just give him a reason to spawn somewhere else.
What? Why would the pollen sit right near the flower it's being produced by? It'll spread with the air, all over the forest. Hence why the only good counter is to get rid of the flower, not the pollen. I suggest we re-read the Manga. Baku can suck up the pollen in his area all he wants. The rest will get him and his master, and the flower will just keep producing pollen until it's gone.
Baku sucking in the pollen is a dumb, pointless strategy. He falls asleep, and then the flower world still stands. Every time Danzo tries to fight, he gets knocked out cold. Unless he wipes out the forest, this goes on for a good 10 minutes until he dies.
You didn't address shit. Lmao.
My premise is base on the tendril as its the only parts that can attack a human.
No, it's not. The tendril and the whole damn branch can attack a human. What in the hell are you even talking about? When Danzo can slice up
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, then we can talk about this idiotic plan working.
Not to mention it can come right under him like it did to Hachibi. Cut this dumb strategy, it's for your own good.
Everything addressed. What are the clones going to do after the original cast the jutsu? If the pollen could effect the caster, what would clone factor in?
They are going to support with their own jutsu.
@bold:
1. Little reason to believe the pollen effects the caster.
2. The caster can control the pollen.
3. Hashirama (and clones) don't need to be in range of the pollen to hit them with his jutsu.
Sharingan has feats of stronger effect, since it does more then fool the eyes.
Irrelevant. They aren't the same. It's really that simple. Countering an illusion that makes certain events seem like they are reality has nothing to do with countering something that fools your vision.
By using his other senses he has shown excellent of using in the manga?
When you can prove that Kakuzu can perform in darkness as good as he can in regular conditions, then we can talk. Until then, all I see is another baseless assumption.
Whats flimsy is overrating the speed and durability of Mokuton to evaluate the match up.
Never once focused on Mokuton's speed alone. It's speed and it's area of effect are why Deidara dies a terrible death. Durability of Mokuton has jack shit to do with anything here. I suggest we hit the books and learn to read, properly.
Ok, yeah he mind as well kill him. Reverse Trigrams can factor in other useful things.
Not really.
