Does The Last movie debunk Narutos skill?

[Dantee]

Let's see.



Naruto even not tried break out genjutsu and not used Kurama for help= Sakura>Naruto Lol

Are you going to deny Sakuras skill? Sakura didn't need help to break out of genjutsu and Kurama was no where to be found once Naruto was placed in genjutsu.

The only logically explanation is kurama was sleeping.

That would make sense.

Perfect jins are immune to genjutsu. In the last plot required Naruto to see Hinata's dreams. He would be awakened by Kurama eventually anyway.

Mangafact:

Spoiler

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Bee solo'ed Itachi's genjutsu.

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Hostless Bijuu =/= PJ

Kurama didn't break out of anything and Sakura broke herself out n Naruto.

Manga facts: Perfect jin was controlled by Obito for years.

Danzo said Sasukes MS genjutsu was weak compared to Tsyukomi because it alters the perception of time. Against this Bee has no counter...

Spoiler

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Naruto told Bee that Tsyukomi was end game for them

Spoiler

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Naruto as a perfect jin lost to a genjutsu in the last and IT.

Half of this was addressed in my OP.

 

[Amazeballs]

Being a perfect Jin only allows the Bijuu/Jinchuuriki duo to break one another out of a Genjutsu that can ordinarily be broken. Some of the highest levels of Genjutsu require specific conditions to end; some can't even be resisted. For instance, Sasuke could not have ended the I.T. by himself; he required Bijuu Chakra (either from the Bijuu placed under his Genjutsu, or from Naruto's assistance). Similarly, there is no known way to end a Koto Amatsukami.

 

[TrollingSage]

Are you going to deny Sakuras skill? Sakura didn't need help to break out of genjutsu and Kurama was no where to be found once Naruto was placed in genjutsu.



That would make sense.



Kurama didn't break out of anything and Sakura broke herself out n Naruto.

Manga facts: Perfect jin was controlled by Obito for years.

Danzo said Sasukes MS genjutsu was weak compared to Tsyukomi because it alters the perception of time. Against this Bee has no counter...

Spoiler

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Naruto told Bee that Tsyukomi was end game for them

Spoiler

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Naruto as a perfect jin lost to a genjutsu in the last and IT.

Half of this was addressed in my OP.

Naruto also said Gaara's sand is the strongest defence in the entire NV. Should we just take his word for it? Furthermore, Naruto himself wasn't a perfect jin when he made that statement.
Also Yagura was never confirmed a perfect jin. Just putting that out there.

 

[LeSauce]

Yup. Shikamaru said that without Sakura they would be done for too.

That means Sakura>Naruto in genjutsu. Manga fact.

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[lndra]

Kishimoto said: "We tried to stay as canon as possible"

So there goes your thread.

 

[Dantee]

Being a perfect Jin only allows the Bijuu/Jinchuuriki duo to break one another out of a Genjutsu that can ordinarily be broken. Some of the highest levels of Genjutsu require specific conditions to end; some can't even be resisted. For instance, Sasuke could not have ended the I.T. by himself; he required Bijuu Chakra (either from the Bijuu placed under his Genjutsu, or from Naruto's assistance). Similarly, there is no known way to end a Koto Amatsukami.

I agree.

Naruto also said Gaara's sand is the strongest defence in the entire NV. Should we just take his word for it? Furthermore, Naruto himself wasn't a perfect jin when he made that statement.
Also Yagura was never confirmed a perfect jin. Just putting that out there.

Yagura was confirmed a perfect jin and the kages knew exactly what a perfect jin was if they had knowledge of Bee..

Yup. Shikamaru said that without Sakura they would be done for too.

That means Sakura>Naruto in genjutsu. Manga fact.

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Agreed. That's a definitive manga fact.

Kishimoto said: "We tried to stay as canon as possible"

So there goes your thread.

Sounds like it enforces the notion the Last was canon.

 

[lndra]

Sounds like it enforces the notion the Last was canon.

Well of course, the movie is canon, but Kishimoto inexplicably said that parts of the movie, they tried to stay as canon as possible. Which answers your confusion on the Genjutsu being able to work on Naruto.

Which is common sense if you actually saw the movie, because it was being used as development through Naruto. Though on the real sense, the Genjutsu did not work like a real one. It rather, put Naruto to sleep, and unlike how the Genjutsu affected Sakura, Sai, and Shikamaru. Naruto and Hinata's minds connected together the instant they were put in.

Second, Kurama nor Naruto tried to break out of this Genjutsu. Weirdly enough their were instances were Naruto's own chakra ran out, and the Kyuubi did not supply his chakra pool. Even though we know he was there -- The writers wrote him out, Kurama did not even contact Naruto through telepathic communication. Which is why him not breaking out of the Genjutsu through Kurama is not really strange, the writers did not feel a need to place Kurama or give him any dialogue in the story until the very end when he fought the Toneri statue.

As for Genjutsu working on Naruto, nothing should be able to tackle him. Only: Tsukuyomi, Koto Amatsukami, and Infinite Tsukuyomi. Which are proven inescapable, and almost impossible to stop. I would think a thread would be made for once, and I wouldn't mind taking the mantle.

 

[Dantee]

Well of course, the movie is canon, but Kishimoto inexplicably said that parts of the movie, they tried to stay as canon as possible. Which answers your confusion on the Genjutsu being able to work on Naruto.

Which is common sense if you actually saw the movie, because it was being used as development through Naruto. Though on the real sense, the Genjutsu did not work like a real one. It rather, put Naruto to sleep, and unlike how the Genjutsu affected Sakura, Sai, and Shikamaru. Naruto and Hinata's minds connected together the instant they were put in.

Second, Kurama nor Naruto tried to break out of this Genjutsu. Weirdly enough their were instances were Naruto's own chakra ran out, and the Kyuubi did not supply his chakra pool. Even though we know he was there -- The writers wrote him out, Kurama did not even contact Naruto through telepathic communication. Which is why him not breaking out of the Genjutsu through Kurama is not really strange, the writers did not feel a need to place Kurama or give him any dialogue in the story until the very end when he fought the Toneri statue.

As for Genjutsu working on Naruto, nothing should be able to tackle him. Only: Tsukuyomi, Koto Amatsukami, and Infinite Tsukuyomi. Which are proven inescapable, and almost impossible to stop. I would think a thread would be made for once, and I wouldn't mind taking the mantle.

I should first let you know I didn't base my conclusion on Naruto just being placed in a genjutsu in the Last as the title suggests. I also used the war arc and statements in the manga that show perfect jins have always been suspected to powerful genjutsus. Since Naruto was also caught in a genjutsu in the move it was more like icing on the cake rather than the cake of the argument itself.

You can use the excuses if you want but it doesn't take away from the summerization this thread. Naruto fortei in genjutsu has always been pretty weak and the fact Kishi never showed him break through 1 leads to me believe it was always a major weakpoint of his.

Furthermore if the Last isn't canon then Kishi should have just put it out so. The fact he said they tried their best to make it canon that means for the most part the movie should be taken as a canon event. Fans can't really decipher want they choose to be canon. Especially Naruto being unable to break out of a powerful genjutsu doesn't contradict things that happened in the manga.

If you feel the need to make a thread about it then by all means go ahead.

 

[LeSauce]

Well of course, the movie is canon, but Kishimoto inexplicably said that parts of the movie, they tried to stay as canon as possible. Which answers your confusion on the Genjutsu being able to work on Naruto.

Which is common sense if you actually saw the movie, because it was being used as development through Naruto. Though on the real sense, the Genjutsu did not work like a real one. It rather, put Naruto to sleep, and unlike how the Genjutsu affected Sakura, Sai, and Shikamaru. Naruto and Hinata's minds connected together the instant they were put in.

Second, Kurama nor Naruto tried to break out of this Genjutsu. Weirdly enough their were instances were Naruto's own chakra ran out, and the Kyuubi did not supply his chakra pool. Even though we know he was there -- The writers wrote him out, Kurama did not even contact Naruto through telepathic communication. Which is why him not breaking out of the Genjutsu through Kurama is not really strange, the writers did not feel a need to place Kurama or give him any dialogue in the story until the very end when he fought the Toneri statue.

As for Genjutsu working on Naruto, nothing should be able to tackle him. Only: Tsukuyomi, Koto Amatsukami, and Infinite Tsukuyomi. Which are proven inescapable, and almost impossible to stop. I would think a thread would be made for once, and I wouldn't mind taking the mantle.

Lol, the denial.

Now we can pick and choose what's canon and what's not.

 

[Nagi]

Well of course, the movie is canon, but Kishimoto inexplicably said that parts of the movie, they tried to stay as canon as possible. Which answers your confusion on the Genjutsu being able to work on Naruto.

Which is common sense if you actually saw the movie, because it was being used as development through Naruto. Though on the real sense, the Genjutsu did not work like a real one. It rather, put Naruto to sleep, and unlike how the Genjutsu affected Sakura, Sai, and Shikamaru. Naruto and Hinata's minds connected together the instant they were put in.

Second, Kurama nor Naruto tried to break out of this Genjutsu. Weirdly enough their were instances were Naruto's own chakra ran out, and the Kyuubi did not supply his chakra pool. Even though we know he was there -- The writers wrote him out, Kurama did not even contact Naruto through telepathic communication. Which is why him not breaking out of the Genjutsu through Kurama is not really strange, the writers did not feel a need to place Kurama or give him any dialogue in the story until the very end when he fought the Toneri statue.

As for Genjutsu working on Naruto, nothing should be able to tackle him. Only: Tsukuyomi, Koto Amatsukami, and Infinite Tsukuyomi. Which are proven inescapable, and almost impossible to stop. I would think a thread would be made for once, and I wouldn't mind taking the mantle.

That avatar picture is so official. Got that Tokyo ghoul feel to it.

 

[Dragon Master]

The Last is 50% canon and %50 filler. This movie has filler plots (just like 6 Years Old Naruto mastered Shadow Clone).

Kurama can't help Naruto break genjutsu, because of minds connection (Naruto and Hinata).
Three Words: Plot No Jutsu

Naruto didn't lose RSM, because they started working in 2012 before Manga showed RSM Naruto.

 

[lndra]

I should first let you know I didn't base my conclusion on Naruto just being placed in a genjutsu in the Last as the title suggests. I also used the war arc and statements in the manga that show perfect jins have always been suspected to powerful genjutsus. Since Naruto was also caught in a genjutsu in the move it was more like icing on the cake rather than the cake of the argument itself.

You can use the excuses if you want but it doesn't take away from the summerization this thread. Naruto fortei in genjutsu has always been pretty weak and the fact Kishi never showed him break through 1 leads to me believe it was always a major weakpoint of his.

Furthermore if the Last isn't canon then Kishi should have just put it out so. The fact he said they tried their best to make it canon that means for the most part the movie should be taken as a canon event. Fans can't really decipher want they choose to be canon. Especially Naruto being unable to break out of a powerful genjutsu doesn't contradict things that happened in the manga.

If you feel the need to make a thread about it then by all means go ahead.

I did read the entire thread - But it lacked some things that would qualify it to be true, especially on the synopsis on why this would be true, and why it would not. Though what you say is true, Perfect Jinchuriki were never immune to Genjutsu, they are just susceptible to it like everybody else, but unlike everybody else ... They can break out of most Genjutsu, especially when they are not extremely potent in the form of Tsukuyomi, IT, and KA.

Naruto has never been weak against Genjutsu - He has only fought one canon Genjutsu user which was Itachi Uchiha, and naming him on some mediocre level is quite pitiful. Naruto's chakra control feats in the beginning of Shippuden did not put him on any near level of being able to break out of high leveled Genjutsu techniques, especially when he had not created the FRS, nor mastered Sage Mode. Which advanced his shape manipulation and chakra control onto tiers above what a Kage could do by and past the War Arc.

Lastly, excpitically the fact that Kishimoto stated that the movie was partially canon, does not have to be discussed on what you think is true, or what I think is true. He said what needed to be said for people who watch the movie: "That we tried our best to keeps things as canon as possible" -- There really isn't much else for conversation on this one. People might have witnessed things that they did not feel was correct through the manga, and implied a new different perception through the movie. Which in turns causes this conflict over where the movie caused for people who wanted it to stay true to Kishimoto's work.

I feel like there needs to be a thread which states why this is false completely, because it gets over used a lot and by the same very people who use it today, and I will.

 

[SenseiSama]

- Agreed Sakura has better genjutsu feats

- Nice thread

- 10/10

- All I see are facts

- Itachi solos

 

[the entire forum]

Perfect Jins are not immune to Genjutsu. What a load of garbage Naruto fans cook up on regular basis, when Yagura was controlled for years.

thread.....

 

[Narutrol]

Perfect Jins are not immune to Genjutsu. What a load of garbage Naruto fans cook up on regular basis, when Yagura was controlled for years.

That means sharingan genjutsu solo perfect jin. I wonder how about rinnegan 6 tomes...

 

[Dantee]

I did read the entire thread - But it lacked some things that would qualify it to be true, especially on the synopsis on why this would be true, and why it would not. Though what you say is true, Perfect Jinchuriki were never immune to Genjutsu, they are just susceptible to it like everybody else, but unlike everybody else ... They can break out of most Genjutsu, especially when they are not extremely potent in the form of Tsukuyomi, IT, and KA.

Naruto has never been weak against Genjutsu - He has only fought one canon Genjutsu user which was Itachi Uchiha, and naming him on some mediocre level is quite pitiful. Naruto's chakra control feats in the beginning of Shippuden did not put him on any near level of being able to break out of high leveled Genjutsu techniques, especially when he had not created the FRS, nor mastered Sage Mode. Which advanced his shape manipulation and chakra control onto tiers above what a Kage could do by and past the War Arc.

Lastly, excpitically the fact that Kishimoto stated that the movie was partially canon, does not have to be discussed on what you think is true, or what I think is true. He said what needed to be said for people who watch the movie: "That we tried our best to keeps things as canon as possible" -- There really isn't much else for conversation on this one. People might have witnessed things that they did not feel was correct through the manga, and implied a new different perception through the movie. Which in turns causes this conflict over where the movie caused for people who wanted it to stay true to Kishimoto's work.

I feel like there needs to be a thread which states why this is false completely, because it gets over used a lot and by the same very people who use it today, and I will.

I agree perfect jins can break out most genjutsus normal people couldn't. Yet they've been shown to be caught in ones so it only furthers backs up the point of this thread.

"We tried to keep it as canon as possible".

Sounds like you will end choosing what you want to be canon and what you won't. Before you do that consider this. Naruto was never a genjutsu user and his skills at breaking one were mediocre at best. There is no need for you or anyone to give Naruto the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't shown any type of feats pertaining to fighting genjutsu or powerful ones.

Even with rikudou power added he failed against IT and in genjutsu in the last so again no need for me to believe the Last contradicts anything here.

 

[Narutrol]

I made a thread about how sakura solo naruto in genjutsu, it got selected in 10 seconds. People (mod too) hate the fact that naruto is inferior even he's a perfect jin

 

[lndra]

I agree perfect jins can break out most genjutsus normal people couldn't. Yet they've been shown to be caught in ones so it only furthers backs up the point of this thread.

"We tried to keep it as canon as possible".

Sounds like you will end choosing what you want to be canon and what you won't. Before you do that consider this. Naruto was never a genjutsu user and his skills at breaking one were mediocre at best. There is no need for you or anyone to give Naruto the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't shown any type of feats pertaining to fighting genjutsu or powerful ones.

Even with rikudou power added he failed against IT and in genjutsu in the last so again no need for me to believe the Last contradicts anything here.

Agreed.

Naruto has only a few Genjutsu feats, and that was back at the Gaara retrieval arc. The only one before that was when Itachi casted (from my memory I could be wrong) KA or Tsukuyomi on him, which removed the crow from his "throat" that he placed a few arcs before. Naming that Naruto was "weak" against Genjutsu is a false speculation, Naruto was weak against Itachi because he was such an advanced Genjutsu user and he was not skilled enough to take him. I can't possibly believe how anyone could ever name Naruto to be weak against Genjutsu now with his chakra control.

The only way to stop the Infinite Tskuyomi is through the Rinnegan, there is no contradiction there. That's literally the only way to stop it. Similar to how the only way to stop Tsukuyomi is by having Uchiha blood (through brothers/sisters I would assume).

 

[Narutrol]

Agreed.

Naruto has only a few Genjutsu feats, and that was back at the Gaara retrieval arc. The only one before that was when Itachi casted (from my memory I could be wrong) KA or Tsukuyomi on him, which removed the crow from his "throat" that he placed a few arcs before. Naming that Naruto was "weak" against Genjutsu is a false speculation, Naruto was weak against Itachi because he was such an advanced Genjutsu user and he was not skilled enough to take him. I can't possibly believe how anyone could ever name Naruto to be weak against Genjutsu now with his chakra control.

The only way to stop the Infinite Tskuyomi is through the Rinnegan, there is no contradiction there. That's literally the only way to stop it. Similar to how the only way to stop Tsukuyomi is by having Uchiha blood (through brothers/sisters I would assume).

Kakashi said only sharingan can fight against another sharingan

Itachi didn't say only uchihas can break out of his genjutsu

 

[lndra]

Kakashi said only sharingan can fight against another sharingan

Itachi didn't say only uchihas can break out of his genjutsu

He did. Only Sasuke can break out of Tsukuyomi, because they share the same blood (not just being Uchiha's)