[Discussion] Ace vs zoro

Tomato God

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Enel gets one shotted. Zoro's swords are metal so Croc can't dry them out.
Zoro has no counter for advent of thunder nor is Enel lightnight that easy to dodge. If we are bringing up swords btw zoros swords are conductors meaning if enel just flies up into the air and spans lightning his lightning will follow zoros swords till he dies.

Also why doesn't crocs power effect metal? Scan?
 

KCN

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He fought Pica for like 12 chapters, that's hardly a oneshot!

Monet isn't that strong

Can't believe you actually used fodder in your argument as if Ace wouldn't be able to defeat them
You just completely missed my point. Zoro hasn't been close to going all out yet Ace is hardly above him. When we do see Zoro's true post TS ability he'll comfortably be above Ace.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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Zoro has no counter for advent of thunder nor is Enel lightnight that easy to dodge. If we are bringing up swords btw zoros swords are conductors meaning if enel just flies up into the air and spans lightning his lightning will follow zoros swords till he dies.

Also why doesn't crocs power effect metal? Scan?
360 pound cannon. I already showed you before that Croc's powers don't work on metal. Also, why would Zoro let Croc touch his swords?
 

24 12 11 to troll

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You just completely missed my point. Zoro hasn't been close to going all out yet Ace is hardly above him. When we do see Zoro's true post TS ability he'll comfortably be above Ace.
Since we're only just seeing Luffy's full PTS potential, and he's meant to be comparable to Ace, Zoro won't surpass Ace when we see him going all out, likewise with Sanji, the same thing applies.

All the evidence you've used is BS. Zoro was off panel fighting with Pica for like 10 chapters, had a 1 on 1 sword duel for one before making the giant golem and basically using the Island as a whole, he then spent five or six chapters of fighting Picas attacks before he finally made another golem and headed for the plateau. Even then it took Zoro three more attacks to cut that down and then another one to defeat Pica's real body. Basically, Zoro one thousand shotted. Not one shotted.

Why would fodder even be relevant? The fact you have to use fodder, nameless and irrelevant characters in an argument shows just how ineffectual and poor your argument is.
 

KCN

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Since we're only just seeing Luffy's full PTS potential, and he's meant to be comparable to Ace, Zoro won't surpass Ace when we see him going all out, likewise with Sanji, the same thing applies.

All the evidence you've used is BS. Zoro was off panel fighting with Pica for like 10 chapters, had a 1 on 1 sword duel for one before making the giant golem and basically using the Island as a whole, he then spent five or six chapters of fighting Picas attacks before he finally made another golem and headed for the plateau. Even then it took Zoro three more attacks to cut that down and then another one to defeat Pica's real body. Basically, Zoro one thousand shotted. Not one shotted.

Why would fodder even be relevant? The fact you have to use fodder, nameless and irrelevant characters in an argument shows just how ineffectual and poor your argument is.
Meant to be comparable to Ace? In what regard? Ace is by no means Luffy's barrier to overcome. That would be Roger. Don't try finding links that aren't there.

Off panel fighting Pica, but was there any indication that Zoro was hurt, overwhelmed or even exerted? No, absolutely none. Zoro fodderising Pica's attacks is credit to Zoro, not Pica. Especially as Pica has the benefit of location allowing him to merge and whip out attacks by the buttload. Even then, Zoro comfortably blocked any advances he made towards him and once he bypassed his defence, Pica got slumped. Zoro wasn't even close to going all out, which is my point. And here you are using time frame as an excuse, despite Pica having advantages and Zoro having to beat his defence before beating Pica. That is by no means an indication of difficulty level. When I say one shot, I was talking about his final strike.

Keep crying. You're just nitpicking at anything to support what little argument you have. Zoro hasn't had to leave his comfort zone yet which is clear to anyone who reads the manga.
 

Bogard

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Ace will win high difficulty, but Zoro will surpass Ace by the Wano arc. Funnily enough it could coincidate with the moment he would learn Kinemon's fire cutting ability, something that could greatly counter Ace's fire
 

24 12 11 to troll

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Meant to be comparable to Ace? In what regard? Ace is by no means Luffy's barrier to overcome. That would be Roger. Don't try finding links that aren't there.

Off panel fighting Pica, but was there any indication that Zoro was hurt, overwhelmed or even exerted? No, absolutely none. Zoro fodderising Pica's attacks is credit to Zoro, not Pica. Especially as Pica has the benefit of location allowing him to merge and whip out attacks by the buttload. Even then, Zoro comfortably blocked any advances he made towards him and once he bypassed his defence, Pica got slumped. Zoro wasn't even close to going all out, which is my point. And here you are using time frame as an excuse, despite Pica having advantages and Zoro having to beat his defence before beating Pica. That is by no means an indication of difficulty level. When I say one shot, I was talking about his final strike.

Keep crying. You're just nitpicking at anything to support what little argument you have. Zoro hasn't had to leave his comfort zone yet which is clear to anyone who reads the manga.
Since Ace was his senior, three years older than him. Luffy being comparable to his pre death state is logical after a two year timeskip. If he's not comparable to Ace when a year younger then his potential wouldn't be any higher than his, or anyone elses for that matter. If he's to be Pirate King he should be around a year ahead of Ace. Especially after foreshadowing that may or may not show Luffy's next bounty will be more or less similar to Aces bounty. I know bounties aren't a direct portrayal of strength but they are a good indicator.

That's not my point. My point is Zoro struggled to beat Pica. It's not a one shot and not worth ejaculating over.

I'm nitpicking because that's how debates work. If you're uncomfortable with it then either don't post on here, at all, or concede defeat. Zoro had trouble with Pica, how is that not outside his comfort zone?
 

KCN

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Since Ace was his senior, three years older than him. Luffy being comparable to his pre death state is logical after a two year timeskip. If he's not comparable to Ace when a year younger then his potential wouldn't be any higher than his, or anyone elses for that matter. If he's to be Pirate King he should be around a year ahead of Ace. Especially after foreshadowing that may or may not show Luffy's next bounty will be more or less similar to Aces bounty. I know bounties aren't a direct portrayal of strength but they are a good indicator.

That's not my point. My point is Zoro struggled to beat Pica. It's not a one shot and not worth ejaculating over.

I'm nitpicking because that's how debates work. If you're uncomfortable with it then either don't post on here, at all, or concede defeat. Zoro had trouble with Pica, how is that not outside his comfort zone?
No, not really. Age is the most irrelevant thing when discussing One piece. Just because they're now similar in age you shouldn't use that as a direct indicator as to how strong they are; the fact of the matter is Luffy just spent two years training with the Pirate Kings firstmate. That puts Luffy beyond his years in terms of how strong he should be. Luffy with G4 and Haki mastery comfortably puts him over anything we've seen Ace do, and by some margin. And no, bounties aren't a good indicator. Moriah had one of the highest bounties as a Supernova if I recall but he was weak af. Also Robin's bounty at age 9 or whatever etc..

Concession accepted. Zoro slowly but comfortably dicing away at Pica's defence and Pica himself /= Zoro struggling.

Wasn't aware I was uncomfortable with it. Though I can sense some frustration over your way.
 

Bogard

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I just don't see how Ace wins by feats. Zoro has better reaction speed and has an offense on par with Ace's.
How do you rate the difference in their reaction speed when unlike Zoro, Ace always faced top tier characters? He fought Jinbe for 5 days(something that suggest equivalent base stats), could equally match Kuzan's attack and even beat Akainu on his way to Luffy despite being severely injured
 

Uzumaki Macho

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How do you rate the difference in their reaction speed when unlike Zoro, Ace always faced top tier characters? He fought Jinbe for 5 days(something that suggest equivalent base stats), could equally match Kuzan's attack and even beat Akainu on his way to Luffy despite being severely injured
Akainu has no speed feats though and we don't even know how strong of an attack Kuzan's attack was, not to mention the elemental advantage Ace had, and then there's the fact that Zoro also countered an admiral's attack before (Fujitora's gravity).
 

24 12 11 to troll

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No, not really. Age is the most irrelevant thing when discussing One piece. Just because they're now similar in age you shouldn't use that as a direct indicator as to how strong they are; the fact of the matter is Luffy just spent two years training with the Pirate Kings firstmate. That puts Luffy beyond his years in terms of how strong he should be. Luffy with G4 and Haki mastery comfortably puts him over anything we've seen Ace do, and by some margin. And no, bounties aren't a good indicator. Moriah had one of the highest bounties as a Supernova if I recall but he was weak af. Also Robin's bounty at age 9 or whatever etc..

Concession accepted. Zoro slowly but comfortably dicing away at Pica's defence and Pica himself /= Zoro struggling.

Wasn't aware I was uncomfortable with it. Though I can sense some frustration over your way.
Age is used to scale development. If Ace had the potential to be the Pirate King, as judged by Whitebeard, then surely Luffy should too at a similar age be just as/slightly more powerful.

We haven't seen Ace do much. He's only ever been shown fighting Smoker halfheartedly (off panel), Blackbeard (off panel) and Sakazuki. If you judge based upon what we've seen of Ace you're gravely mistaken. Although, him tying with Jinbe when he was 20 is impressive. Since Jinbe is of a similar level to Zoro, surely Ace developed to be stronger than that as there was two years between then and the war.

Bounties of Shichibukai get frozen when they gain their status. This makes their bounties completely irrelevant.

Bounties measure the threat somebody poses. Whether that be strength (Ace, Luffy etc.) or knowledge (Robin). You can't compare the two so simply.

Not exactly dicing away at his defence is he, since his defence is everything around him
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What I was saying is Zoro took a long time to defeat Pica. That's his struggle. It was a battle of attrition.
 

KCN

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Age is used to scale development. If Ace had the potential to be the Pirate King, as judged by Whitebeard, then surely Luffy should too at a similar age be just as/slightly more powerful.

We haven't seen Ace do much. He's only ever been shown fighting Smoker halfheartedly (off panel), Blackbeard (off panel) and Sakazuki. If you judge based upon what we've seen of Ace you're gravely mistaken. Although, him tying with Jinbe when he was 20 is impressive. Since Jinbe is of a similar level to Zoro, surely Ace developed to be stronger than that as there was two years between then and the war.

Bounties of Shichibukai get frozen when they gain their status. This makes their bounties completely irrelevant.

Bounties measure the threat somebody poses. Whether that be strength (Ace, Luffy etc.) or knowledge (Robin). You can't compare the two so simply.

Not exactly dicing away at his defence is he, since his defence is everything around him
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What I was saying is Zoro took a long time to defeat Pica. That's his struggle. It was a battle of attrition.
Potential is an endless concept especially if we talk about something like becoming the PK. One could become the PK at age 65. People get stronger at different times and grow at different times, and by Luffy training extensively with Rayleigh he jumped that age/strength foundation you've just come up with exponentially.

Then what am I supposed to do? Ace is dead. We're not going to see anymore from him so what I can do is make judgements based on what we've seen. And Ace gets outclassed; Blackbeard nearly broke his neck with one strike. An armament flurry from G2 Luffy would do him bad. Not to mention G4 etc.

Moriah had his bounty frozen as well though, and it was still higher than everyone else's and unless you can prove that others joined shichibukai before him then yeah.

Exactly. Someone can have a high bounty based off knowledge. That alone eliminates your proposition of strength equating bounty. While you have a point in that it can be used as a slight measurement lets not use that to compare Ace and Luffy. For all we know Ace being Roger's son had a massive influence on that, further jumping up via his affiliation with the worlds strongest man. We just don't know.

My point exactly. Pica had such a massive advantage in location and the only thing he had on Zoro is knowledge, yet offensively Pica could do nothing to Zoro. All he could do is merge/hide and have his attack countered. That by no means he's giving Zoro a hard time, it just means by that point Zoro hadn't figured him out yet. The moment he did, you saw what happened.

No. Ace vs Jinbe is a battle of attrition. Zoro wasn't remotely tired or weakened Lol what are you even saying. Zoro just needed to figure his opponent out who had the hometown advantage complementing his power. That's completely normal.
 

Dęvîa Puęrî

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I believe ace but extreme diff ... Pica was able to no prob keep distance between himself and zoro without tht king guy he would not have gotten close

If ace keeps battle long distance then he would win if he fights close range I believe zoro fully outmqtches him by noticble margin and will win

But it can go extreme diff
 

kyubbi sagemode

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Zoro has no counter for advent of thunder nor is Enel lightnight that easy to dodge. If we are bringing up swords btw zoros swords are conductors meaning if enel just flies up into the air and spans lightning his lightning will follow zoros swords till he dies.

Also why doesn't crocs power effect metal? Scan?
I think Zoro could probably dodge enels attacks now I mean pre Ts he was dodging point blank attacks from kuma and pacifists lasers while he was injured. The lazers were pointed out to be really fast. Also if he covers all his swords with haki wouldn't it counter Enels lighting. By feats I don't see any way enel would best him..
 
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