[Discussion] Luffy and Zoro vs Doflamingo and Vergo

[skygoku]

People need to realise this. Luffy has an advantage over Doflamingo at the moment. This isn't Doflamingo at his strongest. I have my suspicion that Law can defeat Luffy (up to G3) with medium difficulty and G4 puts him above Law, but only just.

The fact Doffy low diffed Luffy earlier and low diffed Law thrice in the same arc, WITH immense injuries goes to show just how much stronger he is in comparison to Law and Luffy

No way Law beat luffy mid diff even before gear 4

 

[Punk Hazard]

It probably does weaken him. It limits his use of strings and probably takes up stamina

Why would that be the case, especially when there's been no indication of that?

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

No way Law beat luffy mid diff even before gear 4

Yeah, because Luffy would be so far ahead of his rivals that they wouldn't be rivals. Great logic.

Why would that be the case, especially when there's been no indication of that?

It's just a hypothesis. He may have to remove the birdcage to continue fighting, we don't know what will happen. But it's unlikely that it has no effect on him.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah, because Luffy would be so far ahead of his rivals that they wouldn't be rivals. Great logic.


It's just a hypothesis. He may have to remove the birdcage to continue fighting, we don't know what will happen. But it's unlikely that it has no effect on him.

I highly doubt it. That'd be like saying if Magellan shoots poison onto you, the poison's existence will drain his stamina. Or that if Whitbeard launched a Quake at the earth, his stamina will drop for as long as the ground is shaking.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I highly doubt it. That'd be like saying if Magellan shoots poison onto you, the poison's existence will drain his stamina. Or that if Whitbeard launched a Quake at the earth, his stamina will drop for as long as the ground is shaking.

I'm sure producing a substance or object (E.g. Poison or String) would have some kind of effect, albeit tiny. But Birdcage is such a large scale.

 

[IminLovewithMAryj]

I'm sure producing a substance or object (E.g. Poison or String) would have some kind of effect, albeit tiny. But Birdcage is such a large scale.

Not to mention the fact that Birdcage is something that Doffy is actively controlling. To compare Magellan's poison and WB's quakes is a bit silly considering Birdcage is something that is, in some way shape or form, connected to doffy. Unlike the two aforementioned abilities that once released are independent from the user. The fact that the birdcage will disappear when he's beaten and that he can mentally control it with virtually no contact proves this. It's more than likely that it drains his stamina or has some sort of other drawback.

 

[skygoku]

Yeah, because Luffy would be so far ahead of his rivals that they wouldn't be rivals. Great logic.


It's just a hypothesis. He may have to remove the birdcage to continue fighting, we don't know what will happen. But it's unlikely that it has no effect on him.

Lol your logic is superb. Did I ever say he was so ahead of Law I just said Law didnt completely out class luffy before gear 4th

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

I highly doubt it. That'd be like saying if Magellan shoots poison onto you, the poison's existence will drain his stamina. Or that if Whitbeard launched a Quake at the earth, his stamina will drop for as long as the ground is shaking.

Really u dnt understand Doffy bird cage keeps shrinking the more damage and stamina he keeps shrinking/using .... It went down considerably during gamma knife and why would an attack like tht not drain someone it keeps going downbaccording to how much stamina Doffy is using if u look at it... Or do u just think it magically shrinks ...

 

[Punk Hazard]

Really u dnt understand Doffy bird cage keeps shrinking the more damage and stamina he keeps using .... It went down considerably during gamma knife and why would an attack like tht not drain someone it keeps going downbaccording to how much stamina Doffy is using if u look at it... Or do u just think it magically shrinks ...

No, I think Doffy can manually make it shrink. However, Devil Fruits have never been stated to drain stamina or physical strength aside from the Ope Ope no Mi. The fact that stamina-draining has been emphasized as a weakness to the OONM specifically(note that Law needed to tell Luffy that the OONM drains his energy, and Doffy spoke as though it happens specifically with the OONM, rather than speaking as though it's a general thing for DFs) shows that it's most likely using a DF doesn't inherently drain stamina. Doffy's DF draining his stamina to be used is nothing more than an assumption some fans have adopted as fact just because it's possible.

 

[WoldOfFingo]

It's really interesting how people mention Luffy even in Gear 4 is doing no damage to Doffy and Doffy is getting up like nothing happened (even tough not seeign any damage does not equal 'there is no damage done')
But that goes both ways, even pre G4 Luffy got up from all of Doffy's atacks, be them punches, kicks or slashes in the gut.
But ofcourse then they called it 'Doflamingo low diffed Luffy earlyer'
Double standards ..

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Lol your logic is superb. Did I ever say he was so ahead of Law I just said Law didnt completely out class luffy before gear 4th

He didn't completely outclass Luffy. But logically, Luffy's powerup puts him on a similar and slightly higher footing than Law, (and I do mean SLIGHT). Lets face it: if Law used Gamma Knife earlier he would've beaten Doflamingo in a similar fashion to how Luffy will.

If Luffy got a powerup it means he was behind Law.

 

[Love Cook]

People who say

it's zoro vs vergo and Luffy vs Doffy are wrong.

That is not how Doflamingo fights.

He is shown multiple times to quickly deal with dangerous situations by taking out others who might pose a threat for him later.

When he was busy fighting Sanji he targeted nami and co.
When he was fighting Law on green bit he went after Sunny.
When he was fighting Luffy he messed up Law

He also has string clones and his puppet technique. So it's not 2 vs 2. It could be 4 vs 1 If Doflamingo plays his cards right.

Zoro doesn't have the speed to keep up with doflamingo and Luffy. And as soon as Doffy notices that he will take advantage of that.

Besides after three Gear 4th attacks Doflamingo is still fine and counter attacking. Even after Law did most of the damage to him already.

A healthy Doflamingo would murder Luffy and Zoro when he has back-up from his right hand man. Besides Vergo is probably stronger than Pica so that would keep Zoro busy for a while.

 

[Anduril]

I am still not sure how doflamingo's parasite works.... I mean he could hold and control Jozu and Sanji but he has still not tried it on Luffy?

So I'll reserve my opinion on this.

 

[saw2097]

We have yet to see Doflamingo go all out or try, plus he took Law's gamma knife which messed him up more than G4 did atm.

I don't see how Gamma Knife would weaken his attacks and I certainly don't see how it makes it easier to send him flying across the island and through buildings.

And going all out is irrelevant if he can't even attack Luffy before he gets smacked through more buildings.

And for people saying Bird Cage is weakening Doflamingo, that would only weaken his ability to attack, it doesn't increase his body defense, Luffy would still slap him from one end of the island to the other.

 

[WoldOfFingo]

I don't see how Gamma Knife would weaken his attacks and I certainly don't see how it makes it easier to send him flying across the island and through buildings.

And for people saying Bird Cage is weakening Doflamingo, that would only weaken his ability to attack, it doesn't increase his body defense, Luffy would still slap him from one end of the island to the other.

Doflamingo is weakened but g4 still would triumph over full power Doffy in strength
He send him flying 500 meters even when he tried to block it.. that is no small distance.. if it were 10 meters then we could say Doffy at full power would block and hold his ground. People who think a 100% healthy Doffy could just block that are kidding themselves

 

[saw2097]

Doflamingo is weakened but g4 still would triumph over full power Doffy in strength
He send him flying 500 meters even when he tried to block it.. that is no small distance.. if it were 10 meters then we could say Doffy at full power would block and hold his ground. People who think a 100% healthy Doffy could just block that are kidding themselves

Exactly my point, something powerful enough to knock a person across an island and through buildings is going to send them flying regardless of if they have injured organs or not.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

People who say

it's zoro vs vergo and Luffy vs Doffy are wrong.

That is not how Doflamingo fights.

He is shown multiple times to quickly deal with dangerous situations by taking out others who might pose a threat for him later.

When he was busy fighting Sanji he targeted nami and co.
When he was fighting Law on green bit he went after Sunny.
When he was fighting Luffy he messed up Law

He also has string clones and his puppet technique. So it's not 2 vs 2. It could be 4 vs 1 If Doflamingo plays his cards right.

Zoro doesn't have the speed to keep up with doflamingo and Luffy. And as soon as Doffy notices that he will take advantage of that.

Besides after three Gear 4th attacks Doflamingo is still fine and counter attacking. Even after Law did most of the damage to him already.

A healthy Doflamingo would murder Luffy and Zoro when he has back-up from his right hand man. Besides Vergo is probably stronger than Pica so that would keep Zoro busy for a while.

Preach brother!

 

[Bogard]

People who say

it's zoro vs vergo and Luffy vs Doffy are wrong.

That is not how Doflamingo fights.

He is shown multiple times to quickly deal with dangerous situations by taking out others who might pose a threat for him later.

When he was busy fighting Sanji he targeted nami and co.
When he was fighting Law on green bit he went after Sunny.
When he was fighting Luffy he messed up Law

He also has string clones and his puppet technique. So it's not 2 vs 2. It could be 4 vs 1 If Doflamingo plays his cards right.

Zoro doesn't have the speed to keep up with doflamingo and Luffy. And as soon as Doffy notices that he will take advantage of that.

Besides after three Gear 4th attacks Doflamingo is still fine and counter attacking. Even after Law did most of the damage to him already.

A healthy Doflamingo would murder Luffy and Zoro when he has back-up from his right hand man. Besides Vergo is probably stronger than Pica so that would keep Zoro busy for a while.

I can agree somewhat, but you missed few things

- While Zoro doesn't have the speed to keep up with Doflamingo, he has the reaction and swordsmanship to do that. Law could hold his ground a little and Zoro is a better swordsman than him with better angles cover(3swords)

- Doflamingo still would have a hard time putting Zoro down. Zoro is an incredible tank(even pretimeskip, so let alone post-timeskip) and possess strong armament haki to boot and we see that it can be used to block his string ability(Law managed once) or even if the attack bypass the armor, it reduces damage considerably.

On the other side, Zoro possess strong attack power(it one shotted Doflamingo's strongest subordinate without Ashura), so if Zoro were to land hits, it would be ugly. Yes i know Doflamingo is an incredible tank himself for the reasons you presented, but he won't be unphased by those attacks either. In the end then, Doflamingo can't finish Zoro quickly. It would require him mid difficulty to put Zoro down with a combination of his superior agility, trickery and other string abilities.

By the time, Luffy himself can easily decide to dispatch Vergo while in gear4(the time Doflamingo will want to deal with Zoro) and thus quickly making the fight in a 2vs1 against in Luffy-Zoro favor

 

[Punk Hazard]

I don't see how Gamma Knife would weaken his attacks and I certainly don't see how it makes it easier to send him flying across the island and through buildings.

And going all out is irrelevant if he can't even attack Luffy before he gets smacked through more buildings.

And for people saying Bird Cage is weakening Doflamingo, that would only weaken his ability to attack, it doesn't increase his body defense, Luffy would still slap him from one end of the island to the other.

Much of Doflamingo's offensive ability is tied into his own physical strength. While the strings he creates may carry the same strength as a 100% Doffy, the force they carry due to his arm swinging them wouldn't be the same. It's almost the same principle as a lumberjack swinging an axe at a tree and then a little girl doing it; may be the same weapon as before, but the force behind it has decreased, decreasing it's effectiveness.

His punches and kicks are also gonna be decreased due to this. Damage stacking, which is the pain from Luffy's blows adding onto the pain he's feeling from the Gamma Knife, would also affect his endurance. Not to mention the fact that, though he pulled his organs back together, he didn't heal, as he himself stated. That means the physical damage that was dealt to his bod is still there. His body has become weaker due to the damage it has taken, which would cause his defenses to drop as well.

We've seen his reaction speed take a dip since now he can't notice a Gear 2 attack until it's at his chest, when he was able to handily counter Jet Attacks from before. Also, nothing indicates that G4 is faster than G2, just has a greater power output.

 

[saw2097]

I can agree somewhat, but you missed few things

- While Zoro doesn't have the speed to keep up with Doflamingo, he has the reaction and swordsmanship to do that. Law could hold his ground a little and Zoro is a better swordsman than him with better angles cover(3swords)

- Doflamingo still would have a hard time putting Zoro down. Zoro is an incredible tank(even pretimeskip, so let alone post-timeskip) and possess strong armament haki to boot and we see that it can be used to block his string ability(Law managed once) or even if the attack bypass the armor, it reduces damage considerably.

On the other side, Zoro possess strong attack power(it one shotted Doflamingo's strongest subordinate without Ashura), so if Zoro were to land hits, it would be ugly. Yes i know Doflamingo is an incredible tank himself for the reasons you presented, but he won't be unphased by those attacks either. In the end then, Doflamingo can't finish Zoro quickly. It would require him mid difficulty to put Zoro down with a combination of his superior agility, trickery and other string abilities.

By the time, Luffy himself can easily decide to dispatch Vergo while in gear4(the time Doflamingo will want to deal with Zoro) and thus quickly making the fight in a 2vs1 against in Luffy-Zoro favor

You know that didn't occur to me, but you are right.

Luffy can drop Vergo, and then G4 Luffy and Zorro would be able to handle Doflamingo, good idea.