[Theory] Gekko Moriah

[Kakashobito]

Just one little thing I'd like to point out, they talk about how Moriah dissappeared, but when someone is turned into a toy they don't remember that person even existed in the first place u-u

u say the same thing as me. but ur english is better . thats what i mean with why his theory is wrong.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

this is where you are wrong. if he would be a toy they would not even talk about him or remember him. it would be like he has never existed like Kyros. he even got forgetten by his daughter etc. but they remember moriah.

Just one little thing I'd like to point out, they talk about how Moriah dissappeared, but when someone is turned into a toy they don't remember that person even existed in the first place u-u

u say the same thing as me. but ur english is better . thats what i mean with why his theory is wrong.

Guys. I realise it's a slight flaw. However, answer this:

Does anybody actually remember Moriah since the time skip?

The answer:

No. Not even Doflamingo. Nobody bats an eye, it's possible he was this toy, and is now in hiding somewhere. Everybody thinks he has disappeared.

Who said he had to be turned into a toy by the time the meeting took place?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

At the end of the day the Kage Kage no Mi hasn't got the ability to disappear. An alternative explanation is Absalom made him invisible.

Try using your imagination and reading more thoroughly.

 

[Kakashobito]

Guys. I realise it's a slight flaw. However, answer this:


The answer:
Who said he had to be turned into a toy by the time the meeting took place?


Try using your imagination and reading more thoroughly.

Ok now give me a proof that no one remembers Gekko Moriah. How can you conclude that? Because he isnt mentioned in the Manga?

U contradict yourself. IF he disappeard and got invisible that wouldnt mean that Doflamingo would not remember him but thats what you say. And IF he was a toy he couldnt have been invisible.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Ok now give me a proof that no one remembers Gekko Moriah. How can you conclude that? Because he isnt mentioned in the Manga?
Jinbe never mentions him when he talks about him and Crocodile leaving the Shichibukai when Moriah also left -> this was post timeskip

U contradict yourself. IF he disappeard and got invisible that wouldnt mean that Doflamingo would not remember him but thats what you say. And IF he was a toy he couldnt have been invisible.

No. You've misunderstood. He was either a toy or he was invisible. Not both at once. That's what alternative means.

 

[Kakashobito]

No. You've misunderstood. He was either a toy or he was invisible. Not both at once. That's what alternative means.

look you say that no one remembers him right? not even doflamingo? yes thats what you say like its a fact.
so how can it be an alternative? they wouldnt forget an invisible doflamingo.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

look you say that no one remembers him right? not even doflamingo? yes thats what you say like its a fact.
so how can it be an alternative? they wouldnt forget an invisible doflamingo.

I'm saying that only one or the other has occurred. There is evidence to support the idea of him being turned into a toy. However, because it's inconclusive and not entirely convincing there is a chance of a second option: this being that he is turned invisible. It is one or the other.

 

[Kakashobito]

I'm saying that only one or the other has occurred. There is evidence to support the idea of him being turned into a toy. However, because it's inconclusive and not entirely convincing there is a chance of a second option: this being that he is turned invisible. It is one or the other.

u dont get what i mean and dont answer my question. what i mean is that your "alternative" cant be an alternative because you said yourself that everyone forgot about Moriah. What i say is that they would not forget about him if he was invisible.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

u dont get what i mean and dont answer my question. what i mean is that your "alternative" cant be an alternative because you said yourself that everyone forgot about Moriah. What i say is that they would not forget about him if he was invisible.

And I said the evidence for forgetting Moriah isn't entirely convincing. Therefore don't assume it's 100% inexorable. The alternative means neither happens at once. If he's invisible. He's not a f*cking toy. He is therefore still in peoples memories. If he's a toy, he's not f*cking invisible. Okay?

You must be registered for see images

 

[Caliburn]

So, at some point during the Dressrosa arc everybody started going crazy about Gekko Moriah returning. And now everything seems to have been too quiet for a while.

After the recent reveal of G4 I'm certain he will be involved in taking down Kaido in some form or another, and here's why:

1. Look at this toy:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And look at Moriah:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Does anybody actually remember Moriah since the time skip? No. Not even Doflamingo. Nobody bats an eye, it's possible he was this toy, and is now in hiding somewhere. Everybody thinks he has disappeared.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

At the end of the day the Kage Kage no Mi hasn't got the ability to disappear. An alternative explanation is Absalom made him invisible.

2. Remember Moriah's grudge against Kaido for killing his men in the New World when Moriah first got there?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I doubt he would miss an opportunity to enact vengeance of some kind on Kaido

3. We all know that G4 was revealed in chapter 784, and announced in 783, it's also interesting to note that G2 was announced in chapter 387, and Nightmare Luffy was first seen in 487.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Nightmare Luffy's likeness to G4 and the fact the colourspread of chapter 784 is full of zombies gives me reason to believe that Moriah will be deeply involved in the story very shortly

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Notice the number on the gravestone is "944", Gekko Moriah was introduced in chapter 449

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spread the word: Moriah is coming back

Anyone else feel the same?

Can't really remember there was a point people went wild over Moria during the Dressrosa arc, can't imagine either as why.

Either way that Moria is going to pop up sooner or later was already pretty much a given as why bother mentioning something peculiar happened to him when DD tried to kill him? Makes no sense unless Oda wants to make him appear again one way or another.

1) Ever since it was explained how the toys are made, I actually have been bugged by the fact that they rarely resemble their original (human) forms. So that there is one that appears like a toy-Moria, isn't that much of a convincing argument as it might seem.

Also how many characters have not been mentioned for a while now? Does that all mean they are toys? So that's not argument to say he has been forgotten and the pages you posted prove that at that point he was not a toy. When you get transformed into a toy, everyone forgets about your existence. If Moria was a toy at that point then how could they have been talking about him? They would have forgotten everything about him. Moria never existed. Ironically enough him 'disappearing' proves he 'existed' at that point in time. Whatever happened to him during the time-skip, no one can say. Also Perona and Mihawk were talking about Moria after the war about an article that said Moria died and Mihawk questioning the validity of the article. So if Moria became a toy, it was after all of that.

3) You are focusing way too much on numbers. You can say anything with numbers and it's especially easily to start convincing yourself that it can't be a coincidence. I mean why are there no numerical references for instance to the chapter where he used Gear 3rd for the 1st time but there are for Gear 2nd? Again it's easy to see in numbers what you want to see because you convince yourself such things can't be a coincidence, but they most of the time very well are. You say the gravestone number says it all. Then why doesn't it say 449? Why bother changing the number to 944? To throw us out of the loop? If he wanted it to refer to Moria, he could have just written 449 because as said it's just a number. There is really no reason to change it.

Same thing with the color spread. Oda makes like every 3-4 chapters a new color spread using the most diverse themes. As far as I know they never meant anything in particular, so why would this now be the case?

And same thing with Nightmare Luffy. Yes they resemble each other a bit, but seriously why would Oda give an intentional permanent connection between Gear 4th and Moria/Nightmare Luffy =/ This my own personal opinion, but I'm quite confident in that Oda based the appearance of Gear 4th on the traditional Japanese style of painting demons and gods and that there was no intention whatsoever to make a connection with Nightmare Luffy. This is one of my favourite color spreads:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Oda drew it in that traditional Japanese style I just mentioned, which was most frequently used to depict mythological scenes with gods and demons and such. Now if you look at Luffy's face there and compare it to his face in the lower right corner:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And then this pose:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

It's one that's also very common in Japanese traditions. I'm not an expert on Japanese traditions and their meanings, but I've read a lot of manga and that pose is something that often appears. Kumadori of CP9 was continuously posing like that and he also had face paint. Then you had Enel's final attack:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Same pose again and that pose was often used to depict certain gods, like Rajin and Fujin for example and the first is also who Enel is representing in his final attack. They also always have some kind of weird scarf coiling around the air around them. You can see that with Enel and with Luffy the smoke he emits also seems to be doing the same.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So yeah I'm going for that Oda based Gear 4th on Japanese mythology and not Nightmare Luffy. They just both have huge muscles and some black around their eyes. In the case of NL those are signs of insomnia, after all the theme was horror, NIGHTMARE Luffy. He had to look crazy. In the case of Gear 4th the black simply represents the traditional face paint, something that was frequently used in Japan.


But above all since when did Moria become such a special character that Oda needs to make a color spread, hidden numerical hints and make a Gear just to imply that Moria is going to make an appearance again? If you think about this rationally that doesn't make any sense because even if you skip all of what you said, there were already reasons enough to assume Moria would make an appearance sooner or later. As said before if Oda wanted him gone, no point in mentioning that he escaped DD and we know that he still uses Absalom as an active character, so why throwing all that other stuff out for someone like Moria? You can use that toy look-a-like to say he might have become a toy during the time-skip, but most other things can easily seen as just subjective interpretations.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Can't really remember there was a point people went wild over Moria during the Dressrosa arc, can't imagine either as why.

Either way that Moria is going to pop up sooner or later was already pretty much a given as why bother mentioning something peculiar happened to him when DD tried to kill him? Makes no sense unless Oda wants to make him appear again one way or another.

1) Ever since it was explained how the toys are made, I actually have been bugged by the fact that they rarely resemble their original (human) forms. So that there is one that appears like a toy-Moria, isn't that much of a convincing argument as it might seem.

Also how many characters have not been mentioned for a while now? Does that all mean they are toys? So that's not argument to say he has been forgotten and the pages you posted prove that at that point he was not a toy. When you get transformed into a toy, everyone forgets about your existence. If Moria was a toy at that point then how could they have been talking about him? They would have forgotten everything about him. Moria never existed. Ironically enough him 'disappearing' proves he 'existed' at that point in time. Whatever happened to him during the time-skip, no one can say. Also Perona and Mihawk were talking about Moria after the war about an article that said Moria died and Mihawk questioning the validity of the article. So if Moria became a toy, it was after all of that.

3) You are focusing way too much on numbers. You can say anything with numbers and it's especially easily to start convincing yourself that it can't be a coincidence. I mean why are there no numerical references for instance to the chapter where he used Gear 3rd for the 1st time but there are for Gear 2nd? Again it's easy to see in numbers what you want to see because you convince yourself such things can't be a coincidence, but they most of the time very well are. You say the gravestone number says it all. Then why doesn't it say 449? Why bother changing the number to 944? To throw us out of the loop? If he wanted it to refer to Moria, he could have just written 449 because as said it's just a number. There is really no reason to change it.

Same thing with the color spread. Oda makes like every 3-4 chapters a new color spread using the most diverse themes. As far as I know they never meant anything in particular, so why would this now be the case?

And same thing with Nightmare Luffy. Yes they resemble each other a bit, but seriously why would Oda give an intentional permanent connection between Gear 4th and Moria/Nightmare Luffy =/ This my own personal opinion, but I'm quite confident in that Oda based the appearance of Gear 4th on the traditional Japanese style of painting demons and gods and that there was no intention whatsoever to make a connection with Nightmare Luffy. This is one of my favourite color spreads:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Oda drew it in that traditional Japanese style I just mentioned, which was most frequently used to depict mythological scenes with gods and demons and such. Now if you look at Luffy's face there and compare it to his face in the lower right corner:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And then this pose:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

It's one that's also very common in Japanese traditions. I'm not an expert on Japanese traditions and their meanings, but I've read a lot of manga and that pose is something that often appears. Kumadori of CP9 was continuously posing like that and he also had face paint. Then you had Enel's final attack:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Same pose again and that pose was often used to depict certain gods, like Rajin and Fujin for example and the first is also who Enel is representing in his final attack. They also always have some kind of weird scarf coiling around the air around them. You can see that with Enel and with Luffy the smoke he emits also seems to be doing the same.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

So yeah I'm going for that Oda based Gear 4th on Japanese mythology and not Nightmare Luffy. They just both have huge muscles and some black around their eyes. In the case of NL those are signs of insomnia, after all the theme was horror, NIGHTMARE Luffy. He had to look crazy. In the case of Gear 4th the black simply represents the traditional face paint, something that was frequently used in Japan.


But above all since when did Moria become such a special character that Oda needs to make a color spread, hidden numerical hints and make a Gear just to imply that Moria is going to make an appearance again? If you think about this rationally that doesn't make any sense because even if you skip all of what you said, there were already reasons enough to assume Moria would make an appearance sooner or later. As said before if Oda wanted him gone, no point in mentioning that he escaped DD and we know that he still uses Absalom as an active character, so why throwing all that other stuff out for someone like Moria? You can use that toy look-a-like to say he might have become a toy during the time-skip, but most other things can easily seen as just subjective interpretations.

You bring up some good points

But you can't deny this numbers thing as a coincidence. If he used reversed numbers for G4 > G2's announcement and G4 > Nightmare Luffy's first appearance then what's stopping him for "coincidentally" doing the same for Moriah?

The Zombies are also clear foreshadowing. Let's be honest, how are they not? They look Moriahs Zombies (stitches, designs (especially the cat) etc.), as well as the couple dancing in the background (like Moriah's....)

Infront of the gravestone I focused on is another, with the month "december" on there. That is also the month in which Moriah is defeated by Luffy going by publishing dates. Is that also "just a coincidence"?

Oda may well have based Nightmare Luffy and G4 on Mythological figures, but they do look very similar in terms of size and mass as well as eye markings and proportions. The fact they're based on mythology doesn't make them any less linked. "You've convinced yourself" that the numbers aren't a coincidence.

 

[chopstickchakra]

So, at some point during the Dressrosa arc everybody started going crazy about Gekko Moriah returning. And now everything seems to have been too quiet for a while.

After the recent reveal of G4 I'm certain he will be involved in taking down Kaido in some form or another, and here's why:

1. Look at this toy:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And look at Moriah:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Does anybody actually remember Moriah since the time skip? No. Not even Doflamingo. Nobody bats an eye, it's possible he was this toy, and is now in hiding somewhere. Everybody thinks he has disappeared.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

At the end of the day the Kage Kage no Mi hasn't got the ability to disappear. An alternative explanation is Absalom made him invisible.

2. Remember Moriah's grudge against Kaido for killing his men in the New World when Moriah first got there?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I doubt he would miss an opportunity to enact vengeance of some kind on Kaido

3. We all know that G4 was revealed in chapter 784, and announced in 783, it's also interesting to note that G2 was announced in chapter 387, and Nightmare Luffy was first seen in 487.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Nightmare Luffy's likeness to G4 and the fact the colourspread of chapter 784 is full of zombies gives me reason to believe that Moriah will be deeply involved in the story very shortly

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Notice the number on the gravestone is "944", Gekko Moriah was introduced in chapter 449

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spread the word: Moriah is coming back

Anyone else feel the same?

Everything sounds good except two things. No other toy that I can recall looks like there real life self, why would Moriah's be almost an exact copy? Also Doflamingo says outright the Kage Kage no Mi had the power to make Moriah "disappear", if he was turned into a toy then Doffy wouldn't have been able to say that because he wouldn't remember him and neither would the government guy. Moriah could have used the Kage Kage no Mi to live in shadows, which is why he's "disappeared".

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Everything sounds good except two things. No other toy that I can recall looks like there real life self, why would Moriah's be almost an exact copy? Also Doflamingo says outright the Kage Kage no Mi had the power to make Moriah "disappear", if he was turned into a toy then Doffy wouldn't have been able to say that because he wouldn't remember him and neither would the government guy. Moriah could have used the Kage Kage no Mi to live in shadows, which is why he's "disappeared".

Which is why I said it's equally possible that Absalom helped him hide by making him invisible

 

[Caliburn]

You bring up some good points

But you can't deny this numbers thing as a coincidence. If he used reversed numbers for G4 > G2's announcement and G4 > Nightmare Luffy's first appearance then what's stopping him for "coincidentally" doing the same for Moriah?

The Zombies are also clear foreshadowing. Let's be honest, how are they not? They look Moriahs Zombies (stitches, designs (especially the cat) etc.), as well as the couple dancing in the background (like Moriah's....)

Infront of the gravestone I focused on is another, with the month "december" on there. That is also the month in which Moriah is defeated by Luffy going by publishing dates. Is that also "just a coincidence"?

Oda may well have based Nightmare Luffy and G4 on Mythological figures, but they do look very similar in terms of size and mass as well as eye markings and proportions. The fact they're based on mythology doesn't make them any less linked. "You've convinced yourself" that the numbers aren't a coincidence.

Yes I can deny and I will deny them firmly because as I said before you can say EVERYTHING with numbers. All numbers in existence are made out of the combinations of the same 10 numbers. As a result it's extremely easy to start seeing in them the things you want to see simply because you make yourself believe it can't be a coincidence, while in reality it can very easily be a coincidence. From a neutral objective point of view they don't have to mean anything in particular.

What you say comes down to this: in a color spread, which so far as I know never had any particular meanings, there is a number written that if you rearrange the order of the numbers, you get the number of the chapter where Moria was first seen, but only a shadow. The reality is that Moria got introduced in chapter 448, not 449. In 449 he was simply first seen, but only as a shadow. Chapter 448 is the first time he got mentioned, his name is also the chapter title and it would still take a few more chapters before we would see how he exactly looks.

I mean if I do the same and rearrange the numbers I get chapter 644. I mean why says that's a nine and not a six upside down? Then we get the chapter "To Zero", which I interpret as Oda making a reference to Fishman Island where the prince claimed to start anew in that chapter, which symbolizes that Luffy in this chapter also started anew. Despite this already being the 3rd arc after the time-skip, so far Luffy never really had to go all-out. It also seemed he kinda cruised through his entire training with Rayleigh. This is actually the first chapter where Luffy shows how dreadfully that training actually was; he pretty much said that he had to become stronger to fight all those big monsters or he would not have made it. The Luffy of this chapter is actually the most genuine post time-skip Luffy we have seen so far, so I see that grave as a symbol of pre time-skip Luffy being officially 'dead' and that it's now the era of post time-skip Luffy.

This is the reality of the situation. You see things in numbers by changing the order of the numbers, then you see something that in that chapter that Gear got introduced and in that chapter it got used for the first time and that in other chapters another Gear got mentioned and used, but for some reason another Gear is left completely out of the loop. Then in that chapter Moria gets first seen as a shadow, which means something, but the chapters he first got mentioned and really seen do not mean anything. This is chaos, not structured or logical. The human mind wants to see structure and doesn't like coincidences. As a result it automatically tries to see structure in everything and it makes you believe that such a structure can't be a coincidence and thus needs to have some kind of meaning. In truth it doesn't have to mean anything. The things you said about the numbers and the chapters do not sound so logical if you broaden your vision. You are being very selective and then start giving the interpretation that suit what you want to see.

You can pull that off for one small thing, but at this point all this supposed references are full of holes and irregularities.


They are zombies. Oda drew all of them, so of course they would look a like. It would have been really odd if they would have looked different. So because Oda used the same drawing style he always uses, it means something? Oda made countless of color spreads using a large variety of themes and I can't remember a single one of them that pointed towards anything in particular. So why would this one and why the hell for Moria of all characters?

Coincidence? You mean the month the chapter got published? Or the month the volume was released? Or the months the chapter/volume was released where DD supposedly 'killed' Moria? And the date I found for the release of that chapter was 17 december, still it says december 20 on the grave.

And no the entire Thriller Bark arc was based on western horror. This is something Oda himself explained where he got inspiration from series like the Adam's Family and Into Shadows. And then he suddenly he is going to base Nightmare Luffy on an ancient Japanese deity? Yeah no. The only thing is that both of them have large muscles and both of them have something around their eyes, but considering the theme of Thriller Bark, there isn't much doubt it was meant to give Luffy a really nightmarish look and that those circles are bags under his eyes to make it look like he's mad. The circles around Luffy's Gear 4th also give a very different expression. That also brings me again what was my final point: since when did Moria become so important that Luffy's Gear 4th would be connected with him?

You have indeed convinced yourself that those numbers are not a coincidence, but in reality you are being very selective in using and interpreting them.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Yes I can deny and I will deny them firmly because as I said before you can say EVERYTHING with numbers. All numbers in existence are made out of the combinations of the same 10 numbers. As a result it's extremely easy to start seeing in them the things you want to see simply because you make yourself believe it can't be a coincidence, while in reality it can very easily be a coincidence. From a neutral objective point of view they don't have to mean anything in particular.

What you say comes down to this: in a color spread, which so far as I know never had any particular meanings, there is a number written that if you rearrange the order of the numbers, you get the number of the chapter where Moria was first seen, but only a shadow. The reality is that Moria got introduced in chapter 448, not 449. In 449 he was simply first seen, but only as a shadow. Chapter 448 is the first time he got mentioned, his name is also the chapter title and it would still take a few more chapters before we would see how he exactly looks.

I mean if I do the same and rearrange the numbers I get chapter 644. I mean why says that's a nine and not a six upside down? Then we get the chapter "To Zero", which I interpret as Oda making a reference to Fishman Island where the prince claimed to start anew in that chapter, which symbolizes that Luffy in this chapter also started anew. Despite this already being the 3rd arc after the time-skip, so far Luffy never really had to go all-out. It also seemed he kinda cruised through his entire training with Rayleigh. This is actually the first chapter where Luffy shows how dreadfully that training actually was; he pretty much said that he had to become stronger to fight all those big monsters or he would not have made it. The Luffy of this chapter is actually the most genuine post time-skip Luffy we have seen so far, so I see that grave as a symbol of pre time-skip Luffy being officially 'dead' and that it's now the era of post time-skip Luffy.

This is the reality of the situation. You see things in numbers by changing the order of the numbers, then you see something that in that chapter that Gear got introduced and in that chapter it got used for the first time and that in other chapters another Gear got mentioned and used, but for some reason another Gear is left completely out of the loop. Then in that chapter Moria gets first seen as a shadow, which means something, but the chapters he first got mentioned and really seen do not mean anything. This is chaos, not structured or logical. The human mind wants to see structure and doesn't like coincidences. As a result it automatically tries to see structure in everything and it makes you believe that such a structure can't be a coincidence and thus needs to have some kind of meaning. In truth it doesn't have to mean anything. The things you said about the numbers and the chapters do not sound so logical if you broaden your vision. You are being very selective and then start giving the interpretation that suit what you want to see.

You can pull that off for one small thing, but at this point all this supposed references are full of holes and irregularities.


They are zombies. Oda drew all of them, so of course they would look a like. It would have been really odd if they would have looked different. So because Oda used the same drawing style he always uses, it means something? Oda made countless of color spreads using a large variety of themes and I can't remember a single one of them that pointed towards anything in particular. So why would this one and why the hell for Moria of all characters?

Coincidence? You mean the month the chapter got published? Or the month the volume was released? Or the months the chapter/volume was released where DD supposedly 'killed' Moria? And the date I found for the release of that chapter was 17 december, still it says december 20 on the grave.

And no the entire Thriller Bark arc was based on western horror. This is something Oda himself explained where he got inspiration from series like the Adam's Family and Into Shadows. And then he suddenly he is going to base Nightmare Luffy on an ancient Japanese deity? Yeah no. The only thing is that both of them have large muscles and both of them have something around their eyes, but considering the theme of Thriller Bark, there isn't much doubt it was meant to give Luffy a really nightmarish look and that those circles are bags under his eyes to make it look like he's mad. The circles around Luffy's Gear 4th also give a very different expression. That also brings me again what was my final point: since when did Moria become so important that Luffy's Gear 4th would be connected with him?

You have indeed convinced yourself that those numbers are not a coincidence, but in reality you are being very selective in using and interpreting them.

Dat useless wall of text though. Achieves nothing. Creates boredom. Classic.

If you can say anything with numbers then the same applies to you. You cannot yourself be exempt from your own logic. Unless of course your logic is wrong as I've been inferring.

Being mentioned is not the same as being formally introduced. As we had no visuals of him during chapter 448, but we did during 449. He first speaks in 449, he first breathes in 449. He first laughs in... you guessed it; 449. He was first introduced in 449. Using your logic that's like saying Jinbe was introduced in chapter 69, instead of chapter 528. You know this to be true.

You can claim the numbers don't mean anything. But it's clear to those without a narrowminded malcontent approach to reading that the numbers are linked. Oda is perfectly capable of creating these "coincidences" you keep ranting on about.

 

[ichirou]

Nice theory, but considering the fact that it was ages ago that sugar fainted and had released all she made into toys for 10 years IDK what moria has been doing all this time. He should have been here already fighting doffy. Maybe hes still with burgess?