7th Gate Gai vs Ay and B

[Killua Zoldyck]

Lol I wonder why we're discussing this:

Irrelevant in that case.

Like I said, polish up your reading comprehension. I said that Gai PAUSES when using Hirudora and Ei can evade in that time (especially if its fired from CQC, Ei wouldn't even be caught in the AoE). I then predicted KidGamer would say something along the lines of Gai could form the seal and then get close and blast Ei and said he has not done that once yet (and he has fired it 3 times) so there is no reason he can do it here.

Understand? Good, move on.

Stop dude just stop..This comparison is horrible. Gai is a master in terms of weaponry like the DB state. You're here arguing that with his body enhancements which is different to Kakashi's case due to him not having something to cover up

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(Top left) .."It's incomplete because of the Sharingan" There's the fact that Raikiri is a linear attack as well.

MORE SPEED = LESS CONTROL.

Its not something hard to comprehend, or rather it shouldn't be. You think someone who has mastered driving a stock Honda Civic SI will be capable of driving a fully engine upgraded turbo'd Honda Civic SI? In case you don't know what that is, let me put it in other words. Do you think a driver who mastered a slow car will be just as good in a race car? The answer is no, in fact, odds are he is going to crash into the nearest building the second he steps on the gas pedle because he underestimated its acceleration. You are assuming that the drive would in fact be able to handle the race car as well as the slow one by saying that Gai can use the Nunchuks in 7th Gate well. ITS RIDICULOUS.

How that compares to Gai's case who doesn't even need such is ridiculous....@Bold Perhaps because he has powerful attacks. What kind of question is this Lmao. Perhaps because his Base form was enough as shown against Obito. Perhaps because against Kisame he resorted to his powerful attack right off the bat when he opened the gates.

Was it really? Had he used gates he would have actually landed a hit, considering how extremely close he was to doing it in base. Btw, this he did not show it because he did not need to excuse is terrible, if everyone where throwing that excuse around it would be impossible to debate. If you want me to give you examples to show everyone just how flawed that line of thinking is I can, but I think you are smart enough to understand such a thing yourself.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Too bad i can't continue the discussion properly but what you said here is really interesting eventhough i disagree with the rest of your post. Lee who studies under the same discipline as Gai also said his eyes couldn't up keep up while running at chidori Sasuke lvl of speed when he could open 5gates and be even fasrmter. That alone shows the difference between running, striking and reaction speed(in hand with eye coordination) that you mentioned a little eventhough contradicting yourself and i don't think using Minato as an example is great considering he can easily have been born with speed of synapses going that fast just like how no one can be born with the same amount of IQ

Typing on a phone, so there can be mistake here and there and i'm not sure if we could continue this discussion anytime soon but we will see anyway

You're comparing 12 year old Lee to Gai is where you're making your biggest mistake in that paragraph. The gap between 12 year old Lee and Gai is ridiculous, and even Lee with 3 more years of extreme training and a more fit body could still only reach the 6th Gate.

Madara's statement of Gai being the greatest taijutsu user ever is not to be taken lightly. It's fact, and 12 year old Lee being compared to him in any regard is honestly a bit of a slap in the face.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Gai wins both scenes. Ill explain if need be.​

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

You're comparing 12 year old Lee to Gai is where you're making your biggest mistake in that paragraph. The gap between 12 year old Lee and Gai is ridiculous, and even Lee with 3 more years of extreme training and a more fit body could still only reach the 6th Gate.

Madara's statement of Gai being the greatest taijutsu user ever is not to be taken lightly. It's fact, and 12 year old Lee being compared to him in any regard is honestly a bit of a slap in the face.

It doesn't matter who it is. Its physically impossible to have the same level of control over something when going at speeds that far exceed your physical limit as the control over the same object at normal speeds. This is a principle you guys have to understand before claiming something like Gai can use nunchuks just as masterfully at the 7th gate as base, or even that well at all.

 

[Draegod]

B heal from AT? Nah...He'll be dead given V3 Susanoo>>V2 Jins in terms durability Not to mention Samehada would be in its range so it gets caught up and can't heal.

Ay can't dodge AT from close range(CQC) considering JJ Madara was forced to block rather than evade...It was fast enough to catch him off guard....Gai's repeated blows in the 7th would prove troublesome to B though.

What is AT? Is that morning Peacock or A Tiger? If M Peacock its laughed at seeing as its only Fire damage essentially and that isn't besting V1 let alone V2 cloak! Sama has suffer worse and has survived and as long as he is with in contact with bee they start healing instantly, so it would heal as the damage is being dealt thus resulting in lesser damage. And as seen in the manga when Bee is in V2 he is essentially

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with Sama under the cloak so he isnta heals off bat while in V2.

Aye in V2 dodged (instant) no diff last second, Guy's Hindura isn't close to instant in the slightest!!! Madara didnt block the Tiger,

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no diff seeing as the attack had no affect any way and wasn't even going to scratch Madara let alone beat him. Guy's blows will not at all be a problem for Bee in the slightest seeing as 6 gate had no affect on V2 and 7th gate out side of Afternoon tiger will not do that much better. V2 Survived Chibaku tensei before having to transform to over power it, Took it's own TBB, Lightning Blade etc etc.

He said "You're able to guard yourself even against my speed"

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Never stated Top/Max speed so what's your point? Then there is the fact his "V2" lightning armor and hair is not shown. Madara barely managed to Defend against V1 speed Aye, not the Ama' dodging Aye.

- He won't be complaining about having to up his speed if he knew he could get through Madara.

It's called testing your opponent first. Otherwise he would had Ligerbombed him from behind while he was mid air (attemted with his best move). But seeing as he doesn't know the legendary Madara's limits why risk and get killed.

- Onoki wouldn't have to lighten him in the first place if (his speed was enough) and then having to make him stronger at the point of attack...That implies his usual speed wasn't fast enough.

Onoki making him lighter only means they didn't want to take any chances since Susanoo was out and they still never knew the limits. He never once asked onoki, "hey i want to be faster, make me lighter" it was Onoki who came with a plan which was to be lighter and move faster and then make Raikage stronger at the point of attack. A 2 card Combo with Meis help. It was literally team work and a plan.

He then said he had to up it to get around Madara's guard. He won't be saying that if he could would he? He won't be complaining about having to up it.

SUSANOO Bro. lol It is literally 360, and Sasuke was protected with a aweaker susanoo despite Aye's V2 speed. So i'm sill not seeing a problem with him making that comment when Susanoo was literally up and he cannot breach it alone.

Onoki won't need to lighten his speed if he already had the speed to get past Madara...He couldn't. Gai's foot speed is able to surprise Madara...Something Minato's teleportation didn't do. It's indeed arguable between them with Gai recent feat putting him above.

- Minato used striking speed, not movement speed so bad example to use this particular time.
- Onoki came with a plan to breach and surprise madara (it worked). Aye for a fact cannot Breach Susanoo alone, but with teh added power of Weighted rock tech he could and did. But to use "weighted rock tech" he needed Onoki correct? Onoki had to keep up, but ofc he had to literally be on his back. SO why not use lighted rock tech to make him faster, then weighted rock to make him stronger? You get it?

Also, Gai held AT back...I don't know what happened in Kisame's case but I know he held back. How he did it is unknown but seeing how the aim was to take him back for Intel, he did so. There's also the fact that the one against Madara was much larger than a Bijuu still and he was at his limit when he used that.

He didnt held it back with kisame it was rather it had to pierce Dense water to reach Kisame resulting in the size reduction each inch it got closer to kisame. With Madara it was full fledged Tiger on Susanoo. lol And How was it larger then a Bijuu bro?

Gai uses AT, EE twice or possibly more, NM and yet 2 AT is his limit? Nope.

I wouldn't count EE and Night Gai as a limit check seeing as when the 8th gate was open new unused power was now available. As in a "new Life" with more powers to use. Not saying To AT is is limit, but after one or during one, the otehr will indeed blitz his blind spot for a OHKO blow! Neither one will be waiting and watching the other get blown back.

 

[EliteKakashi]

It doesn't matter who it is. Its physically impossible to have the same level of control over something when going at speeds that far exceed your physical limit as the control over the same object at normal speeds. This is a principle you guys have to understand before claiming something like Gai can use nunchuks just as masterfully at the 7th gate as base, or even that well at all.

>"Physically impossible"
>Talking about Naruto

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Gai has already proven he has the body control to do whatever the **** he wants to do in gates. He reacted to a juubi jin in those gates. Which requires eye speed/hand-eye coordination far beyond handling some damn nunchucks.

The fact that you're arguing this is dumbfounding, to be honest.

 

[Draegod]

>"Physically impossible"
>Talking about Naruto

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Gai has already proven he has the body control to do whatever the **** he wants to do in gates. He reacted to a juubi jin in those gates. Which requires eye speed/hand-eye coordination far beyond handling some damn nunchucks.

The fact that you're arguing this is dumbfounding, to be honest.

Don't know the argument, but.. Just because Gai himself can move at God speed and survive (body, lungs etc) doesn't mean an object not meant for top speeds can. The object still has to go against air friction and the force of gai's hands holding it tightly since he would have to or it would stay in place or slow him down. To simplify it even more; The nunchucks would either burst in flames or wither to nothing or tear itself apart from not being meant for top speeds or having the ability to go against friction so to speak.

 

[KingHashirama]

Wrong. If he could've counterattacked, evading wouldn't be needed. He would've done what he did to Minato. That simple.

Ahh so we are going with this excuse to justify Kishimoto's bad writing in the fight. Alright, he couldn't blitz them either , because he would've done so no? He probably couldn't use mokuton or the shields(despite the fact he used them against 8th gate gai) because he would've done so no? Please stop trying to justify a badly written fight, that was inconsistant with the character's power. And clinging to that fight to try to prove your point is not going to help.

Shunshin was never my main focus. My main focus is, Gai and Minato both engaged Juubi Jins, but both times Minato lost his arm before he could teleport to safety, even more so in the Juubito conflict considering he clashed with him, while Gai charged Madara and pushed him back instead of Madara cutting him down like he did. That shows that Gai trumps in reaction and striking speed.

Because both times he was on the offense and couldn't teleport. 2 different scenarios.. Had Madara chose to blitz Gai, he wouldn't be able to do anything either.. hes not faster than the Juubi's jinchuriki's speed. Gai is neither as fast as Minato's shunshin. Same result would've happened to Gai that happened to Minato both of those 2 times, had Madara simply swung his staff instead of scooting back. Gai has never shown reaction speeds superior to Minato.. he didn't avoid Madara's blitz.. lol.

Your "inconsistency" point has nothing but your beliefs behind it. I don't care for your beliefs. I care for hard evidence. Gai only used 5th and 6th Gate in the War, and one Hirudora. He never used the 7G in a full scale clash until JJ Madara. So that point falls flat on it's face too.

Uhh Hirudora requires the 7th gate.... and when he was fighting Edo Madara, he was in the 7th gate.. displayed no such feat. Did he decide to go easy on Edo Madara, and thought everything would be fine? lol

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

>"Physically impossible"
>Talking about Naruto

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Gai has already proven he has the body control to do whatever the **** he wants to do in gates. He reacted to a juubi jin in those gates. Which requires eye speed/hand-eye coordination far beyond handling some damn nunchucks.

The fact that you're arguing this is dumbfounding, to be honest.

The explanation behind the Gates (the thing you guys are arguing) themselves proves that there are such things as physical limitations inofitself so I don't know what on earth you're on about. He's shown that he can control his basic arm/leg movement fairly well, which is the most basic thing you can possibly control. How on earth you guys think that's even close to the same thing as actually maneuvering a pair of nunchuks at those speeds baffles me. But of course, lets throw away even the most fundemental logic because its Naruto right? Despite the fact that Naruto has shown pretty strict limitations when it comes to things like speed/strength/durability.

Let me sum up this argument in a nutshell:

Gai is amazing with nunchuks after exceeding his physical limitations ten times over because this is Gai and Naruto does not follow logic.

Right? Or is there something I missed?

 

[EliteKakashi]

Don't know the argument, but.. Just because Gai himself can move at God speed and survive (body, lungs etc) doesn't mean an object not meant for top speeds can. The object still has to go against air friction and the force of gai's hands holding it tightly since he would have to or it would stay in place or slow him down. To simplify it even more; The nunchucks would either burst in flames or wither to nothing or tear itself apart from not being meant for top speeds or having the ability to go against friction so to speak.

Going off the argument that only the body of Gai or what have you can resist the friction caused by his speeds would mean that any clothing he's wearing and kunai pouches(especially at 8th gate speed) or what have you should completely be destroyed as well, but it's not. Naruto doesn't follow our laws.

The explanation behind the Gates (the thing you guys are arguing) themselves proves that there are such things as physical limitations inofitself so I don't know what on earth you're on about. He's shown that he can control his basic arm/leg movement fairly well, which is the most basic thing you can possibly control. How on earth you guys think that's even close to the same thing as actually maneuvering a pair of nunchuks at those speeds baffles me. But of course, lets throw away even the most fundemental logic because its Naruto right? Despite the fact that Naruto has shown pretty strict limitations when it comes to things like speed/strength/durability.

Let me sum up this argument in a nutshell:

Gai is amazing with nunchuks after exceeding his physical limitations ten times over because this is Gai and Naruto does not follow logic.

Right? Or is there something I missed?

There are physical limitations, but they're not our physical limitations. Like I explained above, and Draegod himself mentioned, going off of our laws, Gai's clothing should be destroyed. Gai's body should be destroyed too, moving at those speeds, but assuming you for some reason want to ignore the bodies taking this impact, the clothing point still holds up.

There's no point in bringing any kind of science of our world in to Naruto. It doesn't add up. It never will. Fundamental logic is most definitely thrown out of the window.

 

[Draegod]

Going off the argument that only the body of Gai or what have you can resist the friction caused by his speeds would mean that any clothing he's wearing and kunai pouches(especially at 8th gate speed) or what have you should completely be destroyed as well, but it's not. Naruto doesn't follow our laws.



There are physical limitations, but they're not our physical limitations. Like I explained above, and Draegod himself mentioned, going off of our laws, Gai's clothing should be destroyed. Gai's body should be destroyed too, moving at those speeds, but assuming you for some reason want to ignore the bodies taking this impact, the clothing point still holds up.

There's no point in bringing any kind of science of our world in to Naruto. It doesn't add up. It never will. Fundamental logic is most definitely thrown out of the window.

Naruto does follow the Anime for Kids universal Law; NO NUDITY and CLOTHES must evolve/change with said character!

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Sama has suffer worse and has survived and as long as he is with in contact with bee they start healing instantly, so it would heal as the damage is being dealt thus resulting in lesser damage. And as seen in the manga when Bee is in V2 he is essentially

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with Sama under the cloak so he isnta heals off bat while in V2.

Remember this quote, because it will be used against you next time you want to try and downplay Kisame. Anyways, just because Bee wields Samehada doesn't mean he can replicate everything Kisame did with it. Samehada never healed or replenished Bee's chakra despite his obvious dire need [

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].

Don't know the argument, but.. Just because Gai himself can move at God speed and survive (body, lungs etc) doesn't mean an object not meant for top speeds can. The object still has to go against air friction and the force of gai's hands holding it tightly since he would have to or it would stay in place or slow him down. To simplify it even more; The nunchucks would either burst in flames or wither to nothing or tear itself apart from not being meant for top speeds or having the ability to go against friction so to speak.

This would be true, but you can't apply real world logic to every aspect in this manga... All of Gai's clothes should of disintegrated, and he'd be fighting ******* naked. Obviously not the case. Same applies with his ninja pouch holding the kunais, shurikens, etc.

@ EliteKakashi, good shit G. Posts have been spot on.

On topic, 7G Gai wins both. Manga makes it clear V2 Ay isn't in his league, much less V2 Bee.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Naruto does follow the Anime for Kids universal Law; NO NUDITY and CLOTHES must evolve/change with said character!

Be that as it may, it still doesn't explain the gap in the laws. Anime in general doesn't follow logic or laws. Using it is simply foolish.

 

[Draegod]

Remember this quote, because it will be used against you next time you want to try and downplay Kisame. Anyways, just because Bee wields Samehada doesn't mean he can replicate everything Kisame did with it. Samehada never healed or replenished Bee's chakra despite his obvious dire need [

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].



This would be true, but you can't apply real world logic to every aspect in this manga... All of Gai's clothes should of disintegrated, and he'd be fighting ******* naked. Obviously not the case. Same applies with his ninja pouch holding the kunais, shurikens, etc.

@ EliteKakashi, good shit G. Posts have been spot on.

On topic, 7G Gai wins both. Manga makes it clear V2 Ay isn't in his league, much less V2 Bee.

Lmao No problem! But In that scan Bee was not at his limits it was the 8 tails. Bee was talking and walking etc etc. Was it because of Sama healing? IDK, but that scan and instance in particular either proves my case or is null and void.

 

[Killua Zoldyck]

There are physical limitations, but they're not our physical limitations. Like I explained above, and Draegod himself mentioned, going off of our laws, Gai's clothing should be destroyed. Gai's body should be destroyed too, moving at those speeds, but assuming you for some reason want to ignore the bodies taking this impact, the clothing point still holds up.

There's no point in bringing any kind of science of our world in to Naruto. It doesn't add up. It never will. Fundamental logic is most definitely thrown out of the window.

No one said they are like ours lawfor law but we have clear indications within the manga itself that this physical limitation I speak of is very much present in the manga. Whether it be the multiple examples of Raikiris use or Lee (whom is also a master Taijutsu user) and even characters like Ei (Who can't maneuver very well in V2) and Naruto, the list really does go on and on. Your response(s) to these are rather simple though, Gai is Gai. Gai is master of Taijutsu. Gai is master of Nunchuks (In base). Gai can do literally whatever the **** he wants because he has shown he can move fairly well in 7th Gate. Gai is love. Gai is life. See that doesn't sit well with me, especially with the smug comments you guys add in as if your arguments are coming from Kishimotos own mouth. You guys want proof that this specific physical limitation exists in this manga? It has been given, numerous times. You guys want to know why it also applies to Gai? Because Gai has never been said to be an exception to rules that apply to everyone else and him being called a master in his art does not act as this statement either. Thus far, the only argument you guys have been able to collectively muster up on this topic is what I have said in my previous post, is that a convincing argument to you? If it is, then I have nothing more to add.

 

[KingHashirama]

Be that as it may, it still doesn't explain the gap in the laws. Anime in general doesn't follow logic or laws. Using it is simply foolish.

uhhh each anime has its own sets of laws.. so what do you mean anime in general doesn't follow logic or laws?

 

[Draegod]

Be that as it may, it still doesn't explain the gap in the laws. Anime in general doesn't follow logic or laws. Using it is simply foolish.

But it is a fact that you never use the "cloths should be gone" argument. That is the universal agreement since we all know the cloths MUST evolve/change with the character (Hulk always where shorts even after a nuclear explosion etc etc). So basically the clothes argument is officially Null and void.

 

[EliteKakashi]

No one said they are like ours lawfor law but we have clear indications within the manga itself that this physical limitation I speak of is very much present in the manga. Whether it be the multiple examples of Raikiris use or Lee (whom is also a master Taijutsu user) and even characters like Ei (Who can't maneuver very well in V2) and Naruto, the list really does go on and on. Your response(s) to these are rather simple though, Gai is Gai. Gai is master of Taijutsu. Gai is master of Nunchuks (In base). Gai can do literally whatever the **** he wants because he has shown he can move fairly well in 7th Gate. Gai is love. Gai is life. See that doesn't sit well with me, especially with the smug comments you guys add in as if your arguments are coming from Kishimotos own mouth. You guys want proof that this specific physical limitation exists in this manga? It has been given, numerous times. You guys want to know why it also applies to Gai? Because Gai has never been said to be an exception to rules that apply to everyone else and him being called a master in his art does not act as this statement either. Thus far, the only argument you guys have been able to collectively muster up on this topic is what I have said in my previous post, is that a convincing argument to you? If it is, then I have nothing more to add.

I already agreed there's physical limitations, but we have no idea what they are, and they're clearly nothing even remotely similar to ours.

I've already debunked the raikiri argument and stated another example of how Base Minato could fight moving at speeds on the level of cloaked raikages without having any kind of performance boost. I'm not arguing that there's not physical limitations. I'm arguing that you're physical limitations are incorrect, because the manga has shown that Gai has control of himself in gates. I dunno what this "fairly well" crap is considering, again, he reacted to a juubi jin that possessed abilities that could kill Gai instantly at the slightest misstep.

Your argument relies on the fact that Kid Kakashi didn't have the hand eye coordination to pull off chidori, and that a 12 year old Lee couldn't keep up with it either. And Ei can't maneuver very well in his v2 cloak? Say what?

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Even showed the ability to stop himself on a dime:

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Before foolishly deciding to follow through with the attack.

The entire purpose of his cloak is that it makes him faster and stronger, while also improving his reaction abilities. I'm not sure where you're getting this stuff from honestly.

 

[LuckyMan]

Lets get to the point. Forget about Gai and his nun chucks, they'll most likely break on Ay and Bees body anyway or get repelled away like Sasukes katana did so they are non-factor.

I would like some concrete evidence that Gai can land AT on them both since thats all thats putting them down.

 

[EliteKakashi]

But it is a fact that you never use the "cloths should be gone" argument. That is the universal agreement since we all know the cloths MUST evolve/change with the character (Hulk always where shorts even after a nuclear explosion etc etc). So basically the clothes argument is officially Null and void.

That still doesn't explain his kunai pouch staying on moving at those speeds(the pouch isn't covering anything on his body, so it's irrelevant towards being there, and Kishimoto has shown he's willing to draw characters losing parts of their clothing, such as Kakashi losing his flak jacket and gloves while fighting Kakuzu). So what does that tell me?

Kishi doesn't give a shit if he follows any kind of laws of physics, made up by him or our own. He's inconsistent. Kakuzu's fuuton blows off Kakashi's flak jacket, Kakuzu's raiton burns off his gloves and gauze/tape/whatever he had on his arm from his training with Naruto, but Gai's pouch and his flak jacket is staying on just ignoring every logical thought in the world.

Kishi does not think of these things when writing the manga. There's no reason for us to bring them in to discussion when he doesn't even bother with them.